ALIVE WITH STEVE BURNS
Episode: Is The American Dream Dead? (feat. Rep. Ro Khanna)
Date: September 24, 2025
Host: Steve Burns
Guest: Rep. Ro Khanna (CA-17, Silicon Valley)
Overview
This episode of "Alive with Steve Burns" dives deep into the provocative question: "Is the American Dream dead?" With guest Congressman Ro Khanna—progressive voice and representative of Silicon Valley—the conversation traces the evolving promise of the American Dream, the impact of technology, rising inequality, and what dignity and democracy require in a digitized world. The discussion is candid, philosophical, and accessible, balancing hard data with personal reflection and a shared yearning for meaning and progress.
Major Themes & Key Discussion Points
The Changing Promise of the American Dream
[05:21]
- Steve opens by questioning the cliche and reality of the American Dream.
- “Because it seems to a lot of people that they did all the stuff... and now the jobs aren’t there, and inequality is only growing.”
- Khanna affirms the American Dream exists but only for some:
- Quote [06:00]: “I do, but I think it is available to some and not to many. The nation can’t survive where you have $14 trillion in my district in Silicon Valley... and half the other country de-industrialized or dependent on the federal government. That is just not viable.” —Ro Khanna
- Points to justified feelings: High youth unemployment, crippling rent, student debt, lack of child care, decimated factory towns.
- “...It’s not just that people feel the American Dream is slipping away. It’s that their feelings are justified.”
The Roots of Inequality & Industrial Decline
[07:27]
- Khanna traces decline to the hollowing out of industrial America:
- Nafta, China’s entry to WTO, deregulation led to flight of industry and local decline.
- Calls for a Marshall Plan for America, not just others:
- Quote [08:13]: “Ike said we need a 21st-century Marshall Plan. Not for Europe, not for Asia—for America.”
Explosive Wealth vs. Widening Gaps
[08:36]
- Steve notes the irony of immense wealth generation paired with widespread economic anxiety.
- “It kind of sometimes feels like there’s about three dudes who own the entire Internet and they live in your district.”
- Khanna rejects reliance on “the benevolence of tech leaders”; calls for “new economic patriotism.”
- Quote [09:11]: “We need Silicon Valley to be in service of America, not America to be in service of Silicon Valley.”
- Proposals: higher taxes on billionaires, universal free college and trade school, industry investment in left-behind towns, widespread tech and AI literacy.
- “If you don’t help build the country you’re going to face higher taxes and more regulation.”
AI, Technology, & Skills for the Future
[11:36]
- Steve raises anxiety over AI’s exponential curve—can the average person ever “catch up”?
- “It’s like trying to catch a rocket with a butterfly net.”
- Khanna responds:
- Emphasizes practical use of AI (“Using ChatGPT is not much harder than Google”), particularly as a tool for skilled trades, care work, and everyday jobs.
- Warns of need for regulation to prevent abuse, addiction, and job destruction.
- Quote [12:31]: “To be able to use the AI... is probably not much harder than to be able to learn how to use Google or to learn how to use a smartphone.” —Ro Khanna
Crypto, Finance, and Democratization
[18:42]
- Steve questions whether crypto is an engine for democratizing wealth, or just a new layer of inequality.
- “It feels like it’s just kind of creating a whole new set of overlords...”
- Khanna sees legitimate use for crypto (efficient payments) but not as a solution to inequality.
- “I think that would be a false promise.”
- Argues for structural policy: health care, child care, jobs, industry—not speculative assets.
- Steve expresses fear that crypto will deepen inequality.
- Khanna validates the concern and underscores need for regulation:
- Quote [21:27]: “If it’s speculation, some people will make money and other people may lose, and that is a valid fear... it needs to be regulated.”
- Khanna validates the concern and underscores need for regulation:
Reclaiming Dignity in the Digital Age
[24:32]–[25:58]
- Steve pivots to how “dignity” is threatened by technology.
- Khanna outlines digital dignity:
- Control over your own data and privacy.
- Meaningful work and local opportunity.
- A say in your workplace; protection from constant surveillance.
- Quote [24:51]: “It means you should have a say in your workplace about your safety, your pride, your use of technology. You can’t just be surveilled on it with having machines tell you when you’re checking out, when you’re leaving. You should have some ownership, some sense of equity in what you’re producing.” —Ro Khanna
Remaining Human Online & Digital Public Life
[26:52]–[33:32]
- Steve asks: “How do we stay human in an Internet optimized for conflict?”
- Khanna compares the current age to the Industrial Revolution:
- Argues for digital “labor laws”: protections for privacy, against algorithmic addiction, for worker voice.
- Kids’ Online Safety Act is cited as urgent but stymied.
- Cites philosopher Habermas and the “public sphere.”
- Conversation and rational deliberation historically shaped democracy; cynicism and outrage have replaced engagement online.
- Major barriers: people don’t believe civil online dialogue will matter, so vent frustration instead.
Politics as Entertainment; The Erosion of Substance
[36:46]–[42:18]
- Steve observes that politics now resembles sports or entertainment—conflict is spectacle, humor is prized, substance is rare.
- Khanna agrees: “The best path to being a modern politician is...go do stand-up comedy and then go into politics.”
- Loss of trust, relentless cynicism, and ridicule erode seriousness and multi-layered humanity in public life.
- Family gatherings are multi-dimensional, but politics has lost that depth.
Local vs. National Engagement & Online Community
[41:21]–[46:15]
- Steve questions: Are we “too politically engaged” but at the wrong levels?
- Can name national drama, but not local representatives—true engagement is shallow.
- Khanna laments reading/writing less, lack of rootedness; attacking Ted Cruz online is easier than attending a local school board.
- Wonders if the Internet could fulfill the town square promise.
- Suggests “living room” video conversations—small groups, personal stories—as a possible format to restore shared humanity online.
Modeling Conversational Respect, Even Across Differences
[46:15]–[50:06]
- Steve compliments Khanna for speaking with adversaries respectfully; asks how to be persuasive when others refuse to be.
- Khanna:
- Real conversation breaks down “guarded talking points” and creates space for learning and growth.
- Key: Good persuasion is based in good listening.
- Inspired by his grandfather and the Gandhian tradition: Satyagraha/truth-force—persist in reason, trust it will eventually connect emotionally even in resistance.
- Cautions against escalating polarization: “...we should try to model some of them, especially at this time.”
Is There Hope for the American Dream?
[50:06]–[53:02]
- Steve seeks optimism; Khanna is conditionally hopeful:
- Unless policy meaningfully addresses extreme wealth concentration and deprivation, the Dream will erode further.
- But rising anger could fuel major reform—higher taxes, guaranteed health care, affordable education, real jobs.
- The democratic process must listen to the pain and frustration driving current anger, not just dismiss or ignore it.
- Quote [52:47]: “The lesson of Trump... it’s easy to just talk about the politics. It’s sort of like, what are people trying to tell us? They’re really angry, they’re really hurt, they’re really frustrated. And are we registering that?”
- Steve: “Maybe we need a technology that listens, or maybe we need to bring listening to technology as we navigate the sort of fraught future of the American dream.”
On Changing Incentives & Fostering Positive Online Dialogue
[53:47]–[56:55]
- Khanna asks: thoughtful, non-sensational content gets far less attention than outrage—how do we incentivize depth and civility?
- Steve responds: vulnerability, care, and earnest listening can cut through and resonate, even online.
- “I have to believe the opposite is also possible... that if we bring our full selves to this conversation, I think that will also get views. I’m sure hoping.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “We need Silicon Valley to be in service of America, not America to be in service of Silicon Valley.” —Ro Khanna [09:11]
- “To be able to use the AI... is probably not much harder than to be able to learn how to use Google or to learn how to use a smartphone.” —Ro Khanna [12:31]
- “The nation can’t survive where you have $14 trillion in my district in Silicon Valley... and half the other country de-industrialized or dependent on federal government. That is just not viable.” —Ro Khanna [06:00]
- “Good persuasion has to be good listening... My willingness to talk to almost anyone is that I genuinely believe I can learn from almost anyone.” —Ro Khanna [47:57]
- “What people are losing in dignity in America is one, a loss of control over our own information and secondly, a loss of control when we go into the workplace.” —Ro Khanna [25:51]
- “It seems like we need to show up with a version of ourselves that is prepared to accept flaws in someone else, that’s prepared to accommodate a respectful conversation like the one that we’re having.” —Steve Burns [31:13]
- “Maybe we need a technology that listens, or maybe we need to bring listening to technology...” —Steve Burns [53:02]
- “The democratic process has to listen.” —Ro Khanna [52:47]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:13–06:00 — Framing the American Dream: Past vs. Present Reality
- 06:00–09:11 — Wealth Concentration, Loss of Opportunity, and Justified Discontent
- 09:11–11:36 — Tech’s Power, Need for Economic Patriotism, and Policy Responses
- 11:36–13:55 — AI, Technology, and Equitable Access to Opportunity
- 18:42–23:36 — Crypto, Inequality, Regulation, and Democratizing Wealth
- 24:32–25:58 — Digital Dignity: Work, Data, and Privacy in the New A
- 26:52–33:32 — Remaining Human: Internet, Conflict, and Public Sphere
- 36:46–42:18 — Politics, Performative Conflict, and Erosion of Substance
- 41:21–46:15 — Local vs. National Politics; The Lost Promise of the Internet as Town Square
- 46:15–50:06 — Persuasion Across Divides, The Power of Listening, and Gandhi’s Influence
- 50:06–53:02 — Is Optimism Warranted? What Might Trigger a New Era of Reform?
- 53:47–56:55 — Deep Dialogue vs. Viral Outrage: Can Civil Conversations Gain Traction?
Takeaways
- The American Dream isn’t dead, but it’s on life support—available to an ever-shrinking segment, trapped by inequality and technological change.
- Policy remedies can work, if we’re ambitious: tax reform, universal health care and education, investment in left-behind places, digital rights, and regulation.
- Technology’s promise must be matched by reforms protecting dignity, data, democracy, and opportunity for all, not just those in the know.
- True progress, in both politics and public life, relies on prioritizing listening, respecting difference, and more thoughtful human engagement—both online and off.
Closing Thought
The future of the American Dream “will certainly be digitized in some way... but in a democratic process that truly listens to those who are dreaming the dream, it’s not too late. The future is still up to us.” —Steve Burns [58:44]