Jamie (4:28)

A standalone app I think honestly is pretty interesting. I You know, sometimes with Lovable, you know, it's because it's a web app, it feels like maybe not quite as. I mean, it is fully functional, but I like the idea of having it be its own app. Claude. It's interesting because Claude Code, I feel like has been the kind of leader in coding, especially AI coding, for the past year at least. So I'm interested to see when you try this out, is it actually useful? Does it create good stuff? How's the design factor?

Jaden (5:04)

All that.

Jamie (5:04)

I want to hear all of it.

Jaden (5:05)

Okay. Yeah. And for anyone watching over on YouTube, I'm sharing my screen. You can see all these videos. I think it's linked actually in the show notes of this episode to the YouTube video. So you can go check that out. But yeah, so I'm sharing my screen of what it actually looks like. So it looks very similar to what ChatGPT looks like. It's basically like a ChatGPT thing, but you're chatting with it and you can select what model, which is like GPT 5.2 Codex, medium high or extra high on how much like reasoning it needs to be able to have in order to create something. I'm so used to Lovable that when I got on this I was like, okay, this is gonna be like OpenAI's response to Lovable, because Google has a competitive tool to lovable and there's base 44 and like all these other like vibe coding ones. I will just say this isn't a Vibe coder. This is specifically built for developers. But actually, like, a lot of people can use this, which I've now learned because as a non developer, I've used this. But it's just funny, like my first interactions with it. I'm sure if you're a developer, you'll roll your eyes, but for normal people that are not developers, this will make more sense. But essentially I was redesigning a page in Lovable and I wanted to compare Codex to Lovable. I was redesigning a page in lovable for my SaaS platform AI box. It was kind of. It was a really complex page with a lot of features and settings. And so I just said, you know, redesign this page for my SaaS to be more modern, sleek and clean and beautiful, like Airbnb. And I upload like a screenshot of what that actual page looks like. And it's kind of funny and it's like, it's like, okay, that screenshot's a great target, but like, please, like, let me know. You know, create a thing and like, let Me know where the code is so I can redesign the code. And I'm like, no, you need to make the code. And so it's like, oh, okay, yeah, happy to make the code. Do you want me to use, like, one of these languages? And it, like, lists out all these different languages and I'm like, you pick whatever coding language you'd like to, like, use. And so I was like, okay, sure, I can do that. So then it kind of did it. And then I was like, I mean, I'm so dumb, right? But I'm like, okay, how do I see this code? I'm used to lovable, where you're developing. And then there's a side panel which is a visualization of what you've just built. And it's said like, oh, yeah, yeah. You could just like, click on one of these links to index.tht.HTML or index HTML. And I guess if you click on that link inside of it, it will open up in your browser and show you what the page actually looks like inside of your browser. Again, to developers, this is probably, like, common knowledge, but I was just unaware that that was how that works. And I know, like, the whole local host thing, there's like, a local host thing and it can show you. So anyways, this is the page that it designed for based off of the other page, like, no shade. Because I obviously have no idea what I'm doing or even what I was asking it. None of the buttons click or do anything. So, like, if you did this with lovable, everything would, like, click around and actually function and work. But it did make, like, a design that closely followed the format and structure of the old one. But it does look more modern.

Jamie (7:56)

And they even use the Airbnb colors, it looks like.

Jaden (7:59)

And they did use, similar to Airbnb, kind of like light pinky, orangey colors, which is kind of cool. And like a lot of the shadowing designs now, of course, nothing is interactive. I think this is just a plain HTML page that, like, nothing moves or is interactive. But I'm able to actually get a visualization. So, like, this is a useful tool. Like, you can use it for that. Okay, so all of the application stuff out of the way as far as testing it goes. It's good at design. It's good at one shotting stuff. It's interesting. I didn't refine this at all. Like, if I had this open in the tab, I'd say, okay, now change this button to be like this, change this to be like this. And it would go And I have no doubt be able to do everything I want. And I would just have to click that link each time to like, see the update is not that much. It's not that far off from lovable. And what I will say is this is included in the $20 a month open AI tier. And right now, if you get it, it's got two times or 2x, sorry, open air tier. Yeah, it's got 2x, like how many conversations you can have with it until I think the end of April or something. So this is a great time to go try this out. Lovable, I will say, like, to do a redesign on like a site. I go spend like $200 in credits on it. Like, it can be quite expensive to go do something where this is 20 bucks. So does it have every bell and whistle and feature? Like, no, but it's, you know, if you want to get into it and try designing stuff, this is much cheaper. So, I mean, so far we'll see how much, like, usage I get out of it. But yeah, I've been pretty impressed with just the use of it so far.

Jamie (9:20)

Yeah, I mean, I still think this seems to be geared towards developers. Not so much big dummies like me who are just like entrepreneur with an idea. Like, if you want to take an idea and turn it into a product, I feel like there's still a lot of hoops to jump through. I could see there being a lot of copy and pasting and host. I don't know. I don't even know how it all works, but I love that.

Jaden (9:42)

Lovable.

Jamie (9:42)

You can just like, tell it what you want and see it and it works. So I don't know. I. I'm sure it's powerful and I'm sure it does a lot, but for me, I'm not, I'm not entirely sold yet.

Jaden (9:54)

Yep. Sam Altman talking about all of this. Yeah, and like, I would say this is definitely for developers. I'm like, like you a big dummy, like using it and testing it out to see what it's capable of and like trying to give people, like a general oversight of like, some of the things that it can do. But if you, if you're a developer, this is for you. This is a very useful tool for you. If you're not a developer, it's probably isn't the tool. Sam Altman said if you really want to be or you really want to do sophisticated work on something complex, 5.2 is the strongest model by far. This is ChatGPT 5.2, which is built into this. He said, however, it's been harder to use. So taking that level of model capability and putting it into a more flexible interface we think is going to make quite, is going to matter quite a bit. So he believes like, I mean, essentially you could do what I just did on Chat GPT, you could have just uploaded that same screenshot and said write the code and it could have made the code. So some of the differences is that like you can continue in a local project, you can connect it to Codex Web, I think you can connect it to the cloud, you can connect it to GitHub, you have branches. So you have like some of these like developer specific things built into their software. Otherwise yes, you're stuck doing what you just mentioned, Jamie, which is like you could do all of this in ChatGPT, ask it to spit out code for you and you copy and paste the code into a code viewer. There's literally websites that are just code viewers. If you paste HTML into there, it just has a panel beside it like Lovable that shows you what that code looks like. So that's like a real thing and you can do commits and you can open stuff and change branches and it shows you how many different lines of code you've written or removed. So you could toggle your terminal. Like there's a bunch of different developer things built into this that make it more useful. There's automations and skills and different stuff that you can build into it. Now if you're not a developer again I would use Lovable, but they built a good tool and I think they're trying to go up against Claude code specifically and compete with Claude code, which is something that we've written a million lines of code for AI box with cloud code, I think so far. So it's definitely an absolute beast, which is it is the most popular thing with developers. I think OpenAI does have an uphill battle to try to get adoption on Codex and I think the only way they're going to do it is if they're building custom tools like this and they're hopefully going to try to compete against Anthropic on that.

Jamie (12:11)

Yeah, for sure. And I will say though, I'm a little bit surprised that the Open Air hasn't come out with a product more visual like lovable yet because you know, that's kind of what they did in the beginning stages with. So like Mid Journey was the original like top tier AI image generator, but then OpenAI was able to create their own product that was equal or better you know, depending on who you ask to it at least competed with it. And then same thing with Runway and some of the video generation, you know, they created there. So I don't know, I'm kind of surprised they haven't come up with that yet. But again, I think like you said, this is their, their Claude code kind of competing product.

Jaden (12:51)

Yeah. And I will say, like, as far as this launch goes, it does have a whole bunch of new features that they've just added into this. So they have, they're going to allow you, like I mentioned, to do automations. Those can essentially be set up to run in the background on an automatic schedule with results placed in a queue that you can go and review after when you get back to it. And then users can also select different personalities for their agent. So it could be programmatic or empathetic, depending on like your work style, which, I mean, that seems like probably not that important of a thing. If I'm being 100% honest. I don't really care if my coding agent yells at me or if it, I don't know, whatever. If it's empathetic, like, man, that's crazy. Anyways, my coding agent is empathetic. Jaden, you are so wise and smart. How good of you. Let me help you with your code. Like, anyways, I do think that the, I do think that the Automations is a great feature. I do stuff like that with lovable all the time, but, you know, that's just whatever. So anyways, I think that this is a, this is a great feature. They're doing some good stuff. They're trying to compete with cloud code. I wish them the best of luck on all of that and we'll definitely keep you guys up to date on how they, how they are able to accomplish that. If you want to build software, you want to redesign your websites, all of that kind of stuff, go check out the school community and we have tons of awesome tutorials on how to do it if it's new to you guys. Thanks so much for tuning into the podcast. We appreciate all of you. Leave a rating and review wherever you get the show and we'll catch you guys all in the next episode.

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