A (3:58)

difference, building that foundation so that they're making smart decisions early on, including who they choose to help them with their own financial literacy. Now, Jackie, you've written about personal money beliefs and behavior, not just the mechanics. How do gaps in financial literacy, especially let's say around risk and time horizon, you know, trade offs that you have to choose. How do those tend to derail people who are trying to pursue financial independence?

B (4:32)

Well, as you know, Carrie, it's a big deal what people feel, what they think and the beliefs that they have held. And I would say that that even supersedes sometimes sound logical decisions. You have to recognize that. So you got some of these big debates from history. Uh, you hear them again and again, but, hey, should I pay off the mortgage or should I invest? Right? Um, you know, things like that. So those are, you know, closely held money beliefs and some of it is based on things that are not true. So if you're able to educate that person and tell them why, maybe go into a little bit more of why, and then if they make their decision, they make their decision. But if it's grounded in education and knowledge, it can make a difference. One other example is, you know, I talk with a lot of women and maybe they're going through what they call the grade divorce. So the stay home mom, they got divorced, let's say when they were 55. And a lot of them will tell me I have nothing saved for retirement. I don't know what I'm going to do. Well, insert a little education in there about, you know, the ten year rule when it comes to divorced, you know, exactly. Spouses when it comes to Social Security, that maybe they actually have options available to them, you know, from the divorce that they didn't know about. So I acknowledge the beliefs. That's so important. You have to, because that is going to be the central part of a lot of people's decision making. And then start to insert some facts, some education, and a little bit of knowledge. And I think those combined together is the most powerful thing.

A (6:13)

Wow. Yeah. So education early on, obviously beneficial, but that education never stops, does it?

B (6:20)

No, it never stops. No. I'm still learning stuff every day. Carrie.

A (6:24)

Jackie, you know what? I love seeing the Instagram posts of the camper van next to the ocean and, or somebody traveling abroad. But, you know, I have to be honest here. Some of the fire, the, you know, financially independent retire early content that I see online, it could feel a little unrealistic for the average household. How can better financial education help people still adapt those FIRE principles, that freedom that comes along with it into something that might be healthier and more sustainable in their particular situation, really kind of personalize it to them.

B (7:10)

Well, I'm going to do like everyone else does and blame the media on that. You know, the media does like to not just sensationalize, but obviously they have a job to do and they want to highlight the more extreme cases. So the campervan down by the lake or by the river or whatever that is, not very many people in the FIRE movement. And again, you said, you know, financial independence, retire early. That's what FIRE stands for. It's much bigger, broader than that. And there's no doctrine that you need to sign. You know, you don't have to look at these people and say, oh, I have to do it exactly that way. Again, back to the education piece. It starts to let people know, let's start with big picture. And then you fill in the dots, the way that works for you. When I first learned about financial independence, retire early, it did feel very constraining, as you're kind of saying now. And I said, there's no way I would want to pursue it that way as I stuck with it. Cause I kind of wanted the outcome. Yeah, I wanted to retire early. So I stuck with it a little bit more and I kept asking questions. I think that's the basis for a lot of financial education. It starts with a question and then you're trying to solve that problem or answer that question. So as I'm learning more, I'm asking more questions and I'm starting to frame it through my lens and my life. Like if there's two high income people making, you know, $500,000 a year and they have no kids, I can't try to put myself in that situation. But I can start to say, okay, even though I don't have a really high income, I have lower expenses as well. And I have this But I don't have that. And you it starts to shape the whole thing. But it can only come from you being educated and know what options are out there. What. But I think it's a pretty rewarding process to start to ask yourself questions and to help yourself find the answers.

A (9:10)

You know, it sounds like that financial education and the personalization go hand in hand. I remember thinking about, I know such a small bit of information, but around the edges of the information I knew that's where my questions were. And so as my picture of the information I knew got wider, I actually had more questions. But I love how that journey personalizes for each person who is pursuing that financial education. And we as financial professionals can really be an important part of that. And to you listening out there, if today's conversation about financial literacy resonates with you, we have a conference called Engagement. And it's where these kinds of ideas come to life, how you can add value to your community, to your clients. You might want to join thousands of professionals this summer for cutting edge education, real connection and practical insights you can bring straight back to your own practice. You can learn more@aicpaengage.com Jackie, you have done some amazing work and specifically in your work with late starters, how does improving financial literacy there reshape not just their financial outcomes, but their sense of agency and confidence about what's possible? You spoke earlier about great divorce and that seems like such a crucial spot to be inserting financial education in order to help them feel like they have control over their life. What does that look like for you when you're helping Late Starters?

B (10:59)

Yeah, so late starters are very interesting because it's probably more late starters than you think. The average American is a late starter because for the longest this stuff was not available in high school. People didn't talk about it. It was a taboo topic. So now you're at 45 or 50 or 55 and you're like, I didn't know that. I thought 10% was fine to save them my 401k and that's all I needed. And turns out it's not. You know, and again you come to that realization and you start asking yourself a lot of questions. Late starters, they will start asking themselves, well, I don't think I have enough. How do I fix that? You know, how do I really get ready for retirement? Because you know, you know this, you know, when you're at that 45, 55 range, that's when they start triggering their brain to think about preparing for retirement. And the first instinct for many late starters that I talk to is shame and guilt. I should have known this. They're very hard on themselves and they need to take that time to process. Maybe they're thinking about the things they did wrong. Maybe they're thinking about the fact that they took out an extra loan on their house to pay for their kids college when they really should have been saving more for when retirement, whatever. They will find every little thing to blame themselves and to, you know, again they're kind of hard on themselves. Once they kind of get through that phase, that's the first phase. Once they get through that, I notice they start to say, okay, I thought about this enough, it's time for me to do something. And typically what they want to immediately do is look at investments. Now that's typically not the first part. But for some people, most late starters that I talked to, they immediately want to talk about asset allocation and looking at investments and things like that. And then they start to say, well, what about all these other things? So once they get through that, then they start reconciling the fact that they actually have some superpowers. A lot of them are at their peak earning years, A lot of them are empty nesters where the kids are out and they've launched and they are at a point in their lives where they don't care as much about what other people think. They have fully formed their opinions and their ideas of what they want their lifestyle to be. So there's this arc that I love for late starters, but it does start out pretty harshly when we realize we're at a place that we don't want to be. And now how do I change it? And part of that process in realizing these things, some people may seek out a professional, some people may try to do it themselves. Some people may have a community or group of people that they seek out to kind of help them better understand or to learn to start to make a little more progress and to make movement. So that's what I've seen in most late starters, Jackie.

A (13:59)

That is real life. I think there's a lot of shame when you're a late starter and you know you haven't done enough. In fact, it even makes it difficult to to talk with a financial professional. And hopefully we as financial professionals can help alleviate some of that shame and that guilt. Because you're right, people in that category, they do have some superpowers. In my own household, I am trying to launch some of our kids into adulthood and self sufficiency. You know, when I think about what I can do as a financial professional to help my client base, to help my community. I really have this question and hopefully you can help us with it. So when you think about the long term impact our entire financial planning profession can have, what's the one action or, or if you could challenge every listener that's listening right now to take in order to advance financial literacy because it helps all of us. You might be talking to a person and you help them now, but that helps a different financial professional down the road or vice versa. What's the one thing that we can do that would really make a huge impact?

B (15:18)

Here's what I think again. I'll double down on this, that financial professionals hold a lot of knowledge and if we're only sharing it with our clients, that that's touching important people. These are your clients that pay you. That's important. But you have a lot of knowledge that many other people can benefit from. So you may not be the social media expert, you may not be the greatest, you know, person giving a speech, but think about how you can further share that knowledge. An easy, you know, idea would be, okay, you've got your 200 clients. All those clients have family and friends that sometimes they may ask you about, like, I want you to help my kid. What if you did some kind of session that was just for friends and families of your clients? Or your kid is off to school, you know, off to college. More than likely, at least one of those classes are trying to provide some financial education for their students that's about to conquer the world or at church. Just think about all the spaces that you're in. You're probably one of the only people that holds this type of knowledge. How are you going to share it with bigger numbers of people? That probably requires very little effort on your part because you're talking to these clients every day. Think of all the examples of scenarios you might be able to do. Think of all that additional knowledge you're getting from every single client. So the world and society is going to be better off and at a better place if they're able to hear from you. And I'll mention social media really quick because it seems like financial professionals, when they think about financial education or you know, trying to do something that's going to hit a lot of people, they immediately start talking about social media. It doesn't have to be social media. However, we know we see a lot of people out there on social media with no credentials that's giving out bad information. The only way we can help conquer that is to put out great information as financial professionals and credential professionals. And it doesn't even have to be a lot. Maybe you, if you don't even like to talk or do videos, you know, maybe put up a post or maybe become more engaged on whatever your preferred social media platform is, or make yourself available for maybe a content creator or someone else that is creating that content. And the big takeaway is just that you hold a lot of knowledge that so many people can benefit from. That is going to take little, you know, minimal time on your part. But the weight of what you're saying goes a lot further as a credentialed financial professional than someone that is sharing information that they may not be well versed on or know enough about.

A (18:15)

So powerful. I think about the times where I have shared with somebody outside of the office, just some little nugget and they go, I never knew about that. And to me it was just of course. But to them it made a huge difference. And so what I hear you saying is advisors, think of your circle of influence, whether it's within your own clients. You could have an event that promotes financial literacy for your clients to invite people to, or if your kids are in high school or in college, speak to whoever runs the curriculum there and say, hey, I'd be happy to come in and speak to a class and let them know that you're a credentialed person. And Jackie, I love the idea of more knowledgeable credentialed people being on social media, sharing great nuggets of information. That's what we need out there. And Jackie, thank you for doing your part in that. Jackie, thank you for sharing with our community of listeners. And if you're listening to these great words that Jackie is sharing and you're an advisor listening to this podcast and you want to deliver premier financial planning with confidence, you want to beef up your education, you might want to think about exploring everything the AICPA PFP section has to offer. You could go to aicpa.orgpfp For 269 a year, AICPA members get access to a library of technical guidance, webcast planning tools, and expert insights, all designed to help you serve your clients at the highest level. And this one's near and dear to my heart because it's what I do every day. If you're a CPA with 3,000 hours of financial planning experience already, consider showing your expertise next to your name by obtaining the PFS credential@aicpa.org PFS this is our podcast together. If this episode helped you in your practice, gosh, helped you in your life thinking about how you could help others, we'd be grateful if you shared it with your professional community. With almost 600,000 downloads so far, the AICPA PFP podcast is helping to advance the profession one listener at a time. This has been Kerry Sinnett for the AICPA Personal Financial Planning Division. Thanks for listening, and until next time, keep earning trust through clarity, guiding with compassion, and delivering premier planning that elevates our profession.

C (20:53)

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