AEE 2512: How to Riff in English for Better Small Talk

Summary

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All Ears English Podcast – Episode 2512: How to Riff in English for Better Small Talk

Hosts: Lindsay McMahon and Aubrey Carter
Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the concept of “riffing” in English conversation—how to move beyond the limits of typical small talk and create genuine connections. Inspired by an interview with Maya Ross Milan, a business professor and New York Times contributor, Lindsay and Aubrey demonstrate how playful, improvisational banter can transform surface-level exchanges into meaningful, memorable interactions. The hosts offer practical English conversation strategies, especially for ESL learners looking to sound more natural and build rapport. Three detailed role plays illustrate riffing in action.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Riffing? [03:40–04:51]

• Definition: Riffing means to improvise, playfully building on a topic spontaneously, much like musicians do in jazz.

  • “To riff, it means to improve and build on a subject.” — Lindsay (04:14)
  • “We do the same thing in conversation. We don’t have anything memorized. We’re having to build on what we hear.” — Aubrey (04:22)
  • Riffing is about being agile and playful, moving quickly from small talk to humor, anecdotes, or quirky questions.

• Why Riffing?

  • Small talk feels superficial or scripted; riffing creates opportunities for real connection and deeper relationships.
  • “You don’t want them to be bored. You want to make it fun and interesting.” — Aubrey (04:42)
  • It signals openness to friendship and helps discover common ground.

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2. Why Small Talk Falls Short [05:25–05:50]

• Small talk is safe but doesn’t build depth:
  • “Small talk is so formal and so, I don’t know, it feels scripted sometimes.” — Lindsay (05:50)
  • Riffing acts as a “test” to see if you can move into a more genuine relationship.
  • Staying in small talk can prevent real connection, while riffing is a “cool signal” that you’re interested in more.

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3. How to Riff: Practical Role Plays & Topics

A. Awkward Moments [07:00–08:28]

• Situation: Joking about awkward social mishaps (e.g., waving at the wrong person)
  • Example exchange:
    • Aubrey: “Oh, I just dodged a bullet. I thought that person was waving and almost waved back, but they were waving at someone behind me.” (07:00)
    • Lindsay: “Classic. I’m impressed you caught yourself in time.” (07:10)
    • Both share stories and laugh about common embarrassing moments.
  • Insight:
    • These universally relatable topics create a quick sense of camaraderie.
    • “We could just talk about the weather or just small talk forever. But instead, we’re going to be laughing here.” — Aubrey (07:49)

B. Forgetting Names [08:43–09:39]

• Situation: Admitting to being bad with names, playfully teasing oneself
  • Example exchange:
    • Aubrey: “I apologize in advance if I forget your name. I am terrible with names.” (08:49)
    • Lindsay: “Me too. It’s like my brain goes, nope, too much information. Delete.” (08:54)
    • Joking about tricks to cover up, using “friend,” or getting names wrong for comic relief.
    • Lindsay: “Honestly, forgetting names should be an Olympic sport. We’d all get gold medals.” (09:19)
  • Insight:
    • Such honesty instantly builds rapport; humor about shared weaknesses bridges formality.

C. Unusual Food Combos [12:12–13:41]

• Situation: Prompting with an unexpected question about “weirdest food combo” people enjoy
  • Example exchange:
    • Aubrey: “So, what’s the weirdest food combo you secretly love?” (12:12)
    • Lindsay: “Definitely peanut butter on pickles.” (12:17)
    • Aubrey: “Wait, what? Peanut butter and pickles. That’s actually terrifying.” (12:21)
    • They then riff about other odd combos (chocolate & fries, ice cream & sriracha), poking fun at each other.
    • Aubrey: “We’re basically flavor alchemists here.” (12:45)
  • Insight:
    • Fun, random questions jump-start playful interaction and quickly reveal personalities.

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4. Tips for Riffing in English [13:55–14:57]

• Start with a Relatable, Slightly Surprising Question:
  • Out-of-the-blue but not so niche your partner can't follow.
  • If the other person doesn’t have an answer, be ready to share yours and make it playful.
• Evaluate Responses:
  • If your partner enjoys the riff, keep going. If not, smoothly pivot back to safer small talk.
• Use Humor and Self-Deprecation:
  • Joking about shared struggles (like forgetting names) helps break down barriers.
• This is a Small Shift, Not a Major Skill Change:
  • “Like I said earlier, for a lot of our listeners, this is just a tiny shift. This is not a huge new skill set we have to learn. It’s a way of engaging.” — Lindsay (14:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On riffing as relationship test:
  • “It’s a kind of a cool signal and a test, a way to figure out, is there going to be something more here? Can we actually become friends?” — Lindsay (05:25)
• On universality of awkwardness:
  • “Everything we said in this awkwardness, we’ve all been there.” — Aubrey (08:28)
• On honesty as connection:
  • “If you say that you’ve done it, I can see myself in you. Like, you know, that’s a real connection moment.” — Lindsay (08:28)
• On moving away from small talk:
  • “We’re moving away from the scripts we learned in our textbooks, the topics like weather, which don’t ultimately get you very far.” — Lindsay (14:36)
• On the essence of riffing:
  • “You need to find something you have in common and then build on it in a fun, playful way.” — Aubrey (14:17)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:40] – What is riffing? Definition and analogy to jazz/improvisation
• [05:25] – Why riffing is a “test” for deeper friendships
• [07:00] – Awkward moments (role play & breakdown)
• [08:49] – Forgetting names (role play & insights)
• [12:12] – Weird food combos (role play & breakdown)
• [14:17] – Main takeaway: moving from small talk to genuine connection
• [14:57] – Encouragement for listeners to try riffing and share their stories

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Final Takeaway

The hosts encourage listeners to try riffing during their next English-language encounter. It doesn’t require perfect grammar or native-level vocabulary; it’s about pushing past surface topics and being a little braver, more playful, and more honest. Even a small move away from standard small talk can build bridges and lead to more authentic connections.
“Happy riffing, everyone!” — Aubrey (15:32)

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If you experiment with riffing, share your stories with the All Ears English team via email or YouTube comments!

Transcript

[A]

This is an All Ears English podcast. Episode 2512 how to Riff in English for Better Small Talk.

[B]

Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American host, Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz and Lindsey McMahon, the English adventurer, coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, usa. And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com subscribe. You've tried small talk and you've seen its limitations. It keeps things superficial. So today in this follow up episode, let's look at a new way to engage called riffing. Get skills to riff on three different topics for better connection. Today, the countdown is on. Holiday shopping season is officially here. Uncommon Goods takes the stress out of gifting with thousands of unique, high quality finds you won't see anywhere else. Don't wait. The most meaningful gifts get scooped up fast and now's the perfect time to cross names off your list. Uncommon Goods looks for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade or made in the U.S. many are crafted by independent artists and small businesses, making every gift feel meaningful and truly one of a kind. Just like learning the basics of grammar is key to getting started with English. I've heard that knife skills are the foundation for good cooking. Since I want to learn to cook this year I went to Uncommon Goods and found an authentic Thai chef's knife called the Moon Knife. Created in a small village in Thailand by talented artists, it's perfect for cutting pork or poultry. With a hand forged tool like this, I feel even more excited to improve my cooking. So don't wait. Cross those names off your list before the rush to get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com AEE that's U N C O M M O n G o o d s.com a e e for 15 off Uncommon Goods we're all out of the OR. Hello Aubry. How are you today? Excellent.

[A]

Lindsay, how are you? Good.

[B]

Aubry, I have a question for you to start off the day.

[A]

All right.

[B]

So are you good at riffing when you first meet someone?

[A]

Yes, I think I am. This is one of my skills.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I feel like that I quickly move from small talk to like making a joke, testing to find out what we might have in common. Saying something that's a little bit, you know, out of the blue to see how they react and then riffing from there, or if they Say something like that. I can, you know, I'm. I'm pretty witty. I can give something to, like, quickly get to a little deeper.

[B]

Yeah. So you become playful quickly. And we'll talk about exactly what riff means. But what is this episode inspired by? Yes.

[A]

Earlier this week, I interviewed Maya Rocin, a professor at IESE Business School, about how riffing is the best way to turn small talk into connections. She had published an article. Article in the New York Times about it that we loved. Yes. So today we're going to show you how to do that. If you missed the interview, stay to the end. We'll share details. You can definitely listen to these out of order. But first. Yeah. What does that mean, Lindsay?

[B]

To riff. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I really think this could be the missing piece for so many of our listeners to bring their level up and really find that connection that we're looking for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So to riff, it means to improve and build on a subject. That's the definition there. But we'll go into more detail here. Aubrey.

[A]

Yeah. To improvise, I loved how Maya, if you haven't listened to it yet, but she sort of talked about how jazz is a lot about riffing and improvising. We do the same thing in conversations. Right. We don't have anything memorized. We're having to build on what we hear.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's a little bit spontaneous. I. I think of riffing as being playful, spontaneous, light on your feet.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. The goal is to find something to banter about rather than sticking with small talk. You don't want them to be bored. You want to make it fun and interesting.

[B]

Yeah. And again, on this show, we're all about connection, perfection. That is our entire vision on the show. And so we think this really does lead to real connection and stronger friendships. It. So this is a key piece for our listeners today. Love it.

[A]

Exactly. So we are going to share three role plays in all of these. Lindsay and I have just met at a conference and we've exchanged a few pleasantries. We're ready to start riffing. Right. To like, okay, let's. Let's find out if we are simpatico. Right. If we, like, have anything in common, if we could, like, maybe have a real connection, maybe be friends.

[B]

It's a kind of a cool signal and a. A test, a way to figure out, is there going to be something more here? Can we actually become friends? Or is this going to maintain a kind of a more formal, acquaintance style relationship?

[A]

Right, exactly. Which also would be fine. Sometimes you're going to realize, like, okay, we're just going to be acquaintances. That's fine. But often there are people that you could have a real connection with that you might not ever get there if you stay with small talk. Right.

[B]

Because small talk is so formal and so, I don't know, it feels scripted sometimes. Right. So before we get deeper into this, giving our listeners some great examples inspired by your conversation, let me go ahead and remind our listeners, guys, hit the follow button right now right here on All Ears English. If you're not following the show, you are probably missing some of our great episodes. If you're listening on YouTube, you can also hit subscribe.

[A]

Yes, awesome.

[B]

Hit.

[A]

Follow wherever you find your podcast.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, let's dive in with these role plays. The first one centers around awkwardness because the thing is, like Maya was saying, she and her friend, the co author of the article sort of were able to riff about coffee versus tea drinkers. So it's going to be centered around some kind of topic that is relatable. Right. It can't be something that's so niche that the person you're talking to might have no idea what you're talking about. It has to be something that most people are going to be able to banter about.

[B]

Right. And. And relate to, as you said. And awkwardness is definitely a topic. We've all felt awkward at different times in our lives.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

We all know that feeling of becoming embarrassed to feeling strange. And so this is a good riffing topic. So let's see what this looks like. Aubrey.

[A]

All right, I'll start us out. Ready? Oh, I just dodged a bullet. I thought that person was waving and almost waved back, but they're waving at someone behind me.

[B]

O classic. I'm impressed you caught yourself in time.

[A]

It was a close one. Do you ever say you too, when the waiter tells you to enjoy your meal?

[B]

Oh, constantly. Like, thanks, you too. And then I just want to melt into the floor. Yes.

[A]

Or the Uber driver drops you off at the airport and says, have a good flight. And you respond to you too.

[B]

And somehow they always make eye contact. Right as you realize it.

[A]

The worst eye contact of doom.

[B]

I love this. And what I like about this is this is a small shift away from small talk. It's not like we have to learn this whole new set of skills in order to riff. A lot of our listeners are already there. They're ready to riff.

[A]

Right, Exactly. Right. But we could just talk about the weather or, you know, just small talk forever. But instead we're going to be laughing here. We're going to be kind of finding out more about each other's personalities, what we find funny. If we're light hearted. Right. If. If the other person kind of responds and doesn't seem to be enjoying the conversation. You can pivot back to small talk if it's not a match.

[B]

Yeah. And I think connection also comes when we can see ourselves in someone else's experience, and that's more likely to come up with this kind of riffing awkwardness. Forgetting names is our next one. We've all done it. If you say that you've done it, I can see myself in you. Like, you know, I mean, that's a real connection moment. Right?

[A]

Exactly. Everything we said in this awkwardness, we've all been there. We've all waved at the person we thought was waving to us, and they're waving at some or said, you too. And that's not appropriate. Right. These are the kinds of things. It's such a human experience. So it's a perfect thing to riff about.

[B]

All right, I'm excited for this next one then on Forgetting Names. Here we go.

[A]

Start us.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I apologize in advance if I forget your name. I am terrible with names.

[B]

Me too. It's like my brain goes, nope, too much information. Delete.

[A]

Yes. And then you try to hide it by calling them friend or you. Hey, you.

[B]

That's better than accidentally calling them the wrong name. Hey, Sarah. I'm Lisa.

[A]

Right, Lisa. I knew that.

[B]

Smooth. Very believable.

[A]

Yeah, I'm basically a social ninja.

[B]

Honestly, forgetting names should be an Olympic sport. We'd all get gold medals.

[A]

Agreed. With bonus points for fake confidence while doing it.

[B]

And I love, I. I love that this could appear just as often at a business conference when you've just met that person as it could appear at a party. Like a social party. This goes across business and social media.

[A]

Absolutely. Both of these that we've shared so far are appropriate in any context. Right. Whether you've just met and you're trying to build your network or you're meeting a mutual friend at a party, they're not too formal. They're about very human experiences that pretty much anyone can relate to. I agree. You can use these anywhere.

[B]

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[A]

Are going to have this in common, too, right? It's interesting. A lot of people love to talk about food. You may have very different tastes or very different ideas about food, but it's pretty easier to start riffing about tastes, preferences. Weird. Make it fun.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because people do have weird taste in food.

[A]

Absolutely. And it's interesting.

[B]

And we can own that, right? We can own that. Okay, here we go.

[A]

All right, I'll start us. So, what's the weirdest food combo you secretly love?

[B]

Oh, wow. Weirdest. Definitely peanut butter on pickles.

[A]

Wait, what? Peanut butter and pickles. That's actually terrifying.

[B]

I know I don't admit this to many people because I know they'll judge me, but don't knock it till you try it.

[A]

So good, huh? I do like sweet and savory together. I might have to try it.

[B]

What about you? Any weird combos you love? Yes.

[A]

Chocolate and french fries. Hot fries dunked in chocolate.

[B]

That is actually genius. Sweet and salty is where it's at. We're basically flavor alchemists here.

[A]

Totally. I like to think of it as rebellion against basic snacks.

[B]

Agreed. Next step, ice cream and sriracha.

[A]

Oh, it can't be worse than peanut butter and pickles.

[B]

Now I want to go try peanut butter and pickles.

[A]

It's probably delicious. I know you love peanut butter.

[B]

I do. I mean, putting together two things you love. Why? I mean, how can it not be good? Aubry, how can you go wrong how can I not be good? Yeah.

[A]

I really love this because I love that it starts with a question that's kind of random, sort of out of the blue. If you haven't been chatting that long but you've exchan pleasantries, this is fun to sort of ask a random question might throw them off a tiny bit. Like it did you. Oh, wow. Weirdest. Like you're thrown a tiny bit, but you'll have an answer.

[B]

But that's fun. And then you can add your weird answer and we can match each other's weirdness in a way. Right?

[A]

Exactly right. And if someone's like, you know, I don't have anything. I can't think of anything. You could share yours. Have one ready. And then, you know, maybe like, poke fun at them for not having one. You know, maybe you need to find one.

[B]

I know. You start trying weird combinations. This is awesome. Guys. If you missed the episode where Aubrey interviewed Maya, go Back to episode 2510. What was the full name of that episode? Aubrey.

[A]

Yes. New York Times author Maya Ross Milon shares how riffing builds connection in English.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. So cool. What is our final takeaway for our listeners today?

[A]

Yeah, I absolutely agree with Maya that riffing in English is the best way to move from small talk to a real connection. You need to find something you have in common and then build on it in a fun, playful way. Have some banter, ask them a quirky question to get past small talk.

[B]

Exactly. We're moving away from the scripts we learned in our textbooks, the topics like weather, which don't ultimately get you very far, moving into topics where you could find that connection. And here's the good news. Like I said earlier, I think a lot of our listeners, this is just like a tiny shift, right? This is not a huge skill set. New skill set we have to learn. It's a way of engaging, right?

[A]

Absolutely. Just pivoting from those questions that are kind of boring. The weather, you know, whatever it could be to something a little more fun and interesting.

[B]

So good. So I'm excited for our listeners, guys. If you go and you try this, leave us a review or send us an email@support dollarsenglish.com let us know how it went. We're eager to hear your stories. All right.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. Just leave a comment on YouTube. We want to hear how the riffing goes. If you're able to build those connections and get past small talk.

[B]

Yay. Happy riffing, right? Happy riffing. Yes.

[A]

Happy riffing, everyone. All right.

[B]

Ever you have a good day. I'll talk to you soon.

[A]

Thanks. Bye bye.

[B]

Thanks for listening. To all ears. English Would you like to know your English level? Take our two minute quiz. Go to allearsenglish.com forward SLF fluency score and if you believe in connection not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time.

[C]

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