Podcast Summary: Alive with Steve Burns—“Why Money Stresses Us Out with Megan McCoy”

Podcast: Alive with Steve Burns
Host: Steve Burns (Lemonada Media)
Guest: Dr. Megan McCoy, Assistant Professor at Kansas State University, Certified Financial Therapist
Date: October 1, 2025
Theme: Exploring the roots of money anxiety, how financial trauma persists, and pathways toward healthier relationships with money.

Overview

In this episode, Steve Burns invites Dr. Megan McCoy—a specialist at the intersection of emotional well-being and financial health—to unpack why so many people, including Steve himself, feel intense stress, shame, or aversion around money. They explore generational financial trauma, how money is often avoidantly handled, and share practical steps for building financial confidence and healing. The conversation blends empathy, humor, science, and actionable advice, aiming to demystify money’s emotional hold on us.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening: The Host’s Personal Money Anxiety

[00:14–03:45]

• Steve sets the stage by describing his own meltdown over an incomprehensible S corporation form:
  “When it comes to money, it’s not like that. I get, like, triggered or something...I just have this aversion to it. Why does money stress me out so bad?” —Steve [01:20]
• He introduces Dr. Megan McCoy and her extensive credentials, joking about her “Star Wars droid” style hyphenate.

What Is Financial Therapy?

[03:52–04:30]

• Megan defines financial therapy:
  “Financial therapist can either be a mental health professional who has been trained in financial competencies or a financial professional trained in mental health competencies, really, to address that intersection between our overall well being and our financial well being.” —Megan [04:16]

Money Avoidance and Emotional Triggers

[04:34–06:04]

• Steve identifies as “money avoidant”, panicking about financial matters unlike any other learning challenge.
• Megan:
  “I think the bigger issue is that money is laden with meaning. Like, I once heard a quote, that money is the object in which we project our deepest fears, dreams, and hopes onto.” —Megan [05:08]
• Shame, guilt, and value judgments are discussed as nearly universal, regardless of income.

Science On Money, Selfishness, and Altruism

[06:30–08:37]

• Megan shares Monopoly and “pencil spill” studies illustrating how thinking about or possessing more money can diminish altruism and increase self-focus.
  • “The people who had been primed to think about money picked up half as many of the golf pencils...as those who were thinking about any topic at all.” —Megan [07:58]
• Optimistically, she notes such behaviors are reversible through making generosity salient:
  • “If you’re able to show a video like people in need...that selfishness reversed and their altruism went back up.” —Megan [08:20]

The Roots and Impact of Financial Shame

[08:37–12:20]

• Dr. McCoy describes the “money egg” exercise, mapping childhood money memories to uncover lifelong aversions.
  • Many memories relate to comparison, whether of having less or more.
  • “It is painful to be different.” —Megan [09:51]
• Social media amplifies comparison and marketing manipulates wants.

Generational Financial Trauma

[11:13–14:03]

• “Big T” traumas (Great Depression, Recession, Covid) and “little t” traumas (anxious parental conversations about bills) are passed down behaviorally and emotionally.
  • “Those big T traumas...are being passed down through the generations, through stories, through modeling, through watching. But there’s also small T traumas… and we don’t talk about them, so we can’t make sense of them.” —Megan [11:29]
• Steve shares his own family's period of financial instability and the weight of unspoken money anxiety.

Debt, Shame, and Financial Nihilism

[13:30–15:56]

• Megan candidly describes her own debt journey: six-figure student loans leading to “financial nihilism,” avoidance, and counterproductive spending habits.
  • “I was never going to be financially okay. So why should I even bother trying to be?” —Megan [14:47]
• Overcoming this meant therapy, learning, and developing a plan:
  “If any hole that you’re dug into, you can get out of, if you create a plan and...believe in yourself and you hustle, I think.” —Megan [15:53]

Steps Toward Financial Health

[19:19–22:13]

• Megan embraces intentionality: track spending, create a budget, and strike a balance between deprivation and joy.
  • Scarcity mindsets lead to self-sabotage (“It’s like a binge in food literature; you’ll starve yourself until you eat everything.”).
• Introduces Elizabeth Dunn’s “Five Principles” of happy spending:
  • Buy experiences
  • Spend on others
  • Savor small, hedonistic pleasures over big purchases
    “Why are you wasting money on...big ticket items when a Starbucks brings you so much pleasure...almost in a mindfulness way.” —Megan [20:38]
• Awareness and intention trump avoidance; shame should be replaced by guilt-then-learning:
  • “You can't learn from ‘you’re stupid with money’. That is not useful emotion.” —Megan [21:40]

The Science of Giving

[22:28–24:03]

• Studies confirm:
  • Spending on others increases happiness (both self-directed and externally imposed giving).
  • “When you give to others, the pleasure part of your brain lights up—even when it’s not elective.” —Megan [23:18]
• But as wealth grows, comparison and “fear of missing out” (FOMO) perpetuate dissatisfaction and selfishness.

Redefining Self-Worth, Forgiveness, and Family Dialogue

[25:31–27:29]

• Steve reflects that detaching self-worth from money habits is crucial.
• Megan notes the overlooked power of family transparency:
  “When you were little, if there had just been conversations like, ‘yeah, we’re stressed about finances, but we’re going to be okay’...it lets them know there is a plan in place.” —Megan [26:43]
• Advocates for forgiveness around past money mistakes.

Tackling Financial Literacy and “Financial Nudity”

[27:29–30:16]

• Financial illiteracy is a common and legitimized fear.
  • Megan: “I feel financially naked in front of the planner.” [29:24]
  • Steve: “Financial nudity is a great concept.” [29:28]
• Normalizes Googling, chatting with AI tools, and simply asking for help as valid educational methods.
  • “What I need...is ask, to seek out that information, to not give up.” —Megan [29:31]

Practical Tips: Breaking Down Money Management

[32:40–34:23]

• Track your spending (via simple app—no need to be fancy).
• Break your paycheck into sub-accounts (bills, savings, retirement, play money) to automate good habits:
  • “We are not good at managing large sums of money...” —Megan [32:47]
• Understand investments: 401k, IRA—explained simply as baskets/soups of stocks.
• Recognizes taxes and investing as intimidating topics—encourages taking small, manageable steps.

Finding Professional Help—Not Just for the Mega-Wealthy

[38:09–39:34]

• “Fee-only” financial planners and Accredited Financial Counselors (AFCs) are accessible, sometimes offering pro bono help.
• Financial Therapy Association can connect individuals to financial therapists focusing on the emotional side.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the emotional weight of money:

• “Money is the object in which we project our deepest fears, dreams, and hopes onto.” —Megan [05:08]

On financial trauma and silence:

• “It is painful to be different.” —Megan [09:51]
• “When you were little, if there had just been conversations like, ‘yeah, we’re stressed about finances, but we’re going to be okay’...” —Megan [26:43]

On avoidance and learning:

• “Financial nudity is a great concept.” —Steve [29:28]

On the paradox of money and happiness:

• “The people who had been primed to think about money picked up half as many of the golf pencils...” —Megan [07:58]
• “It’s a finish line that keeps on shifting...that fear of others having more than you just keeps on shifting as you acquire wealth.” —Megan [24:16]

On practical solutions:

• “What I need to be willing to do is ask, to seek out that information, to not give up.” —Megan [29:31]
• “Track your spending through an app...You don’t need to do it fancy.” —Megan [32:40]
• "You should always try to do your match at least, which means that your company saying if you do 5% of your pay, I’ll do 5% of your pay. That is free money, so give it to the man.” —Megan [36:33]

Important Timestamps & Topics

• 00:14 – 03:45: Steve’s personal financial stress; guest introduction.
• 04:16: What is a financial therapist?
• 05:08 – 06:04: Why money triggers anxiety and shame.
• 06:30 – 08:37: Monopoly study; money and selfishness; reversibility of behaviors.
• 09:51 – 10:20: Social comparison and the shrinking middle class.
• 11:13 – 14:03: Generational financial trauma discussed.
• 14:03 – 15:56: Megan’s personal debt journey; “financial nihilism” and recovery.
• 19:19 – 22:13: Steps toward managing debt and seeking balance.
• 22:28 – 24:16: Science of giving and happiness.
• 25:31 – 27:29: Linking self-worth to money, need for forgiveness, and family money conversations.
• 27:29 – 30:16: The vulnerability of financial illiteracy and the importance of seeking information.
• 32:40 – 34:23: Practical tips for organizing finances.
• 38:09 – 39:34: Accessing professional help (AFCs, financial therapists).
• 40:21 – 43:11: Recap and personal reflection.

Takeaways

• Money stress is rarely about numbers, but about meaning, comparison, and inherited trauma.
• Avoidance, shame, and lack of financial literacy feed cycles of anxiety.
• Intentionality, tracking, and small steps are key.
• Seek help—through advisors, counselors, or therapists—but also embrace simple online resources.
• Detach self-worth from financial status, practice self-forgiveness, and normalize open family conversations about money.
• Sharing with others (altruism) is a surprisingly reliable path to financial happiness.

Resources Mentioned

• Elizabeth Dunn’s Five Principles of Happy Spending
• XY Planning Network (Fee-only planners for younger/modern households)
• Accredited Financial Counselors (AFCs) – “Find an AFC” for help, sometimes pro bono
• Financial Therapy Association – Directory of financial therapists

Final Reflection:
Steve ends noticeably lighter, saying:
“I feel better...I was pretty stressed out when we started talking, but...I feel like I'm going to be able to fill out this S Corp form—or at least I'm going to do it.” [40:09]

Ultimately: Facing money, shame, and avoidance directly—with information, support, and intention—can heal old wounds and foster both security and happiness.