Alan Watts Being in the Way – Ep. 34: Confucianism vs. Taoism
Podcast by Be Here Now Network / Love Serve Remember Foundation
Date: January 30, 2025

Episode Overview

This special episode explores the contrasting philosophies of Confucianism and Taoism as presented by the legendary Alan Watts, drawing from rare recordings curated by his son, Mark Watts. The episode weaves together insights from two significant talks: “Taoist Way of Dropping out from Karma” (recorded at Esalen Institute) and “Wisdom of the Watercourse.” Alan Watts illuminates the dynamic interplay between these two foundational Chinese philosophies, their impact on society, and their continued relevance. The discussion highlights classic themes of naturalness, mutual arising, spontaneity, and the art of living with ease.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Confucianism and Taoism: The Two Pillars of Chinese Thought

Timestamp: 03:58–09:00

• Watts explains that Confucianism and Taoism together shaped Chinese culture:
  • Confucianism is concerned with order, societal roles, etiquette, and regulation of family and state.
  • Taoism represents a counterbalance: a philosophy of naturalness and dropping out, traditionally associated with those who seek to “get disentangled from regular lifestyle.”
• Confucianism excels in organizing society, while Taoism provides a “safety valve” and encourages individuals, especially in later life, to explore the mysteries beyond social forms.

2. The Nature of Tao – Beyond Words and Structure

Timestamp: 10:00–13:45

• Key Quote:

  “The Dao which can be spoken is not the eternal Dao…” (Alan Watts, 12:00)

• Watts explains the elusive nature of Tao, rooted in the impossibility of defining the true Way. He notes that the word Dao can mean both “the way” and “to speak,” adding layers to the famous opening of the Dao De Jing.
• He highlights the futility of recipes or step-by-step guides for following the Dao:

  “There’s no recipe for it. I can’t give you any do-it-yourself instructions A, B, C, D as to how it’s done... if you have to ask, you don’t know.” (Alan Watts, 13:20)

3. Tao is Not God: The Organismic Universe

Timestamp: 15:00–20:45

• The Dao is “not a manufacturer and not a governor,” unlike the Western or Hindu conceptions of God.
• Lao Tzu likened Dao to water:

  “The Dao... loves and nourishes all things, but does not lord it over them. And when good things are accomplished, it lays no claim to them.” (Alan Watts, 17:15)

• Chinese thought views the universe as an organism, where all things mutually arise and cannot truly be separated.

  “Bees and flowers coexist in the same way as high and low, back and front, long and short, loud and soft… All those experiences are experienceable only in terms of their polar experience.” (Alan Watts, 20:35)

4. Mutual Arising and Interdependence

Timestamp: 20:45–28:00

• In Taoism, there is no true causality or separation; everything “arises mutually” (positive and negative, to be and not to be).
• This insight stands in contrast with the Newtonian, mechanistic view of the world prevalent in the West.
• Notable example:

  “In Chinese painting, man is always seen as in nature rather than dominating it... Daoist inspired painters, Zen inspired painters, have this view of man as an integral part of nature.” (Alan Watts, 23:45)

5. Self-Nature and Spontaneity (Ziran)

Timestamp: 28:00–31:00

• Watts describes the Chinese concept for “nature,” which literally means “what happens of itself”—spontaneity, not automation.

  “Figure a world in which everything happens by itself. It doesn’t have to be controlled; it’s allowed.” (Alan Watts, 30:30)

• The ideal is the leader who “abdicates and lets all the people… conduct their own affairs.”

6. Karma in India vs. Dropping Out in Taoism

Timestamp: 31:00–39:30

• Watts weaves in Indian notions of karma—the system of moral cause and effect versus the Taoist way of “uncoupling from the train” rather than paying off debts car-by-car.
• Karma is related to attachment and retribution; the Taoist approach is to “get free from karma without challenging it”—a shortcut or easy way.

7. The Art of Wu Wei (“Non-Action”)

Timestamp: 39:30–48:00

• Key Quote:

  “The Daoist manner of life is wu wei. Don’t force it. Always go with the stream.” (Alan Watts, 41:10)

• Wu wei is the action of non-action—effortless doing, alignment with the Dao, allowing skill and art to flow naturally.
• Stories illustrate this principle:
  • Master sword makers whose blades influence outcomes without direct force.
  • The story of Lietza riding on the wind—achieving mastery by letting go of control.

8. Practices of Letting Go and Meditation

Timestamp: 48:00–53:30

• Practical advice for meditation: don’t try to meditate or force thoughts—let all sensations arise freely.

  “If you practice meditation, don’t try to meditate. … don’t try to repress thoughts. … let go.” (Alan Watts, 51:00)

• Paradox: trying to be natural or present always introduces tension; only true letting go returns us to naturalness.

9. Timelessness and Presence

Timestamp: 53:30–56:00

• Notable Quote:

  “There is no such thing as a progression in time. The spring does not become the summer. There is first spring and then there is summer.” (Alan Watts, citing Dogen, 54:10)

• Each moment is its own reality; continuity is an illusion, both in time and in narratives of self.

10. The Present Moment and Everyday Mind

Timestamp: 56:00–59:00

• The only reality is the present; even memory and plans occur now.
• Zen wisdom:

  “When you try to accord, you deviate.” (Alan Watts, quoting Nansen, 58:40)

• The Dao is “your everyday mind”—no special method or striving is needed.

11. Taoism’s Influence and Legacy

Timestamp: 59:00–60:22

• Taoism’s legacy in Chinese and Japanese arts, science, and manual skills, in contrast to the “bookish” Confucians.
• The “lazy” Taoists were actually most inventive, illustrating the power of intelligence and following the path of least resistance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The Dao which can be spoken is not the eternal Dao.” (Alan Watts, 12:00)
• “Lao Tzu said, the dao is like water. It always seeks the low level which human beings abhor.” (Alan Watts, 17:20)
• “Bees and flowers… are inseparable. To use a very important Taoist expression, they arise mutually.” (Alan Watts, 20:35)
• “In Chinese painting, man is always seen as in nature rather than dominating it.” (Alan Watts, 23:45)
• “Wu wei. Don’t force it. Always go with the stream.” (Alan Watts, 41:10)
• “When you try to accord, you deviate.” (Nansen to Joshua, recounted by Alan Watts, 58:40)
• “The lazy people achieved the most interesting results because they were like water, which is lazy and always seeks the line of least resistance. But that is almost the same thing as intelligence.” (Alan Watts, 60:00)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Confucianism and Taoism in Society: 03:58–09:00
• What Is the Dao? And Why Can’t It Be Spoken? 10:00–13:45
• Dao is Not God: Organismic Universe: 15:00–20:45
• Mutual Arising & Interdependence: 20:45–28:00
• Nature and Spontaneity (Ziran): 28:00–31:00
• Karma and the Taoist Shortcut: 31:00–39:30
• Wu Wei and Effortless Skill: 39:30–48:00
• Letting Go in Meditation: 48:00–53:30
• Time, Presence, and Self: 53:30–56:00
• Everyday Mind is the Way: 56:00–59:00
• Taoism’s Artistic and Scientific Legacy: 59:00–60:22

Tone and Style

The conversation flows with Watts’s characteristic clarity and wit. He employs humor, storytelling, and vivid analogies, making the material both accessible and profound. The overall mood is gentle, patient, and gently paradoxical: inviting listeners to both question and relax, to seek and let go.

For more: Visit alanwatts.org for recordings and further background.