← AICPA Personal Financial Planning (PFP)
AICPA Personal Financial Planning (PFP)
Advancing CPA Financial Planning: Insights from Leaders Brooke Salvini and Oscar Vives {PFP Section}
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to AICPA's Personal Financial Planning Podcast. This is Kerry Sinnett. On behalf of the AICPA Personal Financial Planning Division, the home for professional personal financial planners, we're happy to bring you thought leadership from experts in tax, retirement estate practice management, investment risk management, and client relationships. Be sure to Visit us@aicpa.org to find more resources and tools designed to help you deliver premier financial planning to your clients. Today we have Brooke and Oscar with us, both heads of important committees at the aicpa. Brooke Salvini, you head the Executive Committee for Personal Financial Planning. Will you tell us a little bit about you and then we'll do the same for Oscar in just a moment?
- [00:56]
B
Yes. Hi, Kerry. Well, thank you so much for inviting me here to this podcast. I have been the chair of the Executive Committee, the PFP Executive Committee, for the last three years. My term will be over at the end of May. It's been a real honor to get to lead the section as part of the Executive committee, and it's been a dynamic time. I think we've made a lot of progress and so I'll look forward to sharing that as we continue to chat today.
- [01:34]
A
Awesome, Brooke, thank you so much. Oscar, tell us a little bit about you.
- [01:40]
C
Yeah, well, CPA financial planner here. I recently made a move in 2024 to join Leave PNC bank and join Sensible Money. So that. That's been a shift. I've been doing this on and off since 2007, and I say that because I worked in the financial planning industry while I was going through college. And similar to Brooke, it's been a pleasure to really lead this section. We have so many talented professionals that are behind the scenes that a lot of people don't know. They're doing a lot of work on behalf of the association. And, and I'm just grateful to have been working with these people for the last three years. But I've been on the committee for three years before that, so it's been six years for me.
- [02:24]
A
And Oscar, you chair the PFS Credential committee, is that right?
- [02:30]
C
That is correct. And for those that are not so familiar with what we do, we are in the process of overseeing everything relating to the PFS credential, which is provided only to CPAs, and that includes the regulation part of it, as well as the education and the body of knowledge. And I'm sure we'll get into some of that here as the podcast continues.
- [02:56]
A
Excellent. Sounds great. So today I'm really looking for perspective from both of you. I'm excited to hear what you think is really important that's happened in 2024 and what you're looking forward to into the future 2025 and beyond. Brooke, please share your perspective. What's some important things that you see happening in the industry?
- [03:24]
B
Well, one of the most important things that happened for as CPA financial planners is the fact that the new CPA exam launched back at the beginning of 2024 and for the very first time it it included the topic of personal financial planning on the tax and planning discipline exam. So that is extremely important because now universities will evaluate their curriculum and they will be adding personal financial planning in a variety of manners. It's also going to spark the imagination of accounting students and show them that there are a variety of career paths. It's not just audit and tax, but personal financial planning can be an independent career path and it should also, I hope, spark the imagination of all the firm leaders and encourage them and make them think about the fact that they need to have a career path for young emerging success CPA financial planners. So in my mind that was a very significant development in 2024 that is going to impact our profession for the long term.
- [04:46]
A
And Brooke, I'd love to just peel back the curtain a little bit. I'm sure that's not something that happened overnight. Can you describe how long it took to get PFP onto the CPA exam? Financial planning on the CPA exam is game changing.
- [05:05]
B
Yes, it is game changing. I I know personally that I've worked on it for at least 10 years and I'm sure that others worked on it before me. But I remember in 2014 when they were reviewing the blueprint, at that time I was on the Cal CPA PfP State Committee and we were writing questions and trying to influence and at that time get PFP on the exam. So it was a long road. And then this time around, maybe three years ago, as they started to review the blueprint, they, they gathered some volunteers to do focus groups and you know, just talk about personal financial planning and why it is such a critical area that should be covered on the CPA exam. Because, you know, we are our clients, trusted advisors and they are asking us these questions. They want us to weigh in, they want us to guide us. So again, probably the most significant development in quite a while.
- [06:21]
A
I agree and probably the CPA financial planning industry and profession agrees with you. So thank you for that hard work for your service and everybody else that was involved in getting the financial planning onto the CPA exam. Is there Anything else that has happened so far that you want to talk about?
- [06:42]
B
Well, just following in that vein, I do want to thank the AICPA for the support that they've given the CPA financial planner over the last several years. I really feel that there's the recognition by AICPA that it is so important and helping develop the tools and the resources to help encourage our other colleagues that aren't practicing this area that may want to incorporate personal financial planning into their work. So I feel that the support is there like it was never there in the past. So just thank you for that, Brooke.
- [07:23]
A
That is so nice of you to say. And I love working at the aicpa, but it's a member organization. And so it's really the members and the industry itself supporting itself and each other. And so volunteers like you and Oscar make this work and some of the staff that are there to kind of keep the buses running on time. But really it's the entire industry and the goals that we collectively have that are then executed through the aicpa. So thank you for being a leader in that. Oscar, you were on the PFS credential committee first, will you describe what the PFS credential is and then tell us what you think is significant that has happened in 2024 from your point of view?
- [08:17]
C
Well, so the PFS credential is a financial planning designation that is offered to only people that are CPAs. So it's already a high bar to entry and, you know, one of the major accomplishments. You talk about some of the things that we accomplished, the AICPA exam and incorporating planning, as we just talked about that major. And in regards to our credential committee, we simplified the pathways to earn the designation where we have kind of the entry point way to earn a designation and a different way to do it if you're more experienced. So that was fairly significant for us on the credential committee.
- [09:04]
A
Well, and those two pathways can be found on the AICPA website. So just check there. And really, to sum up what Oscar was saying, there new people coming in, we have exams broken down so that you can take it piecemeal in order to get your credential. But if you're already an experienced financial planner and a cpa, there's essentially an express route to be able to get the credentials so that you can show the general public, I am a designated credentialed financial planner and cpa. So Oscar, thanks for your work in that area. What do you see coming up in 2025 or beyond? That is going to be important to you.
- [09:48]
C
So I think we all are seeing this, but obviously it's the rapidly changing technology environment. I know we have the advent of artificial intelligence and the big question that we're all trying to address is how do we incorporate all the various tools that are starting to come out at the speed of light and, and how do we do it in a way that is also compliant from a regulatory perspective?
- [10:15]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. That is such a good perspective. Oscar, in your own practice, how are you integrating this new technology and both the benefits and the obstacles that it presents?
- [10:32]
C
So I will say I'm spending a lot of time meeting with various vendors. Right. And so that's kind of a process of its own. And so that's step number one. Step number two is say okay, what are people offering vendors that can reduce maybe a lot of the back office work that would take more manual labor and help get us to the solution quicker so that ultimately we spend more time holding our clients hands, which is what they want us to do, doing.
- [11:09]
A
Those higher level functions and those high touch interactions with the clients that really deliver the significant values. When I hear you say that. Is that right? Brooke, how about for you, what are you seeing in 2025 and beyond for our industry and the outlook?
- [11:27]
B
One thing that I am seeing that kind of circles back to talking about the PFS designation is, is the fact that plenty of our colleagues are actually providing some personal financial planning services to their clients, yet they may not identify as being a CPA financial planner. And we really want to help them realize that yes, you are providing PFP services. You are a CPA personal financial planner. And so that is something that I think with the experience pathway to the PFS is, you know, a really great addition. And we, I, I don't want to jump in your area, Oscar, but excites me the PFS live days that we've been offering in 2024 and I believe we'll be continuing to offer going forward. And so I won't talk about it too much, but I'll just encourage anybody who is interested in adding that designation to check our website for more information. But something that is coming up. Well, we've been working on reviewing and updating the PFP standards that really started much earlier in 2024, but it's a long process and it will continue into 2025. So that will be, you know, an important, I was going to say exciting, yes, exciting, but actually just very important to keep our standards current and relevant and addressing the way the profession evolves. And so there will be more, you know, coming out this year regarding that.
- [13:33]
A
Can I ask you a question about that? So, as an industry, we're really guided by our standards. And one of the surveys that came out showed that well over 80,000 CPAs are doing some form of financial planning. And if that's the case, should they be taking a look at those standards to guide the kind of financial planning that they're doing?
- [14:00]
B
Yes, yes, I do think they should be. And so awareness is very important. And we will get to the point in the near future where the standards will be available for comment and review, and we will have those conversations and we will also have the resources and kind of awareness plan so that CPAs will recognize and realize that, yes, I need to check in on the PfP standards. And they're, you know, they're nothing that you wouldn't expect. It just kind of provides the framework, you know, what exactly is personal financial planning? And some very basic good practices of documentation. I think, really the things that are pretty normal for us as CPAs. So that will, hopefully they will be issued in 2025.
- [14:59]
A
Awesome. And Brooke, one of the things that you alluded to is that we're doing financial planning. And that could look and correct me if I'm wrong here. As simple as answering a question about whether or not somebody should convert a Roth ira. That's financial planning, right? Or if a business owner is maybe deciding between doing a C Corp or an S Corp or even that structure, would that fall under the umbrella of financial planning as well?
- [15:33]
B
Well, you mentioned business. So business. Business isn't necessarily personal financial planning, but business and personal can be very integrated. So that could be a gray area.
- [15:44]
A
That makes a lot of sense. And so I think that is such a good question that can be answered through the standards and the resources available on the AICPA website to make sure, okay, this is financial planning. Here's what it should look like that I'm doing. And of course, con connected with that is now, how do I provide an engagement? How do I make sure I'm being compensated appropriately for doing this? Financial planning, engagement and having the tools to understand. Here is a new service feature that I'm already doing, but maybe not charging for. Maybe I'm just answering questions. But really it could be a whole new service menu where you provide comprehensive.
- [16:29]
B
Financial planning and helping clients see the value that you're providing and just recognizing and realizing that they are getting more than maybe they realize they're getting. And that, yes, it is a service that The CPA should be compensated for. And something that you brought up, Kerry. You use the words engagement and service and you know, you don't need to have a big expansive engagement to be providing personal financial planning services. So that's something that we'll talk more about with the standards.
- [17:09]
A
Awesome. Oscar, I think you wanted to share your perspective.
- [17:14]
C
Yeah. The other thing that I wanted to add to that is when I talk to a lot of CPAs that are maybe a bit afraid of holding themselves out to be financial planners, oftentimes one of the major obstacles is they say, I'm not an investment person. And there's this connotation that you have to be some investment guru in order to hold yourself out to be a financial planner. And I just want to debunk that because there's so many more aspects of financial planning than the investment part. And while that is a part of it, it's not the only part. So I just, I just want to speak to people that maybe that's the roadblock.
- [17:53]
A
Yeah. Talk more about that.
- [17:55]
C
Well, if we want to get into it. So, number one, I think there are a lot of planners within the AICPA that charge a flat fee and outsource investment management, for example. So that's, that's. If that's not a responsibility that you want to add, you can certainly outsource it, but you can do all the other planning parts of it. You could also hire somebody to manage that on your firm's behalf, so you don't have to totally outsource it. You can kind of bring it in house through a third party service. So there are many different ways to do it. And if you eventually wanted to manage assets yourself, we have tons of resources that could help you get up to speed on anything that you feel you're lacking.
- [18:43]
B
Oh, I was just going to add. We are actually working on updating our roadmap because we have had a roadmap. What we realized is that the roadmap was maybe only describing one journey to personal financial planning. And we are recognizing that that's not comprehensive enough. So our new roadmap is hopefully going to resonate with more of you. So if you happen to be working for a CPA firm and you'd like to start talking to management about maybe expanding services, you'll see yourself in the roadmap and maybe where you could dial into the resources. If you are a tax professional and you want to just start to add some planning, like Oscar was saying, not investment management or any of that, you will recognize yourself on the Roadmap. And if you happen to be very enthusiastic and want to start your own registered investment advisory firm, there will be a path on the Roadmap for you to see what is involved in that. So we're very excited about the new upgraded roadmap that is going to be coming out in 2025 and it's going to connect with everybody on their journey. And that is just overall in general. One of the things that the Section really wants to do is to be there for each and every one of us, all on our journey, regardless of where that is. You know, some of us are very advanced and very far down the path. The Section needs to be supporting us with very advanced information. And for those that are, you know, young, emerging, the Section wants to be there for you also. So that is a development that I've been very pleased about.
- [20:41]
A
Brooke, that is so awesome. Oscar, thank you so much for your perspective. This has been enlightening and engaging and one of the things that both of you alluded to is the resources that are available at aicpa. So you'll find there a copy of the standards templates for how to write an engagement letter, different business practices, just like Brooke was alluding to. That could be one way or another. There is no one size fits all for CPA financial planners and we understand that, but we want to show you what those options are to find what fits best for you, where you're at now and where you want to advance to. Brooke, let us know what else is on your mind.
- [21:28]
B
Well, there's also a tax and planning calendar that the executive committee went through at a recent meeting, just adding quite a few items to it. So that is a great resource to see, you know, month by month, quarter by quarter, what are some things to think about? So if you are a tax practitioner and maybe you want to add a few different services, check there for what is timely in different quarters of the year. Also some semi breaking news. I think it has been out there, but the fact that the PFP Advanced Conference is coming back in January of 2026 is. Yes. Yeah, that is a fantastic development. And PFP is still going to be an integral part of engage, but we've recognized and responding to a lot of feedback from members that there was an element that was missing. And we really do need the Advanced Personal Financial Planning Conference. And for the last seven years we have had the Personal Financial Planning Summit which has been fantastic. And we've had Lyle Benson and Michael Goodman who've been the champions of that. We've all loved it. It's a very more intimate experience focused on practice management and we don't want to lose that. But we are going to blend and meld it into the Advanced PFP conference. So yes, if I could be sending up balloons and fireworks and cheers, I would right now. Just very excited about that conference coming back.
- [23:20]
A
That is excellent. Well, it sounds like a very exciting future for the CPA Financial Planner. If you're listening right now, everybody is behind you. The AICP itself, all the members who are doing it, and obviously people like Brooke and Oscar who volunteer their time to help you and our industry really advance in this area of financial planning. So Brooke, Oscar, thank you for sharing with our community of listeners and our hope is that you listening got a valuable tech takeaway. So check out our show notes to find resources, especially the ones that we talked about during the show today related to this episode. And to learn more, visit the AICPA pfp section@aicpa.orgpfp we'd love to know your speaker and topic ideas for future episodes and send an email to financial planningicpa.org if you get value from this podcast. We'd appreciate your support by following the podcast in your favorite podcast app. Thank you Oscar and Brooke, and thank you for listening. I look forward to next time this.
- [24:34]
D
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