AEE 2378: Are You Making this Mistake When You Refer to Native Speakers?

Summary

Summary of All Ears English Podcast Episode 2378: "Are You Making this Mistake When You Refer to Native Speakers?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Ears English Podcast
• Hosts: Lindsay McMahon and Michelle Kaplan
• Episode: 2378
• Release Date: March 24, 2025
• Description: This episode delves into the common mistake learners make when referring to native English speakers and explores the respectful terminology when discussing Native Americans in the United States. Hosts Lindsay McMahon and Aubrey Carter provide valuable insights to help ESL learners navigate these linguistic nuances effectively.

Introduction to the Topic

The episode opens with Lindsay McMahon introducing the primary focus: the incorrect usage of the term "Native Americans" when one intends to refer to "native English speakers." This confusion arises frequently among English learners and can lead to misunderstandings or unintended disrespect.

Lindsay McMahon [00:10]:
"Find out what it is today, plus get important updates on how to refer to Native Americans in the United States."

Understanding the Common Mistake

Aubrey Carter highlights the multifaceted use of the word "native" in English, emphasizing its various meanings depending on the context.

Aubrey Carter [01:50]:
"I definitely think of Native Americans. I think of the restaurant Native New Yorker. I think of native English speakers. We use this word so many ways in English." [01:50]

The hosts clarify that while "native speakers" correctly refers to individuals whose first language is English (or another specified language), "Native Americans" specifically denotes the indigenous peoples of the United States.

Clarifying Terminology

To prevent confusion, the hosts explore appropriate alternatives when referring to native English speakers. They suggest specifying the variant of English, such as "native speakers of American English" or "native British English speakers."

Lindsay McMahon [04:05]:
"You could also say native speakers of English. You could also say native speakers of American English. I suppose you could say that as well." [04:05]

Respectful Terms for Indigenous Peoples

The discussion shifts to the correct and respectful terminology when referring to Native Americans. Aubrey explains the historical context and the evolution of preferred terms.

Aubrey Carter [04:27]:
"Native Americans. This refers to indigenous peoples in the United States." [04:27]

They emphasize moving away from outdated and insensitive terms such as "American Indians" or simply "Indians," which originated from Christopher Columbus's mistaken belief that he had reached India.

Aubrey Carter [05:00]:
"They now know that the preferred term is either Native Americans or Indigenous people or natives." [05:00]

Insights from a 2021 Panel on Terminology

Aubrey shares insights from a panel held in May 2021 in Mississippi, which featured representatives from various Native nations. The panel underscored the diversity among the 574 federally recognized Native nations, each with unique preferences regarding terminology.

Aubrey Carter [05:40]:
"You should definitely ask if Native Americans, ask them what terms they would prefer, because we can't assume that every one of them would prefer these terms." [05:40]

Lindsay reinforces this point, highlighting the importance of asking individuals how they wish to be addressed to foster respect and connection.

Lindsay McMahon [06:48]:
"Those conversations actually build connection and build respect." [06:48]

Evolution of Terms: From "Reservation" to "Native Lands"

The hosts discuss the shift from the term "reservation," historically taught in schools, to "native lands" to better respect the sovereignty and histories of Native American nations.

Aubrey Carter [08:25]:
"Native lands. This is land owned by Native Americans. [08:25]

They acknowledge the challenge in changing established language habits but stress the importance of these changes in honoring Native American histories and identities.

Preferred Terminology: "Nation" Over "Tribe"

Another significant point is the preference for the term "nation" instead of "tribe." This change acknowledges the sovereignty and distinct governmental systems of each Native nation.

Aubrey Carter [09:20]:
"Most Native Americans would prefer that we use the term nation instead of tribe." [09:20]

Lindsay connects this to broader cultural trends where "tribe" is often co-opted by marketing and other sectors to describe any group, diluting its specific meaning and importance.

Practical Application: Role Play Scenario

To solidify understanding, the hosts engage in a role-play scenario demonstrating the correct usage of terms discussed. They illustrate how to naturally incorporate respectful terminology into everyday conversations.

Role Play Highlights:

• Native Speakers:

  • Lindsay [12:21]:
    "I heard you're learning Spanish, is that right?"
  • Aubrey [12:27]:
    "My goal is to be able to speak as well as a native speaker, but I've got a long way to go."

• Referring to Native Lands:

  • Lindsay [12:45]:
    "Are there a lot of native lands in Idaho?"
  • Aubrey [15:54]:
    "The Shoshone Bannock Nation is not far from where I grew up."

During the role-play, they emphasize phrases like "native speaker level" and "native lands," reinforcing the correct terminology.

Key Takeaways and Best Practices

1. Differentiate Clearly:

   • Use "native speakers" to refer to individuals whose first language is English or another specified language.
   • Use "Native Americans" or "Indigenous people" specifically for the indigenous populations of the United States.

2. Respect Preferences:

   • Always ask individuals how they prefer to be addressed.
   • Avoid outdated terms like "American Indian" or "Indian."

3. Evolve Your Language:

   • Adopt terms that respect the sovereignty and identity of Native nations, such as "native lands" and "nation" instead of "reservation" and "tribe."

4. Cultural Sensitivity Builds Connection:

   • Using respectful and accurate terminology fosters better connections and shows genuine respect for individuals and their cultures.

Conclusion

Episode 2378 of the All Ears English Podcast provides essential guidance for ESL learners on the nuanced use of the term "native" in English. By distinguishing between "native speakers" and "Native Americans," and by adopting respectful terminology, learners can enhance their language proficiency while demonstrating cultural sensitivity. Lindsay McMahon and Aubrey Carter effectively navigate these complex topics, offering practical advice and real-life applications to help listeners communicate more accurately and respectfully in American English.

Notable Quotes:

• Aubrey Carter [02:07]:
  "Native Americans has a very specific meaning. Anyone whose first language is English, you can refer to, that is."

• Lindsay McMahon [04:17]:
  "We don't want to say native Americans when we mean to say native speakers of English."

• Aubrey Carter [09:47]:
  "They would prefer the term nation. This shows respect for sovereignty and the fact that Native nations each have their own system of government."

By adhering to these guidelines, ESL learners can avoid common mistakes and engage more respectfully and effectively in English conversations.

Transcript

[Aubrey Carter]

This is an Allers English podcast, episode 2378. Are you making this mistake when you refer to native speakers?

[Lindsey McMahon]

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American host, Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz and Lindsey McMahon, the English adventurer, coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, usa. And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com subscribe There is a common mistake that we've heard when it comes to talking about native speakers. Find out what it is today, plus get important updates on how to refer to Native Americans in the United States.

[C]

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[Lindsey McMahon]

Hey, Aubrey, how's it going today?

[Aubrey Carter]

I'm great. How are you, Lindsay? Good.

[Lindsey McMahon]

I'm glad to be recording on the microphone, but I have a question for you today.

[Aubrey Carter]

Okay, perfect.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Okay. So what do you think? What comes to your mind when someone says the word native?

[Aubrey Carter]

Oh, that is an interesting question because not just one thing. I definitely think of Native Americans. I think of the restaurant Native New Yorker. I think of native English speakers. I think of someone saying they're a native of Boston. We use this word so many ways in English.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, we really do. It's all over the place. But today we're going to hone in on one interesting aspect of this word native. Tell us what we're talking about today, Aubry.

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah, so there's a very common mistake in English by English learners to call all native English speakers in the U.S. native Americans. Often if they mean to say native English speakers, then they'll say Native Americans. Just sort of thinking all English speakers in America. This is tricky because we do call them native speakers, but Native Americans has a very specific meaning.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes, I love that. So we want to draw attention to this and make sure that we kind of stop this mistake right here and get really clear on the terms for when we're talking about, again, native speakers of English. And then, Aubry, we're going to go into another area which is super important in our. In our culture. Right what are we going to get into?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yes, the terms have really evolved for native americans. The terms that they prefer that everyone use and especially that non native americans use. So we're going to go into that. The evolution of language, respectful terms. This is very important in u. S. Culture. So not only are you learning about the differences and all the ways that we use native, but also some of this. These very important language changes.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes. Great topic today. Super important topic today. So, guys, hit the follow button. We cover all kinds of topics here on allers. English idioms, slang, vocabulary, grammar, culture. This is what you need to connect directly with people in english. So hit follow on the show. All right.

[Aubrey Carter]

All right, let's dive into n first of all. Right.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes.

[Aubrey Carter]

So of course we use this term to talk about people whose first language, whose mother tongue is english or Spanish. Right. Native Spanish speakers. Native english speakers. That's just if it's your first language.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah. So you could also say native speakers of English. You could also say native speakers of american English. I suppose you could say that as well. What do you think?

[Aubrey Carter]

Right. Or native speakers of british english. Right, exactly. Or native british English speakers. A lot of options here. You might ask someone, are you a native speaker? This just means, is this your first language? Is this your mother tongue?

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, but the key takeaway here, guys, is we don't want to say native americans when we mean to say native speakers of english. Okay, different thing. All right, good.

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah. Native Americans. Let's go into that next. This refers to indigenous peoples in the United states. So you might say my best friend is native american. She's cherokee. Right. So this has a very different meaning than native english speakers. Right. Anyone whose first language is English, you can refer to, that is. But if you say native americans, you are specifically referring to these indigenous people.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes. And historically we've used a term which we don't want to use anymore. And what is that term to talk about? Native americans that we used to use, Aubrey?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yes. So they used to often be referred to as american indians or just indians. This is because when Christopher columbus came, he thought he was landing in india. He was very wrong. So this, the stake had just sort of was passed down through time, through language, but we now know that the preferred term is either native americans or indigenous people or natives.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah. Important to know. Love this. Super, super important to know. And aubry, you brought some information from a panel. There was a panel that happened. When and where did this happen? Yeah.

[Aubrey Carter]

So this was May 2021 in Mississippi. And what's really interesting about this panel is. The contributors were from many different Native nations. So what's tricky when it comes to Native Americans is there are 574 federally recognized Native nations, all with their own unique history, language, government. And so there is no set rule book or guidebook for the terms that all of these governments, these nations, would prefer. So this panel was great because it had people from a lot of different nations that could share, sort of generally use these terms. Generally, these terms are what we would prefer. But then they made a really good point that you should definitely ask if, you know Native Americans, ask them what terms they would prefer, because we can't assume that every one of them would prefer these terms.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Absolutely, 100%. So always ask the question. I mean, that's a good. That's a best practice. No matter who we're talking with. How would you like to be addressed? Right. Those conversations actually build connection and build respect, Right, Exactly.

[Aubrey Carter]

It's the same with someone's name. Right. If we ask someone if they go by a nickname or if we're pronouncing their name correctly, we want to know as much as possible, just like you said, Lindsay, to build that connection, to make sure we're being respectful.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah. So we have a direct quote from the panel, which we can glean a lot of insight from here. Aubry, right?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah. You want to read it? Yeah.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Okay. Here's what they said on the panel in terms of the term Native American. If you're talking about groups of people from multiple nations, use Native American, Native or Indigenous. Ideally, if you can check with the group to determine how they'd like to be referenced, you may see the term American Indian used to. Native Governance center does not recommend that non Native folks use the terms American and Indian or Indian. However, this is a matter of preference. You may find that another Native organization recommends something different. So again, you just. You need to ask, right?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah.

[Lindsey McMahon]

On an individual level. Yeah.

[Aubrey Carter]

Best to ask on an individual level, but in general, best to avoid the term Indian or American Indian. Right. Native Americans is safe here. But there were some other really interesting language terms, evolution of terms that I used and was familiar with as a young person, as a young adult that I saw from this panel that I think we should share. I think it's really good to know all of these terms and make sure that we're using the most respectful terms possible.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, exactly. So when we were kids in school, we always learned the word reservation. Right?

[Aubrey Carter]

Right.

[Lindsey McMahon]

At least in the 80s and the 90s we learned that. But now we want to say Something different. What is that? Aubry? What is the better term to use?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah. Native lands. So this is land owned by Native Americans, you might say, you know, there are a lot of native lands in Arizona. There are a lot of native lands just north of where I live. And this is a hard habit to break for a lot of Americans, a lot of us in the states, because we're used to saying reservation, like you said. But I can definitely understand why. Right. There is a very important reason for these language changes. If some of these. These terms really are reminders of atrocities and colonial, you know, colonization, I can understand wanting the terms to be changed.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And the way to show that respect and build the relationship is to adhere to these and respect them. So number three, Actually, I hadn't. This is interesting, right? So the word tribe is what we originally learned in school, but what has happened with the word tribe?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah. So this panel was saying that most Native Americans would prefer that we use the term nation instead of tribe. And this is because globally, we have sort of trivialized the term tribe. We'll say, I've found my tribe, which means, like, I found people that are like me or bride. Tribe. You've heard probably right. So they would prefer the term nation. This shows respect for sovereignty and the fact that Native nations each have their own system of government.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah. I think what's happened is, you know, marketing has gotten its hands on the term tribe. Marketing, psychology and marketing, and it's used to create communities. Right. I don't think we use that term here at Dollars English, but I've seen other, you know, brands, podcasts, communities that do use that term. And, you know, it's. It's marketing. Right. To bring together a group. Really interesting.

[Aubrey Carter]

So I understand.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aubrey Carter]

You know, how dare you. Don't call yourselves tribes. They're saying, you know, we would actually prefer you not use that term to refer to us. Right. We are Native nation. And good to know, because that is also a big change from the language I used as a young adult.

[Lindsey McMahon]

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[Aubrey Carter]

So you and I are acquaintances that have run into each other at a party and we've. We have been just getting to know each other better. Want to start us out?

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes. I heard you're learning Spanish, is that right?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yes. My goal is to be able to speak as well as a native speaker, but I've got a long way to go.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Same. I've been learning Spanish off and on for a long time, but getting to that native speaker level is no joke.

[Aubrey Carter]

You're a native of Boston, right?

[Lindsey McMahon]

No, actually, I was born and raised in New Hampshire. What about you?

[Aubrey Carter]

Oh, I'm from Idaho, but I've lived in Arizona for over 20 years.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Are there a lot of native lands in Idaho?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yes, the Shoshone Bannock nation is not far from where I grew up. It's the largest in Idaho.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Interesting. In Colorado, we also have a lot of native. Native lands. Super interesting and important to kind of get to know the cultures. Right, and learn about it.

[Aubrey Carter]

Yes, absolutely. Really interesting. I don't know. Have you ever watched the show Yellowstone Lindsay?

[Lindsey McMahon]

No, I missed that. It was really hot for a while, wasn't it?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah, a lot of people really loved it. I watched some of the first season with my parents and I feel like it. There are a lot of native American actors, a lot of native American characters in that show, and I thought it was interesting about getting into, like, the current culture and the native lands and some of the politics and the, you know, some tricky things about like, farmers who are trying to rent native lands and so that might be an interesting show to learn more about U. S Culture.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, super interesting. Or there was a really good movie that came out a few years ago. It was a long movie, but it was really good. It had Leonardo DiCaprio in it. I'm trying to think of what the name was. Do you remember?

[Aubrey Carter]

Is the one where he's attacked by a bear?

[Lindsey McMahon]

No, no, no, no. It's much later than that. It was just a few years ago. That was a good one, too. I'm trying to.

[Aubrey Carter]

Oh, yes. And it won, like, an Academy Award. Yeah. What was that called? I'm gonna look it up really quick. Because she, I think, was the first Native American to best actress.

[Lindsey McMahon]

It's not Wind River. That's a different movie. Which was also really good, by the way. We will come up with that and we will add that to the show notes.

[Aubrey Carter]

Killers of the Flower Moon, Killers of the Fire Moon. And it was about the murders of the Osage Native Americans in the 1920s.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Really, really good stuff. Good movie. I highly recommend it. Yeah.

[Aubrey Carter]

Okay, let's go through this role play all of these terms here. And a bonus that we threw in. I first said, you know, I want to be able to speak Spanish as well as a native speaker. So I just mean someone who. Their first language is Spanish.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes. And then you. I said same. I've been learning Spanish off and on for a long time. But getting to that native speaker level is no joke. That native speaker level.

[Aubrey Carter]

Okay. Yeah. Where you are as fluent as someone whose first language is Spanish. I love this expression. No joke means like, extremely difficult.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yeah, I love it, too. I remember I had a friend who used to always refer to hiking specific mountains as no joke. That mountain is. You're going to hike that this weekend. That is no joke.

[Aubrey Carter]

No joke. That is perfect. Right. If it. It's extremely difficult. Okay. It's no joke. Take it seriously.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Bring some shelter or something, you know?

[Aubrey Carter]

Right. And then we have our bonus here. I said, you're a native of Boston. Right. This is another way we use native to ask someone where they're born and raised. If you're. I'm a native of Idaho. Right. Southeast Idaho. That's where I was born and raised.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes. Perfect. And then you said. I said, are there a lot of native lands in Idaho? So now we're talking about Native American lands, right?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yes, exactly. And if you hear someone use the term reservation means the same thing. This is historic historically, what was used. But hopefully this message will be getting out to help people know that the preferred term is native lands.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes. Very good. And then the last one Aubry, what did you say?

[Aubrey Carter]

Yeah, I said the Shoshone Bannock Nation is not far from where I grew up. So this is the way we would now say it. Rather than the Shoshone Manic Reservation. That's what I would have said as a teenager. Instead we would say nation.

[Lindsey McMahon]

All right. Super interesting. Really important also because our listeners, our students are using the term, you know, native speaker all the time and is okay. And we've shown you kind of how these overlap a little bit and gone into a really important topic about how to connect with communities.

[Aubrey Carter]

Okay. Yes. And really helpful to know more about the culture in the US and to know what you are, who you are referring to. If you say Native Americans.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Yes, really good topic. Thanks for bringing this to the show, Aubrey. Good stuff.

[Aubrey Carter]

Awesome. Thanks. See you next time.

[Lindsey McMahon]

All right, talk to you soon.

[Aubrey Carter]

Bye bye.

[Lindsey McMahon]

Thanks for listening. To all ears. English. Would you like to know your English level? Take our two minute quiz, go to allearsenglish.com forward/fluencyscore. And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time.