Podcast Host Jamie (3:20)

It's an absolutely insane statistic. I never thought, I always thought OpenAI was untouchable. But I really think the key here in my opinion is the positioning of anthropic versus OpenAI. OpenAI is geared towards maybe the everyday person searching up things, maybe they're looking for the best product to buy. Where Claude has from the beginning been primarily a tool, a business tool for coders, business developers, things like that. And so I think they're positioning as basically we can replace one or multiple employees. With your $200 subscription. Paying $200 seems like almost like a no brainer where I could never picture myself paying the $200 a month for OpenAI because that's not really what their, their value proposition is, you know what I'm saying? So when they were releasing these really cool new tools, it was fun to pay maybe for a month. I know you paid the 200 bucks for OpenAI for one month to test out Sora when it came out. But aside from that there's really not a lot of value proposition there where Anthropic, it's like we're going to, we can replace teams of people essentially for 200 bucks. So I, um, anyways, what are your thoughts on it?

Podcast Host Jaden Wayne (4:34)

Yeah, I, a hundred percent think you agree there. They captured a really interesting industry. They first went off of went for coders which Already was a really high paying job. And so coders are like, well, I'm getting a lot of value out of this. It's worth paying $200. But then they moved into actual job functions with Claude Cowork. So any white collar worker can use it. But they're kind of built on the back of all of the reasoning that their code product had. Because code, you know, is, it turns out, is a really good way to, to think about the whole world when you're doing step by step processes. So I think that they've done a phenomenal job. Their growth revenue is absolutely crazy. So they're founded in 2021. In 2022 they made $10 million. In 2023 they made $100 million. In 2024 they were at $1 billion. In 2025 they were at $9 billion. By the end of the year, $9 billion in basically annual recurring revenue. And so far in 2026 they're at 30 billion as of April. So 9 billion to 30 billion. I mean that is just an absolute explosion of growth. And I think 100% this is being driven by Claude Cowork, which By the way, OpenAI could have dominated this. No doubt in my mind, OpenAI could have dominated this because OpenAI had had chat GPT agents like a year ago and I tested them and I paid $200 a month to get access to it. And, and their agents just weren't good enough. They just couldn't do what you wanted it to do. It was the computer use. It couldn't click on things enough. I would tell it how to do something, it would get stuck every five minutes. It would ask me to like intervene or it ask me like, do you want me to continue? And I'd be like, yes, continue, don't ask me. It just wasn't good. So I just, obviously I'm not going to pay $200 a month for something I have to babysit. Claude Cowork, on the other hand, when they finally got around to, to launching this, that product, I tell Claude Cowork to go build an entire website and it builds the whole thing. I go review it and I'm like, oh, I just, I don't like this, I don't like that. Go tweak this or that. But like it does the whole project in one shot. It sets up my servers, it sets up my domain registrar, it sets up my database. Like it literally does everything for me or it goes and scrapes all the data that I need from a bunch of different sources. Puts them in a spreadsheet and uploads them to a dashboard. For me, like this would take me tons of time. So, yeah, things that I used to have literal job roles to do at AI Box, Claude Cowork now does and a lot of automations that I've been able to build with cloud coworker. So I'll use cloud code to build a tool that then automates that job function. So it's like I'm seeing literal real job function replacement and company growth from this tool. Yeah, $200 a month. Of course I'll pay that. Like, I don't care. I want every single employee at my company to have a $200 a month subscription to this thing because I know that it's going to make them ten times more productive. And so that's the value proposition for enterprise. That's why Anthropic is growing like crazy. It's not because like random users are paying for it. It's because business users are and businesses are paying for this for their employees and white collar workers are paying for this. Where they see like $200 a month saves them so much time and makes them so much more productive. And that's just not something you see with average consumers that might ask ChatGPT, hey, like give me some advice on like a health question I have or help me generate a cute picture of my dog. They're not going to pay $200 a month for that.

Podcast Host Jamie (7:38)

Absolutely. Yep. So let's go back to this story about the Amazon investment in ant. Amazon pledged $5 billion, which is crazy. So Amazon's total investment up to this point in Anthropic is up to $13 billion. But anthropic in turn has planned to use Amazon Web services for their cloud computing, data centers, things like that, to the tune of 100 billion over the next 10 years. So I think it's kind of one of those things again where you sort of have circular investments here. It's like I'll invest in you if you invest in me kind of thing. And there's been some speculation around that as far as like, is, is this an AI bubble? But in this case, I don't think that really applies. Jaden, what are your thoughts on. On the investment side?

Podcast Host Jaden Wayne (8:23)

Yeah, you're right, it is interesting. AWS and Amazon have kind of been one of the oldest investors of Anthropic. I mean, it's. I remember when they first like reported that they were going to do a five or four billion dollars tranched investment in Anthropic a couple years ago and I was like, oh my gosh, that's like so much money. That's insane. And then you literally have Sam Altman that just went out and raised 120 billion, you know, billion dollar or 110 billion dollar funding round for, for chat GPT like I guess two months ago. And then we're just like, well I guess you can just raise over a hundred billion dollars in funding for your, for your company if like that's what you want to do. So anyways, it is interesting. Anthropic always felt like the underdog in a sense that they couldn't get as much money as OpenAI could get in their funding rounds and yet they're making so much in revenue that it sort of solves the problem. Right? Like, and the other interesting thing is OpenAI I think is actually is burning way more money. And which is why you see them cutting back on models like Sora. You see them trying to refocus. They said they're going to go after the, the, the coding component. And to OpenAI's defense now on the whole thing with, you know, Anthropic passing them in how much money they make. I've heard a lot of people say that the way they calculate revenue is different and so that it's not actually passed and OpenAI and a specific thing I saw said, like the only reason why Anthropic looks like they're making 30 billion is because they had like a $8 billion one time deal with a company. I need to do more research on what exactly that was. But I mean without that they'd be at 22. But I mean even if they were at 22 instead of 25, they have raised and they have, they spend four times less money on training runs than OpenAI. So like, and they've raised way less money. So to be fair, it seems like a way more capital efficient company which is probably going to win it in the long run.

Podcast Host Jamie (10:13)

Yeah, and apparently there's more to this deal than just cloud data centers. It's a big part of this is actually Amazon has these custom chips that they're developing. One called Graviton which is a low power cpu and then Trainium which is an Nvidia competitive competitor and AI accelerator chips. It seems like there's more than just data center investment here. It has to do with the chips as well. Have you heard anything on that, Jaden?

Podcast Host Jaden Wayne (10:38)

Amazon basically has a great strategy here. They have some chips that they want to. And we've actually seen this Played out by Microsoft. Exact same strategy. Basically, these guys, they have their new chips, they have their infrastructure. They want to make sure that it's industry standard and it's good enough for everybody. And so by partnering with someone like Anthropic, I mean, Amazon's done this from day one, partnering with Anthropic, so it's really smart on their part. They get Anthropic to not only test their chips, but it's also kind of like the biggest credibility statement for any other company wanting to train an AM model. They're like, look, Anthropic is using our chips to train their models. It's good enough for you. Right? Like, and Microsoft did the same thing with OpenAI when they gave him $10 billion in the early days, and it was like, oh, my gosh, that's so much money. A huge part of that deal was just Microsoft being like, and OpenAI is training everything on Microsoft Azure and using our infrastructure. And they're optimizing their infrastructure for exactly what OpenAI needs, which means they're optimizing it for the entire industry needs. An industry that is spending an insane amount of money. So it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think Amazon's got great chips, but I think it's an even better deal for them to have working on something with Anthropic, where Anthropic is going to help them optimize those chips, optimize the infrastructure, and kind of be the poster child. So everyone else is going to pay them a lot of money, too.

Podcast Host Jamie (11:50)

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, hey, if you enjoyed this episode or got any value out of it, we would really appreciate a rating or review wherever you're listening. We really appreciate those and they help us reach more people trying to get to 100 reviews on Apple Podcasts. So if you're listening on Apple, please drop some stars for us. We'd really appreciate it. And then also be sure to check out our school community if you want to learn how to use some of these tools to actually make money and grow your business. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.

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