Listen Again: Keeping It Unapologetically Real with Jamie Lee Curtis

Summary

Alive with Steve Burns – "Listen Again: Keeping It Unapologetically Real with Jamie Lee Curtis"

Podcast: Alive with Steve Burns
Host: Steve Burns (Lemonada Media)
Guest: Jamie Lee Curtis
Release Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode of "Alive with Steve Burns" centers around the concept of authenticity, self-acceptance, and what it means to show up as your real, imperfect self, particularly in the modern media landscape. Steve welcomes Jamie Lee Curtis—a multi-award-winning actor, children’s book author, and outspoken advocate—into a candid and intimate dialogue. Together, they reflect on personal growth, social expectations, sobriety, online life, and the challenges and rewards of living unapologetically real.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Questioning Self-Acceptance and Authenticity

• Steve Burns opens with reflections on the complexity of self-acceptance in a world where we're constantly presenting different versions of ourselves:
  • "Most days I would say, yeah, I think I generally like myself. That wasn't always true, God knows. But nowadays, sure." (01:05)
  • The difficulty in discerning the “real me” due to constant self-curation and concern over others' perceptions.

2. Jamie Lee Curtis on Media, Podcasts & Authentic Connection

• Jamie muses on the evolution of podcasts from audio-only to heavily produced, camera-ready affairs, humorously objecting to visual performance:
  • "If it's a podcast, why do we have to be on camera?...And they're lit like bitches… I'm coming in...where I'm not lit." (05:34)
• She expresses deep appreciation for Steve’s intentional moments of calm and gratitude:
  • "Whenever you put into our brains a moment of calm, a moment of gratitude for nature...for me, that's enough." (06:12)

3. The Internet’s Double-Edged Sword

• Both discuss the performative pressure of online life and its optimization for attention and conflict:
  • "It is optimized for conflict and it is optimized to steal your attention." — Steve (08:59)
  • Jamie reminisces about how media, like The View, shifted from generational dialogue to conflict-driven content. (09:09 - 09:56)

4. Authenticity versus Branding

• Steve praises Jamie for her perceived authenticity, noting how people respond positively to her genuine presence.
• Jamie pushes back, expressing concern about being "branded" as authentic:
  • "I have to be really clear that I don't let myself become the brand of authenticity because I'm human and I am flawed...it has to be fluid." (11:22)
• Both agree that “human” is a more honest, forgiving term than “authentic.”
  • "Human beings are flawed and contradictory." — Jamie (12:31)

5. Sobriety, Family, and Self-Discovery

• Steve asks about Jamie’s transformation—she credits getting sober as a critical inflection point:
  • "Under the lash of alcoholism and drug addiction, I was not free, really free to be me." (14:14)
• Jamie introduces the idea of being a 'high bottom' addict—her struggles were invisible to others but eroded her self-respect:
  • "If you really are a kind of high bottom...the thing you've lost is your self respect." (15:00)

6. Letting Go of Others’ Opinions

• Steve wants to know if Jamie truly doesn’t “give a shit” about public opinion:
  • "Do you really not give a...? ...How did you get there? I want to get there. I give a lot of shits." (20:10)
• Jamie shares her philosophy:
  • "What you think of me is none of my business." (20:20)
  • Recognizes it’s impossible to please everyone, especially as a public figure with strong beliefs (e.g., being pro-choice, having a trans daughter).
  • Stresses the importance of listening and seeking common ground.

7. Living a Full, Creative Life

• Jamie reflects on coming into her own later in life and finally having the agency to follow her ideas:
  • "I've been waiting my whole life for that. My whole life. I'm 67 this year." (23:47)
• She also describes her youthful ambition to become a police officer before pursuing acting. (24:09)

8. Art, Storytelling & ‘The Bear’

• Steve and Jamie discuss her Emmy-winning role in The Bear and how the holiday episode resonated on a personal, visceral level.
• Jamie gives credit to the writers for the show's authentic representation of flawed families and human pain:
  • "Clearly the mother has a huge impact on her children… it was a miracle for me, and I'm continually grateful for it." (27:08)
• Jamie opens up about recognizing herself as an artist only recently, especially after working on Everything Everywhere All at Once:
  • "I am part of an art form. And you know, to go from that and then to The Bear, I get it." (31:26)

9. Children’s Literature & Human Lessons

• Steve praises Jamie’s children’s books for their emotional honesty:
  • "They are beautiful… will be the best distillation of who I am and what I think." — Jamie (32:27)
• Jamie reads a heartfelt excerpt from her book Is There Really a Human Race?, encapsulating her philosophy on compassion, kindness, and making bold choices:
  • "Shouldn't it be looking back at the end that you judge your own race by the help that you lend?" (35:01)

10. Creative Inspiration, Vulnerability, & the Flow of Ideas

• Jamie tells the stories behind how her books Where Do Balloons Go? and Is There Really a Human Race? were inspired by her children and moments of everyday wonder and pain.
  • "I really don't understand where it comes from, but I know that it's my best thing." (35:59)
• She likens her creative process to the flow state experienced by improvisers and rappers.
• On children's literature: Jamie considers her books as unintentional "self-help" for kids, grounded in emotional honesty and vulnerability.

11. Spending Attention Wisely

• Steve ends with a reflection on choosing where to put one's limited attention:
  • "You can spend it on outrage and the world feels angrier. You can spend it on kindness, the world feels a little softer...what will you spend your attention on today?" (44:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On authenticity as a brand:

  "I have to be really clear that I don't let myself become the brand of authenticity because I'm human and I am flawed."
  — Jamie Lee Curtis (11:22)

• On letting go of others’ opinions:

  "What you think of me is none of my business."
  — Jamie Lee Curtis (20:20)

• On purpose and self-realization:

  "Now I have my own mind. It's actually my mind."
  — Jamie Lee Curtis (13:52)

• On children's literature as legacy:

  "The thing that will last the longest will be the books that I wrote for children. They will be the best distillation of who I am and what I think."
  — Jamie Lee Curtis (32:16 - 32:27)

• Excerpt from Is There Really a Human Race?

  "Shouldn’t it be that you just try your best/ And that's more important than beating the rest./ Shouldn’t it be looking back at the end/ That you judge your own race by the help that you lend?/..."
  — Jamie Lee Curtis (35:00 - 35:36)

• On spending your attention:

  "Your attention is basically a currency. And what you spend it on matters… what will you spend your attention on today?"
  — Steve Burns (44:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:05 – Steve reflects on self-acceptance and the "real me"
• 05:34 – Jamie Lee Curtis riffs on camera-ready podcast culture
• 06:48 - 07:22 – Jamie on "be where your feet are" and moments of calm
• 09:09 – Jamie and Steve critique conflict-driven media
• 11:22 - 12:31 – The pitfalls of becoming “branded” as authentic
• 14:14 - 16:20 – Jamie on sobriety, family addiction, and the meaning of "high bottom"
• 20:10 - 20:27 – Discussing the importance of not caring about others’ opinions
• 27:08 – Jamie on the depth and miracle of her role in The Bear
• 29:00 - 31:26 – Jamie’s journey to seeing herself as an artist
• 32:16 - 35:36 – Jamie reads from Is There Really a Human Race?
• 35:59 - 39:48 – Origin stories for Jamie's children’s books
• 44:46 – Steve on the value of attention

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Conclusion

This episode is marked by warmth, humor, candor, and genuine vulnerability. Jamie Lee Curtis offers deep personal insights without self-aggrandizement, emphasizing the ongoing work of self-acceptance and the importance of being "human" above all else—flaws, contradictions, and all. Steve Burns draws out powerful reflections about letting go of others’ judgments, living with purpose, and leaving a legacy rooted in compassion and art—reminding listeners, as Jamie does, to "be where your feet are.”

Transcript

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Lemonada.

[Steve Burns]

Alive with Steve Burns. Hey, there you are. Hi. Come on in. Welcome to Alive. It's very good to see you. So I got a question for you today. You ready? Do you like who you are? Yeah, yeah, I. I know, I know. There's tea. I'm making tea. Do you want some tea? Let's have some tea. So somebody asked me that question just the other day, and I honestly didn't know how to answer them. I think I said something like, it's complicated. Which is true if you think about it, because most days I would say, yeah, I think I generally like myself. That wasn't always true, God knows. But nowadays, sure, I think so. But it varies still a little bit. Day to day, moment to moment, mood to mood. Does that make sense? Yeah, but what makes it all really tricky is that we all have so many versions of ourself to like or not like now. You know what I mean? For example, there's the me that my family knows, and that is totally different, you know, a lot of ways from the me when I'm at work or the me when I'm online, for example, which is like a whole other thing. And then there's the me me that nobody sees. Here you go. So we're always curating in a way. We're always sort of presenting these different versions of ourself for other people. And I guess they're all supposed to be authentic, whatever that means. And if I'm honest, I don't even think I know which one is the real me most of the time, because I'm constantly clocking what other people are thinking. Do you do that? Yeah, I. I mean, I'm always editing, I'm always adapting. I'm always like shrinking or expanding or pruning myself to meet other people's expectations. And that can get exhausting. It can really get to you, you know? And so today I was wondering, what would it be like if we didn't do that? What would it be like if we stopped caring so much about what other people thought? What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Come on.

[Steve Burns]

Okay. Jamie Lee Curtis can apparently do everything she is. I mean, what do you even say? She's a radically authentic, multi generational, complete badass. She. She's an award winning actor, former screen queen. She is one of my favorite children's book authors. And for a minute there, she made poop yogurt totally glamorous. Imagine being able to do that. She also won an Academy award, we all know, for everything, everywhere, all at once. And an Emmy for the bear. And I am only two seasons into the bear, and I will tell you that the holiday episode nearly took me out. And I mean it. Like, it messed me up. Okay. But she also apparently stopped giving a shit about what people think of her years ago. And that is my favorite thing about her. She's. She's here. Okay. Oh, hello. Hello, hello, Hello. Jamie Lee Curtis.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

That was a laudatory introduction.

[Steve Burns]

You deserve to be lauded.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I don't know about that. I think everybody deserves to be lauded. Just some people get a lot more louding than others.

[Steve Burns]

I agree. I agree with you, actually, but. But I. I am thrilled and honored to loud you because I think you are truly awesome.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Is this called a podcast?

[Steve Burns]

Yeah, but it's really like a public access cable show from the 90s. That's the way I'm seeing it. You know what I mean?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

But I do. But here's my beef. Can I just.

[Steve Burns]

Beef. Beef.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

If it's a podcast, why do we have to be on camera? So I agree that it's more like a public access television. I just think it's hilarious that everybody has a podcast. Not everybody, but people have podcasts now. And they asked me to do it, and I'm like, great, pick a day. And then I'm like, but it's not on camera, right? And I go, oh, yeah, it is. And. And they're lit like bitches. You know what I mean? Like, they're. They've been. They brought in professional lighting people, and they have the earphones and the microphones and their chairs at the right height. And I'm coming in. In my house, you know, where I'm not lit.

[Steve Burns]

How you doing?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And I have. Exactly. And I have no makeup team here. And I just. So it's that world of. Of that. Anyway, what I was going to say to you is I am absolutely calmed whenever you put into the portal, into our brains a moment of calm, a moment of gratitude for nature, a moment of being where. You know my. One of my favorite phrases in recovery is be where your feet are.

[Steve Burns]

Oh, I like that.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Because we are in our effing heads.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

So much of. Of our lives. And I'm so buoyed by every time you offer. A moment by a river, a moment in a field, a moment of calm, quiet reflection of this miracle moment, this moment with you. And I'm like, for me, that's enough. I mean, I'm happy to be here with you in your cabin in the woods, but you know what I'm saying?

[Steve Burns]

Well, we do that here on the podcast too. This podcast has like a ton of silence in it. It's. There's like a. There's a ton of listening. I call it the podcast that listens. You know what I mean?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Clever.

[Steve Burns]

But. But you asked before, like, why do we have to be on camera? That's for me, that's why. Right. This making this connection to this weird little pinhole camera that then goes to outer space and then goes to you, making that feel viable and immediate is the one thing in this world I have 10,000 hours of doing. Right. That's the only thing I can do.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. Far out. Far out. Yeah.

[Steve Burns]

And I did like a little shout out video during the pandemic that I didn't write. I just improv it. And I was like, hey, what's up? Remember when we used to hang out and what. And it was just a very, very simple, care driven, quiet, relaxed conversation and it blew up and that made me realize, oh, this, this thing is. This is missing in this technology. Right.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. You know, they call me a weapon of mass promotion because I can sell shit. This, what we're doing and selling it is the purpose of the Internet.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And some recipes and some research and occasionally acts of kindness that you see that the portal bring to you, that you realize that there are kind and beautiful people in the world. The rest of it.

[Steve Burns]

I mean, it could be about those things, but, man, I could talk about this forever, but, like, it is optimized for conflict and it is optimized to steal your attention.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

It's sort of already doing it. And if you just even look at unreality television, as you said, it's, it's. It is born out of let's create a situation so we can create conflict.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I remember when the View.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Was a TV show in its infancy.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

With five generations of women sharing their experiences from their generational point of view.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And their cultural point of view. Yeah.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

But in a loving way. And obviously what it has turned into is still a good show and there's still good voices on it, but it's really born for conflict now.

[Steve Burns]

It is. Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And they. That. And it is fed. The more conflict, the more, as you said, attention. So I'm, I'm aware of that tendency in, in the universe.

[Steve Burns]

I think we just have to humanize this interaction.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Well, we are.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah, we are. And you do. Right. And you are actually a shining example, especially lately, I think, of a human person who is in the media. It's like, oh, yeah, I recognize that as A person. You're a giant celebrity, but you're also very human and incredibly authentic and incredibly relatable through all of these lenses. Right. And that is a rare thing that we just don't see a lot of that. And with you, it seems like people seem to love you more the less you seem to perform, you know, in these environments, and the less you kind of conform to whatever the media expectations are. People cheer for that. And I think you're an example of that. An example of authenticity and for being just a real freaking person. Don't you think?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. Yeah. The thing I have to avoid is getting branded.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

As authentic.

[Steve Burns]

There you go.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yep. Because a brand, if you think about what. What really a brand. If when you actually use the word brand.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You're taking something really hot.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And you're searing it into the skin of an animal.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Or a person. And you're claiming it in an ownership way. And I have to be really clear that I don't let myself become the brand of authenticity because I'm human and I am flawed. And I get really angry and I get really, really sad at times, and it's that I don't get locked into some box of authenticity that it has to have. It has to be fluid.

[Steve Burns]

I feel you. I am same. I actually don't like the word authentic very much for that reason. I think it's overused. I think human is a much better word.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Human. Well, because human beings are flawed and contradictory.

[Steve Burns]

Right. I worry that I'm going to disappoint people simply by being a regular human being, which is a weird, weird thing to think. So I think we need to regularize human beings on the Internet. That's what I think.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. I don't disagree with you. And. But at the same time, we also get to do our life's purpose.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Like I'm not also trying to do this to. To, you know, I'm doing me. And the more I get to do me in the way I feel is naturally me, without the conforming of. There's a. There's an el doctoral quote that talks about things getting calcified. When things become sort of mythological, old ideas become mythological. You know, in families, they. They become very powerful and they create conformity and they intimidate. And I feel like my whole life there was a lot of that. And to emerge from it with my own mind, with my own soul, with my own creativity, with my own artistry, with my own talent. Whatever. Whatever. And however that is, because I was not that person in My early life, that was not my path. And so now I have my own mind. It's actually my mind.

[Steve Burns]

What changed?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Well, getting sober was, was a big aspect of it. Under the lash of alcoholism and drug addiction, I was not free, really free to be me. And getting sober was a big step in that direction. Conquering a family. Long generationally long list of family members who fell into the lash of drug addiction, alcoholism, whatever level of that you want to claim it. I'm very lucky. I was a very high bottom person and it was secreted.

[Steve Burns]

What does that term mean, high bottom?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Just. Well, a low bottom means that you've crashed and burned your life, you're, you've lost your relationship, the children have been taken, you've lost your job, your family doesn't speak to, you know, you're in debt. You know, that's a low bottom. And high bottom is someone who managed not to lose their marriage, their family, their wealth, their work, their family members, you know, their extended family, their friends. But what makes high bottoms really tricky is the thing you've lost is your self respect.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

That if you really are a kind of high bottom user, drinker, whatever it means, nobody really sees it. So the dance is really in here. It's not. You know, they say in recovery, the most dangerous neighborhood to go in is between this air and this year. You know, that, that, that should, you should go. What is it like, buddy breathing? You know, you always should go with a friend. So if you're going into your brain, you should go with a friend.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Because it can be a really dark place. And if you're a high bottom, you're.

[Steve Burns]

Hiding it really, really, really well and effectively. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Oh, no, I mean masterfully, masterfully yourself.

[Steve Burns]

And that's, that's sustaining. Right. Like you're able to pull it off for a really long time because.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

A really long time.

[Steve Burns]

Because you don't crash and burn. You're just sort of maintained.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. And the paparazzi don't have pictures of you asleep in your car or stumbling out of a bar.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah, for sure. Look, I know you're wildly busy and I know that because literally everyone is. And that's why I appreciate anything that can quietly make my life easier. And that's where MyDEA comes in. They make genuinely wow worthy appliances. They take the work off your plate. Like they've got that one touch autofill French door fridge. You press a button. Boop. Fills your cup perfectly. Like the Jetsons and their dishwashers have a three stage total drying system. And they even pop open when you're done. The future is here. And the MyDea range, well, it's five burners, three racks, and endless possibilities. So whether you're actually cooking or just really want to look like you're actually cooking, the point is, when the everyday stuff takes care of itself, you get time back for you and for your people and for doing absolutely nothing. And that is a win. So go to mydea.com to see how you can bring home a little wow today.

[Julia Louis Dreyfus]

That's mydea.com Hiya, Julia Louis Dreyfus here from the Wiser Than Me podcast, among other things. And I've got a bit of a hot take. Our relationship to our food can feel disconnected. We don't always know how or where our food is grown. And if we throw food scraps in the garbage, we don't think about where it's going. Or at least we try not to. One way that I get back a little of that connection is by using my mill food recycler. Sure, Mill has totally changed my home life in a lot of practical ways. It works automatically. You can fill it for weeks. It never, ever smells. But this is also really important. When I use mill, I'm participating in a circular system. All the food I don't eat is helping to grow the food that I do. It makes me feel like I'm part of something bigger. And that feels really, really good. And it's all so ridiculously easy. I just drop my scraps in my mill and it transforms them into nutrient rich grounds overnight. I have mine sent to a small farm, but if I wanted to, I could use them in my garden for my backyard chickens if I wanted backyard chickens. And I don't know, maybe I do now, maybe I don't. Anyway, maybe mill is transforming me too, just a little. If you want to feel more connected or you just want your kitchen to feel less gross, try Mill's risk free trial and just live with it for a while. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Rachel Banner]

Hey, I'm Rachel Banner. And I'm Ari McDonald. And welcome to Ari and Rachel Unfiltered at Unrivaled a show where we give.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You all you need to know from Unrivaled and more.

[Rachel Banner]

This season, we're talking to some of the best athletes. I'm trying to watch my language.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You good be you.

[Rachel Banner]

It's unfiltered. That's what we're here for. And coaches in women's basketball like Paige Beckers and Leroux. Hey, it's Paige. Hi, it's Lee and celebrity Unrivaled Fans about Games news. All for the fans to learn more about our journey and the folks who make Unrivaled the great league it is. I'm super unfiltered. Aerie's gonna be super unfiltered. Cause I'm going to force her to be. We'll also be talking to you and answering your questions. So tune in every Thursday and find us on social and all your favorite podcast platform.

[Steve Burns]

So do you really not give a. You seem like you don't give a. Do you? And. And if so, how did you get there? I want to get there. I give a lot of shits.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You know what I try not to give a about is that what you think of me is none of my business.

[Steve Burns]

Right. I have heard that before, and I can't get my brain around it. You know, I think I intellectually understand it, but I can't. I can't plug that in.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. I really do have to operate in a world where it's impossible for everyone to like me. I am pro choice. I have a trans daughter. There are people in this country who. Who are, you know, actively trying to stop her possibility of existing or. Or denying her existence who are on the opposite end of the political spectrum from me, who don't like me at all. Yeah, I'm trying to be quietly political. And I mean that simply to say, I don't want to just be a screaming, yeah, political person. I want to listen. I want to find common ground. I believe we can find common ground. And how do we make that happen? And I just think that's the way in. And then. So in that sense, I think it's just important to keep an open mind, understand that a lot of people are not going to like you, and also understand that people can also, you know, be very much in the same path as you and feel allied. You know, I. Almost every day to someone, I write the words the long and winding road. For me, the long and winding road means we're both on it. And I'm glad we're both on it, that I'm. I'm on it with you. I'm on it with you right now. Steve Burns.

[Steve Burns]

Same. You're just amazing. I love you. You're awesome.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I love you too, Steve Burns.

[Steve Burns]

And I mean the moment right now. You are literally everywhere. I mean, I've.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I'm everything everywhere all at once.

[Steve Burns]

I wasn't gonna do it. I wasn't gonna do it.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Why not?

[Steve Burns]

I decided not to do it. I was like, you know what? I won't do that. I'll not do that.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

But the other way to say it is, I'm ubiquitous, but I prefer everything everywhere all at once.

[Steve Burns]

It sounds better, for sure. I think I'm missing stuff, too. Like, I was writing this. This. This little bio to introduce you. I'm like. I'm thinking there's, like, four or five other things going on. There's the reboot. There's the freak your Friday.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. But you know what? Guess what? I didn't come here to sell anything.

[Steve Burns]

I know. Yeah. I'm not. I'm not so much trying to point to projects you're doing as more as. I'm just saying, like, this is a human person with a gajillion eyeballs on them. You know, this is a person with.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I've just finished Hustle, where I've had a gazillion jillion eyeballs.

[Steve Burns]

You were on a world tour, right?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I did a world tour for Freakier Friday.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And, you know, that's a. It's. I haven't done one of those in a minute. And it was a hustle. It was definitely a hustle. It was successful, and Lindsay and I had a great time.

[Steve Burns]

Right.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And I get to be a boss, and I get to have ideas and go, oh, what about that? Oh, what about this? And I'm. I've been waiting my whole life for that. My whole life. I'm 67 this year.

[Steve Burns]

Are you really?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yeah. In a month or two.

[Steve Burns]

Did I read somewhere that you wanted to be a cop?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I got out of high school. I crawled out of high school.

[Steve Burns]

Okay.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And thought the best use of me would be to be a police officer. That I have a very strong backbone of law and order.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And I believe I'm a good person. And I thought I'd be. I'd make a good cop.

[Steve Burns]

Is it weird that I can see it and that it makes a form of sense? Like, I can't explain why, but I'm like, oh, yeah, I see that. I see that. I can see that happening. I am personally very glad that you became an actress, though. I have, you know, we've talked. I've. You know, I'm a fan, but I do want to talk, if you don't mind, just for a second, about the bear, because I'm only two seasons in, so I'm kind of saving the rest of it, and I. Everyone has told me what to expect, and I'm like, don't talk about it, but the holiday episode kind of took me out. It kind of makes me emotional because, like, I almost didn't like it. I almost didn't want to see it, you know?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You almost didn't want to see that episode.

[Steve Burns]

I was like, this is making me uncomfortable. You know, you got so close to something there. And I didn't grow up around alcoholism. I didn't. But I grew up in a volatile place where someone could control the weather and. And make you wonder what was gonna. Is it gonna be okay? You know, and that episode was so on. It is so. It's just so visceral and in the guts that there's honestly just a handful of those performances that I even can place it with, you know? But that's the awesome thing about TV right now. There's so much awesome tv.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I mean, there's awesome tv.

[Steve Burns]

And that show is like. That's. That show is about human people, you know, but that's.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

But see, that's the point.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

What I love about the show, and it's really. It's Chris Storer, who. It's his writing and his directing. I mean, there are other people that write. Joanna Collar writes with him, and other people have written, obviously, episodes, but for the most part, it's Chris. And what I'm particularly happy about is that, like, you. You enter this world, and you have no idea who these people are to begin with. So just from the beginning, starting a show from scratch, and then you meet this family, and all of a sudden you go, okay, yeah, the brother died. Okay. And you start to piece together the story. And I love that you hear about Donna.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

But you. But you don't meet her for 16 episodes of the show.

[Steve Burns]

It's quite a buildup that for a.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Long time, you're watching the result. Not of hers alone, because I don't think. I think it's a combination of factors, but clearly the mother has a huge impact on her children, and then the concentric circles that come off of those relationships, and I just thought it was. I mean, it was a miracle for me, and I'm continually grateful for it. And I'm. You know, the fact that I ended up getting to do that is a little bit of a miracle. So it was a really extraordinary experience for me.

[Steve Burns]

It was extraordinary. It was extraordinary to watch. It was extraordinary to watch. Yeah. I can. I mean, it was some of the most connected things I've ever seen in my entire life.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Changing.

[Chelsea Clinton]

Do you ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines, and just thinking.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

That can't be true.

[Chelsea Clinton]

Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous far fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026? I'm Chelsea Clinton and we're back with season two of my podcast, that Can't Be True. Follow along and catch up on season one. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Steve Burns]

I heard you say somewhere and it surprised me that you only recently started to consider yourself an artist.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Well, I said that on television.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You know, I revere art, I revere storytelling. I am a music maniac. I listen to music all day long. Musical poets. You know, Kendrick Lamar is a frickin poet. Joni Mitchell is a poet. James Taylor's a poet. Art, painting, photography, design, cooking, it's all an art form. Being in the movies, being in the horror movies and doing, being an actor, I just didn't feel the art of it. I felt like I was a part of something that was great and entertaining and fun, but I didn't, I didn't really think about it as an art form. And I think everything everywhere all at once changed that. Because I saw it was a work of art from the beginning, I could tell it was a work of art. And I'm not sure I even accepted that I was an artist in it, but I understood that this was an art form. I didn't understand the art form. I didn't understand really the story. You know, when I learned what the story was about. When they were shooting the sequences in the Laundromat.

[Steve Burns]

Yep.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

There was the sequence where Kee Quan and Michelle reunite. And I remember watching it on the monitors with the Daniels and I remember watching it and then like halfway through that scene I went, the movie's about love. Oh, the movie's about love. And it, I realized in a way at that moment I recognized that it was the greatest art form. Right. It combines all the things I just said to you. Poetry, music, like it's painting, design, all combining into a motion picture that was a beautiful piece of art. And I think in that moment I recognized the art of it all and.

[Steve Burns]

And you felt I am part of that. I. This meets my criteria.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And I felt I am part of that. And I am a color in the painting and I'm a, you know, a note in the music. But I am part of an art form. And you know, to go from that and then to the bear, I now it, I get it, I get it. I don't take. It's not like I walk around, like with a hat.

[Steve Burns]

Hello, I am Jimmy Licates.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

You know, I am the world's greatest living actor. I'm not. I'm just saying it's an art form.

[Steve Burns]

I don't know. I've considered you an artist for a really long time, obviously because I'm a huge fan of, of, of your acting, but also your, your, your art for children. Your voice for children is tremendous and special.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

They are my best thing, for sure.

[Steve Burns]

I have, I have a bunch.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

The thing that will last the longest will be the books that I wrote for children.

[Steve Burns]

They are beautiful.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

They will be the best distillation of who I am and what I think.

[Steve Burns]

Balloons made me cry snot onto my shirt.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

So balloons. The last four pages of Balloons. So balloons. For the uninitiated is a book called where do Balloons? An Uplifting Mystery. And it's a book about wonder and it's a book about loss and letting go. Oh, you're showing the book. That's so cute. You're such a good person.

[Steve Burns]

I love this book.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

There's also a book that I wrote called Is There Really a Human Race? Which is a book about competition.

[Steve Burns]

Oh, it's smart.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Yes. It's a book about. It uses a race as a metaphor for. Is this what life is? Is it just something we're. Is it about winning and losing and competition and do we elbow each other out of the way? And what is it that. Is it a dash? Is it a long thing? Like what are. And this child is very, very concerned and very freaked out. And the, you know, this child, a little boy asks the mother, it's like, you know, is it. Is. Is it a long race or is it a lifelong dash? If we don't help each other, we're all going to crash. And the child is now panicked that he was entered into the human race, but didn't know that it was just nothing but a shitty like reality show competition, you know, and that it was all about surviving and that we weren't going to survive because we were. We were all out for ourselves. And what does that mean? That means we're going to crash.

[Steve Burns]

Right? Right.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

If we can't. And then the mother calms the child who clearly sees that he's asking these huge existential mind bending questions about human beings and what we're doing in the world. And the mommy says this, she says, sometimes it's better not to go fast. They're beautiful sights to be seen when you're last.

[Steve Burns]

Come on.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Shouldn't it be that you just try Your best. And that's more important than beating the rest. Shouldn't it be looking back at the end that you judge your own race by the help that you lend? So take what's inside you and make big, bold choices. And for those who can't speak for themselves, use bold voices and make friends and love well and bring art to this place and make the world better for the whole human race.

[Steve Burns]

Jamie, that's so beautiful. That's so hard to do.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

That's my best thing. Oh, that is the best thing I will ever do. Steve Burns.

[Steve Burns]

It's so good.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I don't know where they come from. You know, I really don't understand where it comes from, but I know that it's my best thing. And this was my little child coming home one day where clearly they were at school and someone said something shitty like, you shouldn't even be in the human race. And my kid came home. Ruby came home from school with this panicked look on her face, and she said to me, is there really a human race like you? Bitch, you didn't tell me that you entered me into a race that you didn't tell me I was in or on. And you were just going to stand over there while I, like, navigated this race track of life, and you didn't mention it was a race.

[Steve Burns]

Right.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And I literally went. I felt so awful that that's what she thought, that I walked in my house and I wrote that book in about 15 minutes.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah. Wow. Wow. I was going to ask you where all that comes from, and I'm not surprised to say you don't know. You know?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Oh, I have no idea. Yeah, I interviewed LL Cool J once because he was in a movie with me, and I interviewed him for Interview magazine. And I. I remember during the interview, I said, so you can just freestyle? And he said, yeah. I was like, okay. You mean you'd freestyle about mashed potatoes? Yeah, because we were at a restaurant and he did.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah, I believe that.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

I couldn't believe it. It's like the flow. The flow of a rapper, the flow of someone, a poet who can get into the flow of words and ideas is how I enter that space. Where do balloons go? We were at a kid's birthday party, and it was a very simple birthday party at a public park, and the kids were playing on the structures. The party itself were root beer floats, which is like a gallon thing of ice cream, a big thing of root beer and red solo cups. And the party favors were helium balloons tied to a pole. That was it. Was at a public park in the mountains in Idaho. And a storm came. Kind of turned black the sky. And we all took shelter under this sort of gazebo. And all of a sudden the wind whipped up and it got really intense. And a little kid was, like, tugging on the string of the balloons. And all of a sudden they were untied from the pole and they all shot out into the sky. And they were like, all these crayon colors against dark gray sky. And everybody went like. And we watched them dance and, like, move like crazy. And a little girl named Rachel Evans pulled on her mommy sweater, standing right next to me, and she said, mommy, where do balloons go? And I swear I was, like, struck by lightning. I felt like I was like, oh. And I grabbed Ruby and I ran to my car and I kind of put Ruby in the car seat. Drove home fast. Got Ruby out of the car seat, handed Ruby to Chris and said, don't talk to me. And I walked into a room, laid down on the floor and wrote where do balloons go? In about 15 minutes.

[Steve Burns]

See, that's wild. This was such a. I love this book.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

It's a great book. It's a great book.

[Steve Burns]

Have you ever heard of that saying, that which fortune gives us does not belong to us?

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

No, but I dig it. No, I totally love it.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah, it's like, I love exactly that. I believe that's true. I believe those things, they're not ours. You know, we were. They kind of choose us and we.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Do them, you know, I, I, I have to believe that. Because the last thing I thought I would do that day was write a book.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And then this moment happened. And then I laid down on a floor and wrote, where do balloons go when you let them go free? It can happen by accident. It's happened.

[Steve Burns]

It happened to me.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And then where do they go when they float far away? Do they ever catch cold? Need somewhere to stay? And of course, where they're staying in my book is the Bates Motel.

[Steve Burns]

They go to Bolivia and stuff. They go all over the world, don't they? I'm trying to remember. Yeah, well, you have an uncommon voice for this. Right. And I've developed over the years, I've developed strong opinions about content for children and, like, what, what works? And, And I always think it's about a game, you know, I think a lot of people don't bring their a game to kids stuff. And they don't bring what we were talking about before, which is this deeply human perspective. Like I always say, you gotta sing to the whole Child. Right. Most people give. Most people give kids yay. Or.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Oh.

[Steve Burns]

But they don't talk to them about loss. Right.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Well, somebody referred to these books as self help books for kids.

[Steve Burns]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Well, which I didn't. Which, it wasn't my intention. But my intention was also not to make something like, innocuous like it had to have. If the book doesn't make me cry, it's not my book.

[Steve Burns]

Right. I got you. I feel that. Yep. It's. You just include all of the human stuff. It has human ballast. It's four children, but it's full of human ballast. I always talk about how Bert. Bert is the most human character that lives on Sesame Street. He is much more human than Maria or Luis. I can imagine Bert at work. You know, like, Bert is not working.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

At work, by the way. Bert at work. Where's that book?

[Steve Burns]

That's a good book. Right? That dude does not move comfortably through the world. You know what I mean? No, like, and. And yet it's for kids, and yet it's awesome. I'm. You know, I don't want to keep you forever, Jamie. Actually, I do. I would like that, but I shan't do that.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

No, you shan't.

[Steve Burns]

I shan't. But. But you're incredibly amazing and incredibly wonderful and.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

And I'm happy to know you. And. And I'm happy to be alive with you. Steve Burns.

[Steve Burns]

Oh, my gosh. Thanks for dropping by. We really appreciate it.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

It's nice to see your cabin and to be in your cabin for a minute and.

[Steve Burns]

Well, you're welcome anytime.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Thank you. I look forward to coming back. Thanks for asking me and thanks for being. Thanks for your quietude and your reminders, which I pay attention to every time you offer one. I do. I take the moment. I actually take the moment for stillness and quietude.

[Steve Burns]

I love it. I love it. This was wonderful. Thank you, Jamie.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

God bless you. Take care and bye, everybody. Bye. See ya.

[Steve Burns]

Bye.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

No, don't close me down. No, nothing.

[Steve Burns]

Okay, full disclosure. I love Jamie Lee Curtis and I have for a very long time. So I got a little lost and I had like 200 more questions here to ask her. And I. And I did not get to them. But I did have a lovely time and I did learn lots of wonderful things. And I did write some stuff down. I wrote down be where your feet are. I like that one. I think, you know, obviously it means be in the moment. Be with the moment and with the people who are here now in front of you. And let all the uncontrollable stuff. Go be uncontrollable, like other people's opinions. Which brings me to the next thing I wrote down, which is what other people think of you is not your business. I've heard that before. It's one that I kind of struggle with. But. But I do think it's right. I mean, you can't. You literally can't control what everyone thinks of you all the time. You really can't make everyone happy everywhere, all the time, all at once.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

Wants.

[Steve Burns]

It's not a thing. So maybe it's not about giving no shits. Maybe it's about deciding which shits to give. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let's go. So the entire world is basically trying to influence you at all times, right? And that means that your attention is basically a currency. And what you spend it on matters. I mean, you can spend it on outrage and the world feels angrier. You can spend it on kindness. The world feels a little softer. And the thing is, you only have so much to spend. Right. It's a finite resource. So what will you spend your attention on today? Yeah, you know, I'm glad we're doing this. This is cool, this podcast. This is fun. Yeah. I'm looking forward to doing more. It's good to see you. Thanks for coming. You look great. Sa. Foreign. With Steve Burns is a Lemonada Media original. If you haven't subscribed to Lemon on a Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can listen to the show completely ad free, plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content from me as I reflect on this episode. Just press subscribe on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com Alive is hosted by me, Steve Burns, and produced by Jeremy Slutskin. Our editor is Christopher Champion Morgan. Our associate producer is Akshay Zurabailu. Audio engineering by James Sparber. Lemonada's SVP of weekly programming is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Jessica Cordover Kramer, Stephanie Whittles, Wax and me. We'll see you next week. And you look great, by the way.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads with Lemonada Premium, are you looking for ways.

[Jamie Lee Curtis]

To make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.