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- [00:00]
A
Over the last two weeks, I've been playing with Claude Code with 4.5, and I am just blown away. It literally feels like I have like, 30 free employees and they're just working 24. 7 and I'm paying them, like, $40 a day. It's crazy. It's almost like everyone is using the yellow Pages and you're like, dude, just use Google. I built this tool that tells you the problems in your relationship and how to solve them. And it was scary. I'm realizing, like, I have a software company here that I just dreamed up out of nowhere. There will be no programmers, not in the way that we understand them, in two or three years. The moat for software used to be that it's very expensive to hire them, and now it's basically free. And so your moat has to come from something else because I just don't see them being very good businesses in the long term.
- [01:00]
B
Foreign. Welcome to the show.
- [01:09]
A
Great to be here, dude. Big fan.
- [01:11]
B
Good to. Good to see you again. I. We've spent, like, a good amount of time over the last, like, six months or so, which has been really nice. You've been kind enough to invite me to a couple different things that are. Were really just really fun events. So I'm really glad that we get to take this relationship to the pod. I love the facial hair and the haircut. You look great.
- [01:33]
A
Thanks, man. Thank you. I've been growing it out. You know why I grew out facial hair?
- [01:37]
B
Why?
- [01:38]
A
I had Chat GBT do an analysis. I. I put my face into pro and I said, I want you to look. Look smacks me. And it told me to grow a beard. And now I'm refining the mustache length versus the beard length and dialing it all in. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's pretty crazy how much of my life is now AI automated.
- [01:58]
B
That's really interesting. I got to. I got to do that. I've done that for coloring. So, like, you know, I'm wearing these greens and these browns because apparently that's like, good for my hair color, which has a little bit of red and brown whatever in it. But I have not asked it to look. Looks max me like that. So I'm down, dude.
- [02:15]
A
I mean, for beard grooming alone, like, I have a little blank spot where I can't grow. And so it was like, oh, take a tiny amount of tinted gel and just put it over there. And I was like, oh, my God, I don't have the spot anymore. And then it was like, oh, you want to cut your beard in this particular way, and it's, it's unreal. I'm so, I'm so excited to tell you about all the weird little automations I've built because most of them have been in my personal life and then there's a bunch of other ones that are, that are work. But man, it's so fun.
- [02:42]
B
What's the next one on your mind? Like, what are you. What do you want to tell me about? What are you working on? What are you thinking about?
- [02:48]
A
So I would say about a year and a half ago, two years ago, I got obsessed with replit and it was like seeing the future, but it was using like a palm trio, right? Not an iPhone. And I found that it was. I mean, it was so exciting to just be able to say what you want and manifest it and have something come out that worked, but it was always impaired in some way or it didn't work or it'd be in a bug loop. And so I kind of put vibe coding aside and mostly focused on Lindy and more kind of traditional AI agents and stuff over the last year and a half. But over the last two weeks I've been playing with Claude Code with 4.5 and I am just blown away. I feel like I have $100,000 a month payroll of engineers working for me 24 7. And it's really confirming, like, I have this whole thesis that basically all the tools are going to go away over time and it'll increasingly just be a single command line and then eventually it'll be a single voice that you interact with. And Claude code, because it's so extensible and can access your system and configure things and run mcps. I'm just finding. I'm using it for almost everything now, work wise. And I'm just blown away. And so the thing I've been hacking on is me and my girlfriend were talking about how nice it would be to have like a. A GPT that's trained on our relationship. And so I asked, I said, look, if you were a therapist and you wanted the best picture of a couple, what would you want? And so it listed this huge, like, it was like 20 different tests, like multiple choice tests and inventories. And so I just went to Claude and I built this tool that basically I called it Deep Personality.
- [04:35]
B
And.
- [04:35]
A
And it does a deep analysis on your personality and your relationship and then it tells you the problems in your relationship and how to solve them. And it was scary. Like, we sat down and we read it out together. And we were laughing because it predicted every single fight that we have in our relationship. So I, I've just been loving that and I'm actually releasing that to the public really soon. Um, so I'm excited to do that. But dude, I'm just having so much fun building.
- [05:02]
B
That's awesome. Okay, so I want to talk about this thing that you built, but let's back up to just the Opus 4.5 thing. It is such a moment. And there are some people like you that just get it and just know that we've just reached this new level. And then I think, think there's like most of the world, even people who are really into tech and AI, that just have not felt it yet. And it's so interesting how long it takes for people to catch up.
- [05:24]
A
It feels like we've, we've achieved AGI or ASI in programming and it's just the first bastion of that. And so I think you get two different archetypes of programmers. Those that lean into it and love it and realize this, that they've given up on the fact that they need to program themselves and now they're just kind of an architect or an engineer and they're excited. And then the other archetype I meet is there's a good opt in Sinclair quote that hits on this. It's never expect a man to understand something that his paycheck depends on him not understanding. And I feel like a lot of people are just kind of in denial. But I think Dario is correct. There will be no programmers, you know, not in the way that we understand them in two or three years.
- [06:16]
B
It's so interesting how fast it happened. And also I think even the there's this interesting thing happening with Gemini 3 is out. ChatGPT 5.2 is out. And those models are good and they're really smart. And sometimes I actually use them for a really hard bug fix that Opus four. Five can't get. But it's wild how Anthropic seems to have figured out how to simultaneously max the engineering brain of this thing. And also it's human empathy, sort of like common sense ness. Like I think a lot of the models, as they get better at programming, they've got worse at other things and that has held them back from being this sort of general purpose engineer. And Anthropic just figured it out in a way that it OPUS is just this sort of ergonomic human like thing that also doesn't get lost in bugs and just builds and builds and builds and builds and I've been noticing for myself. I'm curious if you feel this.
- [07:18]
A
I have to like, I have to
- [07:19]
B
block Claude because I'm spending more time on Claude than maybe I would on X or like whatever. Like I'm, I'm, I, I'm not doing my other stuff because I can't stop being like one. One more prompt, bro. One more prompt.
- [07:32]
A
A hundred percent, dude. It's funny you mentioned Gemini 3 because you know, there's this hilarious cycle that you're very familiar with. Every quarter you look on X and suddenly all the, all the frontier models start releasing the new version and, and it's like mind blown emoji, they cooked with this one, blah blah, blah. And I've seen a lot of them and don't get me wrong, they've been getting better. But I tried Gemini 3 and I used it to build the first version of this app and it is incredible. But the tooling is just not as good. It doesn't sound right, it doesn't feel right to use. And I ultimately just switched Claude code and Claude code was so, so much better at understanding my intent and doing long run tasks. Like I feel like it can do. If I gave it enough instructions it could work for four hours and keep going. And dude, I'm like, I'm with you. I, I've never been this excited about work. My, when I think about like originally, I don't know if people know my background, but originally I was a web designer and my happy place was headphones on Photoshop and you know, CSS front end. But I would always get so frustrated because from the moment that I produce the style sheet and the HTML, I can't do the follow through, I can't execute the web app. And now I feel like I can really move at the speed of thought like some. There's a great tweet by a guy, he said, I finally feel like AI enables me to move at the speed of my adhd. And I feel that. So I've actually been, I'm, I'm someone who sleeps nine hours a night and I wake up to pee at like four in the morning and I just get out of bed. Cause I'm so excited to work on this and, and it just feels like I'm, I literally feels like I have like 30 free employees and they're just working 247 and I'm paying them like $40 a day. It's crazy.
- [09:27]
B
It's crazy. This is actually one of my predictions for 2026 that I think you're an interesting case for is I think the undersung group of people that are going to be most affected and empowered by this era of new software with Opus 45 are designers. And there's this group of designers. So I think you're in this category. There's someone that works for me, our creative lead, our creative director, Lucas, where they're like, I've been able to make beautiful things for forever, but I've always, as soon as I got to coding, it wasn't something I could do and so I had to depend on all these other people to do it. And, and especially in a world where code is cheap and anyone can make a vibe coded app. Designers who know about like how to make a great experience that makes you feel something now have these superpowers where they can just like take it end to end. I think they're like, some of them are just going wild and they're so excited about it. And I think you're, you're one of those people.
- [10:18]
A
Well, even, even if you think about chunking, like so, you know, I would do a wireframe and then I would do a Photoshop mock up and maybe in the Photoshop mock up I have filler content and then I got to spend four hours doing the copywriting and I'm really just doing the same principles. Like I've read all the books and let's say that I'm writing something, I'm going to be like, how would Jason Fried put this? Or you know, what are the principles in made to stick or near IL hook? I'm just going to run that algorithm in my brain and then I'm going to have to spend a bunch of time doing it. I'm finding the copy even is perfect. And so if it just feels like I, you know, I'm somebody that doesn't like coordination problems, I don't think anyone does. But I get particularly frustrated and I usually throw my hands up and don't follow through as a result. And the way that's played out in my business life is that I love building software, but I've ultimately decided that that's my hobby because I get too frustrated doing like one on ones and product management meetings and all that stuff. And so I've delegated that and now I'm going like, wow, I don't need to delegate it. I can build automated systems to do all of these things.
- [11:30]
B
I'm curious, do you have, do you have other examples of creative people that you're hanging around with that are using AI in interesting ways.
- [11:37]
A
Let me think about that. Most people I know are still afraid or they don't know how easy it is. Like I think you know, when you talk to someone. Even for me I was like, oh, cloud code, that's intimidating. I don't know how to set up like an environment or team dev server. I don't understand any of that. And I think even like I did a workshop for fun with a bunch of my friends where I invited the team from Lindy to come to Victoria and we got a group of about 50 people together and people were blown away by how easy it was to build automations and started building all sorts of cool stuff. But what's crazy is like Claude code can build things that are a hundred times more powerful and it's easier. In my opinion it's, it's even easier than building a Lindy automation. And I, I find that that's the, the gap right now. It's almost like everyone is using the yellow Pages and you're like dude, just use Google. And they're like, oh, that's, I don't know, that's like for hackers.
- [12:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're totally right. I, so I taught this course maybe like three weeks ago for every people called Claude Code for Beginners. And it was just a one day course and, and was so cool people because it was really for people who are not technical, intimidated by the terminal from all walks of life and seeing people for the first time be like the demo app was make an expense tracker for me using my credit card data to help me like budget and whatever. The first time people just like typed that in and like waited 10 minutes and then had a full featured app that was theirs. It was just like this mind blow. I'm getting like chills thinking about it because it was just like such a beautiful, amazing moment because. And by the end of the day they had all pushed it in all these different directions that were for them. Like one person, she built this calendar view that tracked her streaks of no spending days. And then other people had, you know, it was like I'm saving for the, for a couple of big purchases, like how close am I? Like there's all these different ways that people make software their own once they have these powers that are just not possible today. And it's so cool to see them be empowered in that way.
- [13:48]
A
I kept making the mistake when I started vibe coding of being like, hey, you know, I always joke like when you start anything, you don't want to be the guy who walks into the gym and tries to deadlift £300 on day one. And I've been amazed. Like I try, I think in my early vibe coding I would just be too ambitious and then it would be a disaster. And now I'm realizing that it can meet my ambition. So for a long time I've struggled with eating email triage. I have a very, very particular way of doing it and I use Superhuman extensively, but it doesn't meet my needs. And so I've tried to build stuff in Lindy. I've tried custom triage systems with my assistant. Finally the other day I just said to Claude, code, here's my Gmail credentials, I want you to build an email triager. Here's how I want it to work. And it basically spit out a pretty simple version, web based version of Superhuman that met my exact workflow and integrated with Google. It's not perfect, but, but in like a week it's gotten to the point where I can use it every single day. And that is astounding. Like anyone who's technical knows how astounding, astounding that is and how frustrating it is to build an email client. It blows my freaking mind.
- [15:01]
B
Yeah, I think for a comparison, Superhuman spent. And you know, if you're from Superhuman, you're listening to this and I get this wrong, please correct me in the comments. But I think Superhero spent like 5 years in beta because like just getting to the point of, okay, we've, we've gotten to, we've gotten the basics done of a good email client is so hard. So I think with the thing I'm curious about this email client is. Yeah. What is the workflow that you came to that is better for you in this new world that when you're able to invent your own email client, how does it work?
- [15:32]
A
So what I, I get a lot of email. I get 200 to 300 emails a day. And so it previously was a full time job for one assistant, sometimes two. And then it was a full time job for me. And I would wake up every day feeling like, I don't know if you ever watched I Love Lucy, but there's that scene where she's in the chocolate factory and she's trying to keep up with the conveyor belt and she just gets so overwhelmed. I felt like that at all times. And so what I did that helped me a lot is I built a Lindy automation where every single email that comes in gets processed and routed. So depending on what it's related to, it gets routed if it's a. Anything that's sales or marketing or anything like that, it automatically gets archived. And then the routing probably reduced my email load by about 50% because most things I was just sending on to other people. And then what it did for a long time was it would come up with a choose your own adventure. So let's say you email me and you say, hey, Andrew, I was thinking about coming and visiting you in Victoria, or you could come to New York, or we could do a zoom. What do you want to do? It would just send me an email and say, here's who Dan is, here's what he wants. You can choose 1, 2, or 3. And I would just respond to the email with 1, 2, or 3 and the agent would send a really nice, friendly email to you. That was good. But the problem I ran into is often there's edge cases or I want to tweak what it's going to say or whatever. And then for a more complex email. So let's say you sent me an email and you said, I want to come to Victoria, but I'm thinking about one of these five hotels and do you want to do a workshop or do you want me to maybe do some public speaking or should we do a meetup or whatever? Like, let's say there's like 10 questions embedded in it. There's a. So what I did is I basically created an interface where it finds all the emails that are in my email that are not archived that require a response. It then ranks them based on priority and importance, based on time and kind of who the person is and what the request is. And then it gives me an interface where I can either multiple choice respond or I can go into Q and A mode and it can say, here's all the questions Dan asked. And I can say like, yes, no, or put in my own thing. And then it creates the draft and does it. And so it just has. It's something that I wasn't able to create using Lindy, but now I can do it in my own web app.
- [17:56]
B
That's so cool. Oh, man. I want to. I'm. I'm excited to see this.
- [18:00]
A
I'll. I'll demo. Yeah, I'll send you a demo. It's really cool.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Awesome. Well, let's go back. I want to go back to the relationship thing. So. So just to like, make sure I. I understand. So basically you, you created a, I guess, relationship coach with Claude code that, that you can load in all the context of your relationship. And then it did sort of a diagnostic about, you know, here are the. Probably the, the main conflict areas that you're able to. That sort of like predicted them without you necessarily telling it that you're able to use in your relationship or. Give me the.
- [18:34]
A
Yeah, let me.
- [18:35]
B
Help me see what it is.
- [18:36]
A
Let me screen share. Kate, can you see this?
- [18:39]
B
It's loading. I can see it.
- [18:41]
A
Great. So all this copy is written by Claude. So this started out as a bare bones multiple choice quiz and it would produce a JSON file. So where it started was I was like, man, there's all these services out there where I can do a bunch of these tests, but they cost a bunch of money or they're only available to therapists. So I just said, claude, I want you to run me through the following tests. Build a simple interface and combine them all and make sure that it's clinically validated and then spit out a JSON. So that's where we started. And me and my girlfriend both spent 40 minutes doing it. And then it's. It's bad out the analysis. So where I've gotten to today is I'm gonna sign in.
- [19:24]
B
Let me just, Let me just stop you right there. So let me go back. I want to go back to the homepage real quick. Or just open up the homepage for people. Sure you can. Yeah.
- [19:34]
A
Cool.
- [19:35]
B
So first of all, for people listening, it's a. You're on an app. It's called Deep Personality. Um, the first thing that jumps out to me is in is the headline. It says, In 25 minutes you'll understand yourself better than a therapist would after 10 sessions. That is a great headline. How did you get it to generate that?
- [19:52]
A
So I, I created a. Or I just used a prompt. I basically said, I really admire the writing of Jason Freed and Chip Heath. Chip Heath and Dan Heath wrote a book called Made to Stick. And the idea is that you have one shot to capture someone's attention. And the book is incredible for anyone who hasn't read it, Made to Stick. I still remember the first line of the book. The first line of the book is, I woke up in a bathtub full of ice and realized that somebody had taken my kidney. Right? So it's the most striking opening line ever in any book. And then it talks about the principle that, that you really only have a second to grab somebody. And so I, I used that as a prompt and I said, I want it to emotionally resonate. And so you can see in the background, it's added all these little you know, why do I, what is it? What work would energize me? What do I actually want? What makes me unique? Why do I self sabotage? So immediately we're trying to grab someone and go, oh, I relate to this problem. And then a lot of people also are a intimidated to go to a therapist, but also they feel like their therapist maybe doesn't get them. So I felt this would grab me if I saw it. From there it kind of breaks down, you know, reassurement, reassuring people. Data is encrypted, it only takes 25 minutes, no payment. And then here's all the things you can discover. So why you love the way you do. Why work? Some work drains you and others other doesn't. The gap between how you feel and how things look. And then it kind of shows a demo profile sample of what you get. So you get this crazy like 45 page AI generated analysis that breaks down all the gifts and challenges of your personality, your romantic partner, your ideal jobs, all that kind of stuff. And, and anyway, I mean this is a, this is a website that I probably would have previously paid 20, 20, $25,000 for, you know, if I had a designer work on it with me, you know, maybe, maybe less, maybe five grand if I was being really cheap. But I mean I made this website in two hours, I think just prompting while I was building other stuff. So let's go ahead and log in. So basically you do a big assessment. It's a multiple choice quiz and you can just see where, what it ends up giving you. So I've already got mine, so I'm going to go to my results. So basically you get this huge document that analyzes you in crazy levels of depth.
- [22:37]
B
Wow.
- [22:37]
A
And then below it you can see, let me show you. You can also train your personal AI. So it gives you prompts for ChatGPT.
- [22:47]
B
Whoa.
- [22:49]
A
And it basically gives you a prompt that breaks down all of your scores and stuff that'll help create like a great virtual therapist. And then it gives you these cards that kind of explain, you know, the best way to work with you. You could give your boss, you could give your partner about what you need, your attachment style. And then here's just a bunch of stats about me so you know, I'm agreeable, very low conscientiousness, which means I don't like details, very extroverted, secure attachment, blah, blah, blah. And it goes, it goes crazy deep, like even like dark triad narcissism, all sorts of, all sorts of stuff. So it's just like, it's like the most personal therapy session you can possibly do privately with yourself in 40 minutes.
- [23:39]
B
That's really cool. One thing that I, I, I kind of want is I want it to, in addition to my self assessment, give me some prompts I can give to Claude or ChatGPT to say like, based on what we've talked about how, what do you think of Dan? So I can get a little bit of like an objective, not non objective, but like another source of information in there that's not just me.
- [24:02]
A
Yeah. I mean so here's, here's my girlfriend Zoe. So I added that. And then you can say, analyze us as romantic partners or for everything. So romantic partners. And then it'll go off and do this. And this was the scary. I won't, I won't show this just because it's private. But, but this was just so wild. I mean we were, we were reading it out together and just laughing our heads off because it was like all the things we fight about perfectly laid out. And then when we put it into our GPT, we have had a few little arguments lately and it's been really helpful where I can go to it and say, oh, Zoe's upset at me about this. And the biggest problem in any partnership is people fight you on the surface about other things where it's like, you know, the classic line is like it's not about the dirty dishes, like it's about not feeling seen or it's about some childhood thing. And so where it's been really helpful is building empathy for one another and putting that in into words. So you know, we did this and I, we were having a fight and it said, I was like, what can I tell Zoe that will make her get this? And it broke it down. It was like, Andrew, you know, when you do this, it triggers this. And because of that it triggers this thing with his mom. And when he was a kid, he felt that when he did this he was unlovable. And it was like the moment I said that, she softened and we're like, oh my God, like that's crazy. So it's just pretty profound. Like we're talking about the implications for programming and this is obviously a great demonstration of its programming prowess. Prowess. But even for psychology therapy, anything. So here's, here's our relationship blueprint. How we match, where we're compatible, where it's difficult, that kind of thing. So it's just, it's super cool and I'm really excited to share this with everybody because I think it's a Super useful tool. And I'm just trying to figure out like, what do I do with this? Do I, do I use it as like a, Is it a corporate, you know, a tool you might use to figure out how to work together? Is it just about romance is about everything. Do you use it to figure out if you should hire someone? Like, I don't know yet. But I'm, I'm realizing like I have a software company here that I just dreamed up out of nowhere.
- [26:20]
B
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- [28:44]
A
Well, a great one is about 300 bucks an hour, too. If you go to, like, high end, it's very expensive.
- [28:49]
B
It's expensive. And, and, and even if it's expensive, it's not a guarantee that it's good. And I think these tools are the best way to get that kind of thing. It's not the same thing as therapy, but the best way to get that kind of thing, getting people into that pipeline that, that has ever been invented. And it's also super useful. My experience is just taking some of this stuff to therapy and being like, hey, I was talking to my best friend Claude. And like, Claude said this. If you're. Some therapists are going to be like, I hate this, you know, but at least my therapist is very open to it because I think he's realized over time that there's actually some really good insights there. And you can use it at the time that. That it happens instead of a week later. You're, like, reporting it in therapy. You can just be like, you know, okay, this thing just happened. Yeah.
- [29:39]
A
Do you have a limitless pendant?
- [29:41]
B
I don't, but some people that I work with do.
- [29:43]
A
You got to get one. I've been wearing this thing, so it's a little. I don't have it on me, but it's this little black circle and you just pop it on. I usually wear it on my jeans pockets all day. And, you know, a lot of the time I do meetings in person. Um, and I'll be working with somebody. And I have adhd, so I have very bad memory. So, like, my girlfriend, for example, will say, like, oh, there'll be something. Let's say something around the house, right? And I talk to the contractor for 20 minutes, and he says, oh, we got to do this in the plumbing or whatever. And then Zoe says, oh, what did you talk to the contractor about? And I'm literally like, I have no idea. And. And so having this perfect memory at all times has been incredibly valuable. I've done that same thing sometimes with therapy or if me and my business partner are dealing with a hard thing. I'll record it and then I'll put that into AI and say, what do you think he's getting at? Or what do you think he needs to hear in order for us to resolve this or whatever it is? And so I think over time, you, you know, you can just see this world where right now, I mean, first of all, I just want to say it's hilarious that people are getting caught up on the psychosis stuff. It reminds me a little bit of like when the iPhone came out and it didn't have an app store. And people are like, well, it's never going anywhere. Cause you can't build. You can only build web apps on it. And it's like, I think they might resolve that. You know, technology might get better. But I can see a world where we all get very comfortable wearing an Apple Watch that records everything all day, or the new OpenAI device or whatever it is.
- [31:16]
B
And.
- [31:16]
A
And suddenly we have complete context on all of our. All of our lives. And I think the challenge right now is the context window is too small. I'd say, like, Claude code does a very good job of context window management, but. And so does ChatGPT, but it loses the plot too quickly. And I'm excited when we can have a 5 million, a 10 million context window because then you're going to be able to really incorporate every conversation you've had this year.
- [31:43]
B
Yeah, I think the thing that I use for this mostly is granola. And have you used them or heard of them?
- [31:50]
A
No, I use Otter. I actually built a custom Lindy, which I'll talk about later, but for meeting notes as well. But I generally, I use Otter for recording meetings.
- [31:59]
B
Got it. The interesting thing about granola for me is, I mean, they did the whole thing where it just records everything you're in and there's no extra bot or whatever, just recording on your computer, which is really nice. But the interesting thing about Otter is it has like a really good. Pretty good AI assistant inside of it that, you know, I can put something in that's like, I did this the other day because, you know, we're at. We're at about 20 people at every. And so I'm starting to think about, okay, what does like, onboarding new employees look like and what is our handbook? And like, what is our culture and whatever. And so I just asked Granola, like, if you're going to write and handbook for new employees with here's how stuff works at every. That no one will actually say, but is like, definitely how things work. What would you write and use? Like, my last 25 meetings to do was pretty good. Like, I probably wouldn't just like put it into every employee's hand like immediately, but you have the ground truth for it to start working from. And, and so it's, it's amazing for that. It's, it's really good. Like you said, you know, if you have a real personnel issue, it's like these conversations are so difficult and you're always wondering as a CEO or any sort of leader, like, okay, how did I handle that? And is there a way I could have done better there? And, and, and maybe. And that's. So that's like the post game analysis. And then there's also the pregame analysis. Like, take a look through our previous conversations. Like, what should I think about? Or how should I, how should I handle this kind of situation? And it's, it would, you know, executive coaches are like 5k for a session or whatever, like to get someone really good. And it's so good for that. Like, I'm such a better manager than I would be because I don't have to make every, make things up all the time.
- [33:40]
A
I have two things that I think would, would. You would get a lot of value out of. I don't know if you're already doing this, but. So one is I created a custom Lindy agent that records all my meetings. So it takes meeting notes. But the most useful feature that I added was I do a lot of meetings with people that are pitching me on things or I don't know. And I have a tendency to really enjoy narcissists. I don't know why, but I really love narcissists. I'm drawn to them. And, you know, I've dealt with all sorts of interesting characters over the years in business where, you know, some psychology is probably the most important skill in business. And flagging something like covert or grandiose narcissism or a paranoid personality or someone who's being manipulative is very important. And so my Lindy agent actually texts me after a meeting if there's any red flags. So recently I had a meeting with a contractor I was working with and I was quite upset because he had said he would deliver something on a schedule and then he didn't, he didn't do it. And instead of, and I was pretty calm, but I was just holding him to account. And instead he started like, you know, you've really, you know, you were so rude and kind of, you know, really really harsh to me back back about it. And I actually left the call feeling really upset at myself. And then I got a text from my Lindy agent about a minute later and it said, hey, I just wanted to make you aware this person was using some manipulation tactics. They were gaslighting, they were reframing in this particular way and it was really helpful. And I've used that a couple times where I'm interviewing somebody and it just says, hey, this person is highly, highly, highly anxious and needy. And that's okay, but you should know that that's going to be part of working with them or whatever it is. So I found that incredibly useful. On the flip side, for employee feedback, I use Super Whisper. And so I have the action button on my phone launch Super Whisper. And I don't know if you've used it, but you can basically prompt. And I think you guys built a tool like this.
- [35:55]
B
We did.
- [35:56]
A
So I should switch to yours. But basically you can create prompts. So, you know, the most simple one is just like, hey, turn this into a good text. But I have one called a good boss. And so I basically can go into it and just be like, what the fuck? You know, you didn't do this thing you said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All the like, harsh stuff, I think, and it converts it into what a good boss would say and it just tones it down and it makes it more mature. And I found stuff like that really, really useful.
- [36:23]
B
It's the best. I love it. On the narcissism thing to go to go back there. A, that sounds awesome. B, I'm curious, you know, for myself, one thing that I've noticed which I think is sort of important because I'm. I'm currently grappling with this is sometimes I'll put it in for maybe an interpersonal situation in my personal life or in my work life. And you know, maybe I'm feeling upset about something and I've noticed that it will maybe subtly reinforce my interpretation of things and then something will happen later that is like breaks my interpretation. I'm like, oh, wow, I was thinking about that totally wrong. And then I go back to it and I'm like, what the. And it's like, oh yeah, you're totally right, like blah, blah or whatever, you know, and there's something about that that I think is an interesting. There's an interesting question of AI hygiene, right? Like when we have these things that can't. That can do some do this identification. And also it's. It's really hard Even if it's super smart, it's really, it's really hard with a limited set of information to be able to draw like lots of conclusions. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it, but it does mean there's, there's this thing of how do I hold what it's giving back to me so that I think of it in a, in a skillful way where it's like sometimes they were actually being super manipulative or you know, in my case maybe it's like there's their, they don't want to be friends with me anymore or something like that. Like it's, you know, our relationship is strained and sometimes it's like it's something else that, that a further conversation or more, more context would like, would reveal that. How have, have you noticed that and how do you deal with it?
- [38:08]
A
Well, the, you have to be very careful to your point where you can't inject any of your own opinion into the prompt. So for example, the prompt that I'm using is very much like high bar. You have to analyze every single word in this thing and you only flag it if it reaches a critical point where like I get one of these notifications maybe once every two to three months. Right. So it's a very high bar and I think it's a little bit like body language. Have you studied body language at all? So there's a, there's a, it's all about patterns. But it's like if you. I studied it a lot because I do a lot of in person meetings and stuff. And you know, really my job is to assess people and then try and figure out what they're thinking. So for example, I'm meeting with a founder and when I ask them about a certain thing in their business, they're scratching their neck a lot and they're crossing their arms and you know, getting defensive or whatever. You have to also understand their pattern of behavior in general. So for example, my dad, he just always crosses his arms all the time. So if I met with him, I can't say, oh, he's close, closed off. It would just be, he crossed his arms probably because he's a big guy and it feels good or something like that. So I think it's, it's just data, but I think over time it just as it, as the thinking models can do more and more analysis and have more and more data, I think it's just going to get better and better. And I, I'd say like, I probably wouldn't Make a higher end fire decision entirely on that. But it will often confirm a feeling.
- [39:36]
B
It's.
- [39:36]
A
It's usually like I feel like a cognitive dissonance. And then I get one of those texts and I'm like, okay, that's what's going on.
- [39:42]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I think there's also that thing about. Usually it's working from transcripts and there's a lot that's not in a transcript about how something was said or like how long the pause was between certain words or between when someone stopped speaking and someone started speaking. Like all that stuff gets lost or like what's on the person's face. Like all that kind of stuff, which I think we're getting there. And there are some models that are actually doing. They can do real time detection of emotion, which is pretty freaking cool based on your facial expression and how you say things. And they have an API. So I think you would probably be into this called Hume. And I think that's another level of. Yeah, they're crossing their arms and obviously you have to take into account what are their personal habits and what's the context of the situation. But also, yes, in general, crossing your arms, like there's something. You're closed off and, and maybe that's about this person or maybe there's something else going on and it's. It's such a fascinating world.
- [40:41]
A
I've had times where I'm depressed or anxious or vulnerable or sleep deprived or just stressed out about business and I make bad decisions usually during those times. So to me, it's like that extra buddy who's sitting there watching and maybe watching out for me a little bit. But yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I would make a lot of decisions entirely based on AI analysis. Like recently I was like, oh, can you audit this company and just look for any suspicious transactions? Like I, you know, I realized we hadn't done an audit on it and, you know, hadn't been paying attention to the company or whatever. And I made the mistake of prompting it as if I was suspicious. And it was like, oh, there's like mass fraud in this company. There's been $90,000 of fraud. And then I looked at it and it was like, it was like an employee has purchased a bunch of Starbucks gift certificates. And it's like, no, a bunch of employees went to Starbucks and bought coffee. You know, I prompted it the wrong way. So you got. Yeah, you gotta be really careful with this stuff.
- [41:40]
B
Do you have any, like, Claude code workflow Things that you've, you've picked up over the last couple weeks that have helped you or things that you've learned not to do.
- [41:49]
A
I would say the thing I'm playing with a lot right now is skills. You know, skills basically for those that don't know, you can kind of say like, whenever you do a thing like this reference, this skill. So a skill might be copywriting. So some of the principles I talked about earlier, I've been thinking about turning into a skill where every time I ask it to write copy, it just knows all the books I like and the tone I like and that kind of stuff. I'm trying to think of what else. I mean, the biggest thing I've done is I've created a sync across all my computers so that a cron job runs on every Mac that I have. And just make sure that if I open CLAUDE code, it gets back to where I was on any computer. And that's been huge. And then I've been using all sorts of MCPs and stuff. I mean, MCP, like I find it, it's still early and some of the integrations suck and they're too slow. But you can really see how it's going to be this kind of tentacle monster that touches all of your software. And, and what I wonder about is like, for example, like, why do we need software at all? Eventually, like, CLAUDE will be capable of building anything you need and probably doing anything you need, and so will ChatGPT. And so ultimately I really wonder what, what software continues to exist versus just yet built on the fly for you?
- [43:13]
B
It's a really good question. Obviously I think the rules are changing a lot on the skills topic. Do you. Have you tried our compound engineering plugin?
- [43:23]
A
No, I just read about it yesterday actually. But I was like, I don't do a lot of like pull requests and stuff because I'm just working by myself. So I was like, it's probably overkill and I'm gonna mess my system up, but I'd love to hear about it.
- [43:33]
B
You should check it out. I think you can use it for specific things that won't mess your system up. So specifically, for example, as you're getting more complicated in your app, um, planning is really important. And the plan function in this thing is like, it spits off like five different sub agents that, that research all the best practices for the problem that you're working on and research your current code base and like find other code examples from like open source and kind of puts it all together into this Big plan that has, you know, technical requirements and acceptance criteria and all that kind of stuff that helps kind of keep it on track. As you're getting. It's overkill first for, you know, the first 20 hours of a project. But as you're getting into a big code base, it can be, it can be really helpful.
- [44:15]
A
So it'd be like, it'd be like, keep security in mind, write tests that kind of. Oh, that's cool. I'm definitely going to check that out.
- [44:21]
B
Check that out. And yeah, I think to your point on like, future software stuff, my, my, like, quick, quick take is that there are these. There's a new architecture for software that I've been calling agent native architectures. And you can think of that as being. Every piece of software is just Claude code in a trench coat where when you are using an app, you press a button in the UI that's just kicking off an agent to go do the thing in the background. And the really interesting thing about that kind of software is that every feature is a prompt. And if every feature is a prompt, then it's much easier for users to customize their features and it's much easier for developers to make their software more flexible and grow. Uh, because, you know, you can be like, okay, like I'm seeing a lot of people are customizing our software in this particular way with these kinds of prompts. I'm just gonna build that as a feature. And really all I'm doing is taking the prompts that they've created and pushing it into main and pushing it out to everybody else. So there's this whole new kind of like more flexible way of building software that's, that's really agent native, where anything that a user can do in an app, the agent can do. And once you're there, it just opens up this whole new thing. And so that's, that's kind of like all we're doing in 2026 is like Agent native architectures. And I think that's, that's a big thing. And then. Yeah, which. What needs to be software versus what, what should just be something that ChatGPT does is another really interesting open question.
- [45:49]
A
You guys are building in production, and I know you guys have a whole suite of software. What are you guys finding is the current gap at 4.5? What are you hoping for 5 or 6 to be able to do?
- [46:01]
B
I don't think that, I don't think that we know what the gap is yet because we are just like, holy shit, we're just flying I would guess one of the bottlenecks right now is you can produce so much code that the bottleneck is reviewing what it built to make sure it works. And a lot of what we do is, you know, today, for example, I have. I'm building this, like, personal re reader app to help me read better. And it's an Asian Innov app. It's super cool. I built it myself in between meetings. Like, it's. It's the best. And. And I have all these, like, little things that, as I'm using it every day, I'm like, I want this to be better. So I have a Apple Note with, like, a bunch of little things. And I was at breakfast today, and before I started eating, I just, like, popped off a bunch of cloud codes on my phone to, like, do like 15 different.
- [46:53]
A
You just ssh into your computer. What do you do?
- [46:56]
B
So we have that. But the Claude code, like, Claude and the cloud mobile app, there's a code section and you can just like, talk to it and say, hey, I want you to go do this. And it will pull down your repo and start it in a virtual machine and then, like, create a pull request for you.
- [47:13]
A
Oh, shit, I haven't tried that yet.
- [47:15]
B
You should check that out. It's pretty cool. Um, it's. I think what you have is actually. It's actually a bit better, but for quick things that you want to do on your phone without, like, messing around, it's. The cloud app is actually pretty good. So I spun up a bunch of parallel things to fix a bunch of little bugs that I found and little features that I wanted changed. And I finished breakfast and I was like, cool, now I'm going to test all this. But that's a lot of work to test everything and to make sure each thing is done right. And so, especially for a mobile app, it's hard to wire that up where Claude tests itself, but I think Claude is good enough to do it. So I think the biggest. The big bottleneck is closing the loop on everything that you build so that by the time it reaches a human, it's pretty much good. And. And it's working as intended. And it's. It's. You know, it used to be the bar was, can it get to the human without any errors? And that's, like, basically solved. And now it just has no errors. But the next bar is, does it actually work well? And that's a. I think that's still an open question.
- [48:16]
A
Yeah, it seems like the big problems that I notice are like, like, Right now I'm using Supabase and Vercel and it's just like there's things that you still need to go and configure. And I do wonder if over time Anthropic can just launch their own database product and their own hosting product and then you just have this one sandbox you work in and it does absolutely everything. That would be really incredible.
- [48:44]
B
I think they probably will. One thing that I've, I love is I've been using ChatGPT's Atlas browser. If you've never tried it, I love
- [48:51]
A
it, I use it every day.
- [48:52]
B
Isn't it sick? And so for anything where you're like, oh, I'm configuring Vercel, I just open up the agent mode and I'm like, go do this thing. And I just never touch a settings dashboard ever again. And it's so good.
- [49:03]
A
It's amazing. It's so cool.
- [49:04]
B
Alice is amazing. Everyone should try it. I know you have a couple of more automations to show. I'd love to see them.
- [49:11]
A
Sure. Here, let me you see my window.
- [49:16]
B
I can.
- [49:18]
A
Have you seen the movie Clueless?
- [49:21]
B
No.
- [49:22]
A
So Clueless. It's like this rich girl and there's this funny scene where she goes into her wardrobe and she has this computer and the computer automatically matches all her outfits and stuff like that. And I basically created the modern AI enabled version of that. So it's called Personal Stylist.
- [49:44]
B
Amazing.
- [49:44]
A
Let me pull it up here.
- [49:50]
B
You're really good at doing this for
- [49:52]
A
your personal life, dude. It's really where I use it the most. So one problem I've had is like so many guys, you know, you want to look good, you want to dress well. I don't understand color theory. I don't know what fits, I don't know what looks good. And so probably four years ago I was newly single, I got divorced and I was like, I gotta, gotta look good. And so I hired a personal stylist which is actually not that expensive. It was like a couple thousand bucks. And this lady basically made a bunch of outfits and sent me stuff. But it was a total pain in the butt because she's shipping me stuff that doesn't fit. You know, I'm not choosing any of it. And so what I did is I basically created this AI automation so you can see every day at 7 in the morning it goes to, it goes and checks the weather in Victoria and then it generates outfit recommendations and it has access to a Google sheet called Andrew's Wardrobe and you can See in here I basically just took photos using Claude and then had it turn it all into a CSV file. So you can see these are all the, all the clothing that I own. And then what it'll do is it goes to Nano Banana. It creates four outfits. It goes to Nano Banana and then it generates a rendering of those outfits. So let me see if there's one. Here's, here's one with me. So I basically give it reference images of me and then it sends me this. I get this as a text using Twilio and it says wear this watch and this outfit and here's the different clothes. And it has really helped me up my game. It's been, it's been awesome. And it's just one of those really dumb fun things that, you know, everyone kind of goes, man, I wish, I wish I could do that. And now it's like, it's like Uber. It's like everyone has a personal driver now. Well, everybody has a personal stylist if they want one. So that's been a really fun one.
- [51:47]
B
That is amazing. And I will say you dress well.
- [51:52]
A
Thank you.
- [51:53]
B
Yeah, like, I like ChatGPT though. ChatGPT's got, got your wardrobe, got your face. You're, you're. Yeah, it's, it's amazing.
- [52:01]
A
Yeah. I've also got a custom GPT and so I can just take a photo of like hey, what goes with these jeans? Or you know, tweak this outfit or tell me it'll be like, oh, you should French tuck that shirt or do these things. So that's been, that's been really, really cool. Another one that I created that I absolutely love. So you don't have kids, right? No, those of, those of the listeners with kids will relate to this but my kids school, it is a full time job keeping up with the emails. There's emails about, you know, trips and things I need to sign and lunch on certain days and all this stuff and I really get overwhelmed by it. And so as part of my email automation, I basically have it, uh, ingest all those emails and then it texts me and says, hey, heads up, you know, Peter needs a packed lunch tomorrow and here's the link to sign the, you know, the, the field trip notice and then it also puts it all in my calendar and having it just automatically get added to our parenting calendar and everything being organized has just been incredible. Uh, and it's one of those things where you probably don't get it but like if you talk to a parent, they're just like, shut up and take my money. Like, how do I do this? Amazing. How is.
- [53:12]
B
Okay, so now I'm, I'm. I think we can get a little bit philosophical. How has this changed your whole view of the world and of software and of businesses? So a couple things that I think I'm interested to hear from you. One is, you know, as we've talked about this over the last six months, I think this is actually the first time we've talked about it where you seem so energized and so psychedelic. And most of the other times I think you've always been excited about it, but you've also been anxious about it. Like, how does this affect the world and how does this affect business? And are things changing in a way that our job's going to exist in five years? More or less. So how do you feel right now about that? How is your position, how's your thinking evolved? And then how does that layer down into software businesses and how you think software businesses are going to exist or work? And, and what that means, for example, for Tiny, where you own a bunch of software businesses. So I'd love to hear your take on all that.
- [54:17]
A
So, yeah, I think I talked to you maybe a year ago. I called you and was like, dude, like, are you freaking out or what? And I think I was really struggling with the idea that all knowledge work could go away or radically change. And so I carry two different feelings. One, as a creative person and entrepreneur, I'm incredibly energized and excited. I feel like I'm more competent and I can create so much more and I can communicate better. And, and so I'm very excited about building things and how we can use these, these tools in our businesses. But it definitely changes things in terms of buying businesses. So we have really slowed down on buying technology companies and software companies. I think unless you have a distribution moat or a hardware moat or something like that, I think most software businesses are just thin wrappers. Like if your business is like a database call or an AI call, I just, I think it's not that it's going to go to zero. It's just it. There's going to be a lot of competition. And I think about it like pizza restaurants, right? So pizzerias, are they. Are they. Well, let's say that somebody makes a machine that can create incredible pizza, the world's best pizza, and anyone can buy it for $10,000. Are there never going to be any more pizza restaurants? And will the world of the pizza business go away? No. Consumers will benefit because there's going to be amazing pizza everywhere. But business owners will really struggle because the margins will go down, right? Maybe you used to be able to charge 10 or 15% margins on a slice of pizza, but when the cost of the pizza goes way down and the quality goes way up, the consumer benefits. And the business owner, you know, their margin goes to like 1% or 2% basically. And, and so I think that's gonna happen all over the place. I like, I remember like a year and a half ago people were getting very excited about all these like calorie tracker apps. Like, you know, kid Vibe codes a calorie tracker and makes a million dollars a month. And it's like, that's fine, like he picked up some pennies in front of the steamroller, but what happened in the next three months, everyone who could just copied him. And the moat for software used to be that there's only so many programmers. Programming is hard to learn and takes a long time to learn and it's very expensive to hire them and now it's basically free. And so your moat has to come from something else. You have to have a brand or distribution mechanism or hardware lock in or something because I just don't see them being very good businesses in the long term.
- [57:04]
B
I think that makes sense. I really like the, I like the pizza analogy especially because like what constitutes great pizza is also sort of up for debate, you know. And yeah, maybe it can make great Neapolitan pizzas, but maybe you're, you like deep dish. And so there's like endless complexity to the economy and so it doesn't get rid of pizza restaurants. But yeah, it sort of changes the landscape. How do you think about that? You know, I think probably a lot of people listening own software businesses or are five or 10 years into software businesses that are not necessarily AI native. How do you think about for, for your own businesses, how to face that future where things change like this?
- [57:46]
A
Well, I think it's a little bit like owning a water powered factory. You know, if you have something that's powered by, you know, a windmill, you better convert it to electricity pretty quick otherwise you're going to be out of business. And it's really hard to do that because you have a lot of sunk cost. The beauty of a software business is you can actually replace a lot of the human work. But the question is where do the humans go and who are the consumers that are going to be buying all this pizza and all this software and how do they make money and in, you know, historically the way that it's worked is that the bar just gets raised. So in the pizza analogy, pizza, you know, pizza shops all look the same, but someone's really creative and they spend more money and they make an amazing space and they get on TikTok and you know, they're able to kind of build something different. And the standard of what people expect when they enter a restaurant just goes up. So that's certainly a possibility. But the problem is that AI compounds in all industries at the same time. And so what I worry about is not so much long term. Like I think in 20 years we're going to be fine. What I worry about is another great depression where you have suddenly all these white collar employees getting laid off from previously very lucrative jobs like lawyers, you know, probably not doctors, but maybe doctors, anything that, that is knowledge work, programmers. And where do they go? I think a lot of them will probably go to blue collar work, right? So maybe you go start an H Vac company because people need air conditioning. But what happens in H Vac when a hundred people all start an H Vac company in your city at the same time because they've all been laid off? Well, the margins go to zero or they go very low. So again they'll have jobs. And then you start thinking about robotic automation and you can go down a whole other rabbit hole. So I'm not there yet. I'm. But I am thinking about how do you protect yourself from that? And I really believe that if you have money to invest, I think owning compute is probably. Our computer power is probably one of the only ways to own a toll bridge to the future. So I think part of the reason I feel calmer is I've also made a bunch of investments in frontier models and in data centers and that kind of stuff. So I think my, my butthole relaxed a little bit. But you know, I was pretty, I was pretty freaked out and I think a lot of people should be pretty freaked out. But you know, I live in the Pacific Northwest and there's, everybody knows there's going to be a super thrust earthquake some point in the next 50 to 100 years. We live with that every single day. But there's very few people I know who are obsessing over it. Um, you know, in my basement I've got earthquake stuff. I've got a Starlink dish, I've got food. And so what I've realized about AI is all you can really do is educate yourself and prepare and then not worry about it. And so that's kind of what I've been doing and just enjoying it.
- [60:58]
B
For someone who, like, maybe has some money to invest but doesn't. Maybe doesn't have access to a lot of private deals that you might have access to, what are ways to buy, for example, computer?
- [61:09]
A
So I actually just made a large investment in a company called Iron in January. And Iron is just a. It's actually a bitcoin mining company that had a shitload of data centers and power, and they realized, oh, my God, this is really valuable for AI and so they pivoted to AI and so I was able to buy it at a valuation where it was being valued like a bitcoin miner. Not very highly, I think. I invested at a $10 share price and now it's at 35 bucks, and recently it was at 70. So that I look at as a bit of a hedge that anyone can access. And there's a lot of those. A lot of those businesses. You just got to be careful to figure out which ones are real and which ones are kind of made up.
- [61:55]
B
I love that. Andrew, I love hanging out with you. I always learned so much from. From our conversations. Thank you for sharing and we'd love to have you on again soon.
- [62:05]
A
Yeah, that was awesome, dude. Anytime. Oh, my gosh, folks, you absolutely, positively have to smash that, like, button and subscribe to AI and I. Why? Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard, but instead of gold, it's filled with pure, unadulterated knowledge bombs. About ChatGPT Every episode is a rollercoaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat craving for more. It's not just a show, it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. So do yourself a favor. Hit like Smash, subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely, hopelessly in love with you.