AEE 2437: Are You Good Cop or Bad Cop?

Summary

All Ears English Podcast: Episode 2437 – "Are You Good Cop or Bad Cop?"

Release Date: July 3, 2025

In this engaging episode of the All Ears English Podcast, hosts Michelle Kaplan and Lindsay McMahon dive into the intriguing dynamics of the "good cop, bad cop" strategy. This episode explores how this tactic manifests in parenting, relationships, and professional settings, offering valuable insights for intermediate to advanced English learners aiming to understand everyday expressions and cultural nuances.

---

Understanding "Good Cop, Bad Cop"

The episode begins with Lindsay introducing the concept of "good cop, bad cop," drawing parallels between police interrogation tactics and everyday interpersonal interactions. This strategy involves one person adopting a friendly, accommodating demeanor (the good cop) while the other takes on a stricter, more authoritative role (the bad cop).

Lindsay [00:59]: "You've likely seen police officers be good cop and bad cop, but you may not realize you're using this strategy too."

Michelle shares her personal experience with this dynamic in her parenting approach:

Michelle [02:55]: "I am usually the good cop, and then my husband comes in, he's more strict. He lays down the law. He's the bad cop."

She further explains how these roles can shift as children grow from toddlers to teenagers, highlighting the adaptability required in parenting styles.

---

"Good Cop, Bad Cop" in Parenting

The discussion delves into how parents naturally adopt these roles to manage their children's behavior. Lindsay describes herself as the "good cop" or "pushover," focusing on gentle parenting techniques.

Lindsay [03:28]: "I'm the good cop."

Michelle emphasizes the importance of setting and following through with boundaries, cautioning against making "empty threats" that undermine parental authority.

Michelle [04:36]: "I have threatened to sell my children's iPads... that's an empty threat. Because I need them to have them on road trips. I just need to stop, like, sneaking it when I don't want them to have it."

They share relatable anecdotes, such as the challenges of enforcing bedtime after sleepovers and the humorous yet frustrating nature of empty threats.

---

Application in Professional Settings

Transitioning from parenting, the hosts explore how "good cop, bad cop" is utilized in business environments, particularly in negotiations and sales. Michelle provides an example from car dealerships, where a salesperson may use a supervisor as the bad cop to solidify a deal.

Michelle [10:30]: "You can feel them manipulating you. You're like, but what are you gonna do?"

Lindsay agrees, highlighting how recognizing this tactic is crucial to avoid falling into manipulation.

Lindsay [13:43]: "You can feel them manipulating you. You're like, but what are you gonna do?"

---

Is It Manipulative?

The conversation addresses the ethical implications of employing a "good cop, bad cop" approach. Both hosts agree that while it can be effective, it often crosses into manipulation, potentially damaging trust and relationships.

Michelle [13:38]: "I think if it's really obvious, if the manipulation is obvious, I think it can hurt the connection."

Lindsay [13:59]: "It can make you lose trust."

They underscore the importance of authenticity in interactions to foster genuine connections rather than resorting to manipulative tactics.

---

Practical Role-Play Example

To illustrate the concept, Lindsay and Michelle engage in a role-play scenario where they act as parents trying to get their children to leave a park. Michelle takes on the bad cop role, declaring it's time to leave, while Lindsay offers a bribe of ice cream as the good cop.

Michelle [14:37]: "Sure. And I'll tell them it's time to leave. I'll be bad cop."

Lindsay [15:14]: "Next time we'll switch."

This playful exchange demonstrates how the strategy can be applied in real-life situations, making the conversation both informative and relatable.

---

Key Takeaways

1. Versatility of the Strategy: The "good cop, bad cop" technique is prevalent across various aspects of life, from parenting to business negotiations.

2. Awareness and Authenticity: Recognizing when this strategy is being used on you can help prevent manipulation. Striving for authentic interactions builds trust and stronger connections.

3. Adaptability in Roles: Whether in parenting or professional settings, understanding when to adopt a more lenient or strict approach can enhance effective communication and relationship-building.

4. Humor and Connection: Discussing common strategies like "good cop, bad cop" can foster meaningful conversations and connections, making language learning enjoyable and practical.

---

Conclusion

Episode 2437 of the All Ears English Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of the "good cop, bad cop" strategy, blending personal anecdotes with practical examples. Michelle Kaplan and Lindsay McMahon provide listeners with a rich understanding of how this tactic operates in different contexts, emphasizing the importance of awareness and authenticity in interpersonal interactions. Whether you're navigating parenting challenges or negotiating in the workplace, this episode equips you with the language and insights to manage these dynamics effectively.

---

Ready to connect like a native? Join the All Ears English community and enhance your American English skills through relatable conversations and cultural insights.

Transcript

[Michelle Kaplan]

This is the Allers English podcast, episode 2437. Are you good cop or bad cop?

[Aubrey Carter]

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection. With your American host, Martin Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, and Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz, coming to you from Arizona and New York City, usa. To get real time transcripts right on your phone and create your personalized vocabulary list, try the Allears English app for iOS and Android. Start your seven day free trial at allearsenglish.com app.

[Lindsay]

You've likely seen police officers be good cop and bad cop, but you may not realize you're using this strategy too. Today, learn how to connect over parenting and relationship styles and find out who on the all Ears English team is the bad cop. If you're a natural introvert, speaking out in a conversation in English can be stressful. Maybe at work you're unsure if people will understand you or you're worried they'll ask you to repeat so you stay quiet. Let's finally get over this challenge in 2025. Start by taking our free fluency score quiz to find out your level and then get an action plan to get fluent. Go to allearsenglish.com fluencyscore one more time, go to allearsenglish.com flute c y s C O R E hey, Aubry, how are you?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Hi, Michelle, how are you?

[Lindsay]

I'm good, I'm good. I'm excited to record with you today. Guys. Lindsay is away, but she is coming back, so don't worry. She will be back soon. But.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, that's right.

[Lindsay]

Right. Aubry and I are having the fun opportunity to record together, so we're having a good time. Lindsay, we'll see you when you get back.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Awesome. This is so fun recording with you, Michelle. And as soon as I saw the question at the top of the episode, I got really excited because this has been. We'll go ahead and answer it here. But it's interesting for me and my husband. Okay.

[Lindsay]

All right. Are you the good cop or the bad cop when it comes to parenting?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. So this has been really interesting for us. I am usually the good cop, and then my husband comes in, he's more strict. He lays down the law. He's the bad cop. But that's how it's always been when we had younger kids and it has flipped with teenagers.

[Lindsay]

Oh, really?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Interesting. Like, it's fascinating and I'M sure some of you out there who had younger kids that are now growing up have been in this boat where you might parent toddlers. Young kids very differently from teenagers. So now we're sort of having to redefine the good cop, bad cop role. It's interesting that.

[Lindsay]

Oh, that is very interesting because, yeah, I would say right now I'm the good cop. Well, I would say I'm the pushover. I don't know if that counts as a good. But I. Yeah, I. I'm. I'm very much the gentle parenting, you know. Oh, we have to apologize if we say, you know, I'm very much like that. I'm not. I mean, I. Of course there are. I have my moments, but I'm. I'm the good cop.

[Michelle Kaplan]

That doesn't shock me. Michelle, you definitely seem like a good, good cop type of gal. I would be kind of surprised if you're like, I'm the bad cop. I' mean.

[Lindsay]

And of course, bad cops as parents, that doesn't necessarily mean they're mean, but they're. They are better able to maybe hold a boundary. They are able to get things like bad cops get things done.

[Michelle Kaplan]

That's true. Because sometimes you have to be strict in order to. Yeah. Create good habits to really. For me, it's about following through on consequences because it's usually more difficult for me to follow through with whatever I've threatened. Right.

[Lindsay]

Yes, yes. Right. Because if you do, there's a lot of empty threats I think that parents make. What's an empty threat?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, this is something you don't really intend to do. Like, I have threatened to sell my children's iPads because I want them to have less screen. I'll be like, if, you know, they'll. Sometimes I'll hide them, and then they'll find them and sneak it. And so then I'll say, if you do that again, I will sell your iPad. That's an empty threat. Because I need them to have them on road trips. I just need to stop, like, sneaking it when I don't want them to have it.

[Lindsay]

Right. Or like, this is. This is my favorite one. Like, my Dan is, like, famous for the empty threats, and it just cracks me up. Like, right now, the Knicks are in the playoffs, and we are watching every single game religiously. It's the only sport I truly, truly care about. And my son is watching. And so, like, if there's. I will not, not watch a game. And I want to watch with my son because it's fun to watch with Him. It's special. And so Dan will be like, all right, well, we're not watching the next game. If I. If blah, blah, blah. And I, like, we're not gonna actually do it.

[Michelle Kaplan]

You're gonna follow through on that.

[Lindsay]

Why would. Like. That would be punishing myself. You know, just that it reminds me.

[Michelle Kaplan]

I feel like the most famous empty threat is, I will turn this around when kids are fighting in the back seat. We've all done that.

[Lindsay]

Yeah. Or, yeah. He'll be like, we're going home. I'm like, really? Like, we're like, we're def. We're obviously not going home.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Or, like, don't make that threat because I don't want to. Wherever we're going to go, the kids don't care.

[Lindsay]

So my problem is then I don't make any threats, and I just let.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Them follow through on it. That's really funny.

[Lindsay]

Yeah, but that's what you're supposed to do. That's what I. That's what the. The Instagram accounts tell me anyways, that you're supposed to show that boundary. Show that you're serious. So I don't know.

[Michelle Kaplan]

But a great way to connect friends to ask if they're the good cop or the bad cop. And this can be about parenting, for sure, but also in relationships, a lot of different things about your life. You might be the good cop or the bad cop.

[Lindsay]

Exactly. So Lindsay and I recently had this expression come up on an episode of Business English, and that's why we decided, oh, my gosh, we have to cover it on All Ears English. So I'm excited to talk about it with you, Aubrey. So. But it sounds like you use this expression. This is pretty common, Right?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Exactly. Right. It's. It's often if, like, one person's acting really nice or is really nice, and then the other person is either strict, lays down the law, like, acts like the tough one or sometimes the mean one. Right. It's usually on purpose. It actually happens. You see this a lot in, like, true crime shows when they bring in whoever's been accused of a crime, and you have the good cop go in and be really nice, and then the bad cop comes in. To me, it's usually bad cop. First they, like, scare them.

[Lindsay]

Right. And then. Right. Right.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Comes in and they trust them.

[Lindsay]

Right, Exactly. Yeah. One is really nice, the other one lays down the law. I love that expression they like. So one is kind of acting like the tough one or is the tough one. So that's this idea of good cop, bad cop, and It's. And it's usually a purposeful approach, maybe to get someone to act in a certain way, to do something, sign on to something. I mean, again, Aubry, we're talking. This just made me think of parenting right away.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Of course.

[Lindsay]

So, like, an example could be maybe a kid wants to sleep over at a friend's house, and one parent says no, and the other might say, oh, it's okay if you do whatever. If you do your chores, something like this. Aubry, how do you feel about. Are your kids allowed to have sleepovers?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Oh, you know, they weren't when they were younger, but now as they get older, a lot of birthday parties are sleepovers, and I don't want them to miss them. So we do allow that, and sometimes we'll allow them to have a sleepover, but it's really hard because I feel like they're so tired and cranky the next day.

[Lindsay]

Oh.

[Michelle Kaplan]

So that's really why I hate sleepovers. That's fair.

[Lindsay]

That's fair. My kids have had, you know, friends sleep over, but usually it's when the parents. Like, we had friends from out of town come and so. Or New Year's Eve if we're all sleeping over, but they're too little right now to have, you know, a real sleepover. But I used to love it as a kid.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. But we were always really naughty on sleepovers. We would go and toilet paper people's houses. In Idaho, where I grew up, very rural, we would just get a ton of toilet paper and throw it up in the trees and over the house. We would just toilet paper someone. Someone's house in the middle of the night. That does not happen in Arizona because there's cactus everywhere. Everyone has cacti. And if you get toilet paper in the cacti, it's never coming off. You can't get it off. So that's not really a thing here, luckily.

[Lindsay]

Wow. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, any. I mean, we already kind of touched on this, but any other examples you can think of in parenting where there's a good cop, bad cop situation.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. To get kids to do chores. I think sometimes. Right. If they're just not doing very good at helping on their own, sometimes one parent will intentionally, like, come down really hard and be mean. Then the other parent comes to be like, we love you. We're grateful for all you do, but if you could just do your chores. Right. And then you're hopeful that they. That's the same as what the cops are doing where you're like, maybe they're scared of or, you know, more intimidated by one parent, and then they'll actually do what the nice parent wants them to do. It's interesting. I could imagine it creating sort of some toxic relationships, though it's probably not always the best parenting strategy. What do you.

[Lindsay]

No, Right. You don't want it to be that one person is. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. In this role. So it's. It's good if you switch off a little bit or. Yeah. But yeah, to me, this can also be really useful in the business world. So, like, for example, two supervisors, maybe they're trying to set limits, and one of them is really strict, and the other also gets people to get things done, but lets them vent about the strict one. Right. Or just vent about their situation.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Interesting.

[Lindsay]

But do you think being. Doing good cop, bad cop, is it manipulative?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Absolutely. It's definitely manipulative, especially if it's being used intentionally. Here's where I've seen this the most, Michelle, is when I'm buying a car at a car dealership, and you have the person who's helping you is so nice, and we're going to be able to help whatever. And then if you try to negotiate the price, they say, oh, I need to go and speak to my supervisor. And they come back and they're like, no. He said. And that that person is the bad cop that is saying no to all the things that this salesman said. You have. Right. And if you're really insisting, they'll bring in the bad cop. They'll bring in, like, the supervisor who's like, sorry, this. Other than they give you all the reasons that can't happen so that your salesperson can stay good cop.

[Lindsay]

The good one. Yeah.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Have you had that happen?

[Lindsay]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I haven't bought a car in a while, but I do know that. Yeah. Those are the. Those are the kind of games.

[Michelle Kaplan]

You can feel them manipulating you. You're like, but what are you gonna do?

[Lindsay]

Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I also. Sometimes this makes me think of when people say, like, oh, don't blame me. You know, it's. It's not. It's not me.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Those are the rules. I didn't make the rules. I'll say that as a parent too. Right. Those are the rules. You know, I didn't write the rules. Especially if it's like going to school, something like that, and they don't want to go. I was like, everyone has to go to school. Don't blame me. I didn't. I didn't it's not.

[Lindsay]

I didn't make up. I didn't invent school.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Exactly.

[Lindsay]

I love that.

[Unknown]

All right, shop 4th of July Savings at the Home Depot right now and get up to 40 off, plus up to an extra 600 off select appliances with free delivery like Samsung. From all in one washer dryers to smart refrigerators. Upgrade to tech you can trust with Samsung appliances. The Home Depot has what you need to simplify your routine. Don't miss 4th of July appliance savings at the Home Depot. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $396 or more. Offer valid June 18 through July 9, US only. See store online for details.

[Lindsay]

Okay, so, Aubrey, how do we actually use this in conversation, though? Right? So to. I. I sometimes I'll hear somebody say, oh, I'll. I'll be the good cop. You'd be the bad cop. Right.

[Michelle Kaplan]

I've totally heard friends say this recently. I remember their. Their daughter was asking for something, she wanted something, and they had found out over, like, a text. They'd gotten a text, and so then they were going to need to go and discuss it with her. And I think he was like, I'll be good cop, you be bad cop. And they were kind of joking, but also it's true. Like, they were like, we're gonna try and use this strategy to either talk her out of whatever she wanted. Something like that. It's so funny.

[Lindsay]

Right, right, exactly. Or. Or here, here. Aubrey, you want to read this next one on another example?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Okay, I'll start us. My husband and I are very good cop, bad cop. It takes a little planning, but it works.

[Lindsay]

Okay, so you could use it in that way. Or here's another example. When we go in there to close the deal, I'll be good cop, you be bad cop.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yes. Right. Whether it's at a car dealership or at work, a negotiation, trying to get a contract signed, often this is a strategy for one person to be good cop and one to be bad cop.

[Lindsay]

That's right. So you think it's a good strategy? You think it's good for there to be a good cop, bad cop?

[Michelle Kaplan]

That's a good question. I think if it's really obvious, if the manipulation is obvious, I think it can hurt the connection. Actually, I think I'm less likely to, like, trust someone and buy it or sign the contract if I feel them using this tactic on me. What do you think?

[Lindsay]

Yeah, I agree. It's. It can some. And sometimes you kind of walk into a situation knowing that, like, the Car dealership. Sometimes that might be a little less obvious. But, yeah, definitely. If you realize that that's been done to. You feel very slighted. And that definitely is going to make you lose trust. So we're not suggesting this as a strategy. We're just letting you know that it does happen and letting you know about this expression because you will hear it. Absolutely. In the wild.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, let's do a role play here. You and I are friends whose kids are playing at the park, and we want them to leave the park. I've been there so many times, it is really difficult. I'm like. And scream.

[Lindsay]

God.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, they don't want to leave.

[Lindsay]

It always works when somebody like. I mean, the better thing is to leave at the same time as the friend. That's always.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Absolutely.

[Lindsay]

I've definitely been like.

[Michelle Kaplan]

It's the worst.

[Lindsay]

Yeah, I've been. Sometimes I've been like, thinking, okay, well, I could stay another 10 minutes, but when I hear a friend is going, I just go, okay, time to go out. This is the moment. So here we go. Okay, so should I tell them about the ice cream?

[Michelle Kaplan]

Sure. And I'll tell them it's time to leave. I'll be bad copy.

[Lindsay]

Are you sure?

[Michelle Kaplan]

I don't mind. You can be the good cop.

[Lindsay]

Okay, fine. Next time we'll switch.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah. This is funny to think about it as two moms. Like, we got to get the kids out of here, but then we'll bribe them with ice cream. You tell them we gotta leave. I'll tell them we're having ice cream. Next time you can be the good cop. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Exactly.

[Lindsay]

So, yeah, you said, I'll tell them it's time to leave. I'll be the bad cop. And then I said, are you sure?

[Michelle Kaplan]

And you said, yeah, I don't mind. You be the good cop. And yeah, this. We will sort of name it sometimes. Like, whether it's with children or at work, sometimes we'll explicitly name that we're using this strategy. Often, not Right. Often you just find yourself one person being more strict and one not. You're not really thinking it through. Not intentionally. Like being good cop and bad cop all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Lindsay]

Oh, my gosh, this is fun. Guys, head on over to episode 24. 24. That was. You strike me as someone who will love this episode.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yeah, that was a fun one. That was Lindsay and I. This phrase. You strike me as something or she struck me as. You want to be using this. So if you missed it, scroll up and be sure to hit follow here on the podcast. If you missed it, you're probably missing amazing episodes. So hit follow right here on Allers English.

[Lindsay]

Awesome. To get more connection. All right, takeaway today. Yeah, this is super common. You're going to hear it, use it to connect with someone. It's a really fun question. Look how much fun Aubry and I have been having talking about this. It's just it brings up so many other topics and can kind of be pretty humorous and. Yeah, but definitely look out for when somebody might be playing you with good cop, bad cop then.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Exactly right. Avoid being manipulated by this. But absolutely. I think this is a great connection topic to strike this up with a friend. Just ask, you know, are you good cop or bad cop with your kids? And then sometimes it switches back and forth. It's going to be an interesting conversation.

[Lindsay]

Definitely. Oh my gosh. For sure it is. All right, Aubry, well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. This was a lot of fun and I'll see you soon.

[Michelle Kaplan]

Yes, see you next time.

[Lindsay]

All right, bye bye, guys.

[Aubrey Carter]

Thanks for listening to all ears. English. Would you like to know your English level? Take our 2 minute quiz, go to allearsenglish.com forward/fluencyscore and if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time.