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AICPA Personal Financial Planning (PFP)
From Busy Season to Better Seasons: A CPA's Path to Planning with Deb Meyer
00:22:12
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- [00:02]
A
I'm Carey Sinnott and this is your Personal Financial Planning Podcast. When it's busy season, are you wishing you could smooth out your time and maybe even earn more for the time you put in? What if there was a way to shift from the grind of compliance to a model that delivers deeper value and creates more balance? Well, according to our guest, maybe the answer is adding advisory services like financial planning welcome to the AICPA's Personal Financial Planning Podcast. As the manager of the PFS designation, the financial planning credential exclusively available for CPAs, my role is to keep you informed, educated and connected to a premier community of thought leaders delivering trusted financial planning. We explore the full range of planning topics and the current events shaping our profession. And if you're a CPA financial planner or simply want an inside look at today's topic of integrating advisory into your CPA practice, this podcast is for you. Today's guest is Deb Meyer. She's the founder of Worthiness, a Fioli wealth management firm and that helps families align their finances with their values. Deb brings over 20 years of experience in tax, wealth management and financial planning, having started her career at Deloitte and later serving high net worth families at Manor Family Office. She's also the award winning author of Redefining Family wealth and host of the Beyond Budgets podcast. Deb's thoughtful approach combines technical expertise with deep personal insight and she's passionate about helping families make confident financial decisions through life's most important transitions. Deb, welcome.
- [02:04]
B
Thanks so much for having me Carrie. I'm really excited to be here.
- [02:07]
A
We're excited to have you. So Deb, diving right into it, you decided to merge your CPA firm and an ria. What was the deeper vision that guided that choice? And looking back, how did that integration change Maybe not just your operations but your whole philosophy of how you served.
- [02:31]
B
Clients just to give a little bit of history. When I left Matter Family Office that was in late 2013 and I started an accounting practice really just as a part time side hustle while raising my kids. So my boys were young at the time. I had two babies slash toddlers and wanted to still offer professional services but didn't want to do it at the full time scale. So I started SVCPA services back in 2014 and then after a couple of years really missed the financial advisory aspect. So worthiness, the RIA launched in late 2016 a couple years later and I ran those businesses side by side for a couple of years now. Realistically it ended up being a heavier workload trying to manage two different businesses, to be honest. And I just found myself being stretched thin and also felt like I needed to get to a point where I could start hiring and bringing on additional help. And it was hard to bifurcate those businesses. What I found was, you know, if someone was helping me on taxes or bookkeeping, often they would also be a good fit for some of the financial advisory work that we were doing. So really, it was a strategic decision in early 2023 when I merged the accounting practice into Worthynest. And you know, quite honestly, I wish I had done it a little earlier. It did streamline things for the operations, but also created more of a conduit for those small business owners that were seeking out the accounting and tax services, but then also wanted to have assistance with their personal finances. So it was just a nice natural extension to be able to serve those clients holistically rather than in a silo. And I'm sure you have experience working with financial advisors outside if you're in a CPA practice, you know, where it can be hard to exchange the information and get all the data at the right timeline, and it can be a frustration on both ends. So if you're able to bring those advisory services in house, it can be really helpful.
- [04:48]
A
Sometimes coordinating with the entire advisory team if they're outside, is almost as much work as doing the actual work for the client. So it sounds like for you, that really made a efficiency impact.
- [05:05]
B
It did. It made an efficiency impact for the clients, but it also made it an impact within our team. So, you know, I am able now with hiring decisions to really bring someone on who can help in multiple areas of the business and not worry about, well, I have to get this payroll software for this set of functions and this other set of software for these others. So it really is a great point of connection both for the client experience and internally.
- [05:35]
A
Well, Deb, though, it sounds like that could be putting a whole lot on your plate, though. I mean, it's like two companies. You're running two separate companies now. It's one much larger company. How do you balance the demands of running both in accounting and practice and an advisory firm that could easily stretch anyone thin. What did you learn about leadership? What can you share with us about boundaries? And I'm sure there were lessons in resilience, maybe that you couldn't have learned any other way. What's your experience?
- [06:11]
B
It's interesting looking back on it, because I. I've been a mom the entire time. I've had this entrepreneurial Path. And speaking candidly, I love the work I do for clients. That's meaningful work is a very important item to me, but being a great mother is also really important. So just finding out ways that I can strategically plan my days to make sure I'm showing up at home and for clients in a very proactive way. So that's actually one of the reasons I chose entrepreneurship. To be honest, I felt like working in traditional roles, you were a little more limited in what kind of hours and expectations there were around being at your desk certain hours of the day. And I really didn't want to miss out on the experiences with my kids that, you know, if they have something going on at school at 2 in the afternoon, I want to be able to attend that and work my schedule around it. So I've been very, very blessed in finding that nice balance of being a present parent and also running the advisory firm. Now, from a practical standpoint on leadership, I have also learned you have to delegate. You have to learn that you can't handle it all, and there are other people who are going to be more skilled in certain tasks than you. So that's why it has been an important part in the last several years for me to have other team members who are really contributing to the common goal of the firm. We're still a very small firm, but I do feel like we really emphasize that meaningful work, no matter what the position is. I've struggled a little in the leadership arena. That's definitely an area that I continue to work on, just trying to be patient with new people as they learn new skills, but also taking some of that knowledge that I've learned doing the work myself and really trying to apply it into a more scalable model. So it's always a challenging point, and I guess that's what keeps me motivated in the future as we continue. There's never any static part about entrepreneurship or client service. It's. It's always about continuing on and. And having that great trajectory for the firm to grow.
- [08:30]
A
Well, it can always be challenging to be a business owner, especially when you have to deal with employees, set your priorities, decide what you're going to delegate and what you can let go of. Because if you're running a very small practice, you're doing everything. And so as you expand to practice, and especially if you're going to expand by doing more advisory services like financial planning, now, you really have to delegate those things away. On the other side of the coin, your clients kind of know you one way, and now you've transitioned clients from seeing you primarily as a tax professional to recognizing you as a holistic planner. What have you discovered about how client trust is built or sometimes rebuilt if necessary, when clients are invited to see you in an entirely new light?
- [09:28]
B
Yeah, I think for some clients, especially if their entrepreneurial nature, they understand that businesses evolve and your role in the business will evolve. So certain clients are very open to that and, and they have that trustworthy relationship with you as a tax advisor. And then they get to a point where they feel like, okay, I, I really trust this person. Let's figure out ways that we could do even more work together. So it is a nice natural extension for certain clients, but they, the client has to be ready for that as well. And it often will take time. It took me a couple of years to have some of these clients that were primarily bookkeeping or tax really learn that, hey, I'm, I'm here working in their best interest and I want to be able to help them in all different arenas of life, not just on the business side. And with some clients, we've crossed over that threshold. With others, it hasn't really worked out in that way where, you know, we continue more on the business advisory side and not as much on the personal and just being okay with the idea that some people are going to be open to it, others are not as much, or it might just take a longer timeline. So I will say if you're expecting from day one, if you go into financial advisory services and all your clients are going to suddenly switch to become financial advisory clients, that's a mistaken belief. It really is going to vary depending on who your client base is and how much contact you've had with them throughout the year. If you're more of a transactional business at this point, that does the tax compliance once a and you don't talk to the client or see them outside of that, it's going to be a much more difficult transition to see you in that light. Right. But if you're meeting more proactively throughout the year doing tax planning rather than strictly tax compliance, then it's a much more natural fit to evolve those conversations as you go.
- [11:28]
A
And you have to be patient with the clients. Well, I have a question for you. Listening. If this topic is interesting to you and you'd like to rub shoulders with other experts, you can elevate your practice by going to the AICPA Personal Financial Planning Symposium. It's January 21st through the 23rd. That's in San Diego. And I just looked up the historical weather, January 21st through 23rd in San Diego, average temperature. Deb, do you know what it is?
- [12:03]
B
Let me guess. 70 or not quite 75 degrees.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah, 70. 75 degrees.
- [12:13]
B
Oh, okay.
- [12:14]
A
Well, there people can connect with top CPA financial planners. They can gain 17 and a half circumstances, CPE tax credits and dive into advanced estate tax retirement strategies and even meet with people like yourself, Deb, who have really put into place adding this advisory practice. Now, Deb, your current business model reflects years of refinement. So beyond pricing and service tiers, what has this evolution taught you about the very definition of value, both for your clients and of course, for yourself as a professional?
- [13:00]
B
Value is such a unique word, right? And it can go in lots of different contexts. When I talk about my firm and how we help clients align your money with their values, it's what's nearest and dearest to you in life. Is it health? Is it family? Is it your faith? Like what, what are the things that you hold precious and can show up for people? But value in this context is really, how are we continuing to demonstrate value to our clients? And especially as the business has evolved, I don't feel like there's one perfect iteration.
- [13:36]
A
Right?
- [13:37]
B
As an entrepreneur, you're always kind of experimenting in a way and trying to figure out, hey, is this method of showing someone a financial plan and their cash flow, is this resonating or do we need to adjust and figure out a different representation of what's going on? So it has been really interesting just figuring out along the way that yes, this really resonates with clients, or no, this doesn't resonate and we need to pivot and find a different pathway. You talked about pricing. I mean, our pricing structure has evolved quite a bit over the years. When I first started the Ria worthy nest, we had flat fee pricing of just 150amonth for young families looking to get that financial foundation. Now our minimum monthly fee is 350amonth. So just showing that breadth of experience. As we've been in business longer and have helped more families, we naturally need to reflect that change in service model and also, you know, look at growth plans for the future for the firm. It takes lots of money to attract new talent, right? So that's one fee structure that's changed is our flat fee. But even on the asset based management fee, we've evolved that as well and kind of done a bifurcation of those who are closer to retirement versus those who are further away from retirement, more focused on the family financial Planning. So, um, that has evolved over time. But I think one of the true aspects that hasn't changed is we want to show up for our clients in the best way possible. And there's no one tool, there's no one resource that's this crystal ball that will make everything magically better. But if you continue to invest, if you listen to podcasts like this, if you're learning from other people in the industry or sometimes people outside the industry, that can be such a great advantage for you and your firm in the days ahead as you're trying to master that evolution of client service.
- [15:48]
A
That is so excellent and so good to know that there are different paths that you can take to decide how you're going to charge, how you're going to integrate it. And for CPAs who feel called to expand into financial planning, the technical roadmap seems clear. You know, get some experience. Also, just a quick plug, you can go to aicpa.orgpfp to get a bunch of those resources that you need. Even click on the bottom of the show notes for this particular podcast, and we've attached some that are important there. But, Deb, the inner journey could be more complex. So what first step would you encourage a CPA to consider that acknowledges both the practical and, I want to say, the personal side of this transition? Right. It seems like there are two parts to it. Not only understanding the technical information and kind of the operations and the practical part, but you have to do something with yourself. When is that?
- [16:59]
B
It's going to depend on your particular stage. Right. If you're already a solo owner or you have a small firm and you're running the team, making that decision from a place of, hey, do we have the capacity and the vision to take this into a different service line? That's a different conversation than someone who's an employee and trying to figure out, hey, I like the CPA aspect of what I'm doing, but I'd like to get more into the proactive planning side. How can I gain those skills? Some firms, that's possible. At other firms, you might have to find a different company to align yourself with to really learn and grow. So I, I never encourage people to start an RIA from scratch when they have absolutely no experience in financial planning prior to doing it. Even at a bare minimum, just try to get like a year or two experience with some other firm who knows financial planning and can expose you to that area of it. But, you know, if you've been doing financial planning in some capacity in the past or you had some prior experience with really does come to that heart posture of like, hey, why am I wanting to do this? What is the greater reason behind it? Is it to make more money? Probably not a great reason. You can still make decent money as a cpa, right? Is it so I can work smoother hours? Yeah. Yes and no. You have not as many bumps in tax season, but you're still working year round. You know, when I was in public accounting, I remember we used to work crazy hours until April 15th, and then we take like two weeks off from April 16th to the end of the month. Right. And that's just not possible with the model like this, where you're working essentially year round. You know, you might have some vacations here and there, but it's not the peaks and valleys like a traditional tax season is. So that's another consideration too, that, you know, if, if you think this is going to suddenly shorten your work hours or workload, that's. It's probably not true. It's just going to redistribute the work hours. Right. So I would be thinking more of what, what are you trying to accomplish with it? Are you really trying to make a tangible difference in people's lives going forward? And do you want to be a proactive part of that planning process for them? And if you can answer that question with a definitive yes, then I'd say go for it. You can figure out the tools and the infrastructure and the method of doing it. There's so many different pathways and avenues to explore in terms of either being under someone else's umbrella or setting up your own registered investment advisory firm. But the hoops are bigger. Setting your own up, but either pathway can be very rewarding.
- [19:50]
A
That's so great to hear that it can be rewarding. And everything you've shared Deb is so insightful. Thank you for sharing with our community of listeners. And if you're an advisor out there listening who wants to deliver premier financial planning with confidence, explore everything the AICPA PfP section has to offer at aicpa.org PfP for $269 a year, AICPA members get access to a library of technical guidance, webcasts, planning tools, and expert insights just like debs, all designed to help you serve your clients at the highest level. And this one's near and dear to my heart. If you're a CPA with 3,000 hours of financial planning experience already, consider showing your expertise next to your name by obtaining the PFS credential@aicpa.org PFS this is our podcast together. If this episode helped you in your practice, we'd be grateful if you shared it with your professional community. With almost half a million downloads so far, the AICPA PFP podcast is helping advance the profession one listener at a time. This has been Carey Sinnett for the AICPA Personal Financial Planning Division. Thank you for listening, and until next time, keep earning trust through clarity, guiding with compassion, and delivering premier planning that elevates our profession.
- [21:31]
C
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