All Of It: Episode Summary – “A Complete Unknown” with James Mangold and Edward Norton

Host: Alison Stewart | Guests: Edward Norton | Release Date: December 13, 2024

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, listeners are introduced to the compelling new film "A Complete Unknown", directed by James Mangold and featuring Edward Norton in the pivotal role of Pete Seeger. The episode delves into the intricate dynamics of the early 1960s Greenwich Village cultural scene, focusing on the enigmatic rise of Bob Dylan and his interactions with influential figures like Pete Seeger and Joan Baez.

Overview of "A Complete Unknown"

"A Complete Unknown" offers a cinematic exploration of the formative years of Bob Dylan, charting his journey from an aspiring folk musician to a transformative cultural icon. Set against the vibrant backdrop of 1960s New York City, the film captures the essence of a pivotal moment in American music and social activism.

Alison Stewart provides an overview of the film's narrative, highlighting its portrayal of Dylan's interactions with Pete Seeger (played by Edward Norton), Woody Guthrie, and other key figures who influenced his artistic development. The film is noted for its authentic depiction of the era and its reflection on how these interactions shaped Dylan's music and persona.

Interview with Edward Norton

Edward Norton engages in a thoughtful conversation with Alison Stewart, offering deep insights into his portrayal of Pete Seeger and the broader themes of the film.

Portraying Pete Seeger

Norton discusses the personal connection he felt towards the role, emphasizing Seeger's multifaceted influence as an artist and activist:

"[Pete Seeger] was one of the, you know, the Olympians. He... was the paragon of the artist."
(02:35)

He reflects on Seeger's legacy as a folk musician and a staunch advocate for civil rights, environmentalism, and humanitarian causes. Norton expresses his admiration for Seeger's ability to blend artistic integrity with activism, describing him as a "Gandalf" figure in the cultural landscape.

Challenges and Rewards of the Role

Norton shares the complexities of embodying such an iconic figure:

"Sometimes you almost feel it's heretical to try to, like, represent these people, you know, because they're so iconic, so musically virtuoso."
(06:24)

He acknowledges the weight of portraying legends like Seeger and Dylan, striving to honor their legacies while bringing authenticity to his performance. Norton highlights the collaborative effort with director James Mangold to capture the nuanced relationships and cultural shifts of the time.

Significance of Pete Seeger

Norton elaborates on Pete Seeger's role as an artist and activist:

"Pete Seeger was at the absolute apogee of... artist as activist, artist as humanitarian, artist as environmentalist."
(04:15)

He underscores Seeger's contributions to societal change, including his pivotal role in the Civil Rights Movement and environmental initiatives like cleaning up the Hudson River. Norton's portrayal strives to reflect Seeger's unwavering commitment to using music as a tool for activism.

Insights into Bob Dylan's Evolution

The discussion transitions to Bob Dylan's transformation during his early years in New York:

"Dylan kind of came from nowhere because he was restless and he wanted to get somewhere and he got there and he did things and then he got restless again..."
(13:44)

Norton emphasizes Dylan's restless creativity and his departure from traditional folk music to embrace electric sounds, marking a significant turning point in his career and the broader music scene.

Historical Context: 1960s Greenwich Village

The episode provides a vivid portrayal of Greenwich Village during the early 1960s, a hub for artistic and political ferment. Norton reminisces about the area's vibrant anti-commercialism ethos:

"Nobody said, how many records have you sold? They said, have you got anything to say?"
(15:54)

He contrasts this with contemporary trends, expressing concern over the commercialization of art and the loss of authenticity within the artistic community. The film captures the essence of a time when art and politics were deeply intertwined, fostering a community driven by genuine expression and progressive ideals.

Personal Anecdotes from Edward Norton

Norton shares a personal connection to Greenwich Village, recounting his experiences and realizations while shooting the film:

"...when I was in my early 20s, I used to sit in the evening by the fireplace in what had been Pete Seeger's bedroom, which is amazing and it's still there."
(15:54-19:15)

He describes stumbling upon Pete Seeger's former residence, now a local restaurant, revealing the lasting imprint of these cultural icons on the neighborhood. This discovery deepens Norton’s appreciation for the legacy of the characters he portrays and the enduring spirit of Greenwich Village.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Norton's reflections highlight the enduring relevance of the film's themes:

"...if a young, if, if more people return to connection with it because the film, you know, evokes the romance of that time, I think we'll feel really happy."
(19:31)

He expresses hope that "A Complete Unknown" serves as a bridge connecting contemporary audiences with the rich cultural and political heritage of the 1960s. Norton underscores the film's role in rekindling interest in influential artists and the transformative power of their work.

Alison Stewart concludes the conversation by inviting listeners to engage further with the film and its exploration of a transformative era in American culture.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Edward Norton on Pete Seeger’s Influence:
  "Pete Seeger was at the absolute apogee of... artist as activist, artist as humanitarian, artist as environmentalist."
  (04:15)

• Norton on the Challenge of Portraying Icons:
  "Sometimes you almost feel it's heretical to try to, like, represent these people, you know, because they're so iconic, so musically virtuoso."
  (06:24)

• Reflection on Greenwich Village’s Ethos:
  "Nobody said, how many records have you sold? They said, have you got anything to say?"
  (15:54)

• On the Film’s Contemporary Relevance:
  "...if more people return to connection with it because the film... evokes the romance of that time, I think we'll feel really happy."
  (19:31)

Closing Thoughts

This episode of All Of It masterfully intertwines the exploration of a seminal film with personal insights from Edward Norton, offering listeners a rich tapestry of cultural history, artistic introspection, and the enduring legacy of influential musicians. Through engaging dialogue and poignant reflections, Alison Stewart and Edward Norton illuminate the profound impact of the 1960s Greenwich Village scene on modern culture and the timeless nature of authentic artistic expression.