← Middle Row w Coco Mocoe
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Did you know that Love Island USA previously aired on CBS with a host named Arielle Vandenberg in its first three seasons? While the show's first season was filmed In Fiji in 2019, it had a failure to launch. It didn't actually take off until season six. Part of the reason the first few seasons failed to launch is that it was on cbs, which has strict broadcasting rules, which made it a lot harder for the show to follow. That kind of messy, sexy, authentic feel that made it a hit in the uk. In its first few seasons, the show just could not find its audience. So how did it then become the number one biggest reality TV program in the US six seasons later? I have a marketing theory on one to two specific decisions that Love Island USA producers made that catapulted this show and made it eclipse all other TV programming. It is the number one most watched show, scripted and unscripted, so we'll get into that later, but it's eclipsing House of the Dragons in Bridgerton. How does a show go from almost being canceled because no one's watching it to this huge hit? Today's episode of Middle Row with Coco Moco Podcast will be about the brilliant marketing behind Love island usa. A once struggling show that almost came to a close is now running laps around other reality TV and scripted programming. There are specific reasons for that. How can you apply these decisions to your own lives? Whether you're an artist, you're a creator, you're a brand owner, or you're just someone with a phone and a wifi connection who one day wants to find their own audience and voice, these are decisions that you can apply to your own self. So much for watching the Middle row podcast on YouTube and Spotify and Apple. While this is a podcast where I interview your next favorite celebrity such as Slater, Adela and Charlie, XCX and Jade, I have been doing these solo episodes now and they're becoming some of my highest performing, so I'm just gonna keep at it. You can let me know in the reviews on Spotify and Apple or in the comment section on YouTube. What other topics you want me to give my marketing theories on. Some other solo episodes include my thoughts and theories on Cat's Eye, Ella Langley, now Love Island USA and then the next episode after this is going to be about shows like off campus. Leaving a review really helps the podcast climb on the charts. So thank you for your kind words and also for your honest words there. You can leave your critiques and let me know what you think will make this show better because I'm really open. Like every time we're on set, I feel like every single episode we're always trying little things just to tweak the episodes, make them better every single time. Now we're going back to the episode. Let's discuss Coconut. Before we get into theories on why the show went from defunct to the number one show in the U.S. let's talk about its history and understand the contrast of their decisions. The first season followed its hit formula from the UK which brought a roster of singles to Fiji. They introduced couples and chaos with pairings followed by bombshells and high stake eliminations. But one of the hiccups that led to a failure to launch for Loved Island USA in its first three seasons was that they had to follow strict broadcasting guidelines because cbs, which is where it aired its first three seasons, not Peacock. Because CBS uses public airwaves, it has to follow strict FCC guidelines that streamers like Peacock and HBO don't have to follow. They also had to follow strict 60 minute time slots with room for commercials due to its airing via broadcast. Compare that to the show which lives on streamer. Now they can have episodes that are almost two hours long if that's what it takes to tell a proper story. I I think the first episode of Love Island USA this season was two hours. Users on the Love Island USA Reddit have previously described the CBS era of Love Island USA as claustrophobic. In four of Love island usa, CBS wanted to cut back on the amount of episodes that it was airing each week to make more room for its summer programming. The parent company of Love Island, ITV pushed back on this. According to Televisual, this opened up the show to a bidding war amongst streamers. Peacock offered 80 episodes for two seasons straight to streaming, which would allow them to sidestep the sanitized broadcasting rules that CBS was previously following. And if you think about the feat which we'll kind of get into here, but like 40 episodes per season is kind of insane. If you think about like House of the Dragons, I think House of the Dragons takes like four to five years to film a season and they only have eight episodes. So just think about what they're really undertaking. When Peacock won the bidding war, they swiftly replaced the original host, Ariel Vandenberg with Sarah Hyland. Sure. As you guys know, Highland is an actress who had just finished her run on the 11 Emmy Award winning comedy show Modern Family. Peacock really wanted to set a precedent that the show would now have a massive household name host and Sarah Hyland had to step down as host after season five due to scheduling conflicts. She was going to appear in a theater production of Little Shop of Horrors on Broadway. Peacock had a new issue. How could they find a notably high value pop culture relevant host to carry the torch for season six? At the time, Ariana Maddox was becoming a household name after a tragic breakup and cheating scandal with her longtime partner, Tom Sandoval on Vanderpump Rules. I'm a massive Vanderpump Rules fan and I, I'm one of the people, I'm one of the, the guinea pig test subjects here that I'm talking about where I only started watching Love Island USA because of Ariana Maddox being the host, not the other way around. I knew, I knew what the show was, I'd heard of it, but I just didn't care. But when I knew that someone from my cult favorite show, Vanderpump Rules was going to be on it, I tuned in. The reason that this even really made sense is because during an intense argument that Ariana had with Tom on season 10 of Vanderpump Rules, she kind of mentions to him, like, I want to have more one on one time with you. I'm paraphrasing. I want to have more one on one time with you. You're always going out. I like, I just want to stay home and watch Love island with you. And then. To which Tom responds, I think he said something like, there's like a hundred episodes. Which, it's funny because he's not wrong. Like, I definitely understand what he was saying. Love island has so many episodes. I was in Europe and I was trying to. You can't watch Love Island USA in Europe. There's like a block on Peacock there. And I got so far behind and I was kind of keeping up with the show via tick tock. So I'm sort of caught up now. But it's actually funny because I was at Cannes lion and if, you know, you know, Cannes Lion's like the marketing illuminati, okay? It's like all of these big players go there for one week of the year in the south of France. We have a bunch of meetings, we shake hands, we listen to panels, we go on panels. I freaking got in a helicopter and went to San Tropez one day with a brand. Like, that's just the vibe, you know? And so in true can lion fashion, I'm waiting in line for pizza and the guy in front of me is talking to me about, how's my can lion going? And he's telling me what he does. And he's like, yeah, I'm an app developer. I built the Peacock app. And I was like, wait, that's so crazy. Like, can you fix my phone so that I can watch Love Island USA while I'm in Europe? I haven't been able to watch it. And he went on my phone, hit a few buttons, and he was able to turn on Love Island USA for me on Peacock. So that was a win. But I didn't end up having time to watch it anyways. But that's a story for another day. However, Love Island USA has so many episodes and we're going to talk about that also in this podcast. But it really made sense for Ariana to then kind of become integrated in this Love island world because she had organically brought up that she was a fan of it on the show, not knowing that the scandal was going to happen, not knowing that she was going to become a household name because of it, and not even knowing if that conversation was going to make it into the actual episode. It's not. It's not like this was a planted storyline. In the midst of the Vanderpump rules chaos, Ariana then makes a guest appearance in season five of the show. This is at the height of scandal, and another thing to consider is that Bravo is under the NBC Universal Peacock umbrella, so it makes it easier for them to kind of play chess and like move the different players around different shows and franchises to get hype. That's, I think, why Sierra Miller from Summer House on Bravo is also now appearing on Love island with Ariana in season five making a guest appearance. I think it was episode eight. It was kind of this test run that Peacock had to, I think, see if maybe Ariana could then be the new host. As they were about to announce Highland's departure to fans, the and of course Maddox secured the spot. Why did Ariana Maddox become the tipping point? I want to talk about this and then I'll get into the specific strategy decision that I think made Love island the biggest show in the world and how you can apply that to your own whatever you're putting out on the Internet. People I think might underestimate the power of Bravo fandoms, but I kind of equate it to the power of Marvel fandoms for straight men. Bravo has some of the most active subreddits now and and cultural currency when it comes to their shows. While Real Housewives was the engine that moved the Bravo ship forward, I actually think it's the scandals on their younger shows like Vanderpump Rules and Now Sarah Miller vs Wes Wilson and Amanda Batula on Summer House that seem to kind of give Bravo this new spark in the pan with Gen Z audiences specifically. So it's no surprise to me that Sierra is now hosting after sun on Love island usa, the same way that Ariana Maddox became the full time host of Love island usa. I'm really curious to see what Sierra's trajectory might be maybe hosting a different show on Peacock, since it doesn't seem like Ariana Maddox is going to be leaving that anytime soon, nor does the audience or network want her to. Sarah Hyland hosted the show of Peacock in season four and five. It was Ariana Maddox becoming the main host for Season six. That seemed to be the denominator that made Love Island USA the biggest show in the country in 2024. Scripted and unscripted. That was really the only noticeable difference between season five and Season six that I can think of. The Vanderpump Rules fandom at that point had been primed for creating fan edits, running fan accounts, posting deep dive theories and thoughts on every scene, and essentially this was a show that had built its own ecosystem. I think also because Vanderpump Rules wasn't the golden child at Bravo for a long time, the Real Housewives franchises were. It kind of created this audience that was like the one that was like running marketing for the show because they knew that they weren't getting as much support it seems as the other shows. And so it made this really self sustaining fan base that I think even Real Housewives doesn't have an Ariana Maddox became the host of Love island usa, a show that had previously failed to launch and and rival its parent IP of Love island uk. The Vanderpump Rules fans are the ones who carried the torch in support of Ariana and I think made the show interesting on social media, thus converting to viewership. I think a lot of those fan edits that were made of like Leah and Rob and Serena and Cordell that season six of Love island usa, I actually think that was from the Vanderpump Rules ecosystem on realizing that the show had become a massive hit. Just to compare it to season five to Season six, winner of Season six Serena Page told Associated Press that the girls realized how massive the show had become that specific season when producers came into the kitchen before they filmed the finale and told them that they had gotten more viewers than Bridgerton and House of the Dragons, making it the most streamed show for scripted and unscripted then joked that she was a fan of Love Island USA before appearing and she knew that the show was was not that popular. So she kind of like acted more authentically and in her own words was like crashing out because she thought no one was going to see it. So when she realized how many people were actually watching the show, she was like, oh no. Like I. I was like doing the most. But I think that authenticity of the season six cast, combined with Ariana Maddox as the host and Peacock streaming, allowing for the peel back of broadcasting roles, are the things that made the show a hit in 2024. So if those are what made the show a hit, how has Love Island USA maintained its hit status and only grown more in the last two seasons? Let's talk about what I call the fire hose effect in marketing or the fire hose method. However you want to say it. Unlike other reality shows or even scripted shows, Love Island USA operates more like a live sports programming event than a structured slow pace and preparation pre filmed reality show or scripted show. Most other shows are filmed months, maybe even years in advance, with some contestants or cast being tethered to strict NDAs for years between when they film and when the show finally airs. An example of this would be Love Is Blind on Netflix. Some of the contestants might film, get engaged, and then have to keep that relationship a secret and and wait years before their season airs. Which to me is like so insane. As Love Island USA is operating in real time kind of this Panopticon surveillance state, the only difference between a live sporting event like the World cup and Love Island USA is that there's a 17 hour time difference between Fiji and New York City. So this is giving producers and editors a slight lag so that they can cut down 24 hours of footage into a 90 minute package for Peacock. According to the Wrap, if a conversation happens between islanders in Fiji at 9am that they deem noteworthy, the first line of editors in the war room known as the Story Team can clip that raw moment and send it over to production within 15 minutes of it happening to start working it into the upcoming episode in real time. Unlike other reality shows on prog programs like Bravo, the live nature of Love Island USA really allows fans to have a say in what is happening in real time with votes on the app. And while it's not as precisely acknowledged within the show, it does seem editors and producers use the conversations online as a way to drive narratives for the islanders. An example of this would be last year when Alandria and Nick both got dumped from the island, but they were brought back as a couple due to a push for them online. This was clearly a great decision as those two have become the most popular duo to come out of the season despite not even being the winners. That's not a split second decision a producer can make on a different franchise that is filmed and edited months to a year beforehand mimics that of a live sports game. The stakes are happening in real time and the audience is part of that chaos. And this leads me to the Firehouse Method in marketing and this is the one decision that made Love Island USA the biggest show in the country. The Firehose Method is the concept of putting out so much content constantly that you essentially drown out your competition. It runs on the idea that audiences don't necessarily want entertainment, they want companionship. People are scrolling on their phones anyways while watching a show. So do you need perfect lighting? Do you need, you know, perfect audio all the time? Maybe not. Besides the host and the bombshell walk ins, for the most part, Love Island USA is using quick and seemingly kind of like cheap surveillance cameras that can be compared to like a high quality ring camera. Look at them during the challenges. The lighting is harsh as freak. It looks so crazy. But none of that matters to the audience. We don't care. The show is doing laps around major streaming drama shows like House of the Dragons in Bridgerton that use fancy cameras and makeup artists and wardrobe stylists and set designers. It's proof that in order to be the most watched creator artist or to have the most watched show, you don't really have to overthink it. Audiences want a show that can offer them constant companionship. This also applies to content creators. The ones who are putting out constant content are often the ones that catapult themselves into the mainstream consciousness on the algorithms. One person who's been all over my for you page lately is Haley Bechelder. She's a lifestyle creator, often compared to Alex Earl and Tana Mongeau, and she has a podcast on the Unwell Network. On the Fourth of July weekend, she posted 16 tick tocks in one given day. Most of them are quick moments of her brothers and family partying on the east coast, and that doesn't include the constant stream of videos from her brothers and best friend Graydon as well. Combined, they're probably posting a hundred tick tocks a day. They aren't scripting out videos. They aren't brainstorming hook sentences on a whiteboard using a fancy camera or tripod or road mics. No Instead they are just fire hosing the content. They're drowning out almost all other lifestyle influencers that same weekend just by sheer volume. I think that is often a more difficult skill than those who are over producing themselves. But it's comparing apples to oranges. I'm not saying one approach is better than the other, but the fire hose method can be used for a massive franchise like Love Island USA to a smaller growing content creator or musician who have the time and energy to to spam their content and drown out the competition. I'm always really impressed at lifestyle and vlogging creators that just film constantly. I think of like a brand flakes or even an Alex Earl where say I'll be at a Coachella. They're at the same Coachella as me and I'm like how are they posting? Like three tick tocks an hour like it's hard work. You're in the sun, your phone is dying. Did you get the audio? Is there copyrighted music in the back? Are you adding the captions? Are you doing the text? Are you cutting it? Are you also uploading it to Instagram? Like there are so many decisions being made and I actually like. I know people think it's like easy but it's. I think lifestyle and vlogging content is actually one of the hardest to pull off. To keep up with this firehouse method strategy without burning out the storyline, Love Island USA now also has filler episodes for Saturday called After sun that is now hosted by Tuffy and Sierra. This means the only one day that they have off is Wednesday. Think about the logistics that have to go into that one day. They have to clear out the backlogs and make room for more footage on cameras and hard drives. They have to come up with storylines and challenges for the upcoming week. They have to recalibrate. The islanders also need a day off from filming. I'd be curious to see what they do on their day off. Do they let them sleep in? Do they not have to do their makeup? Can they stay in AC all day of Island USA has become the biggest show in the country by using the firehouse method in marketing is one show that has paid the same price for this same strategy. So it is something to still be careful of. It's not always foolproof. You know you can still have your flaws. You can still pay an expensive price for putting out so much content without having the time to vet it like other shows. A show that has paid this price is Big Brother usa. I grew up a huge Big Brother fan as my Family was a Big Brother household. We'd watch it every summer. I remember, I think his name was like Dr. Will. There was Boogie Boogie Town or something. There was Janelle, there was Rachel. Yeah, I remember that show. And Big Brother is a show that has episodes airing three days a week. And that seemed really like really, really hard to do. So it's crazy that Love island now does six days a week. Did you know that Big Brother began livestream feeds as early as season one in the year 2000 with AOL as their partner. Okay, so they were ahead of the curve. Fans of the show had to use dial up Internet to access these streams. And Big Brother using live streams as early as season one in 2000 again is proof that audiences don't always want entertainment. I think of entertainment and high quality is like House of the Dragons, okay? That is like a really high quality entertainment. Sometimes audiences don't want that. Audiences want companionship. You can produce the best show, you can produce the best Tick Tock, the best podcast in the world. People are going to be scrolling on their phones anyways while watching it. So a show like Big Brother is understanding that it's not always about it needing to be good quality. It's about just showing up. They did it on a. Well, the first season and then between seasons two and 13, the feeds were on an on a website called Real Networks. But then Big Brother and CBS realized how lucrative these live streams were. I remember my little sister would like sit at our family computer and watch the live streams. So CBS brought them in house. Starting with season 15 in 2013, they created an app called CBS All Access which then became Paramount. Plus, the early days of the Big Brother live stream existed before the rise of social media and corporate sponsorships weren't as reactive to controversies. While this led to a more authentic experience for viewers that they couldn't find anywhere else, it did come at a price. 2013 was a notable year where contestants of Big Brother, Aaron and Gina Marie, had racist comments that were directed at other contestants that came up on the live streams. Big Brother also had an issue with fans figuring out alliances or high stakes decisions on the live streams prior to the episode airing. Fans could also poke holes in some of the stories that were being given on the edit because they didn't coincide with conversations that they'd seen take place on live streams. So Peacock also has its own problem now with fans hijacking the narrative. And it seems that Peacock is trying to regain a bit of that control. And fans, I think the more content you put out, the more companionship that a fandom feels with you. While that makes it more loyal, it does give fans a little bit more entitlement over you. And that can be a very slippery slope. So, for example, this year on Love island usa, it doesn't seem that we're getting a Twitter challenge. This is where the contestants read out viral tweets about themselves to learn more about public perception. For the first time since their hold away in this villa, they have no idea what's happening. In season six, they revealed a viral tweet about Casa Amore bombshell Daya in which a screenshot appeared of her and Cordell brother and Cordell's brother Odell Beckham Jr's Instagram thirsting over him. I'm using air quotes. Obviously, this humiliated dia, and it could be marked as the moment that Cordell solidified his kind of buyer's remorse for bringing her back into the villa. But the crazy thing is, I don't even think anyone talks about this online. That that tweet and that screenshot was later debunked as Photoshopped. So she was humiliated on TV in front of her other contestants for something that actually ended up being Photoshopped. I think this year, Peacock is not really doing the Twitter challenge as a way to let the audience know that, like you, y' all really cannot have this much control over the narrative anymore. Like, I think that Peacock is actually really frustrated at the fandom and really frustrated at the conversations that would take place sometimes where I think, yes, I love watching. I love watching reality tv. Not to make it like, pseudo smart, but I love watching reality TV because it does feel intellectual. It does feel like, you know, I minored in sociology in college, and I feel like when I watch reality tv, I'm watching a petri dish of different personalities and backgrounds and people interacting and what that chemistry happens, you know, like, you put different particles together, what is that reaction going to be? And I think that reality TV is a pressure cooker for that. However, I think that while there are so many think pieces that I'm even contributing to with this episode in my Tick Tocks, there's so many think pieces and videos about what people think of the contestants and the sociology in these implications. And a lot of those are important conversations to have. However, I think that it sometimes dehumanizes the actual people that are part of the experience. And, you know, Love island specifically has a history with contestants committing suicide and attributing their time on Love island to being part of the reason they did that. So I think that Love island is kind of like, you know, they're kind of putting the audience on timeout right now. Like, guys, we're on timeout. They're like, you're not getting a Twitter challenge. Like, we're going to do a karaoke challenge because we want to remind the audience this is supposed to be lighthearted and fun, and you guys were doing way too much. So Peacock's firehouse method, where they just drown out the other competition via sheer volume, still comes at a cost. And the cost is this surveillance state and entitlement that the audience can feel over people that they have access to. Nearly 24. 7. A side note, before I get into the last chunk of this is like, I would be curious if you guys watched it this far and if you let me know in the comments if you agree with this. If you don't, if you're watching the video version. I've gotten so many freaking comments and dms and also just people in person, like my friends telling me that I remind them of Kenzie from Love island usa, that I look like her, that I talk like her, that our mannerisms are the same. I personally don't see it. I'm not offended. I actually. I'm a Kenzie apologist. I love Kenzie. I think she's playing this game the way the men play it. Like, everyone's mad at Kenzie, but I'm like, at least we have a girl on the frickin show who's like, finally playing it like a man would, and she's being punished for that. And also, okay, now this is just me being a Kenzie apologist. Another thing about that is Melanie was having a conversation with Kenzie recently and was like, you're not my friend. Like, with the whole Soul situation. I disagree. I actually think it was really nice that Kenzie befriended Soul because Seoul was being bullied. Soul was being isolated from the group. And we now know that was kind of sincere triangulating her. But I think it was nice that Kenzie told Seoul, like, I'll be your friend. No one was being friendly to Seoul like Justice for Soul. So I don't know, maybe I do see myself in Kenzie in some ways, in some of the decisions that she's making. But I've just been told that I specifically remind people of Kenzie in the way I talk, in my mannerisms. And so I don't know. I'm curious if you guys think that. I don't know what it is. One of my friends is like, it's your eyes. I'm like, oh my God, like, do I have really expressive eyes or that? It's like the way I move my hands and my mouth is what someone else said. So who knows. And now I'm starting to get comments that I look like Jen. So I'm like, you know, maybe I'm just, maybe I'm a little chameleon. Maybe I just reflect whoever I'm consuming at the time. I don't know. But yeah, justice for Kenzie. Justice for Kenzie. I really like Kenzie and I'll die on that hill, hopefully. I don't regret saying that. We'll see. But to tie up this pretty episode in a bow. If you want to grow your own platform, you can attempt the firehouse method. But you also have to keep in mind the risks. The price of celebrity in the 2000s is consenting to a surveillance state. Gone are the days of the mysterious celebrity. The last of its kind seem to be actors like Zendaya and Tom Holland where they kind of just let the work speak for itself. But even then, they are now beginning a rigorous press cycle this year to promote back to back movies like the Drama and the Odyssey and Spider Man. I think even Taylor Swift hosting her wedding at Madison Square Garden and announcing Just Married on the billboards around the venue seem to be a nod to her understanding this surveillance state that allows her to remain the biggest celebrity in the world. The new age of celebrities that are coming from reality TV are paying the ultimate price for their platform. Same with content creators that want to blow up in 2026 versus 2020. You could still have a bit of mystery, you could still be in a niche, but now it's like you have to be constantly filming yourself and you have to reveal a lot about yourself. And now we're getting into live streams. For example, we're in, I think three to five years. Gen Alpha is going to think that it's really outdated to film a tick tock and post it like 30 minutes later. They're gonna be like, no, that's like Chuki. That's outdated. Gen Alpha is going to want content immediately. Everyone's going to be live streaming. And I'm not saying I'm condoning it, I'm just saying that's where I see it going, that filming a video and then posting it a day or two later or even a week later is literally going to be seen as outdated and chewy by Gen Alpha. I'm calling it now this 24 hour surveillance that follows for Example, a content creator filming themselves and, or, you know, Love island contestants leaving this villa. That is a price that they're paying for celebrity. This quick turnaround is also where I think Peacock drops the ball when it comes to the reunion episode. I think Peacock is great at being at the top of the game when Love Island USA is airing, but then they. So many shows actually do this. Also Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, they have this incredible run that has people tuning in every week for episodes and then they wait like two months to frickin post a reunion. So that happened last year. Love Island USA's reunion aired on August 25th. That was a whole month after the final episode. That's crazy. And it went against the ethos of the show's format, which is constant and quick content turnaround. So by the time the reunion aired, first of all, most of the cast have already done podcast interviews on like, Vile Files. I'm like, I think it's so funny. Like, Nick Vile runs laps around some of these major streaming networks and getting the scoop. If I was at Netflix, if I was at Hulu, if I was at Peacock, and I have a reality show that's the top of the freaking game, I would tell all of these people, you cannot go on Vile Files or, you know, these podcasts and reveal information that we're going to ask you about at the reunion, because then no one's going to turn up at the reunion. It's old news. By the time these reunions are airing again, the cast have already posted everything on podcasts, on Instagram, stories on. They've had public sightings that answer questions that the audience might have for them at a reunion. I actually think that it would be so smart. Maybe they're starting to do it. If, you know, places like Bravo, places like Peacock, Hulu, launch in house podcast networks so that these people have to go on the podcast that is in house. They have it in their contract. They cannot go and reveal information on vial files, etc. I think that Peacock should turn around the reunion episode at a quicker pace while the show is still hot off the press. Now, if you're a creator and you want to grow your own platform, you're artists. You want to grow your own platform with your art. Really consider the firehouse method, if you have the bandwidth for it. This strategy is how most lifestyle creators make a name for themselves. They constantly post in hopes to win over the algorithm and drown out the competition. It just takes a lot of energy, sacrifice and risk. And your phone also has to just constantly be charged When I was a Cannes Lion, I was posting videos of like the different, like the different things that I was like, what's it called? There were beaches, like YouTube Beach, Spotify Beach. And I was posting videos about that. Guys, my phone, I'm like, how do people vlog? Like, my phone was at like 12 the entire week. It was so hard. But if you have the energy, if you have the resources, do it okay. Drown out the competition by sheer volume. It doesn't have to be good. Audiences don't want good quality. They want companionship. Now let me know what your guys's thoughts are on Love Island USA in the comments. Why do you think that this show became number one in the US and there's no right or wrong answer. Like, you guys can also disagree with me and I'm so down to have that convo. Like, I'm really curious. I'm really open minded. I think there's so many factors that go into it. I would love to hear like new perspectives, maybe even my own blind spots that I had in my essay. And I always want these episodes to be more of a discussion than a lecture. And let me know what other trending topics you want me to cover or what other upcoming celebrities I should have on my podcast. Middle Row with Coco Moco next. Thank you so much for tuning in. Coconuts. Make sure to leave a review if you made it this far. It helps so much if you can take two minutes to leave a review on Apple Spotify. Leave a comment on YouTube and subscribe. Turn on notifications. Follow turn on notifications on Spotify. All of that helped me. So you never miss a Middle Row Monday. Thank you guys.