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Alien UFO Podcast
The Unknown Other: Alien Contact
01:02:02
This week I'm talking to Les Velez about his book 'The Unknown Other: and the Existential Proposition of Alien Contact'.
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Les Velez
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Simon Bowness
I'm US Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.
- [01:48]
Les Velez
The sound of a seatbelt.
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Simon Bowness
It's one of the most important sounds in our car.
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Les Velez
It means everyone is ready and everyone is safe. Make it a priority.
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Simon Bowness
Buckle up every time. Hear the sound.
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Les Velez
Make it a habit Paid for by
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Les Velez
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- [03:06]
Simon Bowness
This is an Alien UFO Podcast classic episode and I'm your host Simon Bowness. There are a number of UFO episodes that I released on the podcast a few years ago that are full of great information and I thought it would be a good idea to share them for listeners who may have missed them the first time around. This week I'm talking to Les Velez about his book the Unknown Other and the existential proposition of alien contact. In 1991, Les joined MUFON, the mutual UFO network, and has held the following Field Investigator Training Coordinator for field investigators, the Assistant State Director in Northern California, chairman of MUFON's Abduction Experiencer Research Committee and Team Leader of the Abduction Response Team and presently holds the position of Research Consultant for the Experiencer Resource Team. He presented at the MUFON Symposium in Denver in 2009 on the the proper procedures to use in an abduction investigation. And in 1991 he started facilitating an abduction support group in San Jose, California and in 94 co founded Opus, the organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. Hi Les, thanks for coming on the podcast.
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Les Velez
Well Simon, thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity to be with you.
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Simon Bowness
Today we're going to talk about your book, it's called the Unknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Of Alien Contact. And this is linked with opus? That's right, isn't it? What could you tell us about opus?
- [04:37]
Les Velez
Yeah, OPUS is the organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support and it's a nonprofit that I started with a doctor friend of mine back in 1994 in California and we've been basically our mission has been to Help people having paranormal experiences. And as it turns out, most of the people that have been contacting us for whatever reason have been people that claim that they have had contact with non human intelligences. And so how we go about helping these people is through a referral network of therapists, hypnotherapists, other mental health practitioners. And we also have an online support group which is totally confidential. And that has proved to be probably one of the most beneficial things that we have in our bag of tricks, so to speak, to help people. Because once they're in the group, they understand that their experiences are not unique in a lot of cases, that this is a phenomena, this contact with non human intelligences is, is, is happening all over the world. And we have people literally from all over the world that are in it. We have almost 300 people in the group that are talking to one another 24, seven and, you know, asking questions, telling their stories, understanding, getting good advice from the group. You know, it's, it's amazing how, how beneficial the group has been in helping people because a lot of times these people do not know where to turn. You know, a lot of cases, people having these experiences think they're going crazy. And so they may go to a psychologist or a psychiatrist and then they find out that they're perfectly sane. And then what, what do you do then? And the big question is, so, okay, I can't talk to family members because they'll think I'm crazy. A lot of times they can't talk to clergy. They can't certainly talk to people at work because they might lose their job because people will think they are crazy. So it's a really difficult place for these people once they have an experience like this to, to try to understand, number one, what's going on. But number two, where to get help. And so that's how we, you know, we, we started Opus. And that came about basically way back in 1991. I joined this organization called MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network that was founded in 1969 in Seguin, Texas. And their mission basically was a more nuts and bolts type of a situation. You know, trying to understand propulsion systems of the craft and, you know, sightings and taking pictures of the craft and other things like that. And so the cases, basically after I joined the organization and I got this monthly journal, I decided that that wasn't enough for me and I decided to take their exam for a field investigation. So you get this manual and it steps you through all the things that you, you need to be Aware of, to be a field investigator and you take a test and I pass the test and the next thing I'm doing, I'm going out in the field with a more senior person and we're getting involved with cases of people having sightings. But also beyond that, they were telling us about the fact that they had contact with these non human intelligences. And so almost without exception, not only things were, you know, people were describing their sightings, but then in some cases under hypnosis, these people were talking about their contact. And so they would ask me if I knew of other people. And next thing I know, I'm facilitating a support group in California, in San Jose, California. And, and that's where I really began to learn so much about this phenomenon. But I should regress a little bit here and go back to actually how it all started for me. It was, I was 11 years old, living in Connecticut at the time. And it was a late October evening and I was coming back into the house and I noticed this object very close, making no sound whatsoever, a whitish oval object. And it was just slowly moving with no, no sound whatsoever. And it scared the hell out of me. I ran in the house and I tried to get my father to come out to see this thing. And by the time I convinced him to come out, it was gone. And so he said, well, it's probably just a beacon of light reflecting off a cloud. And I really did not buy that. And subsequently I went to the library and started to read books on UFOs and back in those days, this is like 1958, excuse me, that Georgia Damsky was the guy that was very well known and written a number of books and so I digested his books and so I was really into it. And then, you know, life got in the way and I kind of forgot about the whole UFO thing. To make a long story short, I moved out from Connecticut after going to college and serving in the military and I moved out to California and picked up the San Jose Mercury News. And Stanton Freeman was going to come to San Jose City College and talk about UFOs and a government cover up. Well, that was like somebody threw a switch and I said, oh my goodness, I have to go see this presentation. So I went there expecting to see a handful of people, but the auditorium was packed and on the way out and, and of course he did a fantastic presentation on the way out. MUFON had a table there and that's when I got the information about joining the organization and getting their monthly journal and you know, and the rest was history, so to speak. But as I said, going through these, you know, being part of the support group meetings, it was incredible the hear these stories and, and you could, you know, feel it was palpable how, how upset these people were in, in a lot of cases and you know, and your, your heart goes out to them and trying to understand what's going on and how you can possibly help them. And so we, one day I, I got a call from a person down in Carmel, California. And based on an article that I was written up in, it was a Monterey coast weekly paper. And I was basically interviewed about my, what I was doing with Muon. And so this woman said, I, I, I'm in touch with these off earthly entities and I'd like to see what's going on with my brain when this is happening. And so I said okay, and, and kind of you, you know, internally saying, well, I don't know how I could possibly, you know, help this person. And so then she said she was working with an emergency room doctor down there in Carmel. And that's when, you know, I got more interested. And I knew that a doctor friend of mine who was, who was also a member of mufon, was interested in meeting other doctors interested in the phenomena. And so I called him up and I said, hey, why don't we go down and meet this person and see what's going on and see what we can do. So we did. One Saturday afternoon we went down there and as we were walking in, there was a picture on the wall. And in the picture she's standing on the back of this boat, rather large vessel. And I asked her, what are you doing here in this picture? And she says, oh, I was helping these treasure hunters. I said, really? I said, how are you helping them? She says, well, I was in contact with the captain of the galleon that had gone down. Well, that kind of blew us away right there to hear somebody say that. And what we found out was that after a near death experience that she had had, she became very psychic. And she was in contact with multiple entities, you know, past masters and all kinds of things. And so this was a remarkable capability that she had. And the rest of the afternoon she was telling us things about ourselves that there was no possible way that she would know. And so we came away with that afternoon saying, how could we possibly help this person? And so that's when Opus was hatched. You know, we decided, well, we better put an organization together. And so like I say, and then in 1994 we, we officially became recognized by the US IRS, the Tax Collectors and. Which I think is hilarious in a way, paranormal group and the irs. But anyway, so. And we've been, you know, doing, doing this, this type of work ever since. And of late, however, we're starting to get more cases of people having situations where it's maybe more demonic or more angelic. You know, so it's interesting how, you know, people's perception of these things based on their, their background, their religious background and other things. But as I said earlier, we've been mainly really involved with people that have had contact with these, you know, are they extraterrestrials, are they interdimensionals, are they time travelers, are military, or all the above, which I think is what's really happening. I think just about anything you can imagine is, is what's going on.
- [15:43]
Simon Bowness
The phrase that stood out to me in the book was Spiritual Emergency. So what is that?
- [15:50]
Les Velez
There's an organization that we actually refer people to, and that could be exactly that. And I believe this whole process is a spiritual journey. No matter what you look at, whether it's involvement with Grays, whether it's involvement with, with Orbs, whether it's involvement with interdimensionals or poltergeist, it's all, all related to a spiritual journey. And so there is an organization out there that is, supposedly really looks at that part of it. And, and so the, the, the process that they go through may be a little bit different, but I think it really comes out, you know, pretty much the same. Yeah, that, so we, we do refer on occasion, but we haven't actually done a lot of referral to that organization because generally speaking, whatever we're dealing with is, is part of a spiritual journey. And, and, and so I think that when people go through this process, whatever they are going through, when they come out the other end, their, their whole worldview changes. Their, their, their way of thinking changes. You know, they're left with messages like we need to be better stewards of the planet. We need to be better to one another. I mean, these are all really positive type things. And so it is, you know, not a religious journey. It's, it's a spiritual journey where your, your whole soul, your energy is, is transmuted, if you will, in, in a way that 70 to 80% are positive experiences. Sure, there are negative experiences as well, but it's a, it's, it seems to be a smaller, a smaller number, a lot smaller number than the people that come out of it with real positive feelings.
- [18:00]
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- [21:10]
Simon Bowness
So you became a field investigator for mufon. When you started out investigating, do you have. Did you have any idea of how much high strangeness could come up? Or did you have an idea that UFOs could be connected with spiritual stuff with, you know, all these weird things?
- [21:27]
Les Velez
Yeah, well, for me, I always started out as a nuts and bolts kind of a guy myself, and. But it was, it was very quickly I, I realized that there was more to it than just people seeing a craft. One of the cases I'll, I'll tell you about is, is a couple of this is in the book that a couple that were up in a. In a. In a state park north of Santa Cruz, and they had picnicked up there, and they were coming out of the park, it was getting to be dusk, and they noticed this light over the ocean, and this light kept bigger and bigger and bigger and until it was over their head. And it was a triangular craft about the size of a small Learjet. And it slowly drifted, you know, again, making no sound, drifted into a canyon behind where they were standing. And they noticed another light over the ocean, and this light got bigger and bigger and it was over their head. And again it was, you know, craft about a triangular craft about the size of a small Learjet. And the first one they saw, they felt they were looking at it. The second one, they felt it was looking at them, and they became frightened. Well, needless to say, this, needless to say, but it actually, five more times it happened that these craft came in. So there was a total of seven craft sitting in this, in this canyon in the back where they were. And they all went up on their side and it's like they went around a corner, but of course, there was no corner. They just disappear and like they went into another dimension. And so they started to go out of the park. And even during the day, this park is kind of difficult hike because it's kind of steep and it's rocky and it's. It's covered with a lot of vegetation, so it's dark. So even, like I say, during the day, it's a difficult path. To take out of there. Well, they felt that they were drifting out of there, and they. They managed to get down to their car, and that's the last thing they remember until three hours later, they find themselves in a restaurant north of the park, which is only 5 to 10 minutes away by car. And they have no recollection whatsoever of that time as to what happened. And so the. I mean, these are the kind of things that people come away with. Well, not only did that happen to them, they did show up at a subsequent support group meeting, and they had taken pictures of a rash that they had gotten after this experience. And, well, there's a lot of poison oak and poison ivy up in this park. So, you know, they figured it might be that. So they went to a doctor to get something, and the doctor said, no, this is not poison oak or poison ivy. I'm not sure what it is. And they ended up going to another doctor, and that doctor said, well, it might be something internal, like a reaction to something that you ate or something. Well, needless to say, they took some pictures and they brought the pictures with them to the support group meeting, and they showed it around. And almost without exception, the members of the group said that they had a rash similar to that at one time. And so one of the people in the group said, well, I'm pretty sure I know what that's caused by. And so, of course, we sat there with bated breath and said, so what is it? And he says, well, it's a reaction to the fluid that they dip you in when they bring you on board the craft to sanitize you. So these are the kind of things you start to hear. And, you know, your window of believability, especially in the beginning, is somewhat narrow. And over time, it expands and keeps expanding. And it. And it hasn't stopped expanding because of the stories that people say. And I had actually gone to MUFON, oh, guess it was about 2007, and went to the international director, who at the time was James Carrion, and said, you know, you guys are missing the boat on. On working with abductees. And, you know, you've been a nuts and bolts type of an organization for so long, I think you really need to, you know, have some kind of a program where when you get calls. And I heard that they were starting to get calls from people talking about their experiences, but then they had no mechanism to help them. And so I volunteered OPUS to work with mufon. So we had. We had a working relationship for quite a while where all the phone calls that were coming in to MUFON were redirected to me. And so I would talk to these people, find out what they were looking for. Most of them were looking for hypnotherapist to uncover some, you know, repressed memories, things of that nature. And back in those days, so we hadn't set up the online support group yet, so we didn't have that capability at that point. But most, as I say, most of the people were looking for hypnotherapists. So we were able to fill that, that need. And so now subsequently mufon finally the light bulb went off and said, you know, we should be doing this ourselves. And so they an organization within MUFAN called the ert, the Experiencer Resource Team, which I'm also a part of as a research consultant. Because back in 2007 they had asked me to conduct a study of these, these people that claimed contact with non human intelligence. And so I put together a team of psychologists and we came up with the Omega 3 study where we took 71 people that felt that they had been, you know, had this contact with non human intelligences and 51 people as a control group. And let me, let me read you the conclusions that we came up with in that study. In general, abductees experiences profile differently than do their comparison counterparts on a number of general psychological and specific neurological variables. Yet there are remarkable similarities between the experiential group and the comparison group. It should be noted that in no case did experiencers or comparison group participants show any signs of mental illness or personality disorder. So Simon, they were not crazy fantasy pronent, which a lot of debunkers talk about, does not appear to play a differentiating role between the experiential and the control groups. However, sensitivity to alternative realities and early and recurrent paranormal or psi experiences seem to play a role in the abduction experience. Childhood conflict, psychosocial tension and abuse and trauma more than likely facilitate a dissociative coping style in later life. How much a part dissociation plays in abduction experience remains an open question. Both experience with an interest in abduction phenomena have impact on how one's body is perceived to function, how one views the world and one's purpose in it, and how one defines and redefines one's faith, traditions and beliefs. In essence, both experience with and interest in contact seem to change one's sense of self and one's worldview, which I had mentioned earlier. Abductees experiencers believe that there is a sentient, purposive alien Intelligence at play in their lives and at work in the world. What the intelligence's goals are seem to be more beneficent than benevolent, more benign than malignant. Now this, this part was an interesting one. The brain generally in the temporal lobes and limbic system more particularly play a mediating role in anomalous experiences such as abduction. This in no way implies that the abductions are all only in the abductees heads rather points to the likelihood of temporal ability and a preset or a precursor to extraordinary experiences. So you know, there's been a, there's been a number of studies I guess. Gary Nolan from Stanford University and Kit Green, the former CIA operative have been studying experiencers and they found that in the area of the ca date that the top of the caudate or the bottom of the caudate and the top of the putamen area in the brain, there's a lot more connections in that part of the brain with people that have psychic abilities. And it also seems to be running in families. So you could follow generations that have this. And so it's the old chicken and the egg. Did the aliens have anything to do with facilitating that or are they following people that have that ability naturally? So, but that's, that's a question that needs to be, look, looked at.
- [31:00]
Simon Bowness
One of the things that stood out for me about the Omega 3 study was something about the, their interpretations of the force or forces behind near death experiences and UFO encounters. There are similarities there between those two things.
- [31:19]
Les Velez
Well, yeah, I think that all of these factors, whether it's a near death experience, a psychic ability, a poltergeist activity, it's all connected in some way, shape or form that we just don't understand at this point. You know, people have said that, you know, are we ever going to be able to really understand this scientifically or do we even have the language to, you know, discuss it? It's, it's fascinating, you know, and consciousness now is, is a big word that's being utilized and thrown out there time and time again as to trying to understand what that is. And the latest thing I've seen, well, it's consciousness is really in the fourth dimension. And so that our brain is dealing with the fourth dimension in some way, shape or form that you know, we here in the third dimension haven't figured out yet.
- [32:17]
Simon Bowness
Something we talked about before we started recording was you had this interesting experience when somebody at a support group meeting said to you that they'd seen you before and you said where? And they said, I see you on board the craft. What happened with all that stuff?
- [32:34]
Les Velez
Well, that's, That's. That's interesting because as I said, the first experience I had with that was. Was a person told me, well, I've seen you before. And I said, well, you know, UFO conference or grocery store or someplace like that, and said, no, no, no, I saw you on board a craft. And I kind of dismissed it and, you know, didn't think much more about it. But a year and a half later, it was at least a year and a half later, maybe two even then a totally different person, different support group members, and, and like that, it said, I've seen you before. And I said, really? You know, UFO conference, gas station someplace. They said, no, no, no. You were sitting on this bench naked on board the craft, and you were freaking out. And they told me to go over to you to calm you down. Well, after that, I decided, okay, I am going to go get regressed and definitely try to dig a little deeper here because I have, you know, no conscious recollection of anything like that. So I went to three different people. Three different people had three different regressions, had nothing to do with that type of a thing. But I had multiple past lives. And, you know, either. Either people were just maybe somehow thinking they ingratiate themselves to me by saying what they said, or they. They were making stuff up, or that thing is buried so far in my subconscious that it's just not coming out. And then a subsequent conversation I had with a person, they said, well, maybe you. You. You had an experience in a past life, which, believe me, I. I think that this past life information. One of the people in our book. In my book, Adam talks about the aliens talking about reincarnation and that it's. It's a factor of the universe that this is. This is a common thing. And so it's totally possible that in a past life I might have had an experience like that. And for whatever reason, this person might have been in that same situation in a past life and is remembering that. But again, it gets very complicated very quickly, and all you can do is surmise what. What this all means a lot of the times.
- [35:09]
Simon Bowness
So what's your view on using hypnotic regression as a means to recover memories? Because it's not like hypnotic regression has a. A solid 100% reliable reputation for doing this. It's like some of the memories can't be completely. You can't have confidence in them completely.
- [35:30]
Les Velez
Yeah, I think that it depends on who you. Who actually is doing the hypnosis. It's very important to have a person that is certified, that has the proper training, so that they're not leading people, they're not planting suggestions in people, because that's very possible. So, number one is to go to a professional that has the kind of background that you can trust and has the, you know, proper credentials. Yeah, I mean, you have a lot of people out there that quote, unquote, are not certified. They're doing this, and they can. They can do more damage than good. So it's something that you need to be concerned about. And so we try with our referral network to have people that are certified, and there are cases where they may not have that kind of credential, but they've been doing it a long time, and they have a good reputation where people have come away and had very positive experiences. And so we, We. We may utilize that as well. But, you know, there's. There's so. So much that goes on with, you know, people, the debunkers, talking about, well, you know, it's sleep paralysis that's going on. Well, two thirds of the cases, whether in the bedroom or not, do not involve sleep paralysis. And then the other thing I mentioned was that fantasy proneness studies, such as the Omega 3 study, find fantasy proneness not in play. Or other studies that have been done show the same thing. And then one of the things, another thing that people talk about, I think, what is her name? Susan Clancy, in her book from Harvard University, talks about false memory syndrome. Well, the American Psychological association or any other mainstream psychological diagnostic system has either ratified or proven such a diagnosis. So these people are having something going on. And the big question is, what is it? Is it extraterrestrial? Is it interdimensional? Is it time travel? Is it the military? Or is it all the above, which I kind of think it is?
- [38:02]
Sponsor Announcer
This episode is brought to you by Alloy Health. On the Alien UFO podcast, you hear stories about mysteries that science is still trying to solve. But when it comes to menopause, you don't have to wait for answers. Almost half of women wait three or more years before finding relief from hot flashes, sleepless nights, and brain fog. Some are told by their doctor that it's just normal. Alloy was built by women who have been through it all. It connects you with menopause, specialized doctors, and proven treatments so you can get care in hours, not weeks. No more waiting for answers or feeling ignored. Join the 95% of women who tried Aloi and saw relief in the first two weeks. Head to myalloy.com and use the code Summer20. Your menopause specialized doctor will tailor your treatment to your exact needs. Plus you get unlimited messaging with your doctor. Head to my a l l o y.com and use code summer20 to get $20 off.
- [38:59]
Kalshi Advertiser Variant
The world cup champion will be crowned this week and you can trade the tourney through the finals on kalshi, America's number one prediction market platform. Right now Spain is trading at 58% to beat Argentina. Meaning 100 trade pays out $166 if they win. On Kalshi. You're trading against other people in a live market. No house, no odds makers. For a limited time, download the Kalshi app and use code hoops to get $10. When you trade $10k a l s h I kalshi trade the beautiful game 18 only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event console contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Cauchy products are not available in all jurisdictions. Prices, values and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see kalshi.com regulatory
- [39:45]
Simon Bowness
and I suppose people wouldn't go for a hypnotic regression trying to find out about an abduction experience if they didn't have just normal memories of something anyway, something,
- [39:56]
Les Velez
you know, caused them to start thinking that way, that's for sure. You know, they, they might start putting pieces together, you know, that they have a scoop mark on their leg or, or triangular dots in a triangular pattern that show up with no, no rhyme or reason, you know, some physical type of a thing going on or even, you know, watching a program and all of a sudden something flashes, you know, in their mind because it triggered from what they're watching or, you know, remember Whitley Strieber's book Communion? That caused a huge, huge amount of people waking up to the fact that something had gone on when they saw that face on the COVID So it's, it's, it's something that certainly triggered their, their need. And one of the things too that we, we always caution people about going into hypnosis is that you need to be very sure that you, you want to do this because, you know, once you squeeze the toothpaste out of the tube, it's very hard to get the toothpaste back in. And you, you, you know, you need to be sure that you'll be able to handle the type of thing that, that you, you discover. And it's also important to have, you know, one of the things people do or talk about is the fact that, well, you know, you need to be with someone. When this is going on, it's very important that it's. And a lot of people don't want you to do it over zoom or, or, or, or, you know, Skype or whatever facility you might be using, because if something goes wrong, you need to be brought down, so to speak. You need to have somebody there. So you could have a friend that maybe you, you trust or feel good about. Then you could do maybe a zoom. But it's important to be in the same room with someone at the time that you're doing a hypnosis like that.
- [42:00]
Simon Bowness
So I wanted to talk to you about MUFON case. One Sunset beach incident that you've got in the book. And I think that was your first investigation for mufon, and it was an abduction experience a couple had. But I kind of wanted to talk to you about different parts of it because they seem to be quite common in abductions that people report these same things. So what was basically what happened there?
- [42:27]
Les Velez
Well, this couple, he was a park ranger at Sunset beach in, near Santa Cruz, and she was the girlfriend. And they were coming back from having dinner and it was getting to be evening, and they noticed this giant orb, orangey orb, sitting in the field. And there's a lot of agricultural fields around there. And this thing was sitting in a field. And it's almost like they felt like they, they became automatons. And, you know, they, they, they slowly looked at this thing and then they kind of went back to look at the road, and next thing they know, they're back at. He was living in a trailer at the beach, and it was like two and a half hours later. They had this huge amount of missing time. So anyway, they, they, they didn't think a lot about it. And this, these are kind of things that go on. You know, people just don't, don't, you know, talk about things like that. It just leaves you for whatever reason, and maybe it's, it's a subliminal message that they give you when, after they abduct you. But that night it got really crazy. She couldn't sleep after this. And then she noticed these small grays coming through the wall of the, of the trailer. And her, they had a German shepherd. The dog was, you know, knocked out. And they took him, lifted him up and took him right through the wall of the trailer. Well, that next morning they found blood on the sheets. And they thought it was his, but it was hers. So she probably also had an experience at the same time, but she doesn't recall it. Until later, when we did some regression work on her, and he totally freaked out, and he just basically left the job and. And left Terror. And that was the last that she ever heard from him. It just really was something that truly, truly was so traumatic for him that he could not handle it and disappeared.
- [45:20]
Simon Bowness
This description she had where she noted that they both acted like automatons and they just turn their heads and then turn their heads back again as though there was nothing there. It's like they were being controlled telepathically.
- [45:35]
Les Velez
Yes, absolutely. And this is something that there's been some studies done with certain wavelengths that will impact the brain in certain areas that can cause something like that. And I think the military may be even messing around with that kind of a thing. It would be nice if we could do something to the Russian forces in the Ukraine and have them all just turn into robots and go back to where the hell they came from. But, you know, yeah, there's. There's. There's studies going on, on that right now that talk about the ability to affect the brain in certain areas to cause that kind of reaction.
- [46:27]
Simon Bowness
Because I talked to Mike Cleland recently. He said he woke up one night in this house that was out in the. Kind of. On a ranch.
- [46:37]
Les Velez
It was.
- [46:38]
Simon Bowness
There was no other houses around, and there was a light coming through the window. And he got up on his elbows and looked out, and there were five grays walking towards the house. And he heard this voice in his head that basically said, now is the time to put your head on the pillow and shut down. And that's exactly what he did. And that's what this reminds me of. It's like they have that kind of control when really he should have freaked out and jumped out of bed and grabbed a baseball bat or something.
- [47:07]
Les Velez
Yeah, it happens like that. You know, it's a classic. It's absolutely classic. Yeah, you have something strange like that, and you just disregard it and you go back to bed. It's. It seems counterintuitive, you know, like, you say you freak out and run out of the house or get your gun or do something. You know, it's really, really amazing, the control. And I mean, it's not only things like that in this type of a situation, but they seem to be able to manipulate time as well, where some people are taken, and they notice a certain times a reaction. Like he might have noticed what the time was when that happened. And then next thing you know, he's back in bed or back in a car before the incident happened. And then Nothing happens.
- [48:07]
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- [48:10]
Les Velez
they've got a lot of tricks up their sleeve, there's no question about it.
- [48:13]
Simon Bowness
Yeah. This is the hind strangeness, isn't it, when it starts getting really weird?
- [48:18]
Les Velez
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so much to this phenomena that is so strange that you just have to scratch your head and say, well, the first time you hear it, you say, oh no, it can't be true, can't be true. But then when you keep hearing it time and time again, then you start to think, well, there must be something to this, you know, and yeah, it's. We, we just don't understand so much. It's, it's the. And I think, I think our governments probably know a lot more, but they're certainly not telling us. I mean, you know, the fact that supposedly we, we have relations with certain alien entities or races, that we have agreements with them, we have bases on the moon and Mars with them, you know, we have our Space Force out there, supposedly been doing that for more, more time than, you know, they. Since it was announced by Trump, you know, that we have a Space Force. It's probably going on a lot earlier than that. And so it's just an Adam just again, in my book. He's one of the first stories in the book of the 25 that I have in the book. His recollection and his ability to communicate with these entities is remarkable. And he's dealt with the Grays and he's dealt with the Mantis type. And his experience has been very positive, positive experiences as opposed to some of the negative type of things that you hear. But he also refers to the Reptilians, some of the groups being very hostile and do not have the best interest of humanity involved in mind. So, you know, they, they, they supposedly have been here longer than we have, according to some of his communication with this mansion. And so you start thinking about that, well, you know, do they have the kind of powers that we hear? If so, then I think if they wanted to destroy us, which some people talk about, they probably would have done it long time ago. Why wait?
- [50:56]
Simon Bowness
Yeah, before we had nuclear weapons and guns and stuff.
- [51:00]
Les Velez
Yes, exactly, exactly. They could have done it a long time ago. So I don't think that's going to happen. And supposedly there's more good guys than bad guys. You know, people talk about the fact. Well, you know, like David Jacobs and Bud Hopkins basically were talking about, you know, the negative aspects of the phenomena. And where Stephen Greer, you know, says it's all wonderful, there's nothing to be afraid of. It's all good. Well, I think we, we have the same situation going on here on Earth where we have good people and we have bad people and you've got the same thing going on up there. We have good, good aliens and bad aliens, and thank God that it seems like the good ones are prevailing at the moment. So that's a, that's a good note.
- [51:49]
Simon Bowness
And there are descriptions of various types of aliens and pictures in the book. One thing that always stands out for me as being a bit weird and maybe a bit Star Trek as well is that they're almost all humanoids. They are two arms, two legs and a head.
- [52:05]
Les Velez
Yeah, that seems to be the case. Although the Reptilians, they have two arms, two legs, but boy, they're really weird arms and legs. Yeah, but, yeah, it's true. You're absolutely right. I mean, it's not like the. What was the. The movie Arrival where they were looked like octopus and that people have talked about the fact that octopuses on this planet are really aliens. They're so smart. But no, it's true. It's a good observation, Simon.
- [52:43]
Simon Bowness
And it's interesting that there's like the tall whites, there's the grays, the tall grays, the Nordics and the Reptilians, like you say, and then they talk about where they come from. It does seem a bit science fiction to me. And it does make you think, is this real? Is this really going on or are we going too far here?
- [53:06]
Les Velez
Well, I think that with the capabilities that they have, places like the Draco system or Orion system or Pleiades, they can get there, like, you know, within a matter of hours, basically bending time and space. So I, again, I think that it's very plausible, you know, if you want to call it warp drive that they have. But there's more and more going on in the physics world, you know, talking about the capabilities to go 100 times faster than the speed of light and how you could get to Neptune in 30 minutes or, you know, it's like it just phenomenal. And they got the mathematical formulas behind it and everything. So this was a recent release of information. I forget what organization actually under the Freedom of Information act here in the United States came up with this stuff. It was pretty remarkable that, you know, we, we've been working on anti gravity, we've been working on what dark matter is and, and the speed of light and that whole thing. And how you, how you bend space so that you actually pull these, these areas to you. You don't actually travel out there. You pull them to you. So it's like you got to scratch your head and say, okay, I don't understand. I'm not a physicist, and I don't think a lot of our physicists understand it either. So this is pretty high end type of mathematics that are going on. I think we'll eventually figure it out, but I don't think it'll be in my lifetime or your lifetime even maybe another hundred years before we get to the point where we can maybe understand this fully. Unless the aliens decide to give us a hand. I, I had lunch with Lou Elizondo, who was involved with AATIP a couple of years ago before COVID shut everything down. And he was telling me and another gentleman that we're having lunch with about the fact that they think they understand how these craft operate. Well, that's an interesting fact. And it's a combination of the energy and the skin of these craft that there's. And you don't need a huge amount of energy to make these things operate. And so, you know, these are the kind of things you hear off to the side that makes you wonder. Well, I guess the government does know more than we know, that's for sure.
- [56:15]
Simon Bowness
And there's Bob Lazar, who has his whole thing about Area 51 and the sports model UFO that he said he worked on.
- [56:23]
Les Velez
Right, right, absolutely. So I, you know, I firmly believe that, you know, this, this type of a thing is happening. I've, I've had a case, and this is not in the book of a, of a gentleman that came to me about 10 years ago. And he started to tell me a story when he was a young boy living near Wright Patterson Air Force Base in, in Dayton, Ohio, where he was taken out of his bed and through a window with his blanket, and the blanket got stuck in the window. And so supposedly the military came the next day, took the window out with the blanket stuck in the window, I mean, in the glass in the window. And the subsequent things that went on with he and his mother that were bizarre, where they were supposedly taken to the base. And this was all supposed to be wiped from their memory because they brought in an alien on a stretcher. This alien put his hands on their head, and evidently it didn't work because it might have worked on his mother, but it didn't work on him for whatever reason. And he remembered all of this stuff. And in the process of doing this, somebody came in a room that supposedly was not supposed to, and he, they hustled him out and he heard what he thinks was a shot. And that particular person supposedly was never seen or heard from again on the base because there was a missing person's thing that was the part of the story that's a little bit tenuous is the fact that how did he know who the person was? He thinks he saw the name tag and that's how he related it. He remembers seeing the name tag. And we tried to find articles in the paper about this, but the archive, which was not bad because you can access it online, but any of the dates that he had given me, those papers were missing from the archive, which was strange. And he later related to me that he remembers the military going around and picking up papers, the newspapers, and basically taking them off newsstands and, you know, front porches of homes and everything. So, yeah, it might have been written up to a certain degree, but a lot of it was. Was buried. So there is a lot of wild stuff that. That is going on. And I. I tried to tell him to write a novel about it because, of course, there was somebody getting killed in this thing. And so you don't want to. You don't want to make this a. A factual book, but it would make a fascinating novel about the experience with. With, you know, aliens in the military.
- [59:49]
Simon Bowness
Yeah, this whole thing of the. My labs, the military abductions is so weird. I talked to Deborah Jordan Corbell, I think her name is. She. She was a guest on the podcast, and she told me about this time she was taken out of a cabin at night by soldiers, and she found herself on this stretcher, and this doctor came over and injected her with something. And. And he said something just to her, like, just relax. You'll be okay. And then he said, I don't even know why I'm talking to you. You're not going to remember any of this anyway.
- [60:24]
Les Velez
Yeah, well, Melinda Leslie, I don't know if you're familiar with her. She's talked about. Been at many conferences talking about her mill labs or my lab type experiences. And she's also an advisory board member for Opus, along with Linda Moulton Howe, Yvonne Smith, and Terry Lovelace. So it's amazing we've got such a broad spectrum of possibilities of what's going on. As I mentioned earlier. Is it extraterrestrial, interdimensional time travelers, or all the above? I mean, the Rendlesham Forest case is certainly one that talks about time travelers, and they're us coming back 40,000 years in the future because they screwed up somehow, and they need our DNA.
- [61:22]
Simon Bowness
And what do you make of implants? Because I believe there's been some analysis and they do turn out to be quite weird. It's not like just somebody got a bit of glass or metal in their leg or their arm or something.
- [61:35]
Les Velez
Right. Well, you know, the late Dr. Roger Lear was a pioneer in actually having these devices extricated from people. It is weird. Number one, there's no inflammatory or rejection reaction by the body to these foreign objects. There's no visible portal of entry. There's collections of specialized nerve endings surrounding the object. There's an outer coating of a ceramic biological material. There's a metallic phase where inorganic metal becomes biological tissue. They've found emissions of radio waves which are deep space frequencies in the FM band. Electromagnetic magnetic fields in excess of 10 milligaus. Composition of meteoric iron 66. Rare earth metals such as U236, a single isotope of uranium existing by itself, as well as elements such as uridium, which is a really rare and hard to find in the Earth's crust. Non terrestrial isotopic ratios indicating the involved elements do not come from Earth. Existence of carbon nanotubes, gold spheres that have unknown function. Metallic caverns that are no larger than a diameter of one atom. Resistance to ordinary cutting techniques such as metallic sawing or severing with a cutting instrument. One of the specimens had to be cut with a laser. So, yeah, they're really weird. And so if it's not us doing it, so who's doing it?
- [63:19]
Simon Bowness
It's weird that this kind of information's not more readily known by lots of people. If all this stuff points to something genuinely strange, why is it nobody knows about it?
- [63:32]
Les Velez
Well, I think there's a lot of conscious dissidents going on where people, hey, I gotta get up in the morning. I have to go to work. I come home at night, I have my dinner, I'll watch a little bit of tv, I'll go to bed the next day. I'll do the same routine over and over and over again. You know, they're worried about putting food on a table, taking care of the kids. They just don't have the conscious space to put this into any kind of perspective, unfortunately. And our government doesn't do anything. Most governments really don't do much about fostering any information like that. However. However, I think what Lou Elizondo has done now to open up the gates as far as at least exploring the nuts and bolts aspect of this thing and, and I believe he's done it in a smart way by couching it in terms of that this, there's something going on in our airspace and we need to know what that is. It could be a threat. Okay? And I think that's the only way that our government would move forward in doing anything to really investigate this phenomena. Because if it was, oh, it's all good, no problem, don't worry about it, nothing would happen. But now we're getting scientists looking at this, we're getting our government to look at this. And that's the first phase of the next step, which is the phase two is to really work with the experiencers to understand that, hey, what is going on? And people like, and I mentioned them before, Gary Nolan and Kit Green have worked with these experiencers already and asking all kinds of questions. So our government's already doing it, but not in a visible, you know, outward way. They're doing this behind the scenes. And a number of people, even Melinda Leslie, you know, have basically been interrogated about her experiences and what was going on. So they're collecting data already, but we don't, we don't know that in a public way, which is unfortunate. And so shows like yours, okay, are very important to getting the word out and to, to reach more people because I think eventually one day we'll reach critical mass and be able to, to, you know, tell people, yeah, we understand we're not alone, you know, they're here, you know, and maybe at that point when, when that happens, you know, they'll make themselves more, more outwardly known. You know, this Haima Shed, who, this high ranking retired Israeli general that wrote a book recently about the fact that, yeah, we're, we're working with this alien group and you know, we have agreements with them and we have bases on the moon and Mars and they don't want to make themselves known yet because we're not ready. We're not ready. But I think that, you know, we're, we're in a situation where I think probably every one of us has had an experience, but we consciously don't remember it. You know, the roper organization in 1992, that was the study that was asked for by Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs and funded by Robert Bigelow that said that back in those days that it was like 6 million people in the United States alone that had an experience like this. Well, move forward in time. How many more people? And then it's also a worldwide phenomenon, so it's happening all over and we just haven't reached critical mass yet. When that we'll just wake up one day and say, oh, yeah, we know. We know all about it.
- [67:50]
Simon Bowness
And how will people find opus? How could they, you know, get help if they needed it?
- [67:56]
Les Velez
All they have to do is go to our website, which is opus network.org that's op u s n e t w r k dot org and there's a support button on. On the top of the page. All you have to do is hit that, and it'll take you to a little area where you could fill out what it is that you'd like, and then we'll respond, usually within 24 hours.
- [68:21]
Simon Bowness
Well, it's been great talking to you. We've been talking about the book the Unknown Other and the existential proposition of Alien Contact. And that's on Amazon, and you get it on Kindle as well as paperback. Is that right?
- [68:34]
Les Velez
That's correct.
- [68:36]
Simon Bowness
And I'll put links in the show notes to Opus and to the Amazon page for the book. All right. It's been really good talking to you.
- [68:45]
Les Velez
Absolutely, Simon, and thank you so much. I enjoyed our conversation, and thank you again for having me on, and good luck in your future projects and what you do. I thank you for it.
- [69:00]
Simon Bowness
And that was an interview with Les Velez about his book the Unknown Other and the existential proposition of Alien Contact. And a great way to support the podcast is to join Patreon, where you can get exclusive access to the extended episodes. Just go to patreon.com alien ufopodcast and if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review and be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or via your favorite podcast app to make sure that you don't miss out on any episodes. And thanks for listening.
- [69:33]
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