Tracy Wakefield (2:47)

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think when we first started when Lang Fisher, who co created it with us and Tina, when We first started talking about the show. Part of what Tina loved so much about the movie was it was these icons of comedy that you, you know, we're so excited to see together. And, oh, they're playing like they're married and they're. They're all best friends. And, you know, so I. You know, we knew kind of from the beginning, like, oh, this probably. And we knew Tina would be in it, so that would be a big draw. But we knew this kind of wouldn't work if it was just Tina and some, you know, some guys and gals from pilots. Like, it needed to be people that you were so excited to see, and not even necessarily the most famous people, but people that are really funny and really beloved. And, you know, so we went out to Steve Carell first, and he read the script and he signed on. And then once it was like Tina and Steve, it felt like more than any other show I've ever done, certainly. It felt like, oh, the doors are wide open. We can get anyone we want. And, you know, and so we reached out to Coleman, and then he was gonna do it. And Will, Tina knew from snl, obviously, had a long history, and I knew him from 30 Rock. And then Carrie was someone I have since I was young watching the State. I'm sure you love this Carrie when people are always like, I watched you as a young child when you were an adult on the State.

Ira Flato (4:20)

My grandmother used to watch your show, but I did.

Tracy Wakefield (4:24)

The State was one of the things was so formative for me, and I loved watching and, you know, and Carrie is exactly like, the perfect blend of a super funny, precise actor, but also such a good dramatic actor. And I hadn't. Until she auditioned, I hadn't. I was like, oh, whoa. And she can do that too.

Alison Stewart (4:47)

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Wakefield (4:48)

It was a dreamcast, obviously.

Alison Stewart (4:50)

I remember you from the State from mtv. When did the script first come your way, Carrie?

Ira Flato (4:57)

Sherry Thomas reached out to my agent to audition, and Sherry Thomas is a legend in her own right. So just to get to read for her, because the sort of. It's not just, you know, wacky sketch comedy that she does. She does some pretty beautiful, deep projects. So that was exciting. And then to find out that it was, you know, Tina Fey and this entire project, it just seemed too good to be true. To even get to audition for it, to be honest with you.

Alison Stewart (5:28)

All right, let's talk about Ann. Ann has so much going on, but when we first meet Anne, we think she's got, like, this great relationship with her husband. Spoiler. They don't have the greatest relationship. What is going on when we first meet her?

Ira Flato (5:42)

Well, when we first meet her, I mean, I feel like she feels like her bed is made and they've raised their daughter successfully. She's left the nest, and this is what it's gonna look like from here on out. And doesn't do too much deep diving into what's good and what's bad. Just kind of this is it. And, you know, I'm going to choose to be happy here and overlook the negative and feels, I think, safe and comfortable until she kind of realizes she needs to solidify that in some way with this vow renewal because she feels like it's starting to. To come unglued.

Alison Stewart (6:30)

Tracy, where do you consider Ann in the beginning of this series?

Tracy Wakefield (6:36)

Yeah, I mean, I think she is someone. Well, I think she's someone who. Carrie had said it exactly correct. Someone who is pretty set. And I think that's a thematic thing in our show is like, the way people think about middle age and even people who are middle aged think about middle age is it's kind of this time in your life where you're like, okay, I'm done. Like, I made the choices, and you probably, like, you're in the career you're going to die in. You're probably in the house you're going to die in, and you raised your kids and you, you know, and it's like, I think it's very easy, even if you are in your, you know, in your 40s and 50s, to be like, okay, and that's set and I don't have to worry anymore. But I think what our show is about is it's actually secretly this time of incredible transition, you know, much like. Much like when you're a teenager and it's not just like menopause and hormonal stuff. It's like people, I think, are transitioning from one part of their life to the next chapter. And that next chapter just isn't as laid out as it is when you are 25, 30. It's not just like, oh, and I'll get married and have kids. It's like it could be anything. And I think that choice sometimes makes people go crazy. But, you know, Ann, I think, is a woman who is still kind of assuming things are going to be the same for the next couple decades of my life.

Alison Stewart (8:01)

I do want to play this clip from the four seasons because it really kind of gets to where Anne is. Everybody's on the boat. They've all gone out on a boat. They've all jumped overboard. Anne has managed to go overboard, and everybody's gotten back on the boat except for Ann. Let's take a listen to the Four Seasons.

Ira Flato (8:23)

Oh, how'd you do that?

Alison Stewart (8:26)

Just put your foot on that bottom rod.

Ira Flato (8:28)

Can't reach it. Just lift it a little higher.

Alison Stewart (8:31)

Let the water buoy you up, hon.

Ira Flato (8:34)

I can't.

Alison Stewart (8:36)

Yes.

Tracy Wakefield (8:37)

Yes, you can.

Ira Flato (8:38)

Just try harder. Just throw me the life preserver and drag me ashore.

Alison Stewart (8:42)

I know you can do it.

Ira Flato (8:43)

I can't do it.

Tracy Wakefield (8:44)

Please, just try.

Ira Flato (8:46)

I don't want to try.

Alison Stewart (8:50)

Ann. Is Ann a little bit depressed? Carrie?

Ira Flato (8:55)

Gosh, that's a great question. I think Ann vacillates between comfort and depression. And maybe the. Maybe she's sinking into the idea that this is safety and comfort, but it probably has a tinge of depression to it. I don't think she likes to be challenged, and she likes for people to just see her where she is at and accept that and say, that's enough. And even though she knows she's really not giving back, probably what she should be giving back. Oh, it's so layered.

Alison Stewart (9:36)

Real question. Was it hard to get back on the boat?

Ira Flato (9:40)

Yeah, we were. I was wearing over wet overalls, and then Steve and I were. Were floating on pool noodles when we were doing the little kissing part of it. And so it was very difficult, sort of bobbing around and trying to keep the pool noodles from floating up.

Alison Stewart (9:58)

My guests are Tracy Wakefield and Carrie Kenny Silver. We're talking about the Four Seasons. It appears now on Netflix. So the seasons are a device. It's a way to get the script to move through time, to advance time. Tracy, did you shoot in real time?

Tracy Wakefield (10:17)

We shot. No, we didn't shoot, like, summer for summer. And we shot in the Hudson Valley in. It was like September through December, and then we went to Puerto Rico for summer. I think it would be. That was one of the challenges of doing this is that I think it would be expensive and impossible. Like, you couldn't keep the crew. It would be too hard to shoot in real time. So it's really like. And a lot of it, bill seller, line producer falls to him, where it's kind of like, okay, if we're shooting, we can get probably one season that's real, and then the other ones are gonna be, you know, we're running into this now in season two. It's like, you're either gonna be in bathing suits in October, be like, ah, it's so hot, or you're going to be on skis. In November, being surrounded by grass. And then, you know, and then we used a combination of VFX and, you know, kind of just like stagecraft and acting to fake the rest.

Alison Stewart (11:15)

Carrie, through Anne's storyline, Anne and Frank's storyline, it's kind of how everything is sort of based around it. Did it matter to you as a performer whether to think about the bigger context of the series, or was it better for you to keep focus on your own character and what she was going through through season to season to season?

Ira Flato (11:36)

Well, definitely have to stay focused on what she's going through and even to get even more sort of honed in on it, really keeping the. What, you know, the overall story out of my head as an actor, because I really wanted the audience to take that journey with. I wanted everyone to be broadsided. I wanted it to feel like a car crash. And so I did not want to show any anticipation in any way. I feel like in the wedding, the getting ready for the wedding scene with Kate, she does know that there are risks, but I believe in her heart of hearts, she believes that this is gonna seal the deal for. For the rest of their lives. I really don't think she has doubt about that, maybe for a second, just because Kate brought it up at all. But I really wanted it to feel like everyone was blindsided.

Alison Stewart (12:39)

Tracy, One of the differences from the 1981 original is that there's a gay couple. Colman Domingo and Marco Calvani. I think that's how you say his last name. Why was it important to update the source material?

Tracy Wakefield (12:53)

Well, it just felt like a fun opportunity to make the friend group look a little more like our friend groups, you know, And I think if, you know, Lang and Tina and I, if we're looking at, like, who we go on trips with and have dinner with, it's just a little more diverse than the original movie was. And I also, you know, with all the couples just taking something that's a movie and then expanding it to eight episodes of television, you just get more of a Runway to tell real stories with the other couples. And so it seemed like such a fun opportunity to kind of tell a story about a different kind of couple who is also affected by the divorce in their friend group.

Alison Stewart (13:40)

Carrie. I'm so interested in Anne because she goes through such. Such dramatic arc in this series through these eight episodes. And I'm curious. I don't know if this is sort of answering the question, but, like, what did you learn about how someone can mean so much to you at one period of Time. And six months later, you can just hate them. You know, you can just not want to be around them. You not want to be a part of their lives anymore.

Ira Flato (14:08)

Well, I think even just hearing you tell it back, it's terrifying. You know, I don't love surprises. Carrie does not love surprises. Carrie does not even like surprise parties. So the idea that your whole world could shift like that is terrifying. And I think, you know, I got very lucky to be able to be the one to play that arc in this show. And then, you know, everybody else is caught up in the whitewash of what does that mean for their own lives and for their own relationships and this their perception of, you know, all of a sudden a giant mirror is put in front of each of their relationships. Yeah, it's terrifying. I mean, aging is scary. And, you know, we. I think in your 20s, it's frightening sort of who, you know, the musical chairs of who are we pairing up with. But at this age, I feel like you feel pretty comfortable and leave it to Tracy, Tina and Lang to just really upend things. Although I ultimately blame Alan Alda.

Alison Stewart (15:18)

Tracy, what did you learn about the way that relationships can shift over time? Just looking at the whole series?

Tracy Wakefield (15:28)

Yeah, I mean, our writers room was a lot of people we had worked with before, like writers from 30 Rock and people we had known for a really long time. And also mostly people at this point in their lives. Like, everyone one is in a long term relationship, but like, basically everyone is. These characters ages and is married and has children. And so, you know, we talked so much about, like, it was the first time I've ever been in a room where we, you know, we really, like. You spent so much time talking about, like, well, when I got divorced, this is what it was like or whatever. And, you know, I guess what I learned, it's like so many things are so different in the minutia of from relationship to relationship where, you know, the sort of like tiny things that become giant deals are different. But like, so much is incredibly the same about all marriages. And, you know, and it's like it was so. It was like heartening also, like a little depressing that it's just like, oh, everyone, everyone is every K just married a Jack. And they all fight about the same. At a certain level, they all fight about the same thing and they all just want to be heard and told, I appreciate you and you're a person. And it's just like everyone is just trying to do the same, the very same thing. But, you know, it's so hard still, like people miss each other in these small ways, but it's very universal, I guess, is what I learned.

Alison Stewart (17:03)

We're talking about the Netflix series the Four Seasons with one of its co creators, Tracy Wigfield and actor Carrie Kenny Silver, who play and a woman who's trying to find her footing again after being blindsided by her husband's request for a divorce. Carrie, I wanted to ask you about your early days with the State at mtv. What is something from that time in your comedy career, your early comedy career that is still useful to you today?

Ira Flato (17:30)

Well, it's interesting because we actually just had a at the Tribeca Film Festival, there's a documentary about the State that just premiered this week. And you know those. I've been working with some of them since I'm 16 and the rest of them since I'm 18 years old and you know, talk about Chosen Family in the way that the Four Seasons is as well. So it's been really interesting this particular year to sort of in real life and on television, to be living this world of Chosen Family and longtime friendships and all those things, you know, it's taught me, I think, to really grab onto the people around you on set and off set and talk about it takes a village, you know, you definitely. I did not come from the world of sketch comedy for so many decades feeling like I was an island and that I deserved the center of attention in any way or that I was the answer to any scene or punchline. It really is about as collaborative as you can get. And I think that helped walking into this to feel like I just want to fill in wherever I can to buoy this up and not sort of step in and say, and now it's my turn to talk.

Alison Stewart (18:54)

That's kind of interesting, Tracy, because the characters in this series, they have pre existing relationships with each other kind of the way the people in the state did 40 years. They've known each other this long. When you were writing the series and you were thinking about this series, how did you think about those pre existing relationships? Because we're only coming in, we only meet them at this time in their life.

Tracy Wakefield (19:20)

Right, Right. And I think that's hard to get right. Like I think I've written on things and seen things that are about like they've been friends for forever and you know, if it feels false and the characters don't have the chemistry of it, the whole thing doesn't work. And I think so much of it is the performers, honestly, like, I think you guys are such talented Actors and you. And some of you have pre existing relationships, some of you don't. But I do feel like Carrie, like even like you and Tina just seem so similar to me. And I don't, I don't know you that well, but I feel like I've known you forever because you are this, you are of this tribe, this kind of person. So, you know, I think it certainly was helped that I've known Tina and Lang for, you know, almost 20 years now. And so we're writing like friends and when we are breaking story, it's like, okay, if my husband told this to Lang, what would we do? Or whatever. So that I think helps. But it's really like the nuance in the performance and it's like you just, when you watch all of you together, it feels like there's an energy and a chemistry there that like it's not just the writing, it's that too.

Alison Stewart (20:40)

Carrie, did you have a relationship with any of your co actors before?

Ira Flato (20:44)

I had never met anyone before the first day of filming and I felt similarly. But you know, I have walked up to famous people before on the street and felt like I know them and then I have an interaction and realize they have no interest in me whatsoever and why should they? So I was a little concerned going in that. Well, I feel like Tina would be my friend and then I would meet her and she would say, you know, no, thank you. But it really did fall into place in a dreamlike way, you know. Oh, hi, nice to meet you. I'm gonna be playing your best friend of 30, 40 years and oh, hi. I'm gonna be playing your wife of 30 years. And action. And just the personalities that these guys cast, the, the wonderful humans that they brought on, both cast and crew really made it possible, comfortable, safe.

Alison Stewart (21:42)

It's been renewed for a second season. Tracy, are you shooting now?

Tracy Wakefield (21:48)

We're not shooting, we're writing. We're in the fifth week of the Room right now. So we'll write for a little less than 20 weeks and then we'll start shooting in September. So we, yeah, we're like in it. We're, we're as, as we're doing this interview and Carrie says there's something Carrie said. I was like, oh, that'll be good.

Alison Stewart (22:10)

I was about to say, carrie, now's your time. What do you want to see explored with Anne?

Tracy Wakefield (22:15)

Times of nudity.

Ira Flato (22:16)

People have, well, for obviously nudity. I mean, that's just what the people are asking for. No people have asked me in interviews lately or my husband said, well, what do you hope is going to happen? And I could, and this is not just blowing smoke. I could never have up with the beautiful direction that, that this character took, that the show took. Every script that came in last season was a, a surprise to unwrap. And I would not even dare to put my, you know, idea on it. And I have said before, too, if we end up in Dayton, Ohio, you know, there's a tornado coming and we can't go on any trips and we're in a basement in Dayton, Ohio for, for all the seasons, then I'm sure it will be wonderful. But I guessing that's not gonna happen.

Alison Stewart (23:03)

I just want a good romance for you. That's my two cents. Sure. My guests have been Tracy Wakefield and Carrie Kenny Silver. They are from the four Seasons. Thank you so much for joining us.

Tracy Wakefield (23:15)

This was fun. Thank you.

Ira Flato (23:16)

Thank you for having us.

Alison Stewart (23:18)

I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.