Podcast Summary: All Of It — “100 Pieces of Art with Jerry Saltz”

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Jerry Saltz, Senior Art Critic for New York Magazine, Pulitzer Prize winner
Date: September 9, 2024
Episode Focus: Celebrating 100 must-see works of art in New York City with expert input, highlighting the breadth of art in NYC through Jerry Saltz’s recommendations, stories, and engaging listener calls.

Episode Overview

The episode celebrates WNYC’s 100th anniversary with a unique project: compiling a list of 100 essential pieces of art to experience in New York City. Alison Stewart welcomes renowned art critic Jerry Saltz to share his picks, discuss what makes art meaningful, and hear from passionate listeners about their favorites. The conversation traverses centuries, genres, and artistic experiences—from Renaissance painting to contemporary public sculpture—while underscoring how art permeates everyday life in NYC and brings people together.

Main Discussion Points and Insights

Jerry Saltz's Criteria For Art Selection

• Expansive Definition of Art: Saltz emphasizes inclusivity, stating “anything can be art,” and chooses pieces ranging from public sculptures and historic panoramas to works once considered unfashionable.
  Quote: “If there were cave paintings in New York, I would have picked them to say that those are the greatest port of mammals ever made.” (01:39)
• Personal Connection: He intertwines personal stories of art encounters, placing value on how art makes viewers feel rather than on technical metrics.

1. Giovanni di Paolo’s "Creation of the World and the Expulsion from Paradise" (The Met)

• Saltz’s Childhood Encounter: He shares a powerful memory of being left at the Art Institute of Chicago and accidentally discovering di Paolo’s work, sparking an instant, emotional connection to narrative painting.
  Quote: “I suddenly understood this painting was telling a story. And that organized my visual thinking…” (02:16)
• Advice for Viewers: Saltz urges visitors to the Met’s Lehman Wing to “surrender” to art, experiencing without analytical barriers.
  Quote: “You cannot stand in front of a work of art and ask, what does this mean? We never ask, what does Mozart mean? We experience a work of art.” (04:29)
• Interpretation: The painting’s depiction of Adam and Eve “tells that story of bravery and knowledge of our first mother, Eve,” highlighting the complexity and multifaceted nature of biblical stories. (05:35)

2. Listener Contributions: The Personal Side of Art

• Edward Hopper’s "Early Sunday Morning" (Bob from Lawrenceville, NJ | 07:13–08:35):

  • Bob’s Take: Praises Hopper’s “wonderful colors” and rhythmic windows.
  • Saltz’s Response: Refutes the popular notion of Hopper’s work as strictly lonely, instead finding “a form of joy and a form of loneliness, which is solitude.”
    • Quote: “That sense of being ourselves in an empty space before it’s occupied by other people…” (07:49)

• Eleanor Roosevelt Sculpture (Judith from UWS | 08:41–09:30):

  • Judith’s Memory: Shares communal experiences gathering at the statue to read the Declaration of Independence.
  • Public Art Discussion: Saltz notes the private/public dichotomy of sculpture, referencing contemporary debates surrounding monuments.
    • Quote: “Isn’t public sculpture interesting because it exists in public and we experience it in private, and yet it can become the focal point of incredible tension…” (09:30)

3. The Panorama of the City of New York (Queens Museum) (10:46)

• Cultural History: Built in 1964 for the World’s Fair under Robert Moses, this gigantic model allows visitors to see “a city you’ve never seen before.”
  Quote: “...a 9335 square foot model of the city that I live in. That you live in.” (10:48)
• Magical Realism: Saltz describes the blend of artifice and magic (“It’s not magic, but it’s magical.”), likening it to Borges’s one-to-one mapping idea. (12:11)

4. David Hammons’ "Day’s End" (West Side Piers) (12:56)

• Description: A ghostly aluminum sculpture echoing a lost pier’s history—from slave trade and industry to queer nightlife and artistic transformation.
• Artist Profile: Saltz calls Hammons “a hero, an anti-artist...channels a dark, anti-heroic insider, outsider energy” (13:18), celebrating his refusal to conform.
• Urban Art Ecosystem: Mentions viewing the piece from the Whitney Museum and muses on Little Island’s contrasting public architecture.

5. James Turrell’s "Meeting" (MoMA PS1) (16:21)

• Listener Pick (Kathy): Describes entering the sky room as “magical, spiritual, beautiful… reverie of solitude and contemplation.” (16:29)
• Saltz’s Addition: Emphasizes the transformative experience of lying beneath the open sky.
  • Quote: “They pull the ceiling back and you...look up at the sky. It could be anything. And it takes you out of yourself.” (17:13)

6. Jasper Johns’ "American Flag" (MoMA) (18:27)

• Origin Story: Inspired by a dream, Johns paints his first flag at age 24.
• Material Innovation: Adopts encaustic for texture and immediacy.
  • Quote: “It embodies every mark, every stroke, every thought. It embodies the process. And is it a real flag?...Is it satiric or is it patriotic?”
• Saltz’s Advice to Artists:
  • Quote: “You do everything you can do. If you can avoid it, avoid it. And then you do what is helpless and unavoidable.” (20:32)
  • Message: Embrace the unavoidable, even if it’s embarrassing or frightening.

7. Picasso’s "Les Demoiselles d’Avignon" (MoMA) (21:07–23:41)

• Radical Departure: Described as “resurrection, insurrection, revolution,” this marks a shattering of classic perspective in art.
• The Picasso-Matisse Rivalry: Sets up a dynamic between the “succulent Frenchman and the truculent Spaniard,” leading to Cubism’s birth.
• Guard Note: Saltz is self-aware about the “great man theory” but acknowledges its former dominance.
  • Quote: “That time is over. Thank God.”

8. Kouros and Roman Wall Paintings (The Met) (23:52)

• Met’s Layout: Praises the immediacy and diversity of the Met vs. the Louvre's “mall”-like feeling.
• Cultural Significance: Discusses how Greek sculpture introduced motion and individuality into art.
  • Quote: “From immortality to mortality...to the shadows of our world. And it is amazing.” (25:31)

9. Van Gogh at The Met and MoMA (28:11)

• Surface as Subject: Saltz points out the democratization of every brushstroke and the move away from “hierarchical composition.”
  • Quote: “Every line, every mark, every motion is equally important to every other one.” (28:24)
• Myth Busting: Van Gogh was poor but already well-known in his lifetime.

10. Henri Rousseau’s "The Sleeping Gypsy" (MoMA) (30:19)

• Listener Connection (Tina): Associated since childhood, finds magic in Rousseau’s self-taught vision, light, and peaceful surrealism.

11. Kara Walker’s "A Subtlety" (Brooklyn, former Domino Sugar Factory) (32:08)

• Major Impact: Saltz and Stewart recall its “shock” and hypnotic power.
  • Quote: “It hit you in the face and took you by the throat and then coaxed you into like hypnosis.” (33:11)
• Contemporary Resonance: Walker’s 2017 MoMA drawing, “Christ’s Entry into Journalism,” highlighted as encapsulating “our long, beautiful, tremendous American story…chaos, sex, endurance, graphic genius…captured.” (34:15)

Notable Quotes and Moments

• Art’s Diversity: “There are as there are a hundred people, there are a hundred beauties.” — Jerry Saltz (02:22)
• On experiencing art: “Open yourself up, silenced the critics and listened to the voices in your head.” — Jerry Saltz (04:41)
• On public sculpture: “It exists in public and we experience it in private, and yet it can become the focal point of incredible tension…” — Jerry Saltz (09:30)
• Encouragement for artists: “When you’re being embarrassed and are afraid of what you’re doing, keep doing it.” — Jerry Saltz (20:54)
• The function of the Met: “At the Met, you walk in…you’re seeing art. Unlike the Louvre…” — Jerry Saltz (24:08)
• About Kara Walker’s "A Subtlety": “I always thought that that should have been placed on a huge float and driven across the United States.” — Jerry Saltz (33:08)

Useful Timestamps

• [01:39] — Saltz describes his inclusive criteria for art.
• [02:16] — Childhood epiphany with Giovanni di Paolo.
• [04:41] — Advice about how to truly experience art.
• [10:46] — On the Queens Museum's New York Panorama.
• [12:56] — Introduction and discussion of David Hammons’ "Day’s End."
• [17:13] — James Turrell’s "Meeting" described as transformative.
• [18:27] — Jasper Johns’ "American Flag" and the artist's process.
• [21:07] — Picasso’s “Les Demoiselles d’Avignon” explanation.
• [23:52] — The Met’s Kouros and Roman wall paintings.
• [28:11] — The egalitarian surface of Van Gogh.
• [32:08] — Kara Walker’s "A Subtlety" and its impact.

Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode is both celebratory and contemplative, blending Saltz’s passionate, witty insights with listeners’ heartfelt stories. It highlights the democratizing power of art, New York’s incomparable diversity, and the value of direct, personal encounters with culture. Alison Stewart’s thoughtful prompts and Jerry Saltz’s memorable, informal yet scholarship-rich commentary make this a lively, welcoming conversation for art lovers and newcomers alike.

For Further Exploration:

• Full list of Jerry Saltz’s picks will be available through WNYC/All Of It.
• Many mentioned works are accessible at NYC’s major museums (The Met, MoMA, Whitney, PS1, Queens Museum) and public spaces.