AEE 2492: 4 English Idioms to Fight Fire With Fire

Summary

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All Ears English Podcast – Episode 2492

Title: 4 English Idioms to Fight Fire With Fire
Hosts: Lindsay McMahon & Aubrey Carter
Date: October 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Lindsay and Aubrey teach four classic American English idioms used for responding to others’ actions—especially when it comes to “fighting fire with fire.” The episode explores how these idioms can be used in both playful and more confrontational situations, with practical examples and a fun roommate role-play. The hosts emphasize natural usage, regional differences, and the importance of balancing assertiveness and connection in conversations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Why Discuss Revenge and Retaliation Idioms?

• Context: The hosts respond to a YouTube listener’s question regarding the idiom “two can play at that game,” expanding on the topic with three similar phrases.
• Host perspectives:
  • Not naturally vindictive: Both Lindsay and Aubrey discuss not being “vindictive” people, preferring to avoid conflict rather than seek revenge ([02:28]–[03:07]).
  • Pop culture connection: Vindictive behavior is often showcased in reality TV, making for entertaining but “brain-numbing” viewing ([04:12]–[04:59]).

Idiom #1: Two Can Play at That Game ([05:06])

• Meaning: Used to signal that you can respond to someone’s behavior with the same action, sometimes as a mild threat, but also competitively or teasingly.
• Examples:
  • Negative: “I can't believe he didn’t invite me to his New Year's Eve party. Well, two can play at that game. See if he gets invited to my birthday.” ([06:06])
  • Playful: “He brought in homemade brownies for the office. Two can play at that game. I'm gonna bring in my famous cookies next week.” ([07:15])
• Regional Differences: Sometimes heard as “two can play that game” without “at,” though “at that game” is considered more standard ([06:29]–[07:00]).
• Notable Quote:
  • “It is definitely more commonly used in sort of the like angry, negative, vindictive ... Most of the time you hear it, that’s how it’s going to be used.” – Aubrey ([07:58])

Idiom #2: Turnabout is Fair Play ([08:26])

• Meaning: It’s fair to retaliate if someone has treated you a certain way, often used in a light-hearted context.
• Usage: Less common nowadays, but familiar to older generations and in classic films.
• Examples:
  • “He always borrows my charger without asking, so I took his today. Turnabout is fair play.” ([09:02])
• Notable Insight:
  • “It rhymes too. It does. Fun to say. Right. ... I feel like I heard it more often growing up.” – Aubrey ([09:09])

Idiom #3: Fight Fire with Fire ([09:20])

• Meaning: To respond to aggression or unfair behavior with similar tactics—can be serious or playful depending on tone/context.
• Contextual Uses:
  • Competitive sports: “The opposing team started playing dirty, so our coach told us to fight fire with fire.” ([09:30])
  • Teasing: “He made fun of my dress in the group chat. So I fought fire with fire and posted his high school yearbook photo.” ([09:56])
  • Politics: Using the same tactics as your opponents in campaigns. ([10:08]–[10:29])
• Notable Quote:
  • “It can be more serious. Right. ... We will hear this in politics.” – Aubrey ([10:08])

Idiom #4: Give Someone a Taste of Their Own Medicine ([10:40])

• Meaning: To treat someone the same (usually negative) way they have treated you.
• Commonality: Very popular in movies, books, and everyday conversation.
• Examples:
  • “My brother always mocks my dance move. So when he started dancing at the party, I did the same to him. Just giving him a taste of his own medicine.” ([11:10])
• Serious vs. Playful: Can apply to light pranks or to more significant negative behavior.
• Notable Insight:
  • “If someone’s nice to you, you’re not going to say ‘give them a taste of their own medicine.’ No, it’s about negative treatment that you are going to give back to them.” – Aubrey ([10:40])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There's definitely quite a bit of [vindictiveness] on those [reality] shows.” – Aubrey ([04:21])
• “It’s like junk food, kind of, right?” – Lindsay, on reality TV ([04:52])
• “[Two can play at that game] ... It is usually with the ‘at.’” – Aubrey, discussing regional idiom variations ([06:46])
• “Idioms are so fun. They make language fun. I love whenever someone throws an idiom into a conversation, I’m often like, ‘I see what you did there and I like it.’” – Aubrey ([16:39])

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Segment Timestamps

• [02:28] – Do you consider yourself vindictive?
• [03:22] – Listener question introduction: “two can play at that game”
• [05:06] – Explanation and examples of “two can play at that game”
• [07:00] – Regional differences in idiom phrasing
• [08:26] – “Turnabout is fair play” idiom and examples
• [09:20] – “Fight fire with fire” idiom in sports and politics
• [10:40] – “Give someone a taste of their own medicine” explained
• [13:20] – Roommate role play applying all four idioms
• [14:57] – Family fridge etiquette chat
• [16:51] – Takeaways: Assertiveness, expressing frustration, and maintaining connection

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Roommate Role Play Highlights ([13:20]–[15:59])

Scenario: College roommates argue over food being eaten

• “Well, two can play at that game. I'm helping myself to your snacks.” – Aubrey ([13:34])
• “Turnabout is fair play. Just don't eat the last of my Oreos.” – Lindsay ([13:38])
• “I gotta fight fire with fire. So you'll leave my leftovers alone next time?” – Aubrey ([13:41])
• “I had to give you a taste of your own medicine so you could feel my pain.” – Aubrey ([13:49])

The hosts reflect on family fridge etiquette, with Aubrey sharing how her teenagers’ self-bought food must be respected—“Like roommates!” ([14:02])

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Final Takeaways

• Balancing Connection and Assertiveness:
  “If someone is acting in a way that frustrates you, it is good to call it out... Being vindictive can really hurt the connection. But also, just being frustrated about someone's actions but never saying anything... Not better.” – Aubrey ([16:51])

• Use Idioms to Keep Conversations Light:
  Playful idioms like these are a great way to signal you’re addressing a behavior, but don’t want to escalate the conflict.

• Practice for Real Life:
  These idioms are “good connection skills” for relationships and navigating small conflicts with humor and authenticity ([17:28]).

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Suggested Further Listening

• Episode 2481: “Truth be told, these idioms will improve your English” – for more idiomatic expressions ([16:26]).

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Summary prepared for ESL learners and teachers seeking to master American English idioms, understand their context, and foster connection in conversation—true to the All Ears English motto: “Connection, not Perfection!”

Transcript

[A]

This is an All Ears English podcast. Episode 24924 English idioms to Fight Fire With Fire.

[B]

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American host, Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz, and Lindsey McMahon, the English adventurer, coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, usa. And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com subscribe when someone does something you don't like, what can you say about your response? If you English today get four fiery idioms for situations that are light hearted or a bit heavier in English.

[A]

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[B]

Hey there, Aubrey. How's it going?

[A]

I'm great, Lindsay. How are you?

[B]

Good. What's. What are we getting into today?

[A]

Well, I have a question for you to start this out. All right. What? Do you consider yourself a vindictive person?

[B]

Oh my gosh. That word scares me sometimes. Or at least the meaning of it. So I would say scary word. Yeah, it's a scary word. No, I don't really go out of my way to kind of get, get back at people or bring a sense of, like, make things even. I don't. I try to just stay away from someone if I' had issues with them. So.

[A]

Yeah, me neither. I'm not one that seeks revenge. I don't think I'm vindictive. I. I might hold a grudge, but I'm not trying to like, get back at them.

[B]

Right, right. They wouldn't know because you're not interacting with them.

[A]

I'm avoiding them at all costs. Absolutely.

[B]

Love it. Love it. So today's episode's inspired by a question from YouTube. And by the way, YouTube is a great way to consume Oliver's English. You can go over to YouTube and type in all ears English and find our show, hit the subscribe button and watch five days a week.

[A]

All right. Yes, exactly. Especially if you prefer watching a video. These. These episodes are all videos as well. And it's a great place to leave comments, interact with us. Leave questions right there on YouTube.

[B]

Yeah. So this question comes from MAOA9748. And they said, chop liver. Great vocab. So I guess we covered that in an episode and he was responding to that. And then he says, how about two can play that game?

[A]

Yeah, two can play at that game. Which. I love this phrase. We are going to dive into that one today and three related phrases that are sort of about this, like seeking revenge, being vindictive.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. There are certain people that tend to be that way. Right? I mean, we see it in politics nowadays, but yeah, generally I would suggest staying away from. Staying away from all this. This.

[A]

I think if you watch reality tv, that's sort of what makes good tv is when people are vindictive more than the average person.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So I think not everyone would want to be on a reality show. Not everyone likes to watch, but there's definitely quite a bit of that on those shows.

[B]

Yeah. Did you watch reality TV shows from the beginning, Aubry? Like, what was it? Road Rules, all the early ones. Did you watch?

[A]

I didn't watch any of those early ones, but sometimes I will now I'll watch, like, Love is Blind or the Ultimatum or like Perfect Match. And I kind of love it. I find it very entertaining. But it is also. It does. It's kind of brain numbing. Like, I feel like I'm dumber after watching.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. It's true. I know. It's so funny. Yeah, it's like. It's like junk. It's like junk food kind of, Right?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Yeah. Love it.

[A]

I can't watch it if my partner's around. He's, like, mortified. He's, like, embarrassed for me and will make fun of me. So I can only watch it, like, when he's out of town.

[B]

Ah, that's hilarious. I love that. That's so funny. All right, so. So the listener asked. So the first one of our four that we're talking about today is the one the listener asked about. Two can play at that game.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, so we can dive into this one first. But guys, make sure if you're not following all yours English, be sure to hit follow wherever you find your podcast. We teach such fun vocab ID that can really make speaking English more fun.

[B]

Absolutely. Hit that follow button. All right, so. So what does this first phrase mean then, Aubrey? I'm sure our listeners may. Might have heard it on tv, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. So it's said to indicate that you intend to do to someone what they did to you, whatever they do. Right. If you're like, well, two can play at that game. You're saying, whatever you did, I could also do.

[B]

It's sort of a threat, right?

[A]

It is sort of a threat.

[B]

Yes. Yes. Oh, my gosh. So, for example, she stopped texting me back on purpose. All right, well, two can play at that game.

[A]

So, like, you're. So that means that you are now going to stop texting her back. You're saying that you can do the same thing she's doing to you. Right. So sometimes it is sort of angry and vindictive this way. Sort of showing a desire for revenge. Maybe you'll say, I can't believe he didn't invite me to his New Year's Eve party. Well, two can play at that game. See if he gets invited to my birthday. So you're saying I'm not going to invite him now?

[B]

Yes. I love it. Yeah. It's funny because I remember hearing two can play that game. But we have. We're adding at that. Which is maybe the textbook. More dictionary phrase.

[A]

I'm curious. I feel like I've only heard two can play at that game, but it's possible in different regions. It's different. Do you usually say two can play that game?

[B]

I don't know that I say this very much.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. It just wasn't as common where you live. It's pretty common where I grew up and where. And do hear it. I feel like I also hear it on podcasts and things, but it is usually with the at to can play at that game.

[B]

Okay. So that's probably the safe one to go with. You may regionally hear certain prepositions getting dropped, but go with at that game in general. So can it. Can it be positive or friendly at all? Can this be used at all if we're not some rageful, vindictive person?

[A]

Yeah. So that's what's interesting about this one. It can be, like, playfully competitive or more teasing. So, for example, you could say he brought in homemade brownies for the office. Two can play at that game. I'm gonna bring in my famous cookies next week. So this is more sort of like teasing, playful. There's not really like vindictive anger here.

[B]

No, there's nothing you're trying to get them back for. You just say, hey, I can do that too.

[A]

Exactly. Like, oh, he's getting all these bonus points. Well, to play at that game.

[B]

Yeah. There might be a competitive edge there because you're trying to say, oh, people love his brownies. Well, they're gonna love my famous cookies.

[A]

Right. But playfully competitive, right?

[B]

Totally. Or how about this one? She got me such a nice birthday gift. She too can play at that game. I'm going to find her a present she'll love.

[A]

Yeah. So this is, this is more rare for sure. Like, it makes sense. People could use it this way to can play at that game. I'm going to get her an amazing present. It is definitely more commonly used in sort of the like angry, negative, vindictive. Most of the time you hear it, that's how it's going to be used.

[B]

Yes. I love it. So that is one option we have if we want to fight fire with fire. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then we have another option. And this one is, is kind of new to me actually.

[A]

So this turnabout is fair play. This one's a little older, actually. Like you would hear this in maybe older movies. I know my parents will say this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I, I would maybe say it, but it's a little less common. It's maybe being phased out with some of these others that are more trendy. Right. But this means it's, it's fair to do something back to someone if they did it to you. But it is usually more light hearted. It's usually not like this angry. Well, turnabout's fair play. No, it's usually maybe about prank. Like someone might say, she pranked me last week, so I pulled one on her today. Turnabout. Spare play.

[B]

Yeah. This is very light.

[A]

Very light, right?

[B]

Yeah. Or he always borrows my charger without asking. So I took his today turn about his fair play. It rhymes too.

[A]

It does. Fun to say. Right. But I do agree with you that I don't hear it as often as I used to. I feel like I heard it more often growing up. You know, my parents both said it, but I don't hear it as much anymore.

[B]

Interesting. Okay, so that's one option. And the third option for our listeners today is to fight fire with fire, which is what we're talking about in the title of this episode. Tell us about this one.

[A]

Yeah, so this means to respond to aggression, hostility, or maybe like unfair tactics by Using similar methods. It can also be more playful depending on your tone and the context. So, for example, I feel like we hear this in sports a lot. You might say the opposing team started playing dirty. So our coach told us to fight fire with fire. So he's saying, use the same tactics on them. If they're going to do it, then we're going to do it.

[B]

Or he made fun of my dress in the group chat. So I fought fire with fire and posted his high school yearbook photo. Ooh, no one wants their high school yearbook photo posted.

[A]

Right. But these aren't like so angry and awful me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're just a little more playful, like teasing. But it can be more serious. Right. It could be more about aggression. We will hear this in politics, right? This politician was trying to not sling mud. Right. This was trying not to get personal. But then if the other one does, I say, well, I have to fight fire with fire and I'm going to use the same tactics.

[B]

Yeah. That's something we hear in the political conversation right now. How do people respond to what's going on from the other side? Good question.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting.

[B]

All right, number four.

[A]

Yeah. So this is give someone a taste of their own medicine. This is very common, right. It means to treat someone the way they have been treating you, but usually negative, Right. If someone's nice to you, you're not going to say, oh, give them a taste of their own medicine. No, it's about negative treatment that you are going to give back to them.

[B]

Yeah. And I'd say this one is pretty linguistically nostalgic. You'll hear it in movies, historical movies, stories. It's kind of everywhere, isn't it?

[A]

Right. I'm going to give you a taste of your own medicine, Right?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So, for example, my brother always mocks my dance move. So when he started dancing at the party, I did the same to him. Just giving him a taste of his own medicine.

[A]

That's totally something my brother would do. Or maybe he always hides my snacks as a joke. So I gave him a taste of his own medicine and hid his chips today.

[B]

Oh, that's never good.

[A]

But these are very pretty light hearted, right? It's not so negative, but it can be for more serious things as well. This. I could hear this in politics as well. Right? We're just giving that campaign a taste of their own medicine. If. Yes, if you're sort of using the same tactics. Tactics, right.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah, exactly. You saw pizza. You're like, this is college roommate pizza.

[B]

Where. Where else do you order pizza at 3am Right.

[A]

Exactly right. All right, I'll start us out. I saw you ate the slice of pizza I was saving.

[B]

I may have. I was hungry.

[A]

Well, two can play at that game. I'm helping myself to your snacks.

[B]

Turnabout is fair play. Just don't eat the last of my Oreos.

[A]

Oh, I'm eating the Oreos. I gotta fight fire with fire. So you'll leave my leftovers alone next time?

[B]

I promise I won't eat your pizza next time.

[A]

Thank you. I had to give you a taste of your own medicine so you could feel my pain.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Do you have that in your house where, like, people consider certain food their food? Or do you just like, is anything fair game in your fridge?

[A]

So this is really interesting. This wasn't an issue until I had teenagers that are working and they'll either bring food home from work or they'll go go get their own food. And because they've bought it with their hard earned money, they really care. They're like, nobody eat my leftovers. Right. So now we have to suddenly be. It's almost like roommates. We're having to be more careful.

[B]

Okay. Got a tiptoe. Fridge. Interesting. Okay.

[A]

Which deservedly so I could understand. So I try not to eat anyone.

[B]

Else'S food now in my House, it's all fair game. That's what I always say. Whatever is in the fridge. And your leftovers, I'll eat your leftovers. You know, if, if my partner goes out for dinner and brings home, I'll try that leftover.

[A]

You know, that's how it was for us once upon. But there have been times like that maybe I'll buy like us a package of cookies I love. And I. They'll just know like, those are moms. Don't eat them. And if someone eats them, I'm like, so mad.

[B]

So funny. Fridge etiquette, right? Family fridge etiquette. That's what it is. All right, let's go through the role play and then we'll wrap up for today. So you said, well, so again I eat your pizz. And you said, two can play at that game. And then you're gonna go eat my Oreos now.

[A]

Yep. I'm gonna eat all your snacks. And you said, okay, turnabout is fair play. And this is often where we'll say a phrase like this. It's sort of acknowledging like someone has a right to do something because we did it to them. Right. Okay. Turnabout is fair play.

[B]

Good. And then you said, oh, I'm. I'm eating the Oreos. I gotta fight fire with fire. So you'll leave my leftovers alone?

[A]

Yeah. So you had told me not to eat. I'm like, oh, I'm eating them because. So this. Fight fire with fire. I need to eat something that you treasure as much as I. That pizza.

[B]

Yeah. You need to choose the right thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Otherwise it won't.

[A]

Otherwise you won't feel my pain sting.

[B]

Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly.

[A]

And then I finished it with. I had to give you a taste of your own medicine so you could feel my pain. So I'm. Same thing. I'm just saying, like I needed you to, you know, I needed to. To do a similar action so that you would feel like I did.

[B]

Yeah. And again, this is still a pretty light hearted disagreement. It's not a serious fight. But again, most of these expressions could be placed into a more serious scenario if you want.

[A]

Absolutely. If this were a role play, someone cheating on another person's boyfriend, this suddenly, it would be like a very serious tone and you could use all of these same phrases, but like it would be dark. That would be dark.

[B]

Oh my God. Hopefully we're not in those situations too much.

[A]

Exactly. I didn't even want to read a role play about that.

[B]

No, thank you. We'll keep it light here in all our English. Guys, go check out 2481. Truth be told, these idioms will improve your English. So you learned four idioms about truth. Really good one to add to today's playlist.

[A]

Absolutely. Idioms are so fun. They make language fun. I love whenever someone throws an idiom into a conversation, I'm often like, I see what you did there and I like it.

[B]

Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. Any final takeaway, Aubry? Other than that.

[A]

Yeah. This is interesting. If someone isn't is acting in a way that frustrates you, it is good to call it out. Right. So that resentment doesn't build up. Being vindictive can really hurt the connection. But also being frustrated about someone's actions but never saying anything. Imagine we're roommates and you're stealing my pizza and I never say anything and I just start resenting you and I move out. Not better.

[B]

Yeah. That will fester inside you and it will create a bigger problem. It's better to be in that relationship where you can say something, call people out on things.

[A]

Yes. And these more playful phrases are great to be able to call someone out but be sort of joking and light hearted about it.

[B]

Excellent. I love it. Such a good connection skill in the end.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because in the end it's about how we respond to what happens. Right. It's not what happens. Good stuff.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

All right, Aubry, see you next time. Have a good day. Thanks for being on the show today.

[A]

Thanks, Lindsay. See you next time. Take care.

[B]

Bye. Thanks for listening. To all ears. English. Would you like to know your English level? Take our two minute quiz. Go to allearsenglish.com forward/fluency score. And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time.

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