A History of Free Black Brooklyn

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – A History of Free Black Brooklyn

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Preeti Kanakamedala, Professor of History, Bronx Community College
Episode Date: September 30, 2024

---

Overview

In this episode, Alison Stewart discusses the rich yet often overlooked history of Brooklyn's free Black communities with historian and author Preeti Kanakamedala. Drawing on her new book, "Brooklynites: The Remarkable Story of Free Black Communities That Shaped a Borough," Kanakamedala traces the evolution of free Black Brooklyn from the late 18th to the 19th century. Through the lens of four key families—the Krogers, Hodges, Wilsons, and Gloucesters—the conversation explores themes of self-determination, institution-building, resistance to racism, and community legacy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Early Village of Brooklyn and Its Diverse Roots ([00:49]-[02:39])

• The original Brooklyn village was roughly the area of present-day DUMBO, just a square mile in size, but "packed" and culturally diverse.
  • Quote: “You had people of Dutch descent, English descent, and also people of African descent all trying to figure out how to live alongside each other. So small, but certainly still packed.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (02:21)
• The free Black population was initially small, largely due to Brooklyn’s agricultural landscape where most Black people were enslaved, but this community grew "exponentially" over time, driven by a “Black radical tradition in self-determination.”

2. Gradual Emancipation and the Evolution of Freedom ([03:23]-[07:18])

• Although New York’s Gradual Emancipation Act passed in 1799, it took 28 years for official emancipation, and Brooklyn had unique patterns, including a post-Revolution strengthening of slavery.
• Free Black Brooklynites emerged through multiple paths: migration from Manhattan, freedom gained by Black Loyalists, and through migration from northern states.
  • Quote: “The free Black community isn’t waiting for that emancipation moment...they’re already organizing and mobilizing, thinking of ways in which this community needs institutions.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (08:12)

3. The Krogers: Community Builders and Mutual Aid ([04:36]-[07:03])

• Peter and Benjamin Kroger, officially listed as "whitewashers," played critical roles in founding Brooklyn’s earliest mutual aid societies, churches, and schools, including Bridge Street AME Church.
• The significance of women like Eleanor and Elizabeth Kroger, even though archives often silence Black women’s roles.
  • Quote: “It doesn’t mean as historians or as New Yorkers that we need to honor or celebrate them any less...just because the archives are silent about their contributions doesn’t mean we have to be.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (06:26)

4. Independence from White Abolitionist Philanthropy ([08:25]-[09:34])

• Brooklyn’s Black-led institution-building was notably independent, contrasting other cities like Manhattan and Boston which leaned more on white philanthropy.
  • Quote: “What makes Brooklyn’s story so distinct...is that it comes from the Black community for U.S. buyers...that self-determination, I think, has deep roots in Brooklyn from the early 19th century.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (09:12)

5. The Hodges Family & Williamsburg’s Black Community ([09:34]-[11:00])

• The Hodges, who migrated from Virginia, established a thriving Black community in Williamsburg, finding racism “easier to bear in smaller villages” compared to Manhattan (10:00).
• They replicated and innovated on earlier Brooklyn models: schools, church, small enterprise, helping to shape the area before it became a full-fledged city.

6. Black Land Ownership and Voting Rights ([11:00]-[12:37])

• In the 1820s, Black men had to own $250 in property to be eligible to vote, a near-impossible barrier: “That was about an annual salary for the average working Black man.”
• The struggle for real estate ownership was fundamentally tied to debates and progress around citizenship—well before the 14th and 15th Amendments.

7. The Wilsons: Pioneers in Black Entrepreneurship ([12:37]-[13:57])

• William and Mary Ann Wilson (Mary owned a crockery store) exemplified Black entrepreneurialism as Brooklyn urbanized rapidly.
• William advocated vigorously for Black businesses to stake out space in expanding commercial hubs like Fulton and Atlantic.
  • Quote: “We need to open businesses on that thing called Fulton that seems to be expanding and the other street called Atlantic before someone else takes it all over.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (13:33)
• Contemporary relevance: The tradition continues today with ventures like the “Black-Owned Brooklyn” website.

8. Fugitive Slave Act and its Local Impact ([13:57]-[15:11])

• The Fugitive Slave Act’s chilling effect hit home—James Hamlet of Williamsburg was the first person arrested under the law; Brooklyn’s Black and abolitionist communities staged fundraising campaigns for his release.
  • Quote: “The ways in which these laws have terrorized and traumatized New Yorkers, but at the same time the ways in which New Yorkers have always learned to organize.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (14:47)

9. The Underground Railroad: Brooklyn as Safe Harbor ([15:11]-[16:47])

• Exact Underground Railroad locations are hard to pinpoint, but confirmed sites include Lewis Tappan’s home in Brooklyn Heights.
• Emphasis on freedom seekers "hiding in plain sight"—such as Isaac Hunter running a shoemaking business downtown.
• Black churches (Bridge Street, Shiloh, Concord) were essential as centers of support, fundraising, and faith.
  • Quote: “Incredible, incredible fundraising happening in those churches...again, acting as a sort of center of politics and faith” – Preeti Kanakamedala (16:52)

10. Racial Violence: The 1862 Brooklyn Attack ([17:21]-[19:07])

• The myth that Brooklyn was a sanctuary from racist violence is “nuanced”; in August 1862, Irish mobs attacked Black workers at a Columbia Street tobacco factory, creating terror and forcing many to flee or avoid returning to work.
• This predates the infamous 1863 Draft Riots in Manhattan and highlights Brooklyn's own complex racial history.

11. The Gloucesters: Real Estate, Wealth, and Philanthropy ([19:07]-[20:31])

• Elizabeth Gloucester, among America’s wealthiest women, built her fortune through real estate—she was also a key abolitionist financier, supporting radical causes like John Brown’s raid.
  • Quote: “At one point she’s giving money to John Brown to go raid Harper’s Ferry. Badass...and it’s the same year that her two-year-old Alfred will pass away.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (20:14)
• Kanakamedala underlines that for every Gloucester, many uncelebrated Black women sustained the economy informally.

12. Tracing Brooklyn’s Black Heritage Today ([20:31]-[21:57])

• Most remaining evidence is in archives (especially at the Center for Brooklyn History/Brooklyn Public Library), not in the cityscape.
• The true legacy is felt in the continued activity of historic Black churches, even if no longer in their original locations.
  • Quote: “One of the greatest gifts is to be a New Yorker who is constantly reminded that we are walking on the achievements and the contributions of New Yorkers past.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (21:17)
• Walking tours and historical imagination can help residents connect with these stories.

13. Memorable Research Discovery ([21:50]-[22:18])

• Kanakamedala shares a favorite finding: Pomona Brice, a Black woman fundraiser who challenged the narrative that only prominent men (like preacher Henry Ward Beecher) led such efforts.
  • Quote: “There was Pomona Brice with her sort of collections book and her bank statement. Showing that she was always at the center of her own fundraising.” – Preeti Kanakamedala (21:57)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the persistent silence surrounding Black women in the archives:
  “Just because the archives are silent about their contributions doesn’t mean we have to be.” (06:26)
• On Brooklyn's self-made activism:
  “All of that self-determination, I think, has deep roots in Brooklyn from the early 19th century.” (09:12)
• On linking real estate to citizenship:
  “If you can just buy property, you can vote, and then you could claim you were a citizen. We all know…owning property is the most impossible thing in this city.” (11:17)
• On remembrance:
  “We are walking on the achievements and the contributions of New Yorkers past. Constantly.” (21:17)
• On Elizabeth Gloucester:
  “At one point she’s giving money to John Brown to go raid Harper’s Ferry. Badass.” (20:14)

---

Timestamps by Topic

• Introduction & Setting the Scene: [00:49]-[02:39]
• Origins of Brooklyn’s Free Black Community: [02:39]-[03:23]
• The Gradual Emancipation Act Explained: [07:03]-[08:25]
• Difference from White Philanthropy: [08:25]-[09:34]
• Hodges Family & Williamsburg: [09:34]-[11:00]
• Land, Voting, and Citizenship: [11:00]-[12:37]
• Wilsons’ Business Impact: [12:37]-[13:57]
• Fugitive Slave Act in Brooklyn: [13:57]-[15:11]
• The Underground Railroad in Brooklyn: [15:11]-[16:47]
• Racial Violence in 1862 Brooklyn: [17:21]-[19:07]
• Gloucester Family & Wealth: [19:07]-[20:31]
• Preserving History & Modern Reminders: [20:31]-[21:57]
• Memorable Research Story: [21:50]-[22:18]

---

Conclusion

Preeti Kanakamedala’s study of free Black Brooklyn reveals an underappreciated layer of history defined by agency, resilience, and creativity under oppression. The legacies of community builders, entrepreneurs, and activists endure today, even if their physical traces are faint. Stories like those in "Brooklynites" help us reimagine the landscapes around us and deepen our understanding of how Black Brooklynites shaped not just a borough, but the broader American experiment in democracy and justice.

Transcript

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Surprise. Beach day. No excuses. I'm in. Gimme five.

[Bix Soleil Advertiser]

With Bix Soleil Glide Razor, you'll have hydrated, smooth skin that's ready to go on the fly. No shave cream needed. You can prep, shave and hydrate all in one step thanks to moisture bars that hydrate your skin during and after shaving. 5 flexible blades hug your skin for a close shave. Glide into smooth. It's your time to shine with bixsolil. Buy now at Amazon and Walmart. Ready? Your skin looks amazing. So smooth and beach ready. Let's go. Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's take a trip to Brooklyn of yesteryear. In the years after the American Revolution, Brooklyn was a slave hoping capital. But there was a small, thriving black community that established schools and churches, advocated for voting rights and increased its own financial power. Free black. Excuse me, Free black Brooklyn underwent rapid change and growth while living under a veil of white supremacy and violence. Now a new book traces the history of free black Brooklyn over an 80 year period from the 1790s to the 1870s through four families. The Krogers, the the Hodges, the Wilsons and the Gloucesters. The book is called the Remarkable Story of Free Black Communities that Shaped a Borough. With me now is author Preeti Kakama. Let me get this right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hold on.

[Alison Stewart]

Kanaka Mandala.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Kanakamedala.

[Alison Stewart]

One more time, say it for me.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Kanaka Medila. Kanaka Medila.

[Alison Stewart]

Preeti Kanaka Medila. She's the author of the book. She's a professor of history at Bronx Community College. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Thank you, Alison.

[Alison Stewart]

Meanwhile, Preeti has a book talk tomorrow at the center for Brooklyn history beginning at 6:30. I wanted to say that out loud. So what was the original village of Brooklyn? How much land did it encompass?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Sure. So the original village was about the area we think of today when we think of Dumbo. And it was that very northwest tip that was the village within the town of Brooklyn. So it's the village of Brooklyn within the town of Brooklyn. And it's only about a square mile.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh my gosh.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah. But was just as culturally diverse then as it is perhaps today in that you had people of dut descent, English descent, and also people of African descent all trying to figure out how to live alongside each other. So small, but certainly still packed. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

How prominent was the free black population at this time?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Sure. So the free black community was small. And it was small in comparison to Manhattan. So when I Say, the small community. But it was mighty in its own right. It was growing slowly. And part of the reason was because black Brooklyn was largely agricultural at this time. And so it was people of African descent who were enslaved who were doing most of the labor. So that free black community is smaller to begin with, for many reasons, but it grows exponentially over time. And at the heart of it is that black radical tradition in thinking about self determination and how this community will grow their own institutions.

[Interviewer/Host]

So how did slavery, how did Brooklyn go from being a slave capital to having a free population?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Sure. So that's the law. New York State in 1799 will pass the first gradual Emancipation Act. But it's not in any way immediate. And by that I mean it will take 28 long years for slavery to end in New York State. And the reason Brooklyn deserves to have its own story is because in Brooklyn, it will do something slightly different. Slavery will actually strengthen in numbers at the end of the American Revolution where it starts to wane in, say, Manhattan or other parts of New York State. And so that original free black community came about through, historians think, a variety of methods. One might be that they've come over from Manhattan and that they were free. Could be that their elders or ancestors fought in the American Revolution as black loyalists and gained their freedom, and so their children would have been free. And there were other northern states in which slavery had ceased to exist. So could be folks coming in from Pennsylvania or Massachusetts. But certainly this was a free black community.

[Interviewer/Host]

You look at these four different families. Let's talk about the Krogers. It's Peter and Benjamin are brothers. Their spouses are Eleanor and Elizabeth. How do the Krogers make their money?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Sure. So the Krogers are listed in the census records as a very sort of necessary job. In the village of Brooklyn, they're listed as whitewashes. And back in the day, people would use a lime compound to basically wash their walls rather than painting it constantly. That's how you would get your buildings clean from all the environmental pollution. So that's their official jobs in terms of the census. But I think the book invites us all to think about what our lives look like more whole. So, yes, that's their job in the cen, but actually within the village of Brooklyn, they were building a mutual aid society, building the first black church in Brooklyn, which of course still exists today. It's called Bridge Street. AWME still at the center of faith and politics in that borough, and building a school, so doing so much more. I think, as we all do as New Yorkers, we have our day job. But then for those who are committed to their communities, we do so much more in terms of grassroots building.

[Alison Stewart]

We know so much more about Peter and Benjamin than we do about their wives. How common is the disparity between black men and black women in historical archives?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Huge, always. Early 19th century archives are so difficult to recover the lives of ordinary black women. And I think it's very intentional that I raise that constantly in the book. And it doesn't mean as historians or as New Yorkers that we need to honor or celebrate them any less. It just means that we need to think in more creative ways about the ways in which black women existed in Brooklyn. You know, it's a huge year for us in terms of democracy here in the United States, and we're constantly talking about black women saving the election. That has a huge history in this country and in this city. Black women were always at the center of organizing. You know, Peter Kroger, officially, in the newspaper, the school opens at his home. Well, he shares that home with his wife, Eleanor Kroeger. So in my mind, well, who was inviting all these folks into the home? You know, who was making them comfortable? Who was creating space? That would have been Eleanor Kroger. So I think just because the archives are silent about their contributions doesn't mean we have to be in terms of historians and sort of the books that we write.

[Alison Stewart]

I wanted to ask back up a little bit, because the Krogers were free blacks in Brooklyn when slavery was still legal in New York. And it was called a gradual emancipation. What does a gradual emancipation look like? What does that law? A gradual emancipation?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah, it's a mouthful. And it's really. It was designed, intentionally designed to sort of protect or help slaveholders rather than enslaved people. And so that Gradual Emancipation act passed in 1799 is complicated by intention. It states that anybody born to an enslaved mother after July 4, 1799, will be free at the age of 28 if male and 25 if female. And that, of course, ensures you get the best working years out of that person who is enslaved. So just a lot going on. But I think the message or the hope of that community is that free black community isn't waiting for that emancipation moment to happen in July 4, 1827, when slavery will eventually end. They're already organizing and mobilizing and thinking of ways in which this community needs institutions and it needs something in order to ensure political and legal quality, which, of course, nobody was talking about during the gradual emancipation period.

[Interviewer/Host]

My guest is Preeti Kanakamedala. We're talking about her new book, Brooklynites the remarkable story of the free black communities that shaped a borough. By the way, Preeti has a book talk tomorrow, the center for Brooklyn history, beginning at 6:30pm so you mentioned they built mutual aid societies, schools, churches, but they did so independently of northern white abolitionist philanthropy. Why is that an important distinction?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Absolutely. So as historians, when we teach the history of Manhattan or even Boston, which were huge hotbeds of abolitionism, some of those roots come from white philanthropy. And I think what makes Brooklyn's story so distinct, so unique is that it comes from the Black community for U.S. buyers. And I think the roots of that are still felt in Brooklyn today. You know, as a young person, certainly growing up in the 90s back in Liverpool, England, all we would hear about is sort of that black art renaissance period coming out of Fort Greene. And so all of that self determination, I think has deep roots in Brooklyn from the early 19th century of we'll just create and make it for ourselves.

[Interviewer/Host]

We're going to talk about another part of Williamsburg, excuse me, of Brooklyn Williamsburg. It's not yet a part of Brooklyn yet, but it was thought to be rural, a small town, the home to the second free black community in Kings County. And that's where the Hodges family was from.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

They're not from there, they move there.

[Interviewer/Host]

They move there from Virginia.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

That's right.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what was it like? What was it about living in a smaller village that made it easier for free blacks?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah. So thank God Willis Hodges left his autobiography. And he tells us himself, he says the racism is more easier to bear in smaller villages. The Hodges, like so many people who will eventually become New Yorkers, you know, move here to sort of fulfill their own ambitions and dreams. And so they move to Williamsbur because they have lived in Manhattan and the place is now a city unto itself. And they find the racism too intense. And so they move to Williamsburg to think about how they can really grow that village in an anti slavery vision. And so they do a lot of the same things that the Krogers are doing 20 years earlier, which is they'll create a school, they'll establish a black church, and then they'll start to sort of grow their own cell phone business, small businesses. So thinking about the ways in which they can the city before it becomes a city and really shape the streets and neighborhoods, the Hodges were part of.

[Alison Stewart]

An effort to take on big political issues in New York. The owning of land to get the right to vote you write real estate, voting citizenship, that order. How easy was it for black people to own land? Free black people?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Oh, it was impossible. And I never want to sort of state as I do. You know, I talk about it in the book that somehow if you can just buy property, you can vote and then you could claim you were a citizen. We all know as New Yorkers today, getting on that property ladder, owning property is the most impossible thing in this city. So you had to own, according to the New York State Constitution, which makes an amendment in 1821 $250 worth of property in order to vote. And that was about an annual salary for the average working black man. So if you think about your annual salary and how much you're actually able to save, the idea of saving a full year's worth just to be able to buy enough property and then tell the state you are eligible to vote is huge. That's a huge obstacle. And the reason for the formula of citizenship is it is pre1870, so there is no sort of 14th or 15th amendment around. If I'm born on US soil, I am an American citizen. And if I am an American citizen, I therefore have the right to vote. Those amendments don't exist yet. And so again, it is free black people who are pioneering these kinds of arguments around what citizenship looks like in the United States.

[Interviewer/Host]

The other family you mentioned is the Wilsons. Mary Ann Wilson and her husband William J. Wilson. They were both active community members. Mary even owned her own business on Atlantic Avenue.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

What was the business? It was a crockery store.

[Interviewer/Host]

How else did they get involved in local business? The Wilsons?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah. You know, the Wilsons are so close to my heart just because they were educators as well. And they really, again, they're not from Brooklyn, but they will move to Brooklyn and become long term Brooklynites, really shaping the neighborhood. The Wilsons arrive here at a time when Brooklyn is really starting to transform it's way on its way to becoming the third largest city in the United States. And they understand really early on something about racial capitalism and having black owned businesses in this city. And so they're constantly, Williams writing in various newspapers, one owned by Frederick Douglass saying we need to open businesses on that thing called Fulton that seems to be expanding and the other street called Atlantic before someone else takes it all over. And so huge, huge, huge advocates of black owned businesses. And again, thinking about Brooklyn today, I love that website, Black Owned Brooklyn that celebrates what it means in the entrepreneurialship. So yes, huge history in Brooklyn.

[Interviewer/Host]

A dark part of American history is the Fugitive slave Act of 1850, where any American found assisting a, quote, fugitive or runaway slave could be fined in prison and any black person suspected of being a runaway slave could be sent back. When you think about the impact of the Fugitive Slave act on Brooklyn's free black population, how did it compare to other regions in the North?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

So the first person who's going to be arrested after the federal government passes that Fugitive Slave act is a Brooklynite. It's a person from Williamsburg. His name is James Hamlet. So I would say the impact of it is felt and it's seen here in New York City. He is arrested in Manhattan, but he is absolutely from Brooklyn. And again, it will be Brooklynites and New Yorkers figuring out how to fundraise and get money so that they can get him out of Baltimore. And I think a lesser known part of that story is his wife is right there at the center of it, fundraising as well. So thinking of the ways in which I think these sort of laws have terrorized and traumatized New Yorkers, but at the same time, the ways in which New Yorkers have always learned to organize.

[Interviewer/Host]

Around them, let's flip to the other side. The Underground Railroad. Where were the most used properties in Brooklyn?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Sure. So the most used. It's hard, Alison, because so much of this wasn't documented. There is William still in Philadelphia, and he actively documents everything. But we do know that in New York, specifically in Brooklyn, there was a young girl called Ann Maria Weems who will stay in Brooklyn Heights because she stays at Lewis Tappan's home, who is a white abolitionist. There's also various places dotted around. And I think in the book, I sort of invite readers to think about the Underground Railroad. Those spaces not necessarily being about attics and tunnels, I think, as popular conception has been around them. But if you think about it as these are ordinary, you know, American residents coming from the south, freedom seekers who want to make a life for themselves. The last thing they want to do is hide. And so what they can do in Brooklyn is come here and figure out, stay with somebody and start to figure out, well, how do I get a job? How do I have a piece of that American dream? How do I own a home? And so you see lots of freedom seekers coming here and certainly to Brooklyn in which they're starting businesses. The book talks about Isaac Hunter, who comes from North Carolina and is hiding in plain sight. He's a shoe person. He's a shoe repair person in downtown Brooklyn. So thinking about, again, not necessarily hiding, but Actually, Brooklyn being a sort of destination, I have to imagine the churches.

[Alison Stewart]

Were really important at this point.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Absolutely.

[Alison Stewart]

Tell me more.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah, there are so many black churches that still exist today. Bridge Street, Shiloh, Concord. Incredible, incredible fundraising happening in those churches. Thinking about how to buy somebody out of their enslavement, and again, acting as a sort of center of politics and faith in which they have a home and a community once they've moved here. So, yes, black churches, individuals, businesses, everybody sort of contributing to this financial arrangement around the Underground railroad.

[Alison Stewart]

Around the 1860s were a time of increased violence in New York. The draft Riots of 1863 in Manhattan, led by mobs of Irish immigrants. But the violence also came to Brooklyn's Black community in 1862. What happened on August 4th of that year? Where did the violence take place?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah, absolutely. So, like all New York summers, it was probably oppressively hot and everybody is angry and sort of fed up with it all. But there's also the Civil War happening in the background, and that is the key backdrop. So the tobacco factory, which is today sort of that bit of Brooklyn that's cut off by the BQE Columbia street end, had a number of free black people that work there, men, women and children. And in that summer, you know, Irish community, Irish mobs would go through. And basically it's the first recorded act of sort of white terrorism in that part of Brooklyn. And it devastates the community. Most of those workers are so traumatized, they don't want to return to work. But I say that because the way in which we have talked about the Draft Riots is, you know, all the sort of domestic terrorism happened on Manhattan streets in 1863. And that free black community will run for their lives to Brooklyn. And I just wanted to nuance that slightly because, yes, absolutely, it was incredibly traumatic the summer of 1863. But I would never want Brooklyn to feel like it was some sort of bastion of liberty and freedom. You know, it had its own problems and racist violence. And so that was the reason for bringing in 1862 and showing actually Brooklyn was as complex as Manhattan.

[Interviewer/Host]

I did want to get to the Gloucester family before we wrap up. Led by Elizabeth Gloucester. She's buried in Greenwood Cemetery today, to give you kind of a hint that she amassed a certain amount of wealth. How did she make it in Brooklyn?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah, she made it like really smart New Yorkers through real estate. She bought lots and lots of real estate. And, you know, the brilliant Brent Staples is also written about Elizabeth Gloucester. She will die one of the richest women in the United States when she dies in the late 19th century. And, you know, I think, I hope rather the book invites people to think. For every Elizabeth Gloucester, there were dozens of ordinary black women also sustaining the economy in much more informal ways. So, yes, Elizabeth Gloucester, hugely important. And I hope I sort of, sort of contoured her life by thinking about. She was amazing in that she was super rich and she owned lots of real estate. But also she was an ordinary human being who suffered all of the same kind of losses that we do as human beings. So, you know, at one point she's giving money to John Brown to go raid Harper's Ferry. Badass. You know, she's like, go start the revolution. And it's the same year that her two year old Alfred will pass away. And so thinking about, you know, pediatric outcomes for black children and certainly also for black women, you know, in researching.

[Interviewer/Host]

This book, where in the cities do most of the. The research for researching free black Brooklynites exist? Where does it exist?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

All over the place. But the majority, in terms of archives, still exist at center for Brooklyn History, which is part of Brooklyn Public Library and are freely available to see for anybody who wants to. That site was previously Brooklyn Historical Society, which existed for almost 100 years and no longer does.

[Interviewer/Host]

If someone were walking around Brooklyn today, what clues remain of the free black Brooklynites?

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah. Do you know, it's an odd one because I'm not sure there is much in terms of landscape. The black churches still exist. Absolutely. They just don't exist in the original locations. But you know, when I like to, as an educator who takes my students on walking tours all the time, I think one of the greatest gifts is to be a New Yorker who is constantly reminded that we are walking on the achievements and the contributions of New Yorker's past. Constantly. So that even if that specific building is not there and there's a few examples that are in the book, but even if it's not to imagine, what would these New Yorkers or Brooklynites have heard, what would they have smelt, what would they have seen in terms of the street? And to really bring the past to life in that way.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's one thing that you remember from your research, do you think? Yes, I remember this. I tell people about this in our last minute.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yeah, There was a black woman who was fundraising for her family and it kind of broke open the idea that a very famous preacher, Henry Ward Beecher, was raising all the money by himself. There was Pomona Brice with her sort of collections book and her bank statement. Showing that she was always at the center of her own fundraising.

[Interviewer/Host]

Preeti Khana Kamadala.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Yes. Perfect. Thank you. All right.

[Interviewer/Host]

She's a professor of history at Bronx Community College in the city of New York. Her book is Brooklynites the Remarkable Story of the Free Black Communities that Shaped a Borough. Preeti has a book talk tomorrow at the center for Brooklyn history beginning at 6:30pm thank you so much for joining us to share the story with us.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Oh, thank you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Coming up on tomorrow's show, Saoirse Ronan a new film called the Outrun. She stars as Rona, a young woman struggling with alcoholism. In her attempt to get sober, she returns to her home, remote islands off the coast of Scotland. It opens in Friday and she will join us to discuss. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you and I will meet you back here next time if I don't see you tonight at the library.

[Bix Soleil Advertiser]

Surprise.

[Preeti Kanakamedala]

Beach Day. No excuses. I'm in. Gimme five.

[Bix Soleil Advertiser]

With Bix Soleil Glide Razor, you'll have hydrated, smooth skin that's ready to go on the fly. No shave cream needed. You can prep, shave and hydrate all in one step thanks to moisture bars that hydrate your skin during and after shaving. 5 flexible blades hug your skin for a close shave. Glide into smooth. It's your time to shine with bixsolil. Buy now at Amazon and Walmart. Ready. Your skin looks amazing. So smooth and beach ready. Let's go.

[Interviewer/Host]

NYC now delivers breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening. By sponsoring our programming, you'll reach a community of passionate listeners in an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to learn more.