Coco Moco (0:00)

Did you know that the recent Victoria's Secret Fashion show broke the record for most watched live stream of any Entertainment brand in 2024 on YouTube, it received a peak viewership of 2.32 million. And in second place now it was in first is the Eurovision Talent show, which it had its peak viewership of 1.5 million earlier this year. The credit for that is stream charts. I will link it down below in the show notes if you want to do your own fact checking. And on top of that they had it streaming on other platforms like TikTok and Amazon Prime. But the premise of this episode is was the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. Do you think that they consider it a win or a loss? And the overall thesis is I want to talk about why specifically audiences hate it more than anything if a brand or creator has an identity crisis or is maybe deceptive, intentionally or not, about who they are versus someone just actually being an awful person. Like lying about who you are is worse to the Internet than being a bad person. Why is that? Where did Victoria's Secret go wrong and what can we learn from this as creators or brands ourselves? I was surprised actually when I was doing research for this episode to see the response online from media companies. New York Times wrote an article that said the Victoria's Secret Fashion show returns it shouldn't. Allure had a byline that said the 2024 Victoria's Secret Fashion show might have attempted to include plus size women. Instead it tokenized them. The great thing about opinions and marketing is that there's no right or wrong answers. I think multiple things can exist at once and I believe that the show can have criticism that is very accurate, that I agree with some of them. But I also think that it can be a success at the same time despite that criticism. So I'm going to be talking all about that in today's episode of Ahead of the Curve with Coco Moco. I'm still filming in my car if you guys are watching it on the sub stack video. If you guys want to see visuals of like some of the things that I'm referencing like photos that will be for free on my sub stack if you are a visual person like me. If not, if you just like listening to the audio on Spotify or Apple, that is totally okay too. Thank you so much as always for rating. We get a lot of ratings on Spotify and like Apple Podcasts is struggling a little bit. So if you guys are ever on Apple or you want to jump over to the Apple Podcast platform to Leave a rating. That helps me so much know what you guys like to keep going. It helps me just reach a bigger audience, have more discussions like this. So thank you guys so much though, for those of you that have been leaving ratings and even if you're not rating it, just thank you so much for listening. Thank you guys so much for being a coconut. Thank you for being here. We can continue this conversation in the substack chat if you're a paying member, if you like to talk about these things. So with all of that being said, we are going to dive on into the episode today. I was considering doing a part of this episode where I like went into the history of Victoria's Secret and me know if you guys would want that. But I think a lot of it is kind of just common knowledge. I think if you're clicking on this episode, you know enough about Victoria's Secret and you've already kind of formed your own opinions on it and you don't need me to like hold your hand and just go through everything that has already kind of happened. But I did want to talk about specifically 2018. 2018 was a very critical year for Victoria's Secret in this goodwill that they had lost with the public. And there was a couple factors that happened around this time that led to that. So I want to talk about that in the first part of this podcast. That's going to be kind of the jumping off point. I purposely went into the show this year, 2024, with a really open mind. And I personally have felt critically about Victoria's Secret in the past. And I think that it was really a pinnacle of how women felt pressured to look a certain way. And sadly, at times it feels like we are moving back towards that. Could tell that the undergarments for Victoria's Secret, not just the fashion show, but just the if you walk into a store and the advertisements, it was very much catering to like a male gaze versus other brands such as Aerie that popped up in the 2010s. They were very much catering to comfort. There wasn't a ton of online shopping or smaller brands yet. When Victoria's Secret rose to prominence in like the 90s and early 2000s. And so it did well. But because it was like the nicher you grow, the quicker you grow, like it really positioned itself as the undergarment brand. There weren't a ton of other options unless you were in like a department store, like a Sears and you wanted to buy Hanes, like you could go to Victoria's Secret in the mall, and it was the one place that you could buy fancy underwear. I think that is one of the reasons it really, really thrived. So the show was known for selling fantasy and obviously a very specific look. In fact, their chief marketing officer, Ed Razek, got them in a lot of hot water around 2018, 2019, when he told Vogue that plus size and trans models were not part of the Victoria's Secret fashion show because they could not sell fantasy. This caused so much public outrage, as it should. And I really think that at that point, Victoria's Secret was, like, on top of the world, but kind of losing some goodwill as women were starting to become more vocal about the pressures of how they're told to look. And you had brands like Aerie that weren't photoshopping photos, putting a lot of pressure on Victoria's Secret, taking that kind of younger audience from them. And so Victoria's Secret was already kind of in this pressure cooker, but there was no moment yet that, like, audiences could say, this is something that we can, like, bite onto. Like, there was nothing concrete for audiences to really bite onto to justify these very real and understandable feelings that people were collectively feeling towards the brand. Until this Vogue interview came out with Ed Razek. And that was, like, the first domino that really fell. Okay, so that was around the time that they did their last show. The ratings had plummeted so much that they just ended up not even doing a show in 2019 after the show ends. They weren't even able to really keep a low profile and, like, rebrand or recoup because they took some pretty critical hits the first couple years that they were on a hiatus from the fashion show. Number one, you have the rise of online shopping and micro trends, which were really big in 2020 when people were at home even more. And with 2020 as well, you could no longer go into public spaces. So stores that were in malls took a huge, huge hit. Victoria's Secrets branding and, like, the pink brand was kind of known as this, like, place in the mall where, like, the cool kids would hang out. Like, that's where, like, the cool girls that you looked up to, they were doing their shopping at while you were, like, across the way at the food court eating Mongolian barbecue. That was, like, where the cool girls were. And then teenagers no longer hung out at malls, and the stores in the malls really suffered. And then you had online shopping really pick up even more than it already had because of the pandemic and people not being able to go in person anymore. And Victoria's Secret just really took so many hits around that time. But what really, really, really hurt them if the first domino to fall was in 2018 was Ed Razek. The last domino to fall that really were like they were down for the count for a while would be when a new singer who was taking off on Tick Tock, her name is Jax. In 2021, she put out a song called Victoria's Secret and it was very critical of the brand. The song was inspired by a conversation that she had had with a girl that she babysat. She even recorded a flash mob Tick Tock that I believe was filmed in front of the Victoria's secret at the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. It went massively viral. And Victoria's Secret. So not only were they taking a break from the fashion show and like recouping behind closed doors, they. They were now taking critical public hits as well. And they had no platform to really, like try and change the narrative. Like they. I mean, they kind of were laying in the bed that they had made and they couldn't get out now. So I think that there was just like a shitstorm of bad things happening for this brand in the last couple of years that really lost so much good faith. They laid low for a little bit and then they announced something called the tour in 2023. I'm so shocked that everyone who's talking about the Victoria's Secret comeback online, including Victoria's Secret and the way they're branding it, why is no one talking about the show that they did last year? I know it was called the tour and it was not called the Victoria's Secret fashion Show, but to me, in my opinion, that was them trying to do a comeback. Like, was that not them trying to do a comeback? The Victoria's Secret tour, it was this extravaganza that fell flat. Like no one watched it. Maybe that's why no one's talking about it, because I don't think it really did well. When I was looking at the trailer that they posted to YouTube about this show last year, right now, a year later, the trailer is only sitting at like 500,000 views. Tour was really confusing because it was pre filmed in multiple locations. It was. There was no, like, Runway. You could tell they really were trying to do what Savage x Fenty did with those shows where it was like kind of almost like a elevated music video which made sense for Rihanna. But like Victoria's Secret tried to do their version of the Savage x Fenty show and it was not interesting at all. I don't really remember a ton of people talking about it. I couldn't tell you what one of the, like, iconic looks was from that show. I don't know that there was one. And the premiere did have some influencers such as Remy Bader and Alex Earle on the pink carpet, but apparently the way that it went down and if someone was there wants to, like, let me know, it was like they ushered them into, like, a warehouse and they just had the show that was already pre filmed and pre edited just, like, projected on the screen for them to watch while they, like, stood in this warehouse looking up at the wall. There was no, like, run live music. That's kind of what Victoria's Secret is known for. And it was none of the above. So the tour, to me was their comeback. It just didn't do well. So now they rebranded this one as, like, the comeback, which I think was smart that they went back to the basics. I think the flop of the tour last year for Victoria's Secret was the fact that Oxum's razor, right, which is the belief that the simplest answer is always the correct one. I think they tried to jump through way too many hoops. They tried to add so many different layers to the show, but if they had just gone back to the basics, that would have worked for them, the tour. Let me know if you guys remember that. I'm, like, so shocked that, no, I haven't seen one person on Tick Tock talk about the fact that the tour last year was their attempt at a comeback. All right, next topic is Victoria's Secret's identity crisis. This is going to be like a. The longest section. I was, like, just taking notes as I was going. One of the cardinal sins of the Internet is not being an awful person. That's not a cardinal sin of the Internet. The cardinal sin is lying about who you are, whether intentional or not. There is nothing that the Internet hates more than someone who lied about who they are or misled them in some way or. And yes, sometimes people get away with it. I think when you kind of present yourself as, like, a character and, like, larger than life, and you lean into the fact that maybe it's a bit that works, but there's very certain things that the Internet doesn't like and it's being lied to. I don't think Victoria's Secret ever maliciously lied about who they were or I don't think they were ever trying to be deceptive. But I do think that they began to question who they were and where they stood in a Changing society. And the Internet wants people to be for better, for worse. The Internet wants people to be very black and white. There's no nuance in the Internet, unfortunately. And they really, really want. I'm so glad my audience, you guys, I think, are different in that way. But the audience online really wants people to take a side on something and to be very vocal in that side. I made a video about Chapel Roan recently and people getting mad at her for not wanting to endorse certain candidates. And the way that I felt about that video is that the Internet says that they want authenticity. They say we really want a creator who's authentic. Right. That is not true. The audience doesn't want authenticity. They want to find people who are an extreme version of an opinion that they currently have or a version of themselves that they see. They want people to, like, be extreme versions. But then if you're an audience in your opinion changes or like public favor shifts in some way, they go after the public figure. That was the face of it in that moment. That is why I think a lot of people were upset with Chapel Roan because they feel that she has this platform. And like, I do think that she. It's important to advocate, like, I'm pro Kamala Harris, of course, But I do think that they wanted her to be very outspoken, but that wasn't authentic to her. So they didn't want authenticity. They wanted an extreme version of their current opinion. So before I get into Victoria's Secret and how they were unintentionally deceptive, confused, committing a cardinal sin. I want to give you guys some examples of this happening on the Internet. Ellen DeGeneres, she had branded herself as goofy, fun loving, a television personality with the tagline be kind for her popular talk show. I remember hearing two separate conversations behind the scenes a couple years before her cancellation where the sentiment that was expressed was never take a job at Ellen DeGeneres because of how they treat their employees. So it was not a shock to me when the buzzfeed article came out about that toxic work environment. But obviously it was a shock to the public. And she never came back from that because she literally had the tagline be kind. And so the audience wasn't even as mad that she treated her employees bad. They were mad that she lied about who she was. That was the cardinal sin. There's obviously other layers here, such as misogyny, etc, but they don't want you to lie about who you are. Compare this to some other brands and or celebrities who I think are like Kind of just like being bad people. But the audience in the Internet loves them because they're owning it. Compared to what happened with Ellen Anna Delvey, for example, the woman who committed fraud in New York City and scammed a bunch of wealthy people, went to prison, and is now kind of like an Internet sensation, she became oddly beloved in very niche corners of the Internet. Been hosting fashion shows with Kelly Catrone out of her Brooklyn apartment because she was on house arrest. She recently went on Dancing with the Stars and had an ankle monitor on. She was the subject of a popular Netflix show by Shonda Rhimes called Inventing Anna. She's had editorial spreads in magazines where these huge magazines, they will literally go to her apartment where she's on house arrest to do photo shoots with her. That is a type of celebrity that even some A list stars don't get that kind of privilege. And I think with Anna Delvey, there are some racial things that here at play that I always think about when I see her success. Am I fascinated by her? Do I think she's interesting? Do I think she's charming? And, like, I kind of enjoy seeing her online 100%. But there are racial things here at play. Okay, so if a woman of color, for example, so much has stole a pack of gum from a 7 11, she would not be rewarded with a Dancing with the Stars contract, with a magazine editorial spread. She would probably get, like, the harshest sentence possible within the judicial system. And the media and Internet, if she was even somewhat of a public figure, would use that as an excuse to go in on how awful she was and why they always hated her. Right. So the. The Anna Delvey situation is like, she is an awful person. And then there are some racial things at play, which is why she was able to skate by what she had done and remain in the good graces of the public eye. Build, like, this really niche following online. And she just owns who she is. She has more goodwill than Ellen DeGeneres. Think about that. Right? Another one would be Barstool Sports and Dave Portnoy. I'm not a fan of either for my own personal reasons. Can I respect the. Dave Portnoy works really hard and has built a really huge brand. 100, 100. But I personally think the branding, in my opinion, is, like, very objectifying of women. They're one of those media brands that, I mean, I've worked at one like this, and I hate it where they don't always post original content. They just, like, ask people that go viral that don't Know better if they can repost their videos and just tag them in the caption and that's a huge money maker for them. But like the people agreeing to let their video be reposted by Barstool or whoever, they have no idea how much money they're making. The brands are making. They're not seeing a penny of it. So Barstool sports is one of those brands. But even worse, they just kind of have this. Their branding is like, I would say it's like beer, babes and ball. Like sports hanging out with the guys, talking about women. Even the women led podcasts are very like putting other women down at times. Like I just. That's kind of the Barstool brand, right? It's not for me. And that is literally okay. I think the reason they have such a huge fan base and show no signs of slowing down. Even Taylor Swift apparently wrote Dave Portnoy letter, which is like, hello, you know what I mean? Like club. They have such a huge fan base because Dave Portnoy doesn't care if you hate him or his brand. He's like, this is who I am. He's very clear about it from the jump, what the brand stands for and even his political choices. He is self aware enough to evolve when needed, such as like being, you know, I think really expressing his support of Taylor Swift and like making his dog go viral. Like I think those were very like humanizing tactics to kind of win over a female fan base. And it worked. So I think Dave Portnoy is very self aware, but he's very unapologetic and he has more good grace than Ellen DeGeneres. Think about that. He has more good grace than Ellen DeGeneres. He doesn't care if you hate him or his decisions. And he's an example that the Internet admires that type of person more than someone who lies about who they are or is deceptive in some way or changes. Oh God forbid you're on the fence and you change who you are like based on you flip flop based on what's popular. That's a cardinal sin. So where did Victoria's Secret go wrong? Let's talk about that. I don't think Victoria's Secret ever lied about who they were or they were ever purposely deceptive. I don't even think a celebrity like Ellen ever lied or tried to be deceptive. I think the branding identity crisis happens subtly at first and then it blows up to a point of no return. Audiences hate someone who doesn't know who they are and especially if that person changed themselves in pursuit of finding their place again. Victoria's Secret noticed that there was an evolution happening with consumers, inclusion and overall societal tone. I believe that Victoria's Secret was really good at selling fantasy and they differentiated themselves from their competitors that were more comfort first lingerie brands for me and Victoria's Secret and I'm just speaking for my own opinion again, there's layers here. I can be wrong. I think the fantasy was the glittery Runway. The themes of the show, they were very. They were great showmen. Like they had the live performers. It was a live event like the Super Bowl. Like models fell and that wasn't edited out and that was okay. That was the fantasy for me was the show, the fantasticalness of it, the 15 million dollar fantasy bras. That was the fantasy to me, not always necessarily who the models were or what they looked like. Shell was at its peak in the 2010s. And I remember pictures of the models backstage in pink striped robes would very often go viral all over my Tumblr feed as a high schooler. And I wonder if the resurgence of Tumblr, not the actual website, but kind of this adjective that it's become in this aesthetic predicted by yours truly nearly two years ago, I wonder if that is also what opened the show up for good graces for a better comeback this year. I remember the peak of the shows would have performers like Taylor Swift, the weeknd, Justin Bieber, Maroon 5. They had over the top themes and huge wings. The first ever fantasy bra worn by Giselle was worth $15 million. And every year the coveted fantasy bra became a very highly anticipated moment of every show to see what model would get to wear it. Victoria's Secret and their fashion show, they were showmen in a way that differentiated themselves from their growing competitors that valued accessibility and comfortable over producing a lingerie fashion show every year. But that's what I loved about Victoria Secret. You're not going to see a Runway show maybe from a brand like Aerie or Hanes. Victoria's Secret was the only one that was doing it until Savage x Fenty. And that's what was fascinating to me. Savage x Fenty also recently stopped doing their show. And I wonder if that was also the moment where Victoria's Secret was like, okay, here's our window again. They were on top of the world. But then by the late 2000 and tens, Victoria's Secret really was struggling to evolve to the growing desire for inclusion and representation by consumers and audiences. When the CMO said that Trans and plus sized women cannot sell fantasy. I obviously think that he was wrong. That's just subjective opinion. I think he was wrong. And I think that it is clear that plus sized trans women and also now older models are very capable of selling fantasy because they did that this year. They included all of the above. And it had very high watch times. It had record breaking numbers in live streams from this year's show. Instead of it being because of the models, what he thought back then and why they weren't casting new types of models, I believe Victoria's Secret lost its brand identity in that they struggle to sell fantasy because the show had lost its quality and production value. The themes of 2018 show were confusing and lackluster. And the show had like the lowest people tuning in out of in a long time. I think it was only 3 million viewers. They had Candace Swanpoel in a white T shirt for one of the looks. Okay. That lowering of quality. They had one girl in an oversized black graphic T shirt. It's a Victoria's Secret fashion show. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to wear these bras that I'm seeing on the Runway to go work out and then like sit in the car and go on a road trip and be comfortable or edit videos at home for hours. The Victoria's Secret fashion show one, I'm, I know that I'm not watching it to buy those bras for the most part because the fantasy bras are like 15 million. I'm watching it because it's escapism. I'm watching it because it's fantasy. Sending a girl down in a oversized black graphic T shirt on the Victoria's Secret fashion show Runway. Obviously they were trying to cater to the audience of like an aerie that was becoming popular. I think that would literally be like sending, you know, a peewee soccer team to compete against the US Olympic women's team. It's just not the vibe. It's just not the vibe. Can't believe they did that. But just look at the looks from the 2018 Victoria's Secret Fashion show and you will understand what I mean by like, they had lost their magic touch. And like the quality, the opening looks were the theme. I don't know what the theme was, but it was like plain colored garments, like black and white. And they looked like knockoff Calvin Klein underwear that you like. The clearance ones you get at Marshalls, which I do love those. I'm not hating on them. I love them. They even put their supermodel Barbara Palvin in black plain leggings. There was an uninspired floral theme that reminds me of the quote from Devil Wear Prada, where she says, flowers for spring. Groundbreaking. They could have sent each model down the Runway with wings that looked like different plants or insects. If you guys go to the Met Museum right now in New York, they have a Their fashion, like the. The thing you can walk through. It's all of these garments that were designed by different clothing designers that were inspired by different plants, flowers, insects, the garden, like nature. It's water. It's so cool. They could have done that for this floral theme of the Victoria's Secret fashion show. But instead, it was like the same couple prints in leggings. And then they tried to do something interesting. I will give them credit for. They had these, like, parachutes go down the Runway, but they didn't really photograph well. They didn't look great on video. You could tell it, like, was hard to carry. It kind of looks like the parachutes that Taylor Swift's openers wear at the ERAS tour. But, like, that looks cool. You know, this was just, like, really awkwardly done. And there was also a Celtic theme, which had lots of plaid that the outfits looked more like a Halloween costume rack. The plaid on plaid was very overstimulating visually, and yet none of them stood out from the last one that just went down the Runway. So in 2018, Victoria's Secret's identity crisis was not because they were struggling to evolve to include a variety of models, which, that's what it seems they thought their identity crisis was. It was because they'd become lazy with their production value in an attempt to give them grace as well. I think that after 20 plus years of doing a unique fashion show, there does come a time where you kind of run out of interesting themes to execute. And I think that was also part of the problem here. When I think back on buying bras or swimsuits as a teenager and young adult from Victoria's Secret, when I was walking into that store, I did not have the intention of getting something comfortable. I knew that was going to be, like, my fancy bra that I wore out with my good Judies, like, showing through a crop top. That's why I was going to Victoria's Secret, and then I'd go next door to Aerie to get the comfortable stuff. The 2018 show's opening theme, where they put Barbara Palvin in leggings, it literally looked like the sail rack of Zell Zella workout clothes at Nordstrom's Rack. It was comfort not fantasy. And that is where they lost the plot. Brianna's version of the Savage x Fenty show. It was kind of like a music video on crack. And that's why it made sense for her. She had four of those shows that ran from 2018 to 2022. They offered something new from Victoria's Secret and they filled the void when Victoria's Secret was on hiatus. I think if Rihanna had launched the Savage x Fenty show and she had tried to send angels down the Runway with certain wings, like, that would have not translated well because they would have been like, you're copying Victoria's Secret. Instead, Rihanna just did something that felt real to her. The tour to me didn't fail because it was more inclusive and evolved to represent more models. And it failed because it was a knockoff. Savage x Fenty. There was no live production. There was no charm, there was no Runway. There was no mistake. I love when there's like mistakes on the Victoria's Secret fashion show. That's okay. Like it's like watching the Super Bowl. That's what makes it exciting is that like, you don't know what's going to happen. Now I'm going to give my personal opinion and then I will get into the paid segment. I was genuinely unsure about the Victoria's Secret future until this fashion show. I think they have an open window of a genuine comeback now. The amount of people who tuned in this year compared to last year is already a promising start. They got back to what they were good at. The fantasy bras, the escapism, the live production, the audience, the celebrity cameos. I love the entrance with Lisa on the motorcycle and I wish more people were talking about that. I loved Tyla having a Runway moment in the Shimmy. I liked the share moment with the choir, although I couldn't tell if she was lip syncing or not. But I don't even care. I loved when the performer came out and she was playing guitar as Kate Moss is walking down the Runway. I love that the wings had words on them. But I was confused why Candace had wings that said Victoria's Secret. And then Lila Moss, obviously Kate Moss's daughter. But this was maybe her second time walking in the show. She got wings that said her name on it. I was like, damn. Like, I feel like they should have given those to the supermodels. I, I was a little confused that all of the OG supermodels had like their hair and slick backed ponytails. I wasn't sure what that was. I loved that this show finally felt inclusive, Although I know they still have ways to go. I love that there were even older models on the Runway. A few problems that I had with the show is that I wish it was longer. Like, when it ended, I was like, damn. Like, I was getting into it. But I do think that that might be a good thing. It left me wanting more, which is a way better place to be in versus last year, where I watched maybe the first five minutes of the tour, and then I turned it off because I got so bored. I couldn't fathom watching an hour of it. I know they had Tyra Banks as the closer for the comeback show this year because she was the first ever model to wear wings on the Runway, which started kind of accidentally. This entire brand of like, oh, that was a moment. We're going to have Victoria's Secret Angels. Every year. It's going to be these girls that wear the wings. And that was like, something that Tyra was a part of, that. That origin story. However, her outfit that they sent her down was so, like, underwhelming. I think they could have done something better for her. And my own personal problems with Tyra is that the way she treated women on her show, America's Next Top Model, I don't love, but like I said earlier, that is who Tyra Banks is, and it's why it worked for her. She doesn't care. Like, she's like, yeah, that's who I am. They could have maybe canceled her in the show if she tried to frame it as actually helping these girls and, like, having their best interest at heart. But I think the whole time watching America's Next Top Model, you were rooting for the girls, but you kind of understood that, like, the show was more. So I think for Tyra to prop herself up, in my opinion, as this the best model in the world, and it really made her a household name. So I said this in the last episode or in a video that America's Next Top Model was not about the search for the next model. America's Next Top Model. The whole time. The winner was Tyra Banks. She was the next top model. She was the winner. The girls were kind of just pawns to create storylines and interests. But you really can't name any of the girls from the show, except maybe there's one girl, Eve. Other than that, a lot of the girls from America's Next Top Model didn't actually go on to become high fashion models. But Tyra Banks is very take it or leave it. And that's also the thesis of this show. But I didn't love the look that they sent her down in for the closer. So my last critique of this show is that I wish they had better themes. It was really confusing. There used to be a clear separation of a transition between two themes. The stage would have different props. But this time it felt kind of blended together, even though they had the different performers. But I think that's like an easy fix. I think the show was them getting back to their identity, though, while still evolving. The core of Victoria's Secret is like we are selling fantasy. We are the store that you walk into after you've gotten your comfortable, cheap underwear. You come in here for that one special night. That is what they are known for. I think they got back to that this year. I think that they were inclusive again. They didn't have to change their why they didn't have to change their identity. They were able to still evolve and add more inclusive models. But the reason that the audience was really hard on them and still is is because they committed a cardinal sin. One, they failed to evolve. And then two, with going quiet and then the tour that happened last year, that was like a total shift from what they normally did. It was clear that they didn't know who they were anymore. So now I'm going to get into the paid segment, which is going to be what comes next for Victoria's Secret. I have my own prediction for how I think they can make a really big comeback and, like, get in the good graces. And then I'm going to talk about how you can apply these learnings and this message to yourself. If you're a creator or brand and you want to know how you can evolve and not get stuck in a dead end and make your content exciting again without committing the cardinal sin of having an identity crisis. But if you've listened this far and you were a free coconut. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciated you guys listening. This is one of my favorite episodes to film and to research. I think it was so fascinating. Let me know in the reviews if you want me to do a more deep dive into the history of Victoria's Secret. And I can do that if you want. And then if you're a paying member, I hope you see me on the other side. But.