All-In Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi on self-driving's future, changing business model, job displacement
Date: September 17, 2025
Featuring: Chamath Palihapitiya, Jason Calacanis, David Sacks, David Friedberg, Dara Khosrowshahi (Uber CEO)

Episode Overview

The hosts welcome Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi for a deep-dive into Uber’s transformation, the rapid adoption of autonomous vehicles (AVs), evolving business models, and the societal questions around job displacement. Dara details Uber’s strategies for AV partnerships, the future of its marketplace, capital allocation, and how the company is preparing for a world of automation in transportation and delivery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Uber’s Progress and Partnerships in Autonomy

• Uber has over 20 partners across ride-hailing (mobility) and delivery autonomous initiatives.
• Partnerships are global, with strong ties to Waymo (in Atlanta and Austin) and leading Chinese AV players (Baidu, Weride, Pony), all of whom now run L4 vehicles (no safety driver) in Chinese cities ([01:10]–[02:19]).
• Hardware costs for autonomy are dropping rapidly (e.g., solid-state LIDAR from $20-30K to $300-500 per unit), facilitating rapid scaling ([05:57]–[06:38]).
  Quote:
  "Autonomy in China is hitting the big time, and a lot of these companies that want to expand outside of China we're partnering with." — Dara, [01:20]

2. Contrasting the Tesla Approach vs. Waymo and Others

• Tesla (Elon Musk): Emphasizes a camera-only, no-HD-maps approach with less expensive onboard compute, trading off hardware for advanced software requirements.
• Waymo & Others: Use sensor redundancy (camera, radar, LIDAR), detailed HD maps, and significant compute onboard for higher upfront hardware cost and reliability ([03:30]–[05:36]).
  Quote:
  "Elon's approach doesn't depend on HD maps, and again, it makes the job of solver harder." — Dara, [04:27]
  "Waymo is showing that it's achievable. Many of the Chinese players are showing that it's achievable as well." — Dara, [06:05]

3. Business Model Evolution: Asset-light to Hybrid Marketplace

• Uber intends to remain asset-light, acting as a marketplace bringing demand to the most efficient providers—whether human drivers or autonomous vehicles ([09:13]–[09:51]).
• Hybrid model: Human and AV fleets will co-exist for years; AVs won’t fully displace human drivers in the short to mid-term.
• Network value: Uber’s strength is aggregating high-volume, high-density demand that third-party fleet owners (including future financialized owners, like REIT-style fleet financiers) can tap into for higher vehicle utilization ([09:13]–[12:46]).
  Quote:
  "The utilization in terms of the revenue generating miles as a percentage of total miles driven is much, much higher on our network." — Dara, [09:51]

4. Platform Effects: Why AV Providers Partner with Uber

• Uber’s pitch to AV players (including to Tesla) is maximizing revenue via access to Uber’s demand; direct distribution alone means underutilization ([21:04]–[21:31]).
  Quote:
  "If you're looking to maximize the revenue of those robo taxis today, today we are your ticket to the maximization of that revenue." — Dara, [21:32]

5. Supporting Next-gen Mobility: EVTOLs & Drones

• Uber believes in scaling third-dimension mobility: investing in EVTOL (e.g., Joby) and pursuing drone and sidewalk robot delivery ([13:48]–[15:00]).
• Sidewalk robots serve dense, urban last-mile delivery within a ~1-mile radius; drones serve suburban, low-density areas.
• The challenge remains connecting first and last mile for both people and parcel delivery ([14:53]–[16:10]).
  Quote:
  "In cities of the world... they've built in the third dimension... but our transportation infrastructure has only expanded in two dimensions." — Dara, [14:28]

6. AV Job Displacement: Social Responsibility & Transition

• Near-term (next 5–7 years): Platform growth absorbs both robots and humans, with natural churn. In AV launch markets like Austin, human drivers’ earnings are stable or even improving ([23:35]–[24:15]).
• Long-term (10–15 years): Societal displacement is a real issue, and Uber is trialing programs like AI data labeling work for drivers to supplement income. But no “neat answer” yet ([23:35]–[25:20]).
  Quote:
  "For us, at least for the next five years, the number of robot cars coming onto the platform are not going to be displacing people because the platform is just growing so quickly..." — Dara, [23:41]
  "Long term, this is a big, big societal question that we're going to have to struggle with..." — Dara, [25:12]

7. Capital Allocation: Buybacks & Strategic Bets

• With strong profitability ($8.5B cash flow, top- and bottom-line growth), Uber can invest aggressively in AVs and fleets while still pursuing a $20B stock buyback ([16:10]–[18:58]).
• Investments are not either/or; Uber is both supporting financial returns for shareholders and expanding operational capabilities.
  Quote:
  "We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We are very comfortable that we've got enough capital to be super aggressive there..." — Dara, [18:02]

8. Asset-light Distribution and Marketplace Power

• Uber’s evolving from a platform for transportation to a broader platform for work and logistics, driving incremental value for partners by leveraging its high-frequency, high-density demand ([20:17]–[20:35]).
• As supply partners become even more asset-heavy (cars, drones, robots), Uber’s ability to supply “liquid” demand becomes even more strategically valuable.
  Quote:
  "We bring demand to the assets that are driving the movement of people and things and food and grocery, and these are all asset heavy businesses." — Dara, [20:35]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Competition and the Marketplace:
  "I think that most of these players, there are going to be some players like a Waymo, like a Tesla, who can build their direct channel. But we think if they want to drive maximum economics out of these really expensive cars, for now, they're going to also want to work with us." — Dara, [10:45]

• On City Partnerships:
  "We offer data for free for cities to embark on city planning, so to speak." — Dara, [08:03]

• On Autonomy in China:
  "Their capabilities are amazing...they take safety just as seriously as the Western companies do." — Dara, [02:19]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• AV Partnerships and Expansion: [01:10]–[03:12]
• Tesla vs. Waymo Approaches: [03:30]–[05:36]
• Marketplace Economics, Network Effects & Asset-light Vision: [09:13]–[12:46], [20:17]–[21:04]
• Job Displacement & Societal Impact: [23:35]–[25:20]
• Capital Allocation & Uber's Buyback: [16:10]–[18:58]
• Third-dimension Mobility (EVTOLs, Drones, Robots): [13:48]–[16:10]
• The Pitch to Tesla/Elon: [21:04]–[22:32]

Tone and Style

The episode is candid, energetic, and thoughtful, balancing irreverence (characteristic of the “besties”) with Dara’s direct, data-driven responses. Dara is optimistic but realistic, acknowledging both Uber’s strategic power and the societal complexities that come with massive tech disruption.

For listeners: This episode covers not only Uber’s inside strategies and technological bets but also pulls back the curtain on the inevitable frictions and philosophical questions driving the future of both work and urban mobility.