A Fall Theater Bonanza

Summary

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All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: A Fall Theater Bonanza
Date: September 6, 2024
Guest: Helen Shaw, Theater Critic for The New Yorker

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Episode Overview

This lively episode dives into New York City's highly anticipated Fall 2024 theater season with critic Helen Shaw, who previews the new shows, big stars, and shifting industry currents. Host Alison Stewart and Helen Shaw explore the mix of Broadway and Off-Broadway, newly imagined classics, and emerging trends—including the challenges theaters face post-pandemic. The conversation spotlights both buzzy revivals and adventurous new works, while also addressing the economics and etiquette of New York’s ever-evolving theater scene.

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Key Themes and Discussion Points

The Pulse of Fall 2024—Three Adjectives

02:44

• Helen Shaw pegs the season as “starry, nostalgic, and troubled,” setting up a discussion about big names, the lure of the past, and the uncertain state of theater organizations.

An Abundance of Openings and Reliance on Playwrights

03:02–04:04

• 16 Broadway openings between now and end of year, notable for a strong slate of plays as well as musicals.
• Helen notes a "new optimism" and sees a focus on playwright-driven productions, with many acclaimed writers (e.g., Leslie Hedlund’s Cult of Love, David Henry Hwang’s Yellowface) returning from Hollywood or the Off-Broadway world.

The Health (and Struggles) of New York Theater

04:18–05:13

• Despite a vibrant slate, Helen acknowledges ongoing struggles, especially for non-profit theaters:
  • Non-profits foster new works—every Tony-winning play in the past two decades originated at one.
  • Mergers (e.g., Second Stage and Signature, Soho Rep and Playwrights Horizons) are signs of economic trouble, even as they create "heat and light."

Notable Quote:

“Without our nonprofits, we don't have an American theater.” – Helen Shaw (04:24)

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New Productions and Notable Names

Left on Tenth and the State of Romantic Comedy

05:13–06:56

• New romantic comedy starring Julianna Margulies and Peter Gallagher, based on Delia Ephron's memoir; Helen expresses optimism about playwright and stars.
• Helen discusses what Margulies brings:

  “The secret, as I learned last night watching Carrie Young melt in and out of love, is letting command go and letting vulnerability show.” – Helen Shaw (06:23)

The Hills of California (Jez Butterworth)

06:56–08:16

• A family drama, thematically centered on nostalgia and intricate storytelling, starring Laura Donnelly.

  “She might be the most magnetic person I've seen on stage this year. She is a lodestone.” – Helen Shaw (07:37)

Musicals and Unusual Revivals

• Sunset Boulevard: Lavishly reimagined, “blood drenched” staging arrives after success in London.

  “It looks like Carrie, basically. It’s pretty blood drenched, apparently.” – Helen Shaw (08:56)

• Notable Stars: Adam Driver (currently at Lortel in a Kenneth Lonergan play), Robert Downey Jr. (McNeil), much of the Succession cast.

  "This is a person who really loves—he loves text...really willing to go there. Go there. Go there. In a robe. In a shorty robe, in that particular case." – Helen Shaw on Adam Driver (10:41)

Ticket Prices, Access, and Celebrity Casting

11:35–12:15

• High ticket prices are a concern, especially for major stars; Helen offers practical tips for finding cheaper tickets:

  “There are ways...You have to follow a show on Instagram, go to bwayrush.com...it requires a kind of an insider take.” – Helen Shaw (20:05)

• Observes that London’s more reasonably-priced theaters draw significantly younger audiences.

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Major Revivals & Culture Highlights

Our Town—Why It Endures

12:15–14:32

• Kenny Leon directs a new Broadway revival, with cast including Katie Holmes and Jim Parsons.
• Helen, who teaches Our Town, champions its profundity and how it confronts mortality with simplicity:

  “It asks us to look at the most simple fact of life, which is that it ends. It's a beautiful piece, and it's done so without pretension.” – Helen Shaw (13:10)

Yellowface (David Henry Hwang)

14:32–15:32

• Anticipated transfer to Broadway, with Daniel Dae Kim starring.
• Helen praises both Hwang’s comic touch and Kim’s comedic skill:

  “For me, it is the fact that we're going to be looking at two masters of timing, kind of linking up and making mischief.” – Helen Shaw (15:21)

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Spotlight on Off-Broadway

Gatz at The Public

16:17–17:36

• An epic, entire-book reading of The Great Gatsby with mischievous origins, now possible due to public domain status.

  “Scott Shepard is basically like an office drone. Talk about going to work. And he sits there and he reads the entire book to you while it sort of coalesces around him.” – Helen Shaw (16:55)

Bad Creole by Dominique Morisseau

17:43–18:46

• Last of Morisseau’s run at Signature; Helen lauds the Signature’s commitment to deep engagement with a single playwright’s voice.

The Star Question: Robert Downey Jr. in McNeil

18:46–19:31

• Helen’s honest take on movie stars returning after long absence: “Might it be a car crash? It might be, but you know, a car crash worth seeing.” (19:16)

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Industry Realities & Cultural Shifts

Economic Pressures

19:31–21:10

• High production costs and big stars drive ticket prices up.
• Helen provides advice for theater lovers on budget: rush tickets, box office discounts, avoiding surcharges.

Russian Expat Directors

21:10–21:57

• Acknowledgment of the influx of Russian theater artists fleeing repression in Putin’s Russia, and their influence on NYC’s small theater scene.

International and Experimental Theater Picks

22:00–22:59

• Helen delights in the avant-garde and “weird”—shouting out NYU's Skirball, BAM, Japan Society, and a festival staging a one-person Showgirls cabaret:

  “Nothing says theater like that.” – Helen Shaw (22:57)

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Theater Etiquette Post-Pandemic

22:59–24:29

• Audiences seem less sure about theater behavior post-pandemic, with increased participation or disruptions.
• Helen describes recent trends:

  “There was sort of violation of the fourth wall, but we didn't ever actually have to participate. And yet what it had done was created this real kind of porous relationship. People were yelling at the stage.” – Helen Shaw on Six Characters at Lincoln Center (23:39)

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Memorable Quotes

• “Without our nonprofits, we don't have an American theater.” – Helen Shaw (04:24)
• “She might be the most magnetic person I've seen on stage this year. She is a lodestone.” – Helen Shaw, on Laura Donnelly (07:37)
• “There is, you know, I mean, you go to work all day and you're okay with that. Just go to the theater all day. It's just as peaceful.” – Helen Shaw, on the length of Gatz (16:25)
• “There’s something that happens to you in your 40s when you realize that culture is just pandering to you, and it feels great.” – Helen Shaw, on Death Becomes Her (12:03)
• “Nothing says theater like that.” – Helen Shaw, on a Showgirls cabaret (22:57)
• “A car crash worth seeing.” – Helen Shaw, on potential chaos of big star casting (19:16)

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Notable Timestamps

• 02:44 – “Starry, nostalgic and troubled” descriptor
• 03:02–04:04 – Broadway optimism, focus on playwrights
• 04:18–05:13 – Nonprofits’ struggle and importance
• 06:20–06:56 – Margulies’ comedy challenge
• 07:09–07:37 – The Hills of California highlights
• 08:56 – Spectacle of Sunset Boulevard
• 10:41 – Adam Driver's return to stage
• 13:10 – Enduring power of Our Town
• 15:21 – Anticipation for Yellowface
• 16:25–16:55 – Endurance and concept of Gatz
• 19:16 – Robert Downey Jr. in McNeil
• 20:05 – Helen’s tips for budget theatergoing
• 22:57 – “Nothing says theater like that”—avant-garde cabaret
• 23:39 – Audience behavior and fourth wall

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Final Thoughts

With broad expertise and spirited conversation, Alison Stewart and Helen Shaw offer a detailed, opinionated, and hopeful look at a dynamic yet challenging season for New York theater—a fall marked by star-driven productions, the resilience of nonprofit theaters, rising costs, inventive Off-Broadway gems, and evolving audience engagement. It's an episode packed with recommendations, insider advice, cultural insights, and a celebration of the rich complexity of NYC’s performing arts.

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Transcript

[WNYC Announcer]

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[Helen Shaw]

This.

[Alison Stewart]

Is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thank you for sharing your day with me. Just a reminder, Come celebrate WNYC Centennial with us this coming Monday, September 9th, at Summer Stage in Central Park. It's a free evening of comedy, trivia, stories, live music, plus your favorite WNYC host, Brian Lair, Brooke Gladstone, John Schaefer and me. You can find details at wnyc.slash100. That's at 7pm on midnight. Nope, sorry, 7pm on Monday. Now let's get this hour started with theater. There are so many things to look forward to about the fall. Searingly hot days are becoming gloriously temperate. If you like pumpkin spice, it is your time to shine here at Team Olivet. One of our favorite things about the season is the new theater season. From revivals like Gypsy and Our Town to new productions like the Hills of California and Yellowface, there's a lot to look forward to and a lot of big Hollywood names will be coming to the big stage. People like Robert Downley Jr. Juliana Margulies and Adam Driver, not to mention practically the entire cast of succession. Plus beloved Broadway stars like Audra McDonald and Patti LuPone are back. Helen Shaw is the theater critic for the New Yorker, and she's here now to preview some of the shows that she is excited about.

[Helen Shaw]

Hi Helen Hi there.

[Alison Stewart]

Hey listeners. We want to get you in on this conversation. What are you excited to see this fall? Call or text us 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can also reach out to us on social media. Llnyc I gave you this question beforehand because I wanted you time to have time to think about it. What are some of the adjectives describe the theater season? The fall of 2024?

[Helen Shaw]

So I would say starry, nostalgic and troubled.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh good. I'm so excited to get into those three things. First of all, the 16 I read there were 16 Broadway openings between now and the end of the year. Is this a lot?

[Helen Shaw]

Yeah, it is. And it's exciting because so many of them are plays as well as musicals and that is, as you know, not always the norm for Broadway. And I don't know, that feels like a kind of a new optimism about what can succeed there.

[Alison Stewart]

What stands out to you about the offerings?

[Helen Shaw]

So there is a real reliance on great writing. There are people who have had major Off Broadway careers who have gone off to Hollywood and come back. So Leslie Hedlund is coming with a show to Broadway, which is exciting. Cult of Love. We also have great playwrights who are, you know, our Pulitzer winners and our Obie winners, like David Henry Wong, who as you mentioned, has Yellowface coming to Broadway, which is a much awaited production, very beautiful at the public. This might be almost 20 years ago, 2007, whenever that was. And now it is coming to Broadway with an astounding cast. So it's definitely kind of, I think, the fall of the playwright.

[Caller/Listener]

Earlier this year, the New York Times wrote an article about how even four years after the pandemic, ticket sales are down, attendance was still down compared to the pre pandemic, and some small theaters were struggling. What are you hearing?

[Helen Shaw]

Well, it is pretty rough from a standpoint of particularly nonprofit theaters. And if you look at the history of, for instance, Tony Awards for best play, every single Tony Award for best play over the last 20 years has gone to a show that started at a non profit theater. And so without our nonprofits, we don't have an American theater. And so the fact that they are struggling is really troubling. We know they're struggling because some of them are moving in together. Second Stage is going to be moving in at the Signature Theater. We know that soho Rep is moving from downtown up to have a sort of roommate situation at Playwrights Horizons. And so while on the one hand I'm really excited about the kind of heat and light that that condensation of all of our activity is going to create, it also does signal us that there's trouble in paradise.

[Caller/Listener]

Well, let's talk about some new Productions left on 10th. It begins on September 26th at James Earl Jones Theater. It's a romantic comedy based on Delia Ephron's memoir. It's directed by Susan Stroman and stars Juliana Margulies and Peter Gallagher. I think of Peter Gallagher as a song and dance guy.

[Helen Shaw]

Yes, yes.

[Caller/Listener]

How is he going to do in a. How is he going to do in a straight up play?

[Helen Shaw]

Well, I think if we can trust anyone to create romantic energy on stage, it's going to be one of the Ephron sisters. And so I am sort of guardedly optimistic. I Also happen to be to have just seen a romantic comedy on stage last night called table 17 at MCC.

[Caller/Listener]

That's so funny, blew me away. It is so funny, blew me away.

[Helen Shaw]

And I was sitting there in the middle of it and I wrote in my dutiful little notebook, more romantic comedy. So I think, you know, if the rising tide lifts all boats, that's going to apply.

[Alison Stewart]

What about Margulies? I mean, we've seen her on the Morning show playing a queer character and she, of course, on the Good Wife. What does she have to do to help us believe her in a comedy?

[Helen Shaw]

Well, I will say that when I think of Margulies, I think of her as somebody who has an air of command. And I think of that as being something I've associated with her all throughout her career. Right. Carole Hathaway, heir of command. And that the secret, as I learned last night watching Carrie Young melt in and out of love, is letting command go and letting vulnerability show. And so what, what she will do if she succeeds is she'll show us the sort of squishy heart behind all of that astonishing ice that's left on 10th.

[Alison Stewart]

We're talking about the hills of California. It's about to begin previews at the Broadhurst Theatre. It's about sisters who return to their childhood home on the English coast where their mother is dying. Now, you saw this in London?

[Helen Shaw]

Yes, I saw it in London, yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

What were your thoughts?

[Helen Shaw]

Well, it is in. It's very different. So for people who are going expecting Jez Butterworth's last play, which was the Irish tragedy the Ferryman, this is quite different. This again, this is one of the reasons why nostalgia is very much on my mind, because you see scenes both in the girls youth and then them as, you know, spoiler alert, disappointed adults and so kind of toggling back and forth in time. And it is intricate. It is really, truly intricate. And so for me, one of its great pleasures was the craft that Butterworth has as a playwright. Again, I really think this is the fall of the playwright, but also he's writing for Laura Donnelly again, who was the star of the Ferryman. And she might be the most magnetic person I've seen on stage this year. She is a lodestone. So it's families behaving badly, you know, which is also a real staple of the stage. And so I'm excited to see what it's like with these American audiences.

[Alison Stewart]

We are talking with Helen Shaw, New Yorker's theater critic. We're talking about the new season of theater that is hitting New York. Let's hear some texts. I'm looking forward to Adrienne Wilson and Nick Jonas in the revival of the last five years. Adrienne Wilson, she played Tina Turner.

[Helen Shaw]

Yes, she did. She did. I mean, also, good competitor for Most Magnetic. But that's next year. We have to hang on. We have to bank our hearts for that one.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, let's hang on to that one. I'm so excited for the revival of Sunset Boulevard. The production stole seven Olivier Awards in London. It's the Andrew Lloyd Webber classic, but in a whole new reimagination. What does your guest have to share?

[Helen Shaw]

So I have not seen it. I have seen images from it which make it look like Carrie, basically. It's pretty blood drenched, apparently. And I'm. I, you know, I am a little, again, guarded. My heart is fenced for this one. I've seen productions by this director who is a real kind of master of the Guignol that have been astonishing. Like, he did a Cyrano with James McAvoy that was off Broadway a couple of years ago or a year ago. Anyway, the past is the past, which was amazing. And so this could also be one of those. Or it might be sensation. For sensation's sake. I will say Andrew Lloyd Webber having bizarre new takes on his productions as kind of the guy of the moment. Since the summer's best show was Cats, the Jellicle Ball at pacnyc.

[Caller/Listener]

Let's see. I'm excited to see Adam Driver at the Lortel Theater next month. I've seen him in Angels in America and Burn this, and he always delivers. That's Cindy from the Village. Well, this brings me to my list of big stars. You know, Adam Driver's gonna be at the Lortelle, which is small, in a Kenneth Lonergan play. He's a star as well. Robert Downey Jr. Is headlining a play called MCN. Seems like everybody in the cast of Succession is in a show. First of all, what do you make of big names? Let's start there. Big names on theater.

[Helen Shaw]

So I am, you know, I can be a little crotchety when someone parachutes in and they haven't done any theater. You know, they went away and then they never came back. That is not the case for Adam Driver.

[Caller/Listener]

He's really good on stage.

[Helen Shaw]

Deeply, deeply dedicated. I saw him in an Ostrovsky play at Classic Stage. I mean, this is a person who really loves. He loves text. And he may in Burn this, he was absurd. He's also really willing to go, you know, go There. Go there. Go there. In a robe. In a shorty robe, in that particular case. So I think the chance to see all of that intensity up close at the Lortel is pretty major and is pretty exciting and is part of a trend of, you know, really huge people coming to Off Broadway. And Coal Escola, of course, started O Mary in that same theater. And so, you know, does it make me a little sad that the Lortel used to be a place of more. Less commercial projects? Yes. But on the other hand, the commercial projects that are going there just happened to be superb.

[Alison Stewart]

So I'm excited about all the new shows coming this fall, but I don't know how many I'll get to see. Prizes are so expensive. I splurged on a ticket to McNeil with Robert Downey Jr. I'm dying to see Audra in Gypsy. She just gets one name, Audra, as well as Death becomes her. Have you heard anything about Death becomes her?

[Helen Shaw]

I haven't heard anything about it. I'm so excited. I will say that I have looked at the poster art with just deep sort of 90s kid bliss. So it does feel. There's something that happens to you in your 40s when you realize that culture is just pandering to you, and it feels great if you're not in your 40s. I'm sorry. Cause this is our time.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, let's talk about some of the revivals. Our Town, the ultimate comfort theater food. It's, you know, it's a return to Broadway directed by Kenny Leon. He was here talking about Home, and he was very excited about his cast, first of all. But why does Our Town survive so?

[Helen Shaw]

Our Town. So this is me being a bit of an. Of a nerd, I guess, is I teach Our Town every year. I teach a modern US Drama class, and so I read it every year. And for me, it is a. That's a ritual that is. I think we get this sense of it as being an easy play because we did it in high school or we saw it in high school, and we think it must be easy. It must just be like, I don't know, Camelot. But it's not. It's actually very, very profound. And it asks us to look at the most simple fact of life, which is that it ends. It's a beautiful piece, and it's done so without pretension. And I think that Kenny Leon's production of Home is actually what made me so excited about this coming production of Our Town. Because Home, if you saw it, was done with almost no set with. It was extremely stripped down. And you saw this as Leon just with actors and the lip of a stage and what he can do. And it was really beautiful.

[Caller/Listener]

Is there anybody in the cast that you find particularly interesting? You've got Katie Holmes. You've got Jim Parsons in narrator.

[Helen Shaw]

I would say those people are in it. And that is okay with me, I will say, but I'm more excited about. Let's see. So Billy Eugene Jones, who was the breakout for me in Fat Ham, is in it. I mean, what a comic talent. Who else? And Ephraim Sykes, who was David Ruffin in oh, no, there were Ain't too proud. Ain't too proud. I often say ain't too proud and ain't no mo at the like same time. They both come out of my mouth. But Evram Sykes is going to be George. And if anyone can play like romantic, yearning heartbreak, it's gonna be him.

[Caller/Listener]

You mentioned Yellowface, which starts previews at the Todd Haymes theater on the 13th, was written by Henry Wang of M. Butterfly. David Henry Wang. And it' based on his own criticism of casting of Jonathan Price in the original production of Miss Saigon. It's gonna star Daniel Dae Kim. I believe there'll be guests in a couple of weeks. What is exciting about this?

[Helen Shaw]

Well, one part of it is that it is a good play and I had seen it off Broadway and loved it. So it all really at the bottom comes down to the fact that he has a comic touch, a really light comic touch. And Daniel Dae Kim, who was one of the people who came in as in the King and I after Ken Watanabe left, is also, it turns out, spectacular comedy on stage. Really. And so for me, it is the fact that we're going to be looking at two masters of timing, kind of linking up and making mischief.

[Alison Stewart]

You've just made me very excited about seeing that. My guest is Helen Shaw. She's New Yorker's theater critic. If you want to tell us what you are interested in seeing this fall, our phone lines are open. 212-433-969-2212. You can call us or you can text us on that number. After a quick break, we're headed off Broadway. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Helen Shaw, New Yorker theater critic. We are talking about the fall theater season. Okay. We're gonna head off Broadway and you are want us to know about Gatz. Am I pronouncing that correctly?

[Helen Shaw]

You are okay.

[Alison Stewart]

It's starting for a one month run at the Public Theater starting November 1st. What? And I understand it's long.

[Helen Shaw]

Well, sure, but how long is too long? There is, you know, I mean, you go to work all day and you're okay with that. Just go to the theater all day. It's just as peaceful. So you may have noticed that there are Great Gatsby adaptations coming out of our ears. There is one on Broadway now. There was one at the Art in Cambridge recently. And that, of course, is because copyright has lapsed. I mean, if we want to really face.

[Alison Stewart]

We like the public domain around here.

[Helen Shaw]

Yeah, we love the public domain. Gat's is a much more mischievous project because it started when it wasn't in the public domain. I mean, they got shut down a couple of times, and you have to respect that. The second thing I love about it is it's the entirety of the book. And so Scott Shepard is basically like an office drone. Talk about going to work. And he sits there and he reads the entire book to you while it sort of coalesces around him. And the thing that I've been missing from those other two adaptations is the text. And it is. You don't miss it here. You get it all. It is. I've seen it, I think twice, which means I've put 12 hours into it. And so I'm ready to do it again.

[Caller/Listener]

Wow.

[Alison Stewart]

Bad. And I'm pronouncing this right. K, R E Y O L. Bad Creole.

[Helen Shaw]

Bad Creole, yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay, let's ask about Bad Creole.

[Caller/Listener]

What's going on there?

[Helen Shaw]

So Dominique Morisot, who I love by. So, you know, I.

[Alison Stewart]

As a playwright, I wanted to talk.

[Helen Shaw]

About this project partially because I think Dominique Morisot is exciting, but also because Bad Creole is the last show of hers that's going to be at the Signature. So Signature Theater, as you can tell from the title, is interested in the playwright's signature. And so they've had several of her pieces there. That's what they do, is they program seasons. These seasons can sometimes extend over many years of playwrights, of sometimes old stuff, sometimes new stuff. And so, for instance, last season we saw Sunset Baby. And now we're going to get Bad Creole, which is a new work. And this is the kind of longitudinal, you know, syllabus viewing where you really get to understand what is going on in one of our great creators. Confederates is, for me, her finest play. It was also its signature. I'm really thrilled to see what she does as her swan song.

[Caller/Listener]

There's what about McNeil? I just turned on the radio, so I may have missed it.

[Helen Shaw]

Well, I will say that I am, you know, I'm a booster. I'm a cheerleader for the theater in general and so I would never say anything concerned about a show when I haven't seen it. However, when we were talking about stars earlier, I am interested to see what happens when Robert Downey Jr. Comes to a stage which he has not chosen to be on for some decades. And so might it be a car crash? It might be, but you know, a car crash worth seeing.

[Caller/Listener]

We have to talk about the ticket price on Broadway's show. It hit an all time high this year. We talked about it on this show. There are many reasons the prices are so are increasing. Some people something as simple as the labor costs and how much the lumber costs. Sometimes if it's a big celebrity, they get a take at the box office and that can send up prices. What is your take on the financial trade off behind one bringing in a big star?

[Helen Shaw]

Yeah, but it does also sell the tickets.

[Alison Stewart]

But it sells the tickets. Right.

[Helen Shaw]

I, you know, I was saying, I teach and I tell my students the very first day of class, here are how to get rush tickets. Here's how to call a box office. Here's how to stand out front and not pay your Ticketmaster surcharges. Here's how to get in cheaply. There are ways it is rough that you have to follow a show on Instagram, that you have to go to bwayrush.com in order to figure out what the rush policy is or whatever that it requires a kind of an insider take. But I was sitting next to somebody at Ghetto Gatsby when I saw it earlier this summer who'd seen it four times and she had not been paying full freight. So for those people who are in New York who can spend that kind of time looking for the tickets, it's possible. I will tell you when I was in London and I am so jealous, the grass does seem to be greener there. They have a very thriving young audience and I think that is because the tickets, while getting more expensive, there are still a fraction of what they are here.

[Alison Stewart]

Text says off Broadway. Great production by highly regarded Russian expat director in a small space at center at West Park Presbyterian Church on Amsterdam in 86. Are you familiar?

[Helen Shaw]

A friend of mine went to see that. I have not seen it. There are certainly expats, Russian directors who are working in New York right now. Dmitry Krimov is another one who is now working at La Mama, because in Russia, being a theater director is actually being somebody who you might be asked about your political standing. Oh, really interesting. And so if you have gone on record as being against the war, against the invasion, or in any way critical of Putin, if those people want to work, they have pretty much left the country.

[Alison Stewart]

Anything else that you've seen that you're in love with?

[Helen Shaw]

So I. So it's my own personal root taste is I love, like, being in a basement with someone throwing salami at me. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's gotta be weird. And so the top weird stuff right now is at NYU's Skirball center and is at BAM and is at Japan Society. It's these, these festivals of very short runs of international projects, many of which look very cool to me. I think the top one, the one where I am the most sort of ha ha ha, it's coming here is a one person. I think it's one person cabaret version of Showgirls, the movie Showgirls in which a cabaret star sitting at her makeup table is sort of entering into the gnome y mind of the Verhoeven movie. And I. That for me is. Nothing says theater like that.

[Alison Stewart]

I go to a lot of theater, not as much as you do, but I do go to a lot of theater. And something I noticed is that people, some people don't really know how to react anymore. I don't know if it's because they've been at home on the couch and they're used to yelling. A woman yelled in the middle of a silent scene the other day at the theater. I'm curious what you've seen. Have you seen that at all, or is this just my luck?

[Helen Shaw]

No. So it's happening. Some theater artists are playing with it. So Philip Howes, who did a show called Six Characters that was at Lincoln center at the end of this past season, psyched us all out by as we walked into the theater. We had to put on wristbands if we were willing to participate. And I will tell you, I do not like to participate. You know what I mean? I like to sit in my seat and be invisible. And so I, you know, I was like, no, thank you so much. And then it was all a fake out. There was a sor of violation of the fourth wall, but we didn't ever actually have to participate. And yet what it had done was created this real kind of porous relationship. People were yelling at the stage. People were saying, hey, go to the next step at a guy who was on a ladder who couldn't reach something. It was, it was actually pretty thrilling. Do I feel that, say, King Lear at the Shed is going to have the same excitement around an audience that says, you know, pick your younger daughter. She's the one who loves you? Probably not.

[Alison Stewart]

Helen Shaw is the New Yorker's theater critic. We really appreciate you coming in, Helen.

[Helen Shaw]

Thank you so much.

[WNYC Announcer]

Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody award and a DuPont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.