AEE 2344: Don't Gaslight Me! How to Show You're in Control

Summary

All Ears English Podcast – Episode 2344: "Don't Gaslight Me! How to Show You're in Control"

Release Date: January 22, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 2344 of the All Ears English Podcast, hosts Lindsay McMahon and Michelle Kaplan delve into the nuanced differences between the terms “gaslighting” and “brainwashing”. Responding to a listener's question from Ben in Japan, the duo explores these psychological concepts, their usage in everyday English, and their relevance in both personal and political contexts.

Listener's Inquiry: Gaslighting vs. Brainwashing

At the heart of this episode is Ben's question: "What's the difference between gaslighting and brainwash?" (03:03). Lindsay and Michelle recognize the importance of clarifying these terms, especially as they become increasingly prevalent in modern discourse.

Defining Gaslighting

Gaslighting is defined as a form of psychological manipulation where an individual seeks to make someone doubt their perceptions, memories, or sanity. Lindsay summarizes the dictionary definition: “manipulation and using psychological methods to make someone question their own sanity or reasoning.” (04:11). Michelle adds, “It’s clearly a form of abuse, especially in close relationships like romantic or familial bonds.” (04:48).

Exploring Brainwashing

On the other hand, brainwashing involves systematically forcing someone to adopt new beliefs or behaviors, often through coercive means. Lindsay contrasts the two terms by stating, "Gaslight is more about manipulating someone to think they're crazy, whereas brainwash is about getting someone to think a certain way." (12:08). Michelle agrees, noting that while the two can be interrelated, they are not synonymous.

Key Differences Between Gaslighting and Brainwashing

The hosts emphasize that while both terms involve manipulation, gaslighting is more about undermining an individual's sense of reality, whereas brainwashing focuses on altering one's beliefs or behaviors. Lindsay articulates, "You might be brainwashing somebody while you gaslight them, but just brainwashing someone is not necessarily gaslighting them." (12:30).

Real-Life Examples and Applications

To illustrate these concepts, Lindsay and Michelle discuss various scenarios:

• Personal Relationships: Lindsay provides a clear example: "She found many signs that he was cheating on her, but he tried to gaslight her by saying none of them were real." (07:45). This underscores how gaslighting can occur in intimate settings, making the victim doubt their observations.

• Political Context: Michelle brings up the issue of drones appearing in New Jersey and Connecticut. Lindsay connects this to gaslighting by suggesting that the government's vague explanations might lead the public to feel "they're being gaslit." (05:32).

• Economic Policies: Discussing the Biden administration's handling of inflation, Lindsay observes, "They didn't acknowledge the reality for half the country... it kind of is a form of gaslighting." (08:43). This example highlights how political narratives can contribute to public distrust and confusion.

Role-Play Demonstration

To further clarify usage, Lindsay and Michelle engage in a role-play scenario:

• Scenario: Two sisters argue over misplaced keys.

  • Lindsay: "Oh, please don't gaslight me. I know you did." (15:43)

  • Michelle: "No point arguing about it now. I didn't realize mom brainwashed you into thinking I was such a bad sister." (15:40)

This exercise demonstrates how these terms can surface in everyday conflicts, emphasizing their relevance beyond academic definitions.

Practical Usage in Everyday Conversations

Michelle advises listeners to "experiment with inserting these words if you feel like it's the right moment." (16:14). Lindsay reinforces this by suggesting that while “gaslight” is increasingly used in serious contexts, “brainwash” remains more conversational and is frequently heard in daily interactions.

Conclusion and Takeaways

Wrapping up the episode, Lindsay and Michelle summarize their insights:

• Gaslighting involves making someone doubt their reality, often used in personal abuse or political manipulation.

• Brainwashing focuses on altering beliefs or behaviors, commonly associated with coercive indoctrination.

• While related, the two terms serve different purposes and are used in varying contexts.

Michelle encourages listeners to remain attentive and aware of these terms in their conversations, enhancing both their vocabulary and understanding of social dynamics.

Additional Resources

Listeners are directed to explore a related episode titled “Teach You New Phrases Today” (16:21) to further enrich their English proficiency.

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Notable Quotes

• Lindsay McMahon [04:11]: “Gaslighting is manipulating someone to think they're crazy, whereas brainwashing is about getting someone to think a certain way.”

• Michelle Kaplan [12:08]: “Gaslighting is more about undermining an individual's sense of reality, brainwashing is about altering beliefs or behaviors.”

• Lindsay McMahon [07:45]: “She found many signs that he was cheating on her, but he tried to gaslight her by saying none of them were real.”

• Michelle Kaplan [16:14]: “Try to experiment with inserting these words if you feel like it's the right moment.”

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Timestamp Guide

For quick reference, here are some key moments in the episode:

• 00:00 - Episode Introduction
• 03:03 - Listener Question Introduction
• 04:11 - Definition of Gaslighting
• 07:45 - Personal Relationship Example
• 12:30 - Differences Between Gaslighting and Brainwashing
• 15:43 - Role-Play Scenario
• 16:14 - Practical Usage Advice
• 17:34 - Episode Conclusion

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This episode of the All Ears English Podcast offers invaluable insights into the subtle distinctions between gaslighting and brainwashing, equipping listeners with the vocabulary and understanding to navigate complex interpersonal and societal interactions with confidence.

Transcript

[Lindsay McMahon]

This is an All Ears English podcast. Episode 2344. Don't Gaslight Me how to show you're in control.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American hosts, Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, coming to you from Colorado and New York City, usa. And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com forward slash, subscribe. Today, our listener asks us about the words gaslight and brainwash. Listen in to see if they are the same or different and how to use them in confrontational situations in English.

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[Michelle Kaplan]

Hey, Michelle, how are you today?

[Lindsay McMahon]

I'm good, Lindsay. How are you?

[Michelle Kaplan]

I'm feeling good. It's January. We're getting back into the swing of everything. Yeah. Things are good. Things are good. What are we talking about today on All Yours English?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Wow, Lindsay, have you ever felt like someone was trying to gaslight you?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Oh, that is a term that I've been hearing more and more lately.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Oh my gosh, all the time. This is. Yeah, this is a good one. Yeah.

[Michelle Kaplan]

The idea that someone is trying to make you seem like you're not thinking straight or something like that. Right.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Question didn't happen. Right.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Like, ah, right. And you can start to kind of question yourself and it can become a whole journey. Yeah, luckily, no. I don't have anyone in my life that does this to me. I have pretty healthy primary relationships, luckily. But what about you, Michelle? Does anyone do this to you?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Okay, no, I don't think so, but although. But we are going to talk about some ways in which we might feel gaslighted. Maybe not by people we know. Gas lit. Gaslit. Yeah, gas. Okay, so. And this episode is brought to you by a listener question from Ben from Japan. This is from YouTube. Thank you so much, Ben, for this question. Ben asked us a couple questions, but we're going to stick with this second one today, Ben. We can come back to the other another time. But this is a good one. Lizzie, would you like to read, uh, Ben's, uh, message for us?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, here we go. So Ben says, what's the difference between gaslighting and brainwash? Thank you for your choice of topic, Ben. Oh, my gosh. Wow. These are two big terms getting into some very deep psychological.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah. So as Lindsay said, this has become a very popular term to gaslight someone. So, yeah, this is, this is a deep episode. It's good to talk about what this means because you are going to hear it a lot out and about. I mean, Lindsay, do you use this? Do you hear it a lot? What do you think?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, before I answer that, I just want to make, I just want to make sure our listeners are clear on the past tense of the, of gas light, because. Yeah, so we can say both. So gas lit or gas lighted. Would both be correct in terms of.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Oh, you can say both.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Okay, good. Yeah, both are good. So good to go. We don't have to worry about that. But you're asking me, has it ever happened to me, Is that what you're asking?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Or if you use the word or.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Do I use the word? Oh, I don't actually use it that much. I use other words to talk about this type of idea, psychological ideas, but not really gaslighting. But it's really. I did, I did hear it just yesterday, actually. I think, I think in the news or something.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Okay, so that's, that's where I feel like I hear it a lot. Yeah, in the news. So we're going to, we're going to talk about that more. So, I mean, but so what does it mean? I mean, the, the dictionary says, you know, basically it's about manipulation and using, it says, psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning. That's the dictionary definition. So. And it, apparently it can actually be like a real kind of way to abuse someone psychologically. Right.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, no, I, I, for sure. I would imagine it is a form of abuse if it's used repeatedly, especially in your romantic relationships or family relationships. Yeah, not good, right?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so, yeah, that. Lindsay, I'm glad you brought up the news because I feel that we hear this a lot in politics, in the news. Maybe how things are covered or how politicians answer questions. Maybe they're avoiding answers. And so somebody might say that a politician is gaslighting the public because they're trying to make things seem A certain way to make people forget the reality. But, Lindsay, this actually brings me before now it's making me think of. Have you heard about what's going on with the drones?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Oh, yeah, I don't know. I've seen a bit of that. What's going. But I have no idea what it is. Does anyone know what those drones are?

[Lindsay McMahon]

No. And so it's interesting because there's kind of a big. A lot in the news about the drones because people are seeing them everywhere and the government is saying, oh, they don't know what they are, but they just know that it's safe. And people are saying, oh, they know more than they're letting on. So that kind of, in a way could be an example of to gaslight the American public. I mean, I, I actually, I've seen them.

[Michelle Kaplan]

You have, really?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah.

[Michelle Kaplan]

New Jersey, right? Is that where that's happening?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yes, it's a lot in New Jersey. I think they said Connecticut. Like, I think a lot of places on the East Coast.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Whoa, that's.

[Lindsay McMahon]

But I, Yeah, I for sure have seen them. And it's, it's a little unsettling. So then when you hear, oh, no, it's fine. You just kind of wonder, okay, what's going on here? So, yeah, this is just an example of, you know, like, you might hear somebody say in an interview, if they're complaining, oh, that they're. We don't know what it is. They might say, oh, they're trying to gasl us. You know.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Right.

[Lindsay McMahon]

So I think you hear that a lot regarding news and especially politics.

[Michelle Kaplan]

So just to be more clear, be super clear here, if the government or whoever it is is gaslighting us, when we ask as citizens what's going on, they might say, you're being crazy, you're being paranoid. That kind of thing. Is that, Is that what. Gaslighting?

[Lindsay McMahon]

I don't think that they're going to specifically say that, but they might say, right. That that is an example. Like, okay, let's think of this. Let's say there's a, a couple and the one partner is cheating on the other. Right, Right. And they say, and, and somebody. The, the one who's being cheated on is finding all these clues.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Right.

[Lindsay McMahon]

And the first one is saying, oh, come on, you're being ridiculous. That's. That's clearly this. And has an explanation for everybody. You might say, oh, you're trying to gaslight me. Right. That's a good.

[Michelle Kaplan]

That's a very clear example. Right. Almost the person makes the other person feel like they are going. They're losing their mind. Right?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah. They're being paranoid. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, they, they are not in touch with the reality. Different things like that. So it's pretty serious, actually. So let's give some examples. The first one is what I just said.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Lindsay McMahon]

She found many signs that he was cheating on her, but he tried to gaslight her by saying none of them were real.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Oh, yes. Not good. Or you might actually use it in direct connection when you're talking to someone. Right. You might say, don't gaslight me. I know what I heard. They were gossiping about me. And don't make it seem like I didn't hear it. Sounds like an argument there.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Sounds like an argument. Or you could say the governor was guilty of gaslighting in his answers to the reporter. It didn't matter because the public had already seen him in action and they had made up their minds.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yes. Okay. So, yeah, this is out in our. In the Zeitgeist right now in the news, and people are using it. So it will be very good for our listeners to know it for sure. I'm trying to remember what was the news story that I was consuming, but I think with the new administration coming in, we might be hearing this more and more. Yeah, it's going to be an adventure.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Right. Well, I mean, it does make me also think of, like, the. What they were saying with inflation that people were saying, oh, they can't afford certain things. And before the election, the Biden administration was saying, oh, but look, the economy's so good, and here are the numbers. And so maybe the public, some people felt, oh, that they were being gaslit. Right. Like, oh, look at these numbers. But people were in their daily lives, which was a very interesting thing to me because, yeah, you did see the numbers on one hand, but you also know that people were feeling it. So.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, weird. Yeah, yeah, it's. No, that's a, that's a great example. And that's why they lost. I mean, they, they didn't acknowledge reality for, you know, half of the country. Things that were not. Are not good. They're good for some people, great for some people, but not good for others. And so they didn't acknowledge. They just kind of went along and said things are great and hope that.

[D]

People believe that, would believe it.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. So that, that kind of is kind of a form of gaslighting, I suppose.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Right.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. It's a new year, and if you're.

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[Michelle Kaplan]

Okay, Michelle, other loaded words here. Oh, boy. Okay.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Well, Ben was asking about if brainwash and gaslight are the same. So to brainwash from the dictionary is to make someone adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure. So what do you think? Would you say that these words are the same, totally different, anything to do with each other?

[Michelle Kaplan]

I think they're interrelated. I think they could be connected. I think someone could be sort of gaslighting you and also kind of potentially brainwashing you because they're brainwashing you. Maybe to think that you are, I don't know, in some way or just being paranoid, maybe, for example. Right. So they may come together, but I don't think they mean the same thing. I think Thor brainwashed. We see it more often in different ways.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah, Yeah, I think. Right, exactly. I think that Gaslight is more about this manipulation to make someone think they're crazy, whereas brainwash is a little bit more versatile, getting someone to think a certain way. So you might be brainwashing somebody while you gaslight them, but just brainwashing someone is not necessarily gaslighting them.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Exactly. So let's go into brainwash just so that our listener Ben, really understands the difference. So here's an example phrase. So she tried to brainwash him into agreeing with her politically, but he read up on the topics for himself and realized that she was wrong. Okay.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah, yeah. Or he's totally brainwashed, so you could use it that way as well. He thinks he works for the best company, but he doesn't see all the flaws.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. And we can see.

[Lindsay McMahon]

I.

[Michelle Kaplan]

We see this in a lot of different scenarios where people end up just kind of in a vacuum. I mean, we see this with social media. Right. Their people's feeds end up just echoing echo chambers. Right, Michelle?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Echo chambers. Yes, exactly. That's a good one. That's going to be on the app today. Yeah.

[Michelle Kaplan]

And I do think now that we have social media and we have these algorithms that do give us what we want to see and what we keep consuming, we don't really get a balanced perspective anymore. You know, that's.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah, that is the scary part is you see what you want, you see what you already believe, and it just kind of verifies all of that, but you're not seeing enough content, I guess, in other. On other side. So. But yeah, I mean, I think both gaslight and brainwashed are both pretty serious to me. I think brainwash is used maybe a little bit more casually and conversationally.

[Michelle Kaplan]

I agree.

[Lindsay McMahon]

You know, oh, like, oh, he's totally brainwashed. He thinks that she loves him, but she doesn't. Or, you know.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Totally agree. Yeah.

[Lindsay McMahon]

So that's. I think you'll hear that more. More casually, even though they're. It's actually pretty serious. But it's used. It can be used in a casual way.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. I think gaslighting would be more reserved for maybe relationships. But you do. You could hear as we. We gave the example of the government talking to citizens. That's valid too, right? But yeah, I agree. Brainwash is more common. So let's see how these come out in a role play. Michelle, About.

[Lindsay McMahon]

All right, so here we are, sisters, talking about our childhood.

[Michelle Kaplan]

All right, here we go.

[Lindsay McMahon]

All right. Remember when mom yelled at you for trying to steal my keys?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Oh, my gosh. That never happened. Michelle. I wouldn't do that.

[Lindsay McMahon]

It so did. I. Found them in your purse.

[Michelle Kaplan]

They were next to my purse because.

[D]

You put them there.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Oh, please don't gaslight me. I know you did.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Whatever. No point arguing about it now. I didn't realize mom brainwashed you into thinking I was such a bad sister.

[Lindsay McMahon]

She.

[Michelle Kaplan]

All right, here we go. So we got some kind of mind games going on here. Someone is playing mind games. I'm not sure who it is.

[Lindsay McMahon]

That's funny. Okay, so let's see. We're talking about you stealing my keys or trying to.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yes. Yeah.

[Lindsay McMahon]

So you said they were next to my purse before because you put them there. So I said, oh, please don't gaslight me. And that can be that something that people say. So I wanted to highlight that you might hear somebody say, don't gaslight me. It's kind of like, oh, don't. Don't make me think I'm crazy. Don't. Come on. I know. Know, right?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Usually in a confrontation between friends, sisters, partners, something like that. Sure. And then I said, whatever. No point in arguing about it now. I didn't realize mom brainwashed you into thinking I was a bad sister. Oh, boy.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Oh, yes.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. A little revisionist history going on here.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Right?

[Michelle Kaplan]

We don't know what happened.

[Lindsay McMahon]

We don't. We don't know. I don't know. I don't know if Lindsay stole the keys or not.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Oh, my gosh. But these are two good examples. You. These words might come up in those close relationships, right?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I wanted to give some examples of, like, because you might not be using it every day in this big political, serious context. So I wanted to give a couple more casual expressions that might be a little bit more casual uses that might be a little bit more conversational in your everyday life.

[Michelle Kaplan]

I love that. Michelle, where should our listeners go? We do have a one suggested episode that our listeners could go to right away.

[Lindsay McMahon]

That is.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Let me. Let me just give it out there. The number 23, 28. Do you mind if we teach you new phrases today? What did we talk about in that one? Michelle, do you remember?

[Lindsay McMahon]

I believe it was one words with mind. I believe.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Lindsay McMahon]

Yes. Right. Remember one? Yes.

[Michelle Kaplan]

I'm excited for our listeners to hear that one. So go check it out, guys. Where should we leave our listeners? What's the takeaway?

[Lindsay McMahon]

Okay, well, I mean, this was a super good question. This was fun to look into for me, and it can be used in more serious context, in more casual contexts. But I think the takeaway is that Gaslight is starting to be used more and more frequently. Yes. But still, I think brainwash is more conversational and used more in everyday conversation. So that's. That's where I would leave it.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. And there's our answer for Ben and for our listeners. Try to experiment. Listen for these words and experiment with inserting them if you feel like it's the right moment. Right. Okay, guys, don't forget. Yeah. This has been fun. Don't forget to hit the follow button right here on this podcast, and we'll See you next time, all right?

[Lindsay McMahon]

All right. Bye, guys.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Take care. Bye. Thanks for listening. To all ears English. Would you like to know your English level? Take our two minutes quiz. Go to allearsenglish.com fluency score. And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time.