All Of It (WNYC)

Episode Summary: "A History of Movie Music"

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Elliot Forrest, WQXR Host
Air Date: September 26, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolution, artistry, and emotional impact of movie music. Host Alison Stewart and guest Elliot Forrest (WQXR) trace the history of film scores, highlight iconic composer-director collaborations, and feature listener calls on favorite soundtrack moments. The show balances behind-the-scenes stories, technical insights, and passionate listener engagement, capturing the essential role music plays in shaping our cinematic experiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origins and Artistry of Film Scores

• Opening Context (00:08):
  Alison Stewart introduces the episode’s focus on movie music, referencing the famous 20th Century Fox fanfare composed by Alfred Newman, and noting his legacy as the father and uncle of multiple renowned composers.

• Early Film Music (05:33):
  Elliot Forrest explains that "silent" films always featured live music, even before soundtracks, underscoring how music has been integral since cinema’s inception.

  “Even at the beginning, there was someone playing live. So music has always been a part of the films, even in the quote, unquote, silent era.” (06:00, Elliot)

• Birth of Underscoring (06:06):
  Discussion of "diegetic" (music present in the world of the film) vs. "nondiegetic" or underscoring (background score). Forrest recounts how Max Steiner helped pioneer underscoring in the 1930s with Symphony of Six Million when adding music under a scene proved more effective than logic about “where the orchestra is.”

  “Underscoring was born.” (06:54, Elliot)

Iconic Composers and Game-Changing Scores

Bernard Herrmann & Psychological Scoring

• Bernard Herrmann’s Partnership with Hitchcock (02:52):
  Forrest describes his awakening to film music via Bernard Herrmann, lauding Herrmann’s ability to convey emotional and psychological content, notably in films from Citizen Kane to Taxi Driver, covering most Hitchcock thrillers in between.

  “He understood some aspects of psychology and really capturing what was going on emotionally... he’s giving you a hint as to who the killer is in the music.” (03:37, Elliot)

• Psycho’s String-Only Score (05:04):
  Herrmann’s orchestration choices (e.g., exclusively strings in Psycho) create heightened tension and unique aural landscapes.

Howard Shore’s Lord of the Rings

• Listener Call: Kristen on Howard Shore (07:50):
  Kristen describes how Shore’s music for The Lord of the Rings is essential to her emotional connection to the films.

  “Every important moment in this film… is just really empowered by Howard Shore’s music and that film… is nothing without the music that underscores it.” (07:50, Kristen)

• Wagnerian Influence and Leitmotifs (08:33):
  Forrest highlights how Shore’s scores use recurring themes for characters and objects, echoing Wagner’s operatic approach.

Mika Levi’s Modern Approach

• Listener Call: Eric on Under the Skin (10:00):
  Recognition for Mika Levi's eerie, melodic score that balances modernity with strong themes.

John Williams & Spielberg

• Collaborative Relationships (10:45):
  Discussion about why some directors like Spielberg continually partner with composers like John Williams—because the composer “is the second major voice in the film.”

  “They create these relationships almost for life… you’re gonna help create this new world.” (11:00, Elliot)

• Scoring E.T.: Cutting to the Music (13:08):
  Forrest relays how, in a rare move, Spielberg edited the ending of E.T. to fit Williams' sweeping music, rather than the usual reverse.

The Wizard of Oz and the Movie Musical

• Listener Call: Tex on The Wizard of Oz (14:08):
  Tex claims The Wizard of Oz's score remains unsurpassed in film music's history.
• Forrest on Orchestras in Film (15:26):
  Most symphonic and orchestral music today is heard in films rather than concert hall settings.

Contemporary Pairings and Diversification

Spike Lee & Terence Blanchard

• Strong Director-Composer Partnerships (17:26):
  Focus on Blanchard's trumpet-forward style and his “other voice” role in Lee’s films (e.g., Malcolm X).

Tim Burton & Danny Elfman

• Listener Call: Monk on Popular Musicians in Film (19:23):
  Discussion on pop/rock musicians like Danny Elfman and Jonny Greenwood crossing over, showing “the versatility of these musicians.”

  “It’s kind of mind blowing.” (19:23, Monk)

• Elliot on Elfman/Burton Chemistry (20:11):
  Describes Elfman as “a little offbeat” which made him an ideal partner for the visually quirky Burton. Notable works: Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, Batman.

Rachel Portman and Women in Film Scoring

• Introduction to Portman (22:06):
  Forrest highlights Portman’s elegant compositions for films like Emma, discussing the underrepresentation of women in film composition.

Italian Masters

• Listener Call: Laura on Morricone & Rota (23:46):
  Laura admires the immersiveness of Ennio Morricone (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly) and Nino Rota (Fellini’s 8½), noting how their music transports the listener.

• Oscar Anecdote (24:29):
  Forrest tells how Rota’s Godfather score was disqualified from the Oscars because it recycled material from a previous film.

Expanding Influence: From Animation to TV

• Listener Call: Bianca on Music in Animation and TV (25:02):
  Mentions how Michael Giacchino's Up and TV themes like Game of Thrones instantly evoke visuals, demonstrating the broader cultural permeation of film music.

Bringing It Together: Sunday Event Preview & Reflections

• Sunday Event Details (25:52):
  Forrest previews his upcoming live/streamed Green Space discussion with conductor Leonard Slatkin, promising “about 30 different film clips” and more stories.

  “All the tickets to this event in the green space [are] sold out, but we're going to stream it... wherever you are around the planet.” (25:57, Elliot)

• Favorite Scores & Legacy (26:29):
  Forrest names Lawrence of Arabia and To Kill a Mockingbird as personal favorites, crediting Elmer Bernstein’s work as “very American” and indispensable to the film’s texture.

• Final Salute to Hans Zimmer (26:56):
  Alison Stewart cues “Interstellar,” praising Zimmer as a “most popular and active” modern film composer, especially known for big, dramatic moments.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bernard Herrmann’s influence:
  "That's a career from Citizen Kane to Taxi Driver with all the Hitchcock in the middle. That's amazing." (02:52, Elliot Forrest)

• On the psychological power of music:
  "He's giving you a hint as to who the killer is in the music. So there's a lot. It can be dense and really interesting." (03:37, Elliot Forrest)

• On collaborative relationships:
  "The composer is the second major voice in the film." (10:45, Doug McGrath via Elliot Forrest)

• Listener impact:
  "Every important moment in this film... is just really empowered by Howard Shore's music." (07:50, Kristen, listener from NJ)

• On the mainstreaming of orchestral music:
  "The majority of the symphonic and orchestral music heard today is heard in the movies." (15:26, Elliot Forrest)

• On film music enabling visual recall:
  "You can hear some music and instantly think of the visuals that come with it." (25:02, Bianca, listener)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:08 — Episode Intro, overview of movie music theme
• 02:52 — Bernard Herrmann’s legacy, psychological scoring
• 06:06 — Underscoring vs. diegetic music, history with Max Steiner
• 07:50 — Listener: Kristen on Howard Shore and Lord of the Rings
• 10:00 — Listener: Eric on Mika Levi’s Under the Skin
• 10:45 — The nature of composer-director relationships
• 13:08 — John Williams & Spielberg; editing E.T. to fit the score
• 14:08 — Listener: Tex on The Wizard of Oz; importance of musicals
• 17:26 — Leonard Slatkin’s background; preview of upcoming event
• 17:35 — Spike Lee & Terence Blanchard partnership, Malcolm X
• 19:23 — Listener: Monk on Danny Elfman and transitioning musicians
• 22:06 — Spotlight: Rachel Portman and gender in film composing
• 23:46 — Listener: Laura on Morricone/Rota; Italian film music
• 24:29 — Oscar anecdote about Nino Rota and The Godfather
• 25:02 — Listener: Bianca on Up, TV music, visual association
• 25:52 — Details on the Green Space live/streamed event
• 26:29 — Personal favorite scores
• 26:56 — Hans Zimmer’s contemporary dominance (Interstellar)

Tone & Style

The conversation is enthusiastic, inclusive, and passionate—balancing musicologist insight with cinematic nostalgia and listener engagement. The show honors both the technical craft and emotional heart of film music, inviting both experts and newcomers to appreciate its history and ongoing evolution.