← AI for Educators Daily with Dan Fitzpatrick
AI for Educators Daily with Dan Fitzpatrick
Interview: Chris Phillips, VP Education at Google
00:17:14
Loading summary
Transcript20 lines
- [00:00]
A
I am at the Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View, Silicon Valley at Google IO. This is Google's flagship annual event, a festival of everything Google. And as you can imagine, AI was a huge part of the event. After the two hour keynote from the CEO Sundar Pichai, I got to interview Chris Phillips. Chris is the VP and General Manager of gun Education at Google. That means he oversees Google Maps, Waze, Earth Street View and Google for Education. We chatted about some new AI in education research that Google just released and what the major announcements from the keynote might mean for education. I hope you enjoy it. Let's jump in.
- [00:36]
B
Chris, you've published the first major randomized control trial of Gemini in classrooms today. 1.2 to 1.7 years of learning process in Sierra Leone Critics have argued for two years that the evidence base for AI in education was thin. Is this the moment that the argument changes and what's the obligation on schools now, do you think, to act?
- [00:59]
C
Yeah, it's a great question. We think this is just the beginning. This study we're really proud of, done very diligently, is showing evidence that these tools, with the right application in a teacher led environment can really create great outcomes for students. And the guided learning product and experience is super engaging for the students. So you see the students leaning in to learn more about the topic and the acceleration in their learning is something we're really excited about. I think what this is though, when I say it's just the beginning, is that we feel the responsibility to continue to partner work with educators around the world to continue to show evidence that when applied correctly and responsibly, this can deliver great outcomes for both teachers and students in environments all around the world.
- [01:47]
B
Amazing. And then the Don Bosco study in Italy reported a 70% reduction in admin times. 70% reallocation to 1.1to1 mentorship. What did teachers actually have to do differently to get that result? Because my audience is teachers. So that figure of 70% is going to stick with them. So what did they have to do to get that result? And what's the risk that schools here AI saves time and never reinvest those hours where you did?
- [02:21]
C
So we think that in this moment right now, getting teachers in the league, getting educators trained on how to use AI and practical ways, there is such a is a huge opportunity and it can deliver real time savings. We also had a study we did in Northern Ireland that showed real time savings and then the recent study in Italy as well. So we're excited to continue to have teachers share with other teachers, the success they're having. And we've even launched the Google Education series which is like bite sized small training modules that take all kinds of different tasks and activities that teachers do day to day and showing how they can use AI to help them. And there's so much administrative time spent by teachers, so many nights and weekends spent. And this is a great opportunity, we think, to give time back to educators so they can spend more of that time with the students. We don't believe AI is going to replace teachers. We believe this is an opportunity to enhance help them so they can have that human connection with students and spend more of the one on one time and create interesting and engaging lesson plans and use different formats that otherwise would have been like really time consuming and hard to do. The AI makes those things easier and we see the students responding really well to it too.
- [03:37]
B
Amazing. We've just watched the keynote by Sundar and all your guys up on the stage there. Of everything that was announced today, which single announcement do you think a principal, let's say K12 principals should be paying attention to the most?
- [03:54]
C
The presentation that Josh did around how to use Gemini for study guides and what we've been doing in test prep and even the guided learning. Those are really great applications of AI that every principal, every teacher and we believe every student will love using. Think about the intersection where the use of AI truly helps every student and can adapt to their learning style and their pace, but is still led by the teacher. So whatever that lesson is or whatever you're studying, that test you want to do well on, based on the curriculum, based on the content that the teacher or the administration wants to use. These tools can help students catch up, get ahead, advance forward. And we really think that's a win win for educators and students.
- [04:42]
B
Amazing. And you mentioned the AI educating series and you're localizing that into six Indian languages and partnering with the African Union across 55 member states. Is the center of gravity for AI in education shifted away from the US and Europe? And what does that mean for schools in the US and the where I'm from that might think they're out in front of this?
- [05:07]
C
We have a worldwide focus so we believe what we want to build for the education series ultimately rolls out around the world. We launched the announced, we announced launching that in the US that series is kicking off for educators. What's really cool about it is it's bite sized training. We're partnering with iste, but it's also teachers training teachers which we think is really Important. And we want to help provide helpful technology. But educators in the lead is really important. And so by doing that, whether it's in Africa or India and the US we have ambitions to do that worldwide. And we'll localize it in the right languages, with the right content, with the right partners. Because as we go around the world, it's about how we partner with the communities and the educators in those markets. We're not going to go at it alone. We really think it will land much better when it's teacher led with the local. The local experts.
- [06:00]
B
Yeah, I think there's a. And you will have heard this, there's a lot of concern from a lot of educators around the potential of AI to make students dependent on the AI tools and not do their own thinking. I suppose as one of the many people responsible for putting powerful AI like Gemini in front of students around work, what are you guys doing to kind of, I suppose, mitigate against those potential risks?
- [06:28]
C
Yeah, one big thing we're doing to mitigate the risks is to get teachers and educators comfortable with the use of AI. One thing we've seen over and over is when the teacher leads with, here's the appropriate use of AI for their students, here's how we're going to change, how we're going to assess what you learn, here's how we want you to explain what you understood and even drive a deeper learning of a topic. That's when we see really great things happening. So we really think the key here is to get educators, whether it's faculty members in higher ed or teachers in K12, comfortable with the use of the technology to teach the lessons that they're expecting. And then we see students loving the fact that it can actually adapt to their learning style, whether it's an audio format or a video based on what the teacher is instructing. We see a lot of students getting even more active in their learning. They're actually engaging more deeply. And the studies were showing that they're not just seeking the quick answer, they're actually wanting to dig in and master a topic. But what's really important this moment is to help the teachers and the educators, because this is here to help them, not replace. And we still believe strongly that these tools can help the educators. And that's really important to avoid those risks that we just talked about.
- [07:41]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because the people I know in the student cyberthrow are using AI. Well, literally, they're on cognitive overloads. They're not on. They're not giving up Cognitive adults like you say they're learning in new ways and it excite me. The biggest gains in Sierra Leone came from students who hit 15 hours of Gemma Agnes. Should students be thinking about AI the way they think about reading minutes? So like a minimum nuclear exposure or are you comfortable with Google? Effectively setting a standard like that is just trying to take the research and turn it into something meaningful for educators around the world.
- [08:24]
C
Yeah, we don't intend to set any standard of how much use. I think part of setting, measuring that usage and the dosage so to speak was to understand at what point do you see certain measured results. With that said, we think it's really going to be based on the teacher, the students, the environment, the topic, the subject you're teaching. It's really going to be different and frankly it doesn't need to be huge amounts of usage to deliver big results. You can take a complex topic and for a student to have be able to break it into smaller pieces or for a teacher to be able to build a lesson plan that's got three versions for the different kinds of learning happening in their classroom, those are things that can unlock big benefits that don't equal lots of time spent per se. So it's really about that's why that training on different ways they could use the tools and over time the teachers will see how to best apply it to continue to have that human connection. And that's really important. This is not AI taking up the space in the classroom. This is back to the teacher and the student relationship and getting excited about the topic you're learning and using engaging formats. And so we're not intending to set any standard on that. We just want to help educators feel comfortable with the tools and trust and build trust so that they can then guide how it's used. The best decision makers on how much time should be spent should be driven by the administrators, the educators themselves.
- [09:55]
B
They try work in classrooms with I suppose a very probably a very different to what we see in a US UK classroom with shared devices. Part sheet connectivity I suppose to a lot of modern classrooms that might have one to one Chromebooks and so on. Does this research tell us that the device strategy of the last decade matters less than people thought and what should that change about how schools spend their next infrastructure budget?
- [10:30]
C
Well, technology by itself is not going to deliver the learning outcomes. It's a tool that's there in support. So and we think that multiple environments can have positive outcomes if they're managed effectively. So if you're in an Environment where there's a one to one device, we still are building tools where the teacher controls is the device on, off, how it's used, the portion of the class words. We think there's a lot of controls that need to be built into that and we built features to do that. Or you're in a classroom where there's one device and it's a shared device and that device is being used. I was in a classroom where they used NotebookLM to take a storybook, translate it, build a picture view of it, and we're teaching it in multiple languages and all the students were reading it at the same time and the teacher was able to look at all the students directly. It was amazing. So I think the answer is going to be different in different places around the world where the access to the technology is different. But in every case it's got to be the teachers and the educators leading how it's used, how much time, on what curriculum. We're here to support that. And in those situations I think there'll be positive outcomes when it's led that way. And that's why it's so important as we roll this out around the world, we need to be partnering closely with all the local entities because they will understand the right environment. And some places in the world it's going to be a mobile device or a smart board or software. All of that still is assisting the teacher in that moment. And that's really, really important.
- [12:07]
B
Sometimes as somebody who comments and tries to translate what's going on at Silicon Valley for teachers and classrooms, it feels like at multiple stages throughout the year, there's a constant race going on between Google, between OpenAI and Microsoft. Do you, I suppose as somebody who works from the inside of Google within the education space, does it feel like that from the inside, does it feel like you guys are in a race to get your suite of tools in front of students or do you see that on a different end?
- [12:44]
C
Well, Google's always been focused on making information universally accessible and useful and education is like such a core part of that. We've had educational cards for 20 years, so we're not new to having our products progressively get better and being in the classroom in support of the teachers and learning. So in this moment where this introduction of generative AI and how large language models are used and the progression, it's super exciting moment because it's unlocking all kinds of new use cases. So we see it as our responsibility though to be really thoughtful and careful, to focus on genuinely driving great Learning outcomes. That's why we've taught our model how to embed learning science into the actual way that the model behaves in an educational academic use case. So how it can drive active learning, how it can adapt to the learner themselves, how it can manage the cognitive overload that could happen so that we can break topics down and help people really digest. So our guiding principle here is to deliver really great learning outcomes and be trusted by educators and students in this moment. And it's an exciting time where there's a lot of investment coming into the space. So we feel confident that if we do the right thing and we build trust and deliver real learning outcomes, that good things will happen.
- [14:11]
B
Yeah, I suppose let's try and do what we probably shouldn't, and that is get the crystal ball out. And I only say this because I was really struck by what Dennis said this morning about how he thinks we will look back and recognize that we were in the foothills of the Singularity. And that chord really struck me. If we're in the foothills of the Singularity, first of all for you, what? Because I suppose there's so many different definitions of the singularity, but I suppose for you and Google what, what is that singularity? And secondly, what does education or the education system traditional student look like when we have a convergence of AI power under the term the Singularity?
- [15:02]
C
Education is so critical to helping people achieve their full potential. And with AI, I'm really hoping that we're at the foothills that will advance upward into teachers and educators having that confidence on how to use it. That means transforming and building the content they use to teach. That means how the students will actually be building critical thinking skills and communication and collaboration and resilience while they're learning subjects not as a separate thing to learn, but integrated in. So I'm hoping that as we continue to stay connected on this path that we're seeing more and more educators telling stories of student success. Students that might have been falling behind now can catch up and get master a topic that otherwise was difficult for them. Teachers that have large classrooms and have tons of administrative overhead are now having that one on one time with their students. And back to the relationship building that we see students coming out not just learning about history and science and reading all of these things are critical, but they're doing that with new skills applied to that. So they can take a topic they learned about and debate it and argue both sides of it. And that skill match with learning the topics is such an exciting thing that these tools can help unlock. So that singularity is, I think, really helping advance what effectively the hope that all teachers can have that relationship with each student. Each student can find the things that they love and want to master and catch up on the things that they're struggling with. And some of the studies are showing kids that maybe weren't as interested in math, now love math, or, you know, maybe not as interested in that history lesson, and now are able to make it their own and, and, and be able to talk about both sides of that in a deeper way than maybe we traditionally taught. And that is an exciting, exciting time for what? I think we're just at the beginning
- [17:00]
A
phases of my full article about the announcements at Google I O and what they mean for education can be found in tomorrow's edition of the newsletter. Sign up at theaiducator IO to get it in your mailbox tomorrow.