Podcast Host 3 (3:19)

I did not. Nope. I. I have the Mac Mini, but I decided I wanted to use it for my own stuff and I'm using Mac Mini now and I love it, but I'm not going to hook up Open Claw to it. Yeah, I like the fact that Mac Mini can never sleep and never. But it doesn't use up too much energy. So I am going to be using Claude Cowork with it, but not Open Claw. So.

Podcast Host 1 (3:41)

Yeah, and I think, I think there's actually a lot of people that are basically in the same boat, but there is a lot of people still use Openclaw. I actually posted about this on LinkedIn and I got some, some mixed reactions. Some people were pretty disgruntled about this. Basically what happens with Anthropics, their plans, they have a $20 plan, a $100 plan and a $200 plan. Those kind of the base plans that anyone can get. And above that you can buy extra tokens. They just released a feature where you can now buy extra tokens because before that you're getting rate limited. So I was building last. Last week I built two websites from scratch and there were projects I needed to. I hadn't just. It was just maintenance for old businesses, stuff I had to do for a long time. I finally, because I had cloud coworker Got two websites built, one software fully migrated to a new platform which is basically like building it and a brand new software. It was actually a vendor that I used for one of my businesses and I paid a lot of money for them and I just got Cloud Cowork to clone it just for myself and just canceled my subscription to that software vendor. So that was last week. I'm on like, it was like two softwares and two websites this week I'm already blazing through on some new stuff which is all in the school community. But anyways they have their subscription tiers and if you use too much in one hour, Claude Cowork has this issue where they will rate limit you. They're not going to let you keep using it. It's super annoying, whatever. But now they have like a feature where you can buy like bonus credits that when you get rate limited inside of an hour it will use your bonus credits. I mean Claude is really renting us for every penny they can get out of us. But like I mentioned last week, I mean I've never been more productive in my life and I would have spent thousands of dollars if I was paying people to do that. So whatever. But what's interesting is those subscriptions that you use to run cloud code and Claude cowork, the $100, $200, you get a certain amount of tokens. You used to be able to use that same account with openclaw. Now the problem with it is those are actually very subsidized accounts. If you're paying $100, $200 and, and you're actively hitting the rate limits like every time you're actually using about. I've heard estimates of 13,000, but I think it might be more like $1300 in compute. So it's you know, 200 bucks for you. You get $1300 of compute out of it. It's a really good deal. But I think Anthropic just knows that like on average some people are going to need to like use it a ton. So that's why they're going to get, they're going to get like this rate limit ladder which gets them up to the $200 tier. But maybe they only need it on like some certain days and then other days they're, you know, maybe they only have a four hour, four day work week and so three days of the week they're not using it and so they kind of make their money back that way. They don't plan on people like me that use it six days a week. All Day long and all night long from 3am so I'm losing the money, no doubt. But anyways, people that were using OpenClaw, which is now purchased by OpenAI, they shut that off. You cannot use these kind of subsidized plans to buy that. Instead you just have to use their API. So if you were using OpenClaw, what would cost you $200 on Claude cowork is now going to cost you the full $1300. And people are not happy about that.

Podcast Host 3 (6:45)

Yeah, I mean, to me though, this makes complete sense. Like when we talk about AI slop and all this stuff. I think people were using Open Claw to, to run like hundreds of agents at a time. And you know, I even saw this guy in Instagram, he was, he had his like, skill. He would send you and it would, it would set you up with like a marketing department, a cfo, all these different agents, and then you could like watch it run. And it was like a 3D animation of like this game obviously using tons of credits. You know, you could, if you were like some just teenager who hopped on and wanted and was like, you know, make me a Spotify competitor and then it's like running all these agents and using all these credits, that's never going to turn into anything actually profitable, most likely. And so really, I think at the end of the day it's creating a lot of slop, a lot of used tokens and a lot of wasted money for, for Claude, for some of these Instagram punk kids who are doing, doing these kind of business startups. I don't know. That's my thoughts. But what do you, what do you think?

Podcast Host 1 (7:50)

Yeah, I mean it's, it's not, it's not far from the truth if I'm being honest. I mean, you might even be able to classify a lot of what I build as that. But what I do think is true is Anthropic is trying to get users and they're trying, their revenue is growing like crazy. They're obviously on an absolute historical tear, but at the same time they're subsidizing it. And they don't want to subsidize the entire Internet, I think. So random people that are using OpenCloud to do random things, they don't really want to subsidize that. They'll subsidize their core users because eventually maybe they increase the cost or they give you less tokens or there's all sorts of things they can, they could kind of do there. And if they keep people inside of their platform, using their tools. But I think as soon as OpenAI purchased Open Cloud, it's like they were literally just subsidizing their competitor. They're like, we don't want to do that. Now people can switch to codex and an OpenAI has their own coding agent. I would say it's pretty good, not as good. Gemini also has one. Pretty good, not as good. Open Cloud lets you pick any agent, and that's the amazing thing about Open Cloud that's super cool. For now, I'm going with Claude Code and Claude Cowork because it's way more integrated and it's way easier and I'm not a developer and. And setting up Open Claw is an absolute nightmare If I'm being 100% honest. So I just use Claws Cloud Cowork because I am a basic person. But if you're really hardcore, go with Open Claw. You probably can save money and set up a lot of cool stuff and there's still tons of great models. OpenAI's Codex is going to crush it in Open Claw, so I don't think it's going to be the end of the world, but a lot of people were pretty upset about it when this whole thing went down.

Podcast Host 3 (9:19)

Moving forward, I think there's going to be a lot of changes because I know a lot of people who, you know, formerly were just entrepreneurs that are now deep into cloud, cowork, AI agents, you know, using. Using these tools to build their businesses. So, you know, I think as more and more people catch on, it'll kind of almost become like a prerequisite to being an entrepreneur is knowing how to use these tools and actually be, you know, actively using them. So I think, you know, usage is going to go up and so just looking forward, they're having to find ways to throttle it and make sure it's not something that actually loses them money, but makes them money. You know, I think. I think Claude is going to actually end up earning more revenue than a lot of these other big AI companies because so many developers and entrepreneurs are using their software now and paying for it.

Podcast Host 1 (10:09)

Yep, a hundred percent. So at the end of the day, I'm excited to see where this goes. I love all of these agentic tools that actually help you get more stuff done. So I'm thrilled. I'm a huge fan. Guys, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast today. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to leave us a rating review wherever you get your podcast. And as always, make sure to go check out the A Hustle school community if you want to see what crazy adventures we are getting up to as far as growing and scaling our businesses and how you can do the same. All right, we'll catch you guys all in the next episode.

Liberty Mutual Ad Voice (10:39)

Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available, and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better, too.

Podcast Host 1 (11:06)

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

Grainger Ad Voice (11:10)

This is the story of the 1. As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Grainger to be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters, and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Grainger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.