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Alien UFO Podcast
Incident at Devils Den
01:02:21
This week I'm talking to Terry Lovelace about his book 'Incident at Devils Den'.
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- [00:00]
Podcast Advertiser
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- [00:27]
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- [03:30]
Simon Bown
This is an alien UFO Podcast classic episode and I'm your host Simon Bown. There are a number of UFO episodes that I released on the podcast a few years ago that are full of great information and I thought it would be a good idea to share them for listeners who may have missed them the first time around. This week I'm talking to Terry Lovelace about his book Incident at Devil's Den. Terry is a six year veteran of the United States Air Force where he served as a medic and EMT from 1973 to 1979. He and a friend were abducted by ETs from Devil's Den State park in June of 1977 while remote camping. They were both on active duty at the time. What followed were 40 plus years of nightmares, phobias and PTSD like issues which continue to this day. So hi Terry, Thanks a lot for coming onto the podcast.
- [04:23]
Terry Lovelace
Thank you for the invitation Simon. I appreciate it. It's a real pleasure to be here.
- [04:27]
Simon Bown
So the book we're going to be talking about is called Instant at Devil's Den and it's about something that happened to you with UFOs at Devil's Den. But you say in the book that your experiences go right back to your early childhood. So what is your earliest memory?
- [04:44]
Terry Lovelace
My earliest memory is documented in a second book called Devil's Den the Reckoning. I have memories from as far back as age 4, which is pretty typical. That age range between 4 and 6 seems to be very typical of people that have early childhood experiences and then intermittent encounters for a lifetime. I'm 68 now and my last experience was in on April 19th of 2019. So it continues, and you say in
- [05:20]
Simon Bown
the book that you've never been a fan of science fiction and you don't read books about UFOs or any of those related topics. And it's one of those things that skeptics might say that, oh, you're just getting it all from science fiction or you've read too many books. But that wasn't ever part of your life.
- [05:37]
Terry Lovelace
No, never has been. And it's not a part now. You know, my. I have friends. I've made friends in the UFO community since I published my book in early 2018. And I never realized there was such a vibrant community of genuine experiencers out there. Yeah, there are some people. I don't. I mean, I don't judge the veracity of anyone's claim, but there are some very genuine good people out there, most of whom that I know you've had on your show as guests. And, you know, it's. I had no idea that there was this kind of community out there. And no, prior to 2018. I researched my book in 2017, but prior to that, no, not a fan of science fiction whatsoever. Disturbs my sleep.
- [06:34]
Simon Bown
The book kind of starts off with you talking about this X ray that you had on your leg and this anomalous piece of metal. Could you tell us what happened there? That was 2012.
- [06:44]
Terry Lovelace
Was now it was. It was October in 2012. I retired from the state of Vermont, where I worked as an Assistant Attorney General until January of 2012 and in early retirement. And we moved from the state of Vermont to Dallas, Texas, where we have adult children and grandchildren. So by October that year, I had some pain in my knee and I couldn't bear weight on my knee. I told my wife, hey, I got to go to the hospital. I get all my medical care from the Veterans Administration. So she took me to the VA hospital, and I waited for an hour, which is fine. I know people with heart attacks get preferred treatment. So I'm waiting my turn. And they rolled me into the X ray room. And the X ray technician took a couple shots of my knee, looked confused, and asked me if I'd ever had a shrapnel wound or been in some kind of accident that could account for a piece of metal in my leg. And I. I told her, no, I've never been in an accident, and I certainly was never exposed to shrapnel. I served six years in the Air Force, but never left the. Never left the States. So it was a surprise to me. And she took some more X rays and Said she was going to have the radiologist come down and take a look at my. At my films. And I asked her to see them. She says, we'll wait till the radiologist sees them first and you can ask him. And I did. And he's like, well, yeah, sure. So he popped them up in a view box. And at first I couldn't see what he was looking at. And above my knee, my right knee, there was a little square structure about the size of a fingernail with two wires attached to it. And the wires ran up my leg and then below my knee from a lateral view, there is a cluster of what he says, what he believes to be bone tissue based on its density on X ray film. And it's a floret pattern. It looks like a little flower with a dot in the middle. And it's right in the middle of my right calf muscle. So I have the square structure above and then the floret pattern of bone below my knee. And that florette pattern of bone is still there today, or at least when I had it X rayed roughly eight months ago, it was still there, the thing above my knee. As I explained in my book, I was making plans to have it removed. I have a cardiac history. I've had a couple heart attacks. And the standard of care in the United States is that no surgeon will touch you unless you have a cardiologist clear you for surgery. Because from a medical standpoint, their view is that it's a risk benefit type analysis. And if whatever is inside of you isn't causing you some kind of distress or problems, they don't touch it. Because the risk of harm or risk of infection, risk of a cardiac event is greater than the benefit of taking something out of my body that's not causing me any problem. And I protested that pretty loudly. And the cardiologist said, look, I've got. And she was a VA cardiologist. I did see a civilian cardiologist and got the same answer, by the way. She said, look, you know, we got 50,000 vets out there walking around with pieces of metal in their body from, you know, Afghanistan or Korea, wherever, and they want it out of their body, too. But, you know, if they have a cardiac history like you have or some other comorbidity, the standard of care is, nope, we leave it lie. So I couldn't get it removed, which is what I wanted. I wanted it removed to be analyzed. And I had called and made arrangements with a surgeon in Tijuana to travel to Mexico because I'm in Texas. I'm not all that far away and have it removed. The standard care in Mexico is much more lax than it is in the States. And he said, yeah, sure, come on down. I sent him copies of the X rays, my X rays, by the way. I think I may have sent you copies. If you don't have copies there at. Anyone can view them@terrylovelace.com is my website. So the plan was In December of 2017, I was going to travel to Tijuana and have them removed. And in November, November 16th of 2017, I woke up early in the morning in a lot of pain. I had these deep, deep puncture wounds at the top of my legs. One on each side, both legs, to my knowledge. I had nothing in my left leg. I don't know why they chose to puncture it. I had this deep puncture wound that I could take my fingers and hold it open and see deep into the tissue, and there was no blood. A weird, weird wound. And I had no way to account for being hurt. I wasn't that way when I went to bed. But I knew when I saw that wound in my leg that they'd come and taken back their merchandise. Matter of fact, those were the words I used to my wife. I said, I think they came and took their merchandise out of my leg, at least the one on top, the square structure. And she says, how do you know? I said, I don't know. I just know. And I went out to find an X ray. And, you know, where do you go to get an X ray? I mean, in the States here you need a doctor's order to get an X ray. You just can't walk in and order one. So I went to a chiropractor, and I know that they look at 100x rays a week. And I took copies of my X rays on copy paper with me. And I sat in the waiting. I didn't have an appointment. Sat in the waiting room and waited and waited. And doctor comes out, says, come on. And he was very busy, says, okay, what can I do for you? And I said, or. He said, were you hurting? And I. We were in an exam room. I pulled my pants down and I showed him these wounds on the top of my leg. And she. He said, how did you get these? What happened to you? And I said, doctor, I woke up like this. And he put on some gloves and he had a light. And he looked. And you could see deep down, I don't know how far down, but you could see. And again, weird. Because there was no blood. And he said, well, you know, this is really a soft tissue injury. You know, what do you think happened to you? And I said, well, Doctor, I'm going to be candid with you. I think I had. I think aliens put these implants into my leg sometime prior to 2012, likely in 1977, when I had an encounter. And I said, I think they came back and took their merchandise, at least the one on top. They took it out of my leg because they somehow had knowledge that I was going to see a surgeon and have it removed surgically. And he's like, okay, then. And he's leading me toward the front door. He thinks I'm crazy. And I held up the pieces of copy paper with the X rays in front of his face right to his nose. And he stops about three feet from the door and says, okay, come on back with me. We went back and went into his office, and he shut his door, and his phone is ringing and people are knocking at the door. And he sets the copy paper on the table in front of me and says, okay, give me the capsule version. What's the story here? I said, well, doctor, to be very honest with you, exactly what I told you. I found these things in my leg. Standard of care in this country. I can't get it surgically removed because of my cardiac history. And I was planning to go to Tijuana, Mexico, and have them removed there, at least the one above. And I think they came and took this out of my leg before I could get that far because they did not want this to fall into the hands of terrestrial scientists. And I said, you know, I'd like to have an X ray to see if it's actually gone. And, you know, I think this guy must have either been an experiencer himself or in the course of looking at people's X rays, has seen this before. Because he got out of. And I told him I was writing a book, plan to have it published in the next six months or so. He pulled out a prescription pad, and he says, we don't have X ray equipment here, but I'll write you a prescription. You can go just down the street to a standing, freestanding X ray clinic, and they'll give you an X ray. They'll take them. And then there's no charge. I'll take care of the charge. Just bring me back to films. And I'm like, sure, thank you very much. And I did that. I got my X rays, and as soon as I got to the car, I took them out and held them up to the light of the sun in the car. And there was no object above my knee anymore. What's gone? And on some level, I knew that. Intuitively I knew that. And I dropped the X rays off at his office, and he called me, I think it was the next evening around dinner time, and said, you saw your X rays? I said, yes, I did. I saw the structures gone. And he said, well, did you see that they left you something? I said, no, I didn't see that at all. And he said, yes. On your X ray, on your femur, the upper bone of your leg, down close to the bone, there is a piece of wire about a centimeter in length. And he said, if you look at it through a light source, you can see it's actually two very distinct separate wires side by side in your leg. And I said, doc, you know how, Let me ask. If these things are so intelligent, if they're so far advanced, how could they be so inept as to leave wires in my body? And he said, you don't get it. He said, they don't do anything by accident. He said, what they probably did is gave you an upgrade. He said, this is probably a 2017 version of maybe the 1977 model that they put in your body back then.
- [17:39]
Simon Bown
That's a scary thought, I suppose, in a way, like thinking, oh, you. You're still tagged. They've still got a tracking beacon on you.
- [17:48]
Terry Lovelace
Yeah, and those. Those are still there. And, you know, it was an odd emotion when I saw the X ray and realized that they. They really were gone. Or at least the thing above my leg was really, really gone. And by the way, the thing below my leg, because it's bone tissue, no one will take it out because it's natural to the body. So that. That wasn't even in. In the. In the game as far as something to remove. So it was only the square structure. But yeah, when I saw that it was gone, part of me was happy, but on some level, I didn't feel good about it. And that sounds odd, I know, but I felt like it had become a part of me.
- [18:32]
Podcast Advertiser
Stuart Fails to Save the Universe is about Stuart Bloom, who ran the comic book shop on the Big Bang Theory and now has to restore reality after he accidentally causes a multiverse Armageddon. On the Stuart Fails to Save the Universe podcast, Hear from the creators, cast and crew as they unpack each episode after it airs on HBO Max. Watch the Stuart Fails to Save the Universe official podcast on HBO Max, YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:00]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [19:59]
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- [20:29]
Simon Bown
In the original investigation in 2012, the medical staff looked at your leg and they were looking for some kind of a wound or a scar to see how that thing got in there, but they just couldn't find anything.
- [20:43]
Terry Lovelace
That's very true. The radiologist I asked him to see my X rays and he popped them up on a view box and pointed out the structures to me. And really, he didn't need to point them out. You certainly didn't need MD after your name to see these things. They're evident as being foreign to the human body. And he said for this thing above your knee to get in there. He said the things below your knee are made out of bone tissue. And he says, I've never seen bone tissue spontaneously sprout in the middle of a muscle before, much less arrange itself into this symmetrical floret pattern. And he said, the thing above your knee that had to be surgically implanted into your leg somehow. The thing below your leg you could have been born with. He said it'd be an extreme rarity, but you could have been born with it. But the thing above your knee is absolutely a foreign structure. And there has to be a scar on your leg because they had to get it into your body by some method. And I said, no, I don't have any scars there, doctor. And he says, I'm sure you do. He said, you know, it may have happened when you were a young kid. You know, it may have happened early in life and as you've gained and lost weight over the years, it may have been in a moved and in a different location. But there's definitely a scar going to be there because you can't violate the integrity of the skin and have that heal even with sutures and there not be a scar. The human body just doesn't work that way. And he looked at my leg for probably 15 minutes. He turned off the lights in the X ray room so it was really dark. And he had a handheld black light. I didn't know this, but scar tissue will fluoresce under a black light. And he turned lights back on and said, you're right, you don't have a scar there. And he looked puzzled. And I said, well, Doctor, may I ask you how often is it that you see a foreign object like this in a human body and there might be the corresponding scar? And he said, never said. I've been a radiologist for 23 years. I've never seen this happen. And I can't account for how this thing got into your body.
- [23:01]
Simon Bown
It's frightening in a way, I suppose, that they can do that. I wanted to move on because there's so much to talk about. Your book is so interesting and it's so well written and it just carries you along. I wanted to ask you about the four grinning monkeys. I've got a few questions there. And you had a poem as well, which was really quite creepy. But can you tell us about these monkeys?
- [23:24]
Terry Lovelace
I can. As Murphy if we have time, I can. I can do a quick read of that. I'd like to share that with your audience if I could. Yeah, when I was, when I was four is when I first started having interactions. And I think that, you know, I've had 2500 now emails from people all over the world who as children saw orbs of light in their room. Monkeys, clowns, rabbits, owls, lots of owls, and all manner of weird objects. And I think that the reason for that is that these things can appear in a way a child will see as most benign. When I first saw these monkeys in my Room I woke up. I thought I was still dreaming. But there were four little circus monkeys in my room. And at first as a child, I thought like a child. I thought they were kind of comical. I thought they were kind of entertaining. I didn't see them as a threat of any kind. But after a while that changed. And I realized that when they came, they came and they took me and we went somewhere else. And I think that the little poem says about everything. This pretty much sums up my interaction with non human entities at an early age. Shadows from the hallway crept into my room long. The monkey men too, I assume. Never before in life had I seen a creature that grinned. Before I could scream. A candle's flame dances before it grows dim. One monkey man's shadow has slowly crept in on his knees and with ease he is perched on the edge of my bed. If you please. The silence was broken 1 inch from my ear as the monkey man whispered, My boy, I'm right here now. Monkeys were 4 and wore masks to the seed children or even grown men, if you please. I started to tremble and covered my head. But the monkeys, all four crept close to my bed. Outside of my covers, four peeled with delight. These men, these monkey men here, will they take me this night? Faces with grins approached me to say. Terry, won't you come with us and play? Come with us now. Give us your hand and we'll take you to an unbelievable land. You may not remember the last time or when. But come with us now and you'll see it again. But I said I know you are not what you seem. And if you are real, then why can't I scream? This night the monkey men take me with ease and I'm but a terrified child. If you please. These things are not men that are born of this earth. You're a star. To the west is the place of their birth. It matters not what I do or say. The night, like the others, they'll take me away. Where shall we go? How long must I stay? Tell me. You four tell me now. I do pray. We're going home, Terry. There's no reason for glue. See that star over there? Just east of your moon? To return you to bed before breaks the dawn, we must take from you blood and things that we need. Many entities one day will be born of your seed. When I'm taken away, can my mom hear my calls? Across all the space through brick and through walls. Will she think I'm lost or been seized from my bed? Will she worry I suffer or fear I am dead? She'll cry and sob while we go and play. If I don't return before dawn breaks the day. And when I return, will I come back whole? Or will sinister deeds take some terrible toll? We'll soon arrive at the place we do dwell, you'll see there's neither heaven nor hell. A place with two suns lights our day, A place that is different but also the same. The years have passed quickly. As life slips my grasp, Pray tell me, why did you hurt me? I ask. From earth you take away women and men to tag us and track us toward what an end? We are sentient beings that feel self aware. But you are just monkeys, and monkeys don't care. As a child I had no voice to say what may come to pass on some future day. I have the need and right to know what was done to me so many years ago. Surely you knew that one day I'd be grown, no longer helpless, no longer alone. Did you not believe that I'd come to confess the memories you stole and failed to suppress? So flawed was your sinister plan ill conceived that others first scoffed but then came to believe. I swear by all that is holy and all that is right, the next time you come to take me at night when four little monkeys crouch near my bed, I'll take my revolver and shoot them all dead and heads up.
- [29:00]
Simon Bown
One thing that stood out to me in that chapter a sentence, when you were talking about the monkeys being in your room, you thought to yourself, this will be the fourth time in two weeks. So it seems like they were visiting you very often.
- [29:15]
Terry Lovelace
They were visiting me very often. But it was sporadic in that I might see them three, five times a week, and then maybe not see them for a couple of weeks, or maybe not even see them for a month. And also, it's difficult as a child. As a child, we track time on a different scale, I think so I can't really be sure. I didn't have the wherewithal. Ages 4 through. My last sighting was I was age 11 in 1966. So, yeah, it would happen to me sporadically. It wasn't like four times a week for years.
- [30:05]
Simon Bown
And did you feel that they wanted something from you at that age, or it was just kind of acclimatizing you to them?
- [30:15]
Terry Lovelace
I think both. I think that they wanted. They wanted me to be comfortable with their appearance. And as I said, they appear in a way that a child will find most benign. I found them comical at first, but then I grew fearful of them. And you know, one of the. One of the. I'VE been plagued with PTSD type symptoms and just terrible nightmares for the past soon be 45 years. And one of my. One of the worst nightmares that I have. And it doesn't sound that scary, but in the dream I'm back in bed, age 4, 5, 6, somewhere in that range. And one of the monkeys near the head of my bed holds out a paw. And in my nightmare I look down and it changes. It's not a paw, it's four gray, long ugly fingers. And at that point I wake up and just flip out. To this day, you know, and I know that I'm having that dream because it's a recurrent dream. I've had it hundreds of times. And I can see where it's going and I know what's coming, but I can't wake myself up. It's like the dream has to run its full course. But when I see that finger, those fingers, I know that I'm seeing them as they actually were without the disguise.
- [31:45]
Simon Bown
You saw a disc when you were outside using a bow and arrow. And I think you said you felt like they chose you to see them. It's like it wasn't accidental. They presented themselves to you, they wanted you to see them.
- [31:59]
Terry Lovelace
I did feel that way. I felt special. And I was, I believe, six, I think it was 1966. Pardon me, six, I think it was 1963. I was eight years old. I was in my backyard in St. Louis, Missouri and I was playing with an adult bow and arrow set that a relative have given me. Now I would Never let my 8 year old son play with something so lethal, especially in an urban environment with, you know, in row houses like we lived. And I was shooting these arrows into a bale of hay and I was looking down to fit the notch of the arrow into the bow string and I saw this perfectly round. This was in May. Beautiful day without a cloud in the sky. Perfectly round, shadow move across my feet. And instinctively I looked up. And I don't know if I adequately explained this in the book or not, but I don't remember. It's been a while since I wrote it, but this was a busy Saturday afternoon in the neighborhood. There were cars and cats and men mowing grass and women hanging up laundry and all, all the sounds that you would have on a busy Saturday afternoon. And it was as if as soon as I laid eyes on this thing, the noises of the neighborhood were muffled. It was like I had taken my hands and pressed them against my ears. All the noises were muted. And when I saw It, I had no fear whatsoever. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. I thought, wow, that is the coolest thing I have ever seen in my life. And, you know, it was before the word sexy was even in my vocabulary. I would have called it sexy in the way that, you know, I would call a new sports car on a showroom floor sexy, if that makes sense.
- [34:02]
Simon Bown
Yeah.
- [34:03]
Terry Lovelace
And I thought, you know, if I lie down on this grass, I can have a better view of this thing. So that makes no sense whatsoever. But that's what I did was I dropped my bow and arrow and I laid down on the grass. I talked to a investigator named Lorian Fenton who lives in San Francisco. I was at one of her conferences, and she suggested to me that they actually took me and I have no memory of it, and they sat me back down. And that's why I was on the grass on my back, because laying down to get a better view doesn't make sense. And I watched this thing, and it was polished metal, like polished aluminum or something, and all I could see was the underside. And the thing wobbled a little bit in the breeze. And then while I'm watching it, it kind of listed a little bit to one side and then shot off like 0 to 500 miles an hour and vanished in the sky. And as soon as it was gone, as soon as it took off, all the noises of the neighborhood all snapped back into place, and I was right back in date and time and in reality again. And I screamed for my mother, you know, mom, did you see it? It was so cool. Did you see it, mom, did you see it? And of course she didn't see anything. What's even more amazing is all the neighbors in the neighborhood that were out hanging up laundry, cutting grass, kids playing, nobody saw this thing. I'm the only one that saw it. And I don't. I just don't get that. But I had a similar experience in 2014. I had my wife at a medical appointment, and we came out the back door into the parking lot, and I saw a woman standing by a blue Nissan with her keys in her hand. And she tilted her head back and she's staring at something up in the sky. So I looked up, and here is the silver cigar shaped object, and my wife is right next to me. I'm like, sheila, can you see it? Can you see that thing? He's looking at it like, I don't see nothing. She could not see it. She could not see it. And I asked this woman, I screamed, mada, are you seeing what I'm seeing. And she turned and looked at me with her mouth still open and nodded her head yes. So we watched it and it was there for a few seconds and then just sailed off. So, you know, I think they can be selective about who sees them and how they see them. I think it speaks to the level of influence that these things have over the human mind. And that to me is frightening.
- [37:12]
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- [39:09]
Simon Bown
And it seems that the memories, the things that happened to you, that they were kind of covered up somehow. And you were in a shopping mall and you saw a book cover and you freaked out and you saw some mannequins and you kind of freaked out. Did I get that right from the book? That is like your memories were hidden.
- [39:29]
Terry Lovelace
You did get that right. That book was written by Whitley Strieber and I know Whitley. I've spent some time with him. I've been on his show a couple times. He's a friend. And I asked him, I said the COVID that you chose for this book, you chose this rendering, this painting of an entity. Can I ask you, how did you choose this figure? And he said, oh, it's easy, that's what they look like. And he must be right because, you know, I've had other people tell me that they saw the COVID of this communion book and had a similar reaction. I had one lady email me and said she bought the book for her husband who couldn't wait to read it, but he tore the jacket cover off of the paperback because you could not stand to look at that. That image.
- [40:30]
Simon Bown
Yeah, I've heard that before from other people as well. That book was a trigger for a lot of people. Your wife had an experience as well, didn't she? She said that she woke up one night and there was a three foot tall woman standing at the end of the bed.
- [40:45]
Terry Lovelace
She did. And that's really the one experience that she's had, you know, and We've been married 48 years. My wife woke up in bed and middle of the Night, 1987. She didn't look at the clock, but she thinks it was around 2:30 in the morning. And I wasn't in bed and there were no lights on in the house. And that kind of puzzled her. And then at the foot of our bed there was a window. We were on the second story and there was a street light outside. So there was light that came in through that window. And it silhouetted this figure in front of her at the foot of the bed. And she described it as a cloaked figure again that she couldn't see clearly. She perceived it as being feminine. And it spoke to her telepathically in a feminine voice and said, everything's fine, go back to sleep. And that's what she did. She rolled over and went back to sleep. And then a couple days later she told me, my God, I had this most unbelievable dream. I think it was a dream, but it didn't feel like a dream. And that's when she brought me. She had a. She cut out an article from a time, not Time. I think it was look magazine. It was an old magazine back in the 80s. She cut this story about Betty and Barney Hill and brought it to me. That was the couple abducted from a New Hampshire road. And she said, did you read this? Would you read this? And I'm like, okay. And we, we kind of both, we came to an agreement that we just wouldn't talk about this stuff because every time we did, I'd have nightmares. She'd had nightmares. It just never ended well. But I read the article and I'd not heard of Betty and Barney Hill in 1987. Again, I wasn't in the UFO culture at that time. It had a big impact on me because it reminded me in so many ways what happened to my friend and I back in 1977.
- [43:14]
Simon Bown
Well, one of the interesting things that you said that happened to your wife then was that there was this three foot tall woman at the end of the bed and your wife just lay down and went to sleep. That's not really what people would do in that situation.
- [43:29]
Terry Lovelace
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And that's. Once again I, I say it speaks to the level of influence that they can have over us because I promise you, if a three foot woman appeared at our window inside the house, my wife would probably in very short order shoot her dead. So no, that's not the reaction I would expect from her or from anyone else for that reason. For that matter,
- [43:59]
Simon Bown
I wanted to move on. Because you tell a fascinating story about a black diamond craft that you saw over a nuclear silo when you were in the Air Force.
- [44:09]
Terry Lovelace
I sure did. In 1977, I was stationed. Well, for my entire enlistment I was stationed at Whiteman Air Force Base. And Whiteman Air Force Base is still there in western Missouri. It's now home to our B2 bombers, big flying wing thing. And it's a nuclear base still. When I was there, they had B52s armed with nuclear weapons, bombs. And they also had a squadron of Minutemen, two ICBM missiles. And they were in missile silos and they were spread out all over the countryside because it was very rural, it was nowhere back in the day. And of course in the 80s the place started to build up. And then in the 90s, they, they pulled all the nuclear weapons out of the silos. But when I was there, there were still silos there spread out all over, all over the farm and in the fields. And one January night, bitterly cold January night, 1975. So it was two years before what happened at Devil's Den. And we got a call. Toby, my, my friend and I worked in the emergency room. We were medics, EMTs, and we responded. You know, someone had a heart attack, there was a, you know, a car accident or, you know, any, any manner of things that would require emergency, an emergency response, we would respond to it. So there was a special phone that we Had. It was a red phone that we called a crash phone. And when that rang, we jumped to answer it because that meant that at a nuclear facility or out on a flight line somewhere, there was some type of accident that required medical attention. And those calls were priority over everything. So Toby took the call, as I remember, while I went out and warmed up the ambulance, because it was so cold outside, it was like I say, January. And we took off to a missile silo. I called it kilo 5 in the book. To be honest with you. I don't remember what letter designation it had, but I think it was something. Five, Delta, Whiskey, Charlie, five, some, something. So I just called a Kilo five in the book. And we went out and there were a dozen security police cars all around this missile silo in the middle of 10,000 acres of cornfields and trees. And I rode up on the thing, and as we approached it, it was weird because these dozen Air Force security cars all had their flashing lights going. And there was. It was so cold that there was this big cloud of exhaust fumes over the silo. And that. That cloud of fumes reflected that pulsating light because these things were all flashing out of sync. And it was just a very eerie, you know, kind of orange, pinkish glowing light. And that set the tone for everything. And there was a captain in charge standing in the middle of the road with a radio. And he pulls me over, I roll my window down, and he says, park your ambulance over there. Your man's okay. He's walking and talking, you know, but nobody goes in, nobody comes out until I give the word. So park over there and stay off your radio. So this was all really never seen anything like this before. I had no idea what was going on. And my friend Toby was always the impulsive one. And we're in this ambulance, we got the engine running, but it's so cold that the inside of the windows are covered in frost. So my friend Toby says, I'm going to go have a look, see and see what's going on. I'm like, man, we were told to stay in the ambulance. You know, that was an order. I mean, this guy's an officer. We should. And, you know, he didn't care. He threw on his parka and jumps out. And just a few minutes later, he yanks open my driver's side door of the ambulance, pulls me, grabs me by my shoulder and is pulling me out. And he says, terry, man, you have got to see this. You have got to see this. And I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on. I grab my parka and I hop out and here's this captain with his head tilted back and he's looking up at something. And I'm looking around and here are maybe 20 security policemen, all of them with, with rifles, all of them looking up. So I looked up and directly over the launch tube of the Minuteman 2 ICBM. And about 50ft in the air there was this matte black multifaceted thing about the size of a full size van, very similar to what was described at Rendlesham. Find out later, only with maybe a few more faceted cuts to it. My friend Toby had the presence of mind to count the panels that he could see. And from memory he drew a pretty good rendition of it. I wish I had a copy of that because he drew a pretty good picture of the thing. And we all watched this thing for a few minutes and then it just shot off. Like the thing I saw when I was 8 years old. It just shot off toward the horizon and was gone. Never heard a sound. There were no visible means of propulsion when it was hanging in the air. I mean, all of these security police cars had their spotlight on it. So this thing is matte black. And your eyes, I guess your mind plays tricks on you. Like this can't be. I'm looking for wires or somehow this thing is suspended in air. But of course there were none. It was just dead. Still no markings on it of any kind. And when it shot off, I looked at this captain and he turned around, looked at me, and he smiled real big. I was expecting to get, you know, chewed out for getting out of the ambulance. And it was, it was an interesting moment because it was just two human beings, irrespective of rank, sharing this, this encounter with something not from this world. And in a minute or two, he snaps back into his role, we both snap back into our respective roles and he said, I'll get the gate open for you. And he ordered some security policemen to open the gate. And we went in and got our guy, who was, curiously, the guy had fallen off a ladder while servicing this, this missile and either broke his ankle or sprained it real badly, I don't recall which. But this poor guy, his friends took him and seated him in this little building. There's a little brick building. You open the door and there's a desk there. It's tiny. There's a desk there, a coat rack and an elevator door with one button down. And that'll take you down to the base of the missile. And they had put him in this room with no windows and propped his leg up on a trash can. And this poor guy can hear all this noise going on outside. And when we picked him up and got him into the ambulance, he's like, what I miss. Oh, what a mess. What'd you guys see? What'd you guys see? And we're like, well, we told him. Toby told him. Yeah, this is what we saw. He's like, oh, man, I didn't get to see any of this. And wasn't concerned about his ankle. He was sorry that he missed out on all the excitement.
- [52:35]
Podcast Advertiser
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building. You're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering, and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [53:05]
Simon Bown
So if we can talk about the incident at Devil's Den, where you were out camping with Toby and you saw this craft, and it just sounded so enormous. You said a city block in length and maybe five stories tall, and it was just kind of happily flying along it. What did it look like? How did you feel when you saw it?
- [53:31]
Terry Lovelace
That's an amazing story we had. Neither one of us had ever been camping in our lives. We weren't real outdoorsy types. So this was our first time camping. And we set up a little tent. Colby made a campfire, and we're sitting on opposite ends of the campfire talking. And I remember making a comment to him that, you know, hey, this really is pleasant. I could see how people would come to like this. This is kind of nice. And I noted we were having trouble hearing one another, even though we were just eight feet apart, because the crickets, the tree frogs, all the things in the forest that make noise at night were so loud that we had to raise our voices to be heard by one another. And. And I said, well, they went silent. They went silent like that, like someone flipped the switch. It went from noisy to absolutely dead quiet. And now all I can hear is the crackling of the campfire. And I asked my friend, of course, like, he's gonna know. I'm like, is this normal? And he made fun of me and says, yeah, man, don't worry about the bugs. The bugs will come back and make some more noise. You know, we've been laughing and cutting up. We just quieted him. You know, just wake. I'll be back. And it was a minute or two later, and it unnerved me. I. I was not comfortable for some reason. And a few minutes later, he asked me, he says, hey, Terry, were those lights there before? And I'm like, what lights? What are you talking about? And I. I couldn't see them because he was sitting on an air mattress and his. His torso was in the way. So I had to stand up and take a step back. And I saw these three glowing stars, all the same level of brightness in this perfect, tight little triangle just above the western horizon. And they were too far above the horizon to have been lights, like from a parking lot or a train or something. And they just look like they did not belong there. That makes sense. And my friend was an amateur astronomer, and I'm like, you know, hey, man, are these things we're seeing, Are they in our atmosphere? Are these things out in space a million miles away? And it was curious because the lights twinkle, you know, like stars do. And he said, no, I don't. I don't think these things are. Are natural. I think we're looking at that something, you know, in our. In our environment, in our atmosphere. And while we're watching, they rotated. They turned about 120 degrees, and this thing aligned itself with the base of the triangle parallel with the horizon. And as soon as it did that, it started to go straight up. And the second that it started to go straight up, I had this sense of calm wash over me. It was a distinct feeling of sedation. Now, granted, we were tired, but, you know, I was 22, Toby was 23. We were in the best shape of our lives. We could have been tired, but not. We had every right to be tired because we did a long drive, but not sedated like this. I mean, we were used to working a night shift. This wasn't. This wasn't anything for us. And, you know, years later, I had some surgery, and they gave me a sedative before they gave me the real anesthesia. And I felt that same calm, kind of warm sense of calm wash over me. And, you know, I. Simon, I hate to repeat myself, but again, it speaks to the level of influence these things can have over us because, you know, the forest went dead quiet. And our emotions were muted, too. Our emotions were inappropriate to what we were seeing. And we should have been. I mean, human beings see Something that they've never seen before. They want to validate the experience, you know, like, hey man, you're seeing what I'm seeing. You know, what is this thing? You know, that kind of thing, back and forth. But there was none of that because Toby was in that same weird place that I was. And these three stars went up and reached what I call a ceiling, referred to as a ceiling. And it kind of changed orientation where instead of seeing three lights in the triangle, it's like it rolled over so it was parallel with the, with the ground. And then we saw three lights, you know, two on each end and one in the middle, which meant that the apex of the triangle was pointed in our direction. And this thing started like a glide plane coming down from the sky. And we just watched it without comment. I think, I think Toby made some comment like, they're really moving now. And I don't recall seeing a thing. And it parked about 3,000ft over the meadow where we had set up camp. And it was absolutely enormous. There's an author by the name of David Marler, N A R L E R. And he is the world's expert on triangular shape UFOs. And in his book, which I can't recall the title of, but his last name is M A R L E R. Very diligent, very, very Credible researcher. In 1977, on Highway 70, which was not that far from Whiteman Air force base, about 25 miles maybe, there was a sighting of a UFO that was triangular shape and was described as being tall. In the Hudson Valley, that same year, there was a sighting by a woman who described it exactly the same way that I did as being a triangular shaped UFOs five stories deep. And it was, it was, you know, as big as what I usually use for references. A Walmart store or, you know, or a big medical building would work. It was just absolutely enormous. And we were in the middle of nowhere. I mean, we were on this plateau in the middle of nowhere. We trespassed to get in there and come to find out after all these years that that place where we stayed wasn't even in Devil's Den State Park. That's a piece of land owned and managed by the Bureau of Land Management or our federal government. So this thing parked over our heads, 3,000ft over our heads, it shined a light down, actually. First it shined down this beam of light about 6 inches in diameter that had this milky quality to it, you know, very much like a high power searchlight cuts through fog. You can see A column of fog. That's what this was like. But of course, there was no fog. And this light just popped on like someone hit a switch. And it landed right in the middle of our campfire and stayed there for a minute or something, not long. And when that turned off, immediately in its stead, there came this laser light from the same place, the center of the triangle. And underneath this laser light that would land, it struck me in the chest several times. It would land and stay at a spot for, like, less than a second and then reappear in another location. But it. It struck my car, the tent, Toby's backpack, his cooler, all the stuff that we brought that weren't natural to that field. It struck, and it struck me in the chest at least three times. I never felt a thing. And I had the feeling that this thing was checking us out, it was scanning us. I mean, that was the conclusion that I came to. But again, I had no fear whatsoever. And that lasted a couple minutes, and then that turned off, and then it's just dead silent. And my friend stood up and said, show's over. And that feeling of sedation that I had transitioned from being sedated to being sleepy, and they are two distinctly different feelings. You know, you can. I can feel sedated but not feel sleepy. But all I wanted to do suddenly was get in that tent and go to sleep. That's all I wanted to do. And Toby dragged his air mattress, threw it in, fell on top of this $10 Kmart tent, and I did likewise. I threw my air mattress in, and he was already softly snoring by the time I head hit the plastic pillow. And I remember thinking, you were wrong, Toby, because the crickets, the tree frogs, none of that stuff ever did come back. But still, no. No fear. And I was. I was out. I mean, I think I was unconscious.
- [63:19]
Simon Bown
And that's what we kind of talked about just now with your wife. Just going to sleep in the weird way.
- [63:26]
Terry Lovelace
It's.
- [63:26]
Simon Bown
There's this huge triangle over you and these kind of laser beams coming down, and you just go to sleep. It's like they've got control of you. They. They get you to do exactly what they want you to do.
- [63:38]
Terry Lovelace
They sure do. And, you know, there's an excellent book by a guy named Ray Fowler about. Called the Allagash 4. And Allagash is a river in the state of Maine here. And there were four. This. This is kind of interesting, too, because this is. This is one of the components, the phenomenon. This is something that seems to be Common and that is that this group of four, it was twin brothers, a gentleman named Rack, and I can't remember the fourth guy's name, but these four guys in their early mid teens, ish, they did everything together. You know, they would go out and, you know, at the bar together, they go out and go fishing together, they go hunting together. You know, they, they just hung out together. And they were out on this lake in a canoe and they had built this enormous tower of fire, the, the stack firewood that they brought with them for this purpose because they were, they wanted to fish on this lake in the middle of the night. And without some point of reference, you know, you could not maybe, you know, be out there until daylight and not find your way back to your campsite. So they wanted to keep. Build this fire so that while they were fishing they couldn't lose their bearings. And as they're paddling out to the middle of the lake, one of the guys sees what he thinks is the moon and it's not the moon. And suddenly there's this enormously bright light on them. And it lights up the inside of that aluminum canoe like, like crazy. And they're panicked and they remember paddling, paddling for all their worth. And then they just, they're just out. They're just out. And they wake up hours later. Their fire is now just embers. And have no memory of what happened during this time. But they rolled back to camp, everybody went to bed, nobody wanted to debrief in the morning, nobody even talked about. These guys got back in their truck, traveled back to their respective homes and they didn't hang out anymore. And the only reason this thing came to light is one of the, one of the brothers, their last name was Weiner. In Ray Fowler's book, he says that this guy had. This guy had these horrendous nightmares that would wake him up in the middle of the night. And his twin brother was along for this camping trip too. And even you know how pied twins are. Yeah, he said he, he and his brother were at his fight after this thing just like, you know, there was something different between Toby and I after we had this experience. And he called up his brother and told his brother, yeah, I'm having this dream. And he starts describing his dream and the brother says, yeah, I know. And he finished the dream for him. He's having the exact same dream. And that's what, that's what got them to seek out help from a psychologist. And through hypnosis, they were all independently hypnotized and they all had the same story. And it was very much like what happened to my friend and I. They were. They were taken by some means and went inside this craft and they were examined and prodded and poked and placed back in their canoe when they were finished with them.
- [67:27]
Simon Bown
Well, we've just about run out of time. We've been talking about your book, Incident at Devil's Den, and that's on Amazon. You get it on Kindle and paperback. But can you tell us about your other book as well?
- [67:40]
Terry Lovelace
Yes, I can. I have two books, Incident at Devil's Den. As you said, it's in paperback on Kindle. And there's also an audiobook that I made where I tell the story in my own voice. And the second book is Devil's Den the Reckoning. And that's the second book where I promised the readers if I had some updates from Devil's Den that I would explain them in a second book. And that's what I did in the Reckoning. And again, that's in print and also in Kindle and. And in the audiobook. So. And they're only on Amazon. So, yeah, take a look or go to my website and there's some interesting images there. That's just terrylovelays.com and if you have a question that you'd like to ask or you or you want to make a comment of any kind, I'm always happy to receive an email. I've received over 2,500 since 2018, and my email address is easy. Terrylovelaceahoo.com
- [68:51]
Simon Bown
that's fantastic. Thanks a lot for coming on the podcast. It's been fascinating. I've got tons of questions left over, but that's a good thing. And maybe in a few weeks or months you can come back and we can talk about the other book.
- [69:05]
Terry Lovelace
Certainly, anytime. I'd appreciate the opportunity.
- [69:07]
Simon Bown
And that was an interview with Terry Lovelace about his book Incident at Devil's Den. And my book titled Aspects of Alien Abduction, is is for sale on Amazon. A great way to support the podcast is to sign up to Patreon, where you can get exclusive access to the extended versions of the episodes. Just go to patreon.com alien ufopodcast and if you enjoy this episode, please leave a review and be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or via your favorite podcast app to make sure that you don't miss out on any episodes. And thanks for listening.