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What Does Success Look Like? with Wayne Coyne - Alive with Steve Burns | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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What Does Success Look Like? with Wayne Coyne

Alive with Steve Burns

Wed Oct 08 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Alive with Steve Burns

Episode: What Does Success Look Like? with Wayne Coyne
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Steve Burns (Lemonada Media)
Guest: Wayne Coyne (Frontman, The Flaming Lips)

Overview

In this candid, funny, and thoughtful episode, Steve Burns delves into the elusive concept of “success” with Wayne Coyne, the famously weird, sincere, and creative heart of The Flaming Lips. Through stories, vulnerable admissions, and wisdom accumulated from years in music and life, Burns and Coyne explore how success is defined, measured, and experienced—moving far beyond trophies or accolades and into the messier, more meaningful territory of belief, failure, luck, and joy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is Success, Really?

Steve’s Framing ([00:17])
Steve opens by questioning what success means: “Is it money? Is it family? Is it power?... Is it a trophy? Is it something you earn?... What is success?”
The duo agree it’s a hard, constantly moving target—one that’s easy to reduce to external markers, but much harder to define internally.

The Power of Sincerity and Imperfection

Wayne’s Voice and Vulnerability ([05:34])
Steve credits Wayne’s singing—its human, vulnerable, and imperfect quality—as the heart of the Flaming Lips’ emotional power.
Wayne Coyne ([07:15]):
“It’s a humanness... There’s a thing that you love to do, and if you’re lucky, the world loves it too. But it’s just sheer luck and trying... I think there’s something in that voice that says, ‘Hey, man, he’s trying.’”

Steve’s Crisis After Blues Clues ([10:51])

Steve describes leaving his hit children’s show as “objectively a success,” but privately feeling “pretty lost” and “desperate to prove oneself,” not knowing how to define his own success outside of that work.
Experiencing a Flaming Lips concert reorganized his “inner guts and soul,” shifting his notion of artistic success to something more heartfelt and visceral.

The Hammersmith Apollo Story: Stage, Belief, and Failure

Steve’s First Big Gig ([16:08]):
Steve recounts his debut opening for the Flaming Lips in the UK:
“I start playing my song and I’m like, I’m a mighty little man... And by the end of the song, everybody went to the bar.”
Wayne’s Brutal Kindness ([17:19]):
“Well, that didn’t work... It was kind of bad. People come to rock shows... to watch human beings believe in themselves in ways they cannot. And you don’t have that third part. Not yet.”

Memorable quote ([19:53]), Steve:
“You weren’t being a dick. You were being quite the opposite... It was such a kind bit of honesty, because that kind of redefined to me what success might look like, or what might be necessary to be successful.”

Luck, Hard Work, and the Mysterious Alchemy of Success

Wayne Coyne ([21:39]):
“I always say, you know, luck has to find you working hard... I love creating stuff... I feel certain I would do it anyway. There’s a certain amount of what we call success in just that you just create it.”
Wayne describes songcraft as the result of “the gods of music” rewarding visible effort:
“They’re working so hard, let’s throw them one... And hope he doesn’t mess this one up.”

Defining Success on Your Own Terms

Wayne Coyne ([22:52]):
“If I was a billionaire, which I’m not, I’d still be living the way I am now... I’m living the absolute weirdo artist dream to the maximum.”
He reflects on choosing adventure over comfort, emphasizing that “if you get to have an adventure when you’re young, you’ve succeeded.”

Failure as Kin to Success

Steve ([24:03]):
“What do you think the relationship is between success and failure? I used to think they were opposites, but I'm not so sure anymore.”
Wayne Coyne ([24:21]):
“Anytime you’re doing a creative endeavor... it probably is not going to work that well... But maybe five years from now it does work.”
The Flaming Lips’ “She Don’t Use Jelly” and albums like The Soft Bulletin took years to find success—reminding them that outside validation is unpredictable.

Major Labels, Individualism, and Not Chasing the Mainstream

Wayne points out that the Flaming Lips never conformed to industry expectations, focusing on making “cool records” rather than stadium-size success.
Wayne ([27:51]):
“We just want to make cool records and, you know, try hard.”

Family, Roots, and True Motivation

Wayne was inspired early by wanting his brothers and mother to “like” what he made, not just impress an audience ([32:47]).
Punk rock and DIY culture made artistic self-definition possible for him, making “hard work and determination” more important than raw talent ([34:24]).

The Myth and Trap of the North Star Dream

Steve ([38:41]):
“I, like so many people, had a prescribed idea of what success was going to look like... If you don’t obtain that dream, that means you didn’t work hard enough, and it’s your fault.”
He admits that by focusing on a pre-set notion of what success should be, he nearly missed the joy of an unexpected win (“the dream-adjacent scenario”).

Sincerity, Presence, and Success in the Present

Steve recalls improvising sincerity in his Blue’s Clues audition, making the iconic “Will you help me?” moment feel genuinely vulnerable (“I made it almost uncomfortably sincere and real... I felt something. I felt a thing. Right. I felt a thing that felt very true to me in that moment.” — [42:04]).
Wayne suggests stress and pressure always come with real achievement, but fighting through them to find “that freedom of, like, I’m doing that thing and I feel it inside here,” is what it’s all about ([45:07]).

Success Beyond Creativity: Family and Perspective

Having children shifted Wayne’s priorities, helping him focus less on ego and more on caring for others:
“There’s a part of every man’s mind that’s not there until you have these kids... It gives you this amazing priority of, this is important. And this other stuff... is not as important as them.” ([46:00])
Wayne insists he already makes music for the “child in all of us,” and points out that for young children, everything is already fantastic and new ([47:21]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Wayne Coyne ([21:39]):
“Luck has to find you working hard.”
Steve Burns ([16:45]):
“By the end of the song, everybody went to the bar. And they kind of never came back.”
Wayne Coyne ([22:52]):
“If I was a billionaire... I’d still be living the way I am now.”
Wayne Coyne ([47:21]):
“Kids don’t need records like the Flaming Lips because everything in their world is like Flaming Lips music to begin with.”
Steve Burns ([48:24]):
“They say, don’t meet your heroes. I did, and it was awesome.”
Wayne Coyne ([48:36]):
“Meet your heroes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

[00:17] Steve introduces the theme: questioning what success really means.
[05:34] Discussion on voice, vulnerability, and authenticity in art.
[10:51] Steve’s “lost” feeling after leaving Blue’s Clues; the impact of seeing the Flaming Lips live.
[16:08] Steve’s disastrous first rock gig and Wayne’s honest, encouraging feedback.
[19:53] The role of honest feedback and redefining success.
[21:39] Wayne on luck, work ethic, and creativity (“Luck has to find you working hard.”)
[22:52] Wayne reflects on his “weirdo artist dream.”
[24:21] Wayne on the true relationship between success and failure.
[38:41] Steve discusses the trap of chasing a “North Star” dream at the expense of unexpected opportunities.
[42:04] Steve’s moment of genuine sincerity on Blue’s Clues.
[45:07] Embracing struggle and finding meaning in persistence.
[46:00] How parenthood shifts priorities and deepens the concept of success.
[48:24] The warmth and affirmation of creative friendship (“I did [meet my hero], and it was awesome.”)

Final Reflections

Steve closes by distilling the big ideas Wayne shared:

"Success is really a matter of working super hard at something you totally believe in, whether anyone notices or not…sometimes the grass under your feet is all the success that you need." ([48:49])

He encourages listeners to consider what success might look like if it had nothing to do with money, power, or prestige—and to recognize, as Wayne’s kids do, the joy already present in simple moments.

Takeaways

Success is less about external recognition than about sincerely engaging in work and life you believe in.
Luck matters, but you have to be “found” working.
The line between success and failure is blurry; today’s flop might be tomorrow’s classic.
True adventure and presence mean more than trophies.
Sometimes, the moments and choices that don’t fit your original “dream” plan are exactly where genuine success is found.

Alive with Steve Burns continues to be a refreshingly honest, warm, and slightly weird invitation to rethink the big questions of being alive—reminding listeners that sincerity, kindness, creativity, and friendship are successes in their own right.

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Transcript

Wayne Coyne (0:02)

Lemonade.

Steve Burns (0:17)

Hey, there you are. Good to see you. Come on in. Welcome to Alive. Okay, here's a question. Do you consider yourself a success? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a tricky question. I mean, I know for a fact I've considered myself a failure before. I mean, that seems easy, but success seems trickier, like a moving target or something. I made tea. Do you want tea? It's kind of tough to define, but at the same time, I mean, I know it's something I'm supposed to want or something I'm supposed to strive for or pursue and then someday have. Here you go. But what is it, right? Like, what does it mean? Is it. Is it. Is it money? Is it family? Is it power? Is it prestige? Is it. Is it a hit kids TV show? Is it a trophy? Is it something you earn? Is it something you build? I guess my question is, what is success? Okay. All right, let's go. Okay. All right. So Wayne Coyne is a pretty rare guy, actually. He is someone who has essentially turned a lot of the messy, heartbreaking, beautiful parts of what it is to be an alive human person into weird music, into space bubbles, into rock concerts that feel sort of like cosmic birthday parties or an NASA launches. He's actually a pretty hard guy to explain, but he is the frontman of the Flaming Lips for, like, decades. I think they've formed, like, in the early 80s, I think 83. But he kind of blurs the lines, right between concert, cosmic ritual, pop, profound spectacle. It's. But it's all, like, crazy sincere.

Wayne Coyne (3:05)

Like, I've.

Steve Burns (3:06)

Full disclosure, I have known Wayne for decades, and he literally is like my musical hero, right? And when I was 25 years old, if you asked me what success looked like, I would have said, like, that guy. Like, that's the thing that I think is what success would be. And the deal is he gave me this opportunity that I didn't deserve, right? Like we were talking about before he put me on stage, like, at the Hammersmith Apollo where Bowie debuted the Spiders from Mars, right? And. And lifted me up basically in front of. In front of thousands of. Of people and eventually explain to me how important it is to believe in someone. But more than anything, he's just a dude that I think is completely amazing. He's the hardest working person that I've ever met. And he is. He is here.

Wayne Coyne (4:14)

Okay.

Steve Burns (4:17)

Wayne Coyne.

Wayne Coyne (4:18)

All right.

Steve Burns (4:22)

Thanks for coming by my window, man.

Steve Burns (12:08)

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Wayne Coyne (34:24)

Sure. The Beatles. But then as it got to be more realistic, you know, as punk rock came along, 1977, 1978, you know, I could see real life, real musicians, like, doing it. It wasn't rock stars, you know. I guess that's the difference between, like, the Beatles and Led Zeppelin and the who, these types of bands. That music is really untouchable. But when I would see punk rock bands, I'd be like, like, well, that's. That's. I could do that. I wanted that, you know, And I didn't care that I didn't have any musical ability. You know. What I didn't have as musical ability, I made up with, with just working hard and determination, which you can do. Which you can do. Because then I would meet musicians and stuff that, you know, liked that quality that I had and that I would write songs, you know, writing songs and having your own. I don't know, is it Leonard Cohen that says, you know, I always thought it was about just telling your own truth, telling your own story, and that's all you're doing, you know, it's not. It's not. It's not about music, and it's not about a career. It's not about anything. It's just you're up there telling your own story, your own version of the truth. So it's hard to say what, you know, what is the success and what's the failure. Because, you know, it's like you just try things and some things succeed, and you don't want them to be something you have to do all the time. It's like, you know, you know, and some things fail, but it's something you want to keep doing. And you just are always deciding within you, like, you know, that thing failed. I didn't like it that much. Anyway, who cares, you know? And. And I mean, you know, you always worry. I mean, like with you and Blue's Clues. I mean, when Blue's Clues was succeeding, did you feel like, if I keep doing this, I'm going to be trapped and I don't want to keep doing this? Or was your contract up and they were getting rid of you anyway? What. What was the. What led you to leave? That. That thing that seemed to be working for you so.