Podcast Summary: "The Emotionally Awkward Cost of Money"

Podcast: Alive with Steve Burns, Lemonada Media
Guest: Reema Khrais (Host of This Is Uncomfortable)
Date: November 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the complex, emotional dimensions of our relationship with money. Rather than focusing on practical financial advice, host Steve Burns and guest Reema Khrais discuss how money is never just about numbers – it’s about shame, safety, belonging, status, and the myriad emotions and stories we attach to it. They explore how our family backgrounds, cultural scripts, and social circumstances shape our money beliefs, often creating deeply ingrained anxieties or avoidances. The episode is reflective, candid, and filled with moments of vulnerability and humor as the pair try to untangle why money feels so fraught and personal.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Money as More Than Currency

00:02–05:44

• Steve kicks off noting everyone’s emotional baggage with money, calling it “never just money.” It’s a stand-in for security, dignity, self-worth, etc.
  • “Money’s never just money, right? It always represents something. Security, dignity. ...For many, it simply represents food for the next day.” (Steve, 00:37)
• Reema agrees, having built her podcast around these hidden emotional stories:
  • "Money is very emotional. Right. It's about scarcity and shame and guilt and love..." (Reema, 05:56)

2. Personal Stories & Early Conditioning

06:00–11:20

• Both hosts discuss how early family messages and cultural scripts create lasting money patterns:
  • Reema: Growing up in an immigrant, middle-class, frugal family—money talk was discouraged and private, creating adult anxiety and avoidance.
    • “That silence almost made me more anxious... Money was something to keep behind closed doors.” (Reema, 09:33)
  • Steve: Catholic upbringing fostered the idea that poverty is moral and wealth is suspect.

3. The Four Money Scripts

11:28–16:53

• Reema explains financial therapy’s four “money scripts”:

  • Money Avoidance: “The people... who ignore financial statements, equate money with greed, and avoid looking at their finances.”
  • Money Vigilance: On top of finances/anxious/savers.
  • Money Worship: Believe money will solve all problems, put work before relationships.
  • Money Status: Self-worth equals net worth, value outward displays.

• Steve reflects on his own “prejudices about money” and how scripts are rarely logical.

  "I have this dichotomy... It is evil. Those who have it are evil. To want it is evil. ...Also, I feel like it is the solution to every problem I have."
  —Steve, 08:25

4. Money as a Placeholder: What’s Really at Stake?

16:54–27:43

• Both agree that money is “neutral” but loaded with projected value and meaning—often unconsciously assigned.
• Individual experiences (family strife, past betrayals) and cultural scripts mean that when we talk about money, we’re often talking past each other, each using a different “emotional language.”
  • "What's at stake isn't math. It's like, often meaning, right?" (Reema, 27:43)

5. Emotional Literacy vs. Financial Literacy

28:41–40:58

• Steve questions whether financial literacy even matters if we're missing emotional literacy.

• Reema: Emotional awareness is foundational—knowing the “why” behind your choices enables true change.

  • Pro tips from behavioral psychologist Katie Milkman: To overcome inertia, gamify tasks, pair obligations with rewards, or even use accountability platforms (e.g., STICK).

  "Our brains aren’t wired to do these things. ...We really have to, like, fool ourselves to some extent in order to do the things we know we should do but don’t want to do."
  —Reema (quoting Milkman), 31:59

6. Generational Wealth & the Changing American Dream

33:14–37:55

• Steve voices generational anxiety—will the fabled “wealth transfer” ever reach those dealing with debt and precarity?
• Reema: Yes, wealth gaps have only widened—those with family help continue to get ahead, while others “quietly adjust” their dreams.
  • "The gap between what so many of us were promised ...versus what we actually got.”_ (Reema, 35:12)
• New “American dream” jokes: “getting hit by a city bus and hoping you survive so you can sue”—funny, but bleak (Steve quoting a friend, 36:01).

7. Privilege & the Limits of Financial Advice

37:55–41:41

• Financial advice often assumes privilege (disposable income, generational wealth). Many aren’t even starting on the same playing field.
  • "We are not all starting in the same place... Financial advice assumes a baseline of privilege..." (Reema, 40:00)
• Reema’s family sent money abroad—a significant but hidden responsibility.

8. Making Money Conversations Less Taboo

41:41–44:29

• Reema is more open than most discussing money with friends. She tries to focus less on numbers and more on feelings/values (what do you want, what do you need?).
• Steve: Deep listening and sharing discomfort are key to empathy and breaking money taboos.

9. Cultural, Gender, and Individual Differences

45:10–48:43

• While gender, background, and class do matter, Reema finds that most relationships to money are highly individual—irrational beliefs persist across all backgrounds.
  • Stories include: heirs rejecting family money, women less likely to negotiate pay, couples fighting over arbitrary “needed” income numbers.

10. Safety, Security, and the Illusion of Control

48:43–53:22

• Steve names “safety” as his core money value—consistently moving the goalposts.
• Both recommend Buddhist teacher Pema Chödrön’s insight: groundlessness is the only certainty; no amount of money can make life permanent or fully safe.
  • "We're all craving and striving for certainty and safety and control...groundlessness is...the natural state of things." (Reema, quoting Chödrön, 50:39)
• Ultimate message: Seek emotional self-awareness, not just financial “success.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Money’s never just money, right? It always represents something. Security, dignity... For many, it simply represents food for the next day.”
  —Steve Burns, 00:37

• "I wanted to create a space where people could talk openly about their relationship with money...I want to get at that emotional piece because money is very emotional."
  —Reema Khrais, 05:54

• "That silence almost made me more anxious...money was something to keep behind closed doors."
  —Reema, 09:33

• "What's at stake isn't math. It's like, often meaning, right?"
  —Reema, 27:43

• "There really can't be financial literacy without emotional literacy. Which makes sense because... our relationship to [money] is fundamentally emotional."
  —Steve, 54:08

• On Pema Chödrön’s groundlessness:
  "If we can accept that groundlessness is the baseline, then life becomes a little more manageable....It's not a personal failure, it's just the reality."
  —Reema, 51:52

Important Topic Timestamps

• 00:02–05:44 – Opening reflections on the emotional baggage of money
• 05:44–11:20 – Rema’s podcast purpose, childhood learning about money
• 11:28–16:53 – The four “money scripts” from financial therapy
• 16:54–27:43 – Money as a neutral tool, a placeholder for deeper needs
• 28:41–40:00 – Emotional literacy beats jargon; overcoming avoidance
• 33:14–37:55 – Millennials, generational wealth, the “new American Dream”
• 37:55–41:41 – The privilege embedded in mainstream financial wisdom
• 41:41–44:29 – Being open about money in friendships
• 45:10–48:43 – Cultural/gender/individual differences in money narratives
• 48:43–53:22 – “Safe” as a moving goalpost, Buddhist acceptance of uncertainty
• 54:08 onward – Closing thoughts: Making money less of a taboo topic

Episode Tone & Style

• Reflective, vulnerable, conversational.
• Candid—both hosts reveal their own avoidances and anxieties about money.
• Gentle humor and warmth, even discussing heavy subjects.
• Intellectually curious, referencing literature (Pema Chödrön) and expert psychology.

Conclusion / Takeaways

• Money is a mirror—reflecting values, fears, family histories, aspirations.
• Emotional awareness is as key as financial “know-how” in building a healthy relationship with money.
• There's no universal formula: Each person’s story is unique, wound up with individual experience and culture.
• Accepting groundlessness (the lack of perfect safety or certainty) can bring more peace—and real financial and emotional health—than relentless striving for control.

“What would we value if we stopped asking money to do the job of making us whole?” —Steve (55:40)

For listeners: This episode is for anyone who's ever felt weird about money, avoided looking at their bank account, or wondered why the subject runs so deep. It's less about dollars and cents, more about hearts and histories.