Podcast Summary: All Of It – "A Guide To Making Holiday Traditions Secular, And Sacred"

Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host: Kate Hines (filling in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Sasha Sagan and David Lang

Introduction

In this episode of WNYC's All Of It, host Kate Hines delves into the evolving landscape of holiday traditions, exploring how they can be both secular and sacred. With a focus on inclusivity and the diverse cultural fabric of New York City, the conversation navigates the intersection of modern practices and historical customs, aiming to provide listeners with meaningful ways to celebrate the winter season.

Reframing Holiday Traditions with Sasha Sagan

Secular Celebrations and Modern Practices

Kate Hines opens the discussion by highlighting the shift in holiday celebrations from predominantly religious observances to more secular, culturally driven practices. Referencing recent polls, she notes a significant increase in religious unaffiliation and a generational shift in how holidays like Christmas are perceived.

Notable Quote:

"A 2021 Pew poll found that the share of religiously unaffiliated people had grown by 10 percentage points over the past decade."
— Kate Hines [00:18]

Sasha Sagan's Perspective on the Winter Solstice

Sasha Sagan, host of Strange Customs and author of For Small Creatures Such as We, shares her personal approach to celebrating the winter solstice. She emphasizes the natural science behind the solstice and its significance in marking the return of longer days.

Notable Quote:

"We have a dinner party and we light candles and we exchange gifts and we talk about to our kids the idea that the axial tilt of the Earth... makes for seasons."
— Sasha Sagan [01:41]

Connecting Science and Spirituality

Sagan discusses the harmony between scientific understanding and a sense of awe, illustrating how embracing the grandeur of the universe can foster a deeper connection with ourselves and each other without relying on traditional religious beliefs.

Notable Quote:

"Science is not just like a list of formulas to memorize, but it's a philosophy, it's a method for understanding our place in the universe."
— Sasha Sagan [03:09]

Historical Solstice Traditions

The conversation shifts to historical solstice celebrations, with Sagan referencing Macrobius’s account of Saturnalia in ancient Rome. She draws parallels between ancient gift-giving practices and modern holiday customs, highlighting the timeless human desire to bring joy during the darkest days of the year.

Notable Quote:

"There's something really powerful about the idea that when it's dark out, when it's cold, we try to find a way to make joy for one another."
— Sasha Sagan [07:01]

Global Solstice Traditions

Sagan explores various global traditions associated with the solstice, such as Yalda in Iran, which involves staying up all night and sharing poetry. She underscores the universal theme of embracing the darkness and transforming it into a time of beauty and reflection.

Notable Quote:

"Instead of avoiding it, stay up, revel in it, make it beautiful, rather than just sort of putting your head in the sand till it's over."
— Sasha Sagan [08:15]

Raising Children with Secular Traditions

Addressing the upbringing of children in a secular household with diverse cultural traditions, Sagan emphasizes the importance of framing religious stories as influential narratives rather than doctrinal teachings. This approach fosters an appreciation for diverse perspectives and the underlying values of shared human experiences.

Notable Quote:

"This is the way we tell each other, to ourselves, to our children, it's about now."
— Sasha Sagan [10:19]

Embracing New Year's as a Flexible Time Marker

Sagan encourages listeners to view New Year's resolutions as flexible, reminding them that the concept of a "new year" varies across cultures and that personal growth can be pursued at any time.

Notable Quote:

"Every day can be New Year's Day. Tomorrow is another day."
— Sasha Sagan [11:45]

David Lang on "Poor Hymnal" – Bridging Secular and Sacred

Introduction to "Poor Hymnal"

Transitioning from secular traditions, Kate Hines introduces David Lang, a Pulitzer Prize-winning composer, who discusses his new choral composition, Poor Hymnal. The piece seeks to reinterpret the concept of hymns by blending biblical and secular influences to reflect a more inclusive and responsibility-focused community ethos.

Notable Quote:

"Poor Hymnal draws from biblical passages but also secular figures, Mahatma Gandhi, Leo Tolstoy, even Elizabeth Warren."
— Kate Hines [15:12]

Inspiration and Conceptualization

David Lang explains that the inspiration for Poor Hymnal stems from his academic studies of Charles Ives and the role of hymns in community building. Lang aimed to create a collection of hymns that resonate with contemporary values of mutual responsibility and compassion, diverging from traditional religious themes.

Notable Quote:

"I wonder if it's possible to imagine hymns that I could believe in that wouldn't be so far away from the originals that the original people couldn't believe them too."
— David Lang [17:16]

Secular Religious Music

Lang elaborates on his vision of Poor Hymnal as a form of religious music that is not tethered to any existing religion but instead embodies a universal commitment to doing good deeds and caring for one another. This approach aims to foster community through shared moral principles rather than doctrinal beliefs.

Notable Quote:

"It's an imagination of a religion that we should have or a religion that we could have... a utopian idea that we do owe something to each other."
— David Lang [18:04]

Premiere and Performance Details

Lang provides insights into the upcoming premiere of Poor Hymnal at Lincoln Center's Alice Tully Hall. The performance is designed to be interactive, with projected texts to invite audience participation and foster a communal singing experience.

Notable Quote:

"They're going to project the text so that everybody will be able to understand the words... it's made to feel as if you knew the words you would be invited to sing along."
— David Lang [20:49]

Conclusion

In this episode of All Of It, Kate Hines successfully bridges the gap between secular and sacred traditions, offering listeners thoughtful perspectives on how to navigate and enrich holiday celebrations in a diverse and evolving cultural landscape. Through engaging conversations with Sasha Sagan and David Lang, the podcast underscores the importance of community, shared values, and the continual reimagining of traditions to resonate with contemporary life.

Notable Takeaways:

• Embracing Secular Celebrations: Modern holiday traditions can retain their cultural significance while embracing secular themes rooted in history and science.

• Science as a Source of Wonder: Understanding the natural phenomena behind solstices can enhance the sense of awe and community during celebrations.

• Reimagining Hymns: Compositions like Poor Hymnal demonstrate how traditional forms can be adapted to reflect inclusive and compassionate values.

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, insights, and memorable quotes to provide a vivid overview for those who haven't listened.