A History of Ward's Island Told Through Marginalized New Yorkers Sent to Live There

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – A History of Ward's Island Told Through Marginalized New Yorkers Sent to Live There

Episode Details

• Title: A History of Ward's Island Told Through Marginalized New Yorkers Sent to Live There
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Guest: Philip Llanos, Professor of Psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and CUNY Graduate Center
• Release Date: April 17, 2025
• Description: This episode delves into the complex history of Ward's Island, exploring its role as a long-standing home for New York City's most marginalized populations. Through the lens of Philip Llanos's research and personal experiences, the discussion uncovers the island's evolution, current state, and future prospects.

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Introduction to Ward's Island

[00:38] Alison Stewart:
Alison Stewart opens the discussion by highlighting the obscurity of Ward's Island despite its significant role in housing marginalized groups for nearly two centuries. She introduces Philip Llanos and his book, Exiles in New York City: Warehousing the Marginalized on Ward's Island, setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of the island's history and present-day circumstances.

Understanding Ward's Island

[02:02] Philip Llanos:
Philip Llanos provides a geographical overview of Ward's Island, situated in the East River between East Harlem and Astoria, Queens. He explains that while many New Yorkers pass over the island daily via the Triborough RFK Bridge, few are aware of its active institutions.

[03:04] Philip Llanos:
He details the current facilities on the island, which house approximately 1,300 individuals across two psychiatric hospitals, two homeless shelters, two community residences, and a substance abuse treatment program. This concentration underscores the island's ongoing role as a repository for society's most vulnerable.

Historical Context and Marginalization

[06:44] Philip Llanos:
Delving into history, Llanos recounts the pivotal event of 1847 when New York City established an immigrant refuge on Ward's Island following resistance in Astoria. This move set a precedent for utilizing the island to house various marginalized groups, a trend that has persisted for over 180 years.

[07:50] Philip Llanos:
He connects Ward's Island's history to the broader "Not In My Backyard" (NIMBY) phenomenon, illustrating how New York City's dense population has consistently sought to isolate marginalized populations—from immigrants in the 19th century to the homeless and individuals with mental health issues today.

Personal Narratives and Experiences

[05:20] Philip Llanos:
Reflecting on his personal connection, Philip shares memories from his childhood spent on the island due to his father's role as a psychiatrist. These anecdotes provide a humanizing glimpse into life on Ward's Island, contrasting with its clinical and institutional aspects.

Listener Calls:

• Herbert from the Bronx ([08:55]-[10:00]):
  Herbert recounts his childhood experience as a patient at the Manhattan Children's Treatment Center on Ward's Island during the early 1970s, describing the treatment as generally positive despite the challenges of being on medication.

• Kathy from Manhattan ([10:10]-[12:16]):
  Kathy, a social work intern, discusses witnessing a lobotomy and emphasizes the island's reputation as an inescapable state mental institution during the 1970s.

• Teresa from Midtown ([14:23]-[15:09]):
  Teresa shares her admiration for the island's recreational areas, highlighting a lack of awareness about the island's marginalized populations and expressing gratitude for the insights provided by Philip.

• Susanna from the East Village ([16:22]-[17:00]):
  Susanna seeks guidance on accessing institutional records of her grandmother, who was interned on Ward's Island, reflecting on the profound personal impact of the island's institutional practices.

• Diana from the Upper West Side ([17:55]-[19:32]):
  Diana, an intern from the mid-1990s, praises the individuals she met on the island and underscores the island's role as a "warehouse" for long-term residents, advocating for recognition and change.

Public Perception and Awareness

[02:13] Philip Llanos:
Philip discusses the persistent lack of public awareness about Ward's Island's active institutions, attributing it to rebranding efforts that merge Ward's Island with Randalls Island. This conflation obscures the ongoing residential and institutional functions of Ward's Island beneath its recreational image.

[04:08] Philip Llanos:
He critiques the rebranding as detrimental, noting that while Randalls Island focuses on recreation, Ward's Island continues to segregate marginalized individuals from the broader New York City community.

Proposed Solutions for Ward's Island's Future

[19:32] Philip Llanos:
In the concluding segment, Philip outlines seven proposals aimed at transforming Ward's Island into a more integrated and humane space. He emphasizes that these proposals are interconnected and prioritize housing, accessibility, and community amenities.

Key Proposals:

1. Consolidation of Hospital Buildings:
   Philip advocates for centralizing the three current hospital buildings into a single structure, allowing for the demolition of two buildings to make way for affordable housing.

2. Construction of Affordable Housing:
   Reallocating space from underused hospital facilities to create housing for shelter residents and other low-income New Yorkers.

3. Development of Community Amenities:
   Introducing essential services such as grocery stores, pharmacies, and dining establishments to foster a self-sufficient and welcoming community.

4. Enhanced Public Transportation:
   Increasing the frequency of the M35 bus route to improve accessibility, making it easier for residents and visitors to reach the island and engage with its amenities.

[21:12] Philip Llanos:
He stresses that these measures would not only provide necessary services and housing but also dismantle the existing segregation, allowing marginalized individuals to interact more freely with the rest of the city and access community resources.

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by reiterating Philip Llanos's contributions through his book and his upcoming event. The discussion leaves listeners with a deeper understanding of Ward's Island's historical and present-day significance, highlighting the urgent need for systemic changes to address long-standing injustices faced by its residents.

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Key Takeaways:

• Historical Marginalization: Ward's Island has been utilized for nearly two centuries to house New York City's marginalized populations, reflecting broader societal tendencies to segregate vulnerable groups.
• Lack of Public Awareness: Despite its significant role, Ward's Island remains obscure to many New Yorkers, partly due to rebranding efforts that overshadow its institutional functions.
• Personal Impact: Listener stories reveal the profound and often challenging experiences of those who have lived or worked on the island.
• Proposed Reforms: Philip Llanos offers actionable solutions aimed at de-segregating the island, improving accessibility, and providing necessary community resources to foster integration and support.

Notable Quotes:

• Philip Llanos ([07:50]):
  "Ward's island as a dumping ground for marginalized groups for the past 180 years."

• Herbert ([09:10]):
  "It was a good place... a lot of us would just throw away."

• Kathy ([10:30]):
  "When you were committed there, you couldn't get out. It was just... a state mental institution."

• Teresa ([14:50]):
  "I always knew it as Randalls Island... but I'm unaware of all the other aspects of it that I'm hearing now."

• Diana ([18:10]):
  "Meeting the patients and when I left the internship, there was a keen awareness... this really is a warehouse for them."

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This episode of "All Of It" provides a comprehensive examination of Ward's Island, shedding light on its historical context, current challenges, and potential pathways toward a more inclusive and equitable future for its residents.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

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[Philip Llanos]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Philip Llanos]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. For almost 200 years, New York has used Ward's island to house its most marginalized residents. Over a thousand people live on the island today. Many of them are patients in psychiatric hospitals, home homeless shelters, community residences, and a substance abuse program, not to mention a migrant shelter that was recently closed. Our guest says there isn't another island like it in North America. And yet many New Yorkers have never heard of Wards Island. Philip Tjanos grew up on wards island for 10 years because his dad was a psychiatrist for an island hospital. Philip followed in his dad's footsteps. He's a professor of psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal justice and the CUNY Graduate Center. He's worked with patients on Ward's Island. Philip has written a new book called Exiles in New York Warehousing the Marginalized on Ward's Island. He writes in the book, I believe it is time for New York City to come to terms with the way it has been using Ward's island as a dumping ground for marginalized groups for the past 180 years and take explicit steps to make amends for its past and current injustices. Philip Llanos is with me now in studio to discuss his research. He has a book event at the Word up community bookshop at 2113Amsterdam Avenue on Saturday, May 3rd at 3pm he joins us now in studio. It is so nice to meet you.

I'm very, very honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Considering that in your book you found that many New Yorkers don't know about Wards island, let's start simple. What is Ward's Island?

Yeah, so Wards island is a landmass that's in the east river between East Harlem and Astoria, queens, roughly opposite 99th Street, 215th Street. And most people who interact with it either interact with it because they're going over it on the overpass of the Triborough RFK Bridge. So if they're going from Manhattan to Queens, that's what they would go over, or they interact with it through the sports programs that operate there. There's a lot of fields that are used for sports programs. So most people kind of have this dim sense that there's institutions that might have been there at one time, but they don't know that they're still very much active.

Yeah. Before we get into the history, what services still exist for people in Wards Island? Approximately how many people there?

Right. So it's about 1,300 people. There's two hospitals, Manhattan Psychiatric center and Kirby Forensic Psychiatric Center. There's two homeless shelters, the Keener Shelter and the Clark Thomas Shelter. There's two community residences, and there's the Odyssey House, residential substance use treatment program.

You write in your book More than 100,000 cars drive over Wards island every day on the Triborough Bridge overpass.

Mm.

Yet most people, a lot of people haven't ever heard of it. Why do you think that is?

Well, another part of it is that there's been kind of a rebranding effort in the last, let's say, 10, 15 years where wards Island's kind of identity has been subsumed by Randall's island, which is a neighboring island that it got connected to by landfill. And largely, people are sort of only thinking about the Randalls island aspect, which is recreational and not about the fact that there are people who are still warehoused there and are very much cut off from life in New York City.

And also, I want to get into your story. You spent time there as a child. What do you remember?

Well, the memories are mostly very good. You know, it was not very. Not a lot of people went there outside of the people who worked in the hospital in those days, even though it already been converted to parkland. But it was very underused. So I have a lot of very nice memories from my childhood. So in the book, I talk about seeing a sky full of stars when the 77 blackout happened. That was quite memorable. Never forget seeing stars in New York City like that. I also remember the filming of the movie Godspell with the. If anybody remembers the movie, but it came out in 1973, sort of a Jesus Christ Superstar type movie. The culminating scene where the Jesus character is crucified on a fence that was filmed on Wards Island. We went and watched that happening. And then just a lot of days playing baseball drills with my brother and our friend Hiram, that we really. We were pretty much the only ones there to play together, and we couldn't play a full baseball game, so we did all these different drills to just amuse ourselves. So things like that.

When did you start to realize Ward's Island's Ward Island's history? Within New York City during your graduate time or when you were in school?

Honestly, I really hadn't looked into it much until I really started to dig in for this book. So I didn't know when the New York City Asylum for the Insane head opened or the emigrant refuge that existed before. I didn't know about that until I started researching for this book. What I knew was that it was something that was off people's radar, and I felt that that was unjust because the people who live there deserve to be paid attention to.

My guest is Filip Llanos, professor of psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal justice and CUNY Graduate Center. We're speaking about his book Exiles in New York City Warehousing the Marginalized on Ward's Island. If you'd like to join this conversation, Our number is 212-433-9692. Are you like Philip and spent time on Wards island, maybe as an employee or a patient or a res and one of its shelters? What was it like for you? 2124-339692-22433. WNYC. Okay, you tell us a fully recorded history of Wards island from the early 1600s to the present. When did Ward's island first become a space for the city's most marginalized New Yorkers?

Right. So kind of the pivotal event was in 1847 when there was going to be this immigrant refuge built in Astoria, which was not part of New York City yet, but the city had some jurisdiction over. And the residents of the community found out about it and they went and they destroyed the building. At least this is the story that I've read. So the city hastily had to come up with another location where there wouldn't be this kind of community opposition to immigrants. And so they purchased land on Wards island, and by 1848, they built this immigrant refuge and hospital. And it was a lot of the services that ended up being located on Ellis island, but it was there until the 1890s. So it lasted for quite some time.

Wards island has had the state immigrant refugees, asylums, psychiatric hospitals. What does Ward's island, what does it represent about how historically New Yorker has treated its most marginalized residents?

Well, I think what I found and what we see from this history is that the NIMBY phenomenon that.

Not in my backyard.

Yeah. That we've started to talk about, you know, in the last 50 years or so, really, it goes back, you know, 200 years. And part of it is that New York is a densely populated place. And people have reacted to groups that they think are. That they don't want to have near them, whether they be immigrants from Ireland and Germany in those days or from South America now. And they are looking for a place to send people so they can not have community opposition. So Blackwell island, which became Roosevelt island, was another place where that happened. But, but, you know, it no longer has any such institutions. Wars island still does. Very much so.

Let's take a few calls. This is Herbert who is calling in from the Bronx. Herbert, thank you for taking the time to call all of it. Today you are on the air.

[Alison Stewart]

Good afternoon. Oh, yeah, good afternoon, ma'am.

[Philip Llanos]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

I was, I was a patient at one time in Wards island in the Kirby Building and then in mctc, they called it Manhattan Children Treatment Center. I was there from about 1970 to about 1975.

[Philip Llanos]

And what was your experience like? Yeah, what was your experience like?

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, yeah, well, what I can remember, you got to remember I was a child at that time. Yeah, I grew like, basically kind of grew up over there. It was good. I mean, the people that worked, they treated as good. You know, they tried to do the best. You know, a lot of us would just throw away.

[Philip Llanos]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

So, you know, kind of hard. But, you know, it's. It was a good place. You know, I can't say they beat me or, you know, a lot of people was on medication there. So everybody walking around the days somewhat. Then again, this was in the 70s, though, not today. I don't know what's going on over here today. I know they got shelters over there or something else, some drug programs, but I'm talking about 70, early 70s.

[Philip Llanos]

Herbert, thank you so much for calling in. We really appreciate you sharing your experience. Let's talk to Kathy who is calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Kathy, you're on the air.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, hi. I just wondered. I would say, yes, social work intern at Hunter College in 1970. And I worked under a social work supervisor and I witnessed a lobotomy there or lobotomy hearing is what I'm trying to say. And my point is that at that time all it was ever known for was a state mental institution. And you know, once you were committed there, you couldn't get out. I mean, it was just. But it wasn't anything more than that. When did it change that all these other facilities started showing up on.

[Philip Llanos]

Yeah, when these people started showing up, Philip. Yeah, let's.

Yeah, so I can speak to that. Yeah. So some of the expansion happened in the early 70s. And so the previous Caller mentioned Manhattan Children's Psychiatric Center. So that was a new building that was built in the early 70s. And then what really changed the character of it was the opening of the first homeless shelter in the keener building in 1980. And that really was part of the story of New York City's response to increases in homelessness that were being observed in the Bowery where the traditional men's shelter had been. And the Keener Building was named in the Callahan consent decree that came out of the lawsuit from the Coalition of the Homeless, what became the Coalition of the Homeless of the City and the State. And it was named as one of three places that people could live.

Was it the right for men to have a place to stay?

Yeah, so it was a right to shelter that we still have to this day in New York City. And so then the opening of the Keener Building was the beginning of that expansion. And where the Clark Thomas Shelter is now is the same structure that used to house Manhattan Children's Psychiatric center, which was closed in the 90s under Governor Pataky.

Here's a question for you. This is one I had too. Isn't Randall's island and Ward island one island? What's the difference? And when and why did they divide them?

Well, they were two separate islands. They were separated by what's called the Little Hell Gate Passage. And Robert Moses built a bridge between them after he created the overpass for the Triborough Bridge. And then they were joined by landfill sometime in the early 70s. The landfill conjoined part aspect was there when I was living there. But they were never referred to as a single island then. The whole thing of referring to them as a single island really started in the 2000s. And I believe that that was connected to kind of this rebranding initiative from the Randalls Island park alliance, which has funds to support the upgrading of the park, you know, facilities on the island.

You brought up Robert Moses. Everything goes back to Robert Moses at some point when he took an interest in Ward's Island, I think it was in the 1920s. What was his original vision for Ward's Island?

Right. So his vision was that all institutions would be gone, that the buildings would be raised, that 100% of the island would become parkland. So that was his vision at the time. There were the hospital was not far from its high point of census of about 8,000. So there had to be a dramatic reduction of the number of people and removal of people to other institutions. His idea was that they would go to Suffolk county to other places. Far away from New York City that they didn't need to be close to where they came from.

Let's take another call. This is Teresa calling from Midtown. Hi, Theresa. Thank you so much for calling all of it. You're on the air.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi. Thank you. I have some positive things to say about Ward's Island. First of all, I actually had to Google it because I had not heard of it. I know it as Randall's island. So I was. You learn something new every day. I live in Astoria, and I'm an avid biker, and I often bike over the Triborough Bridge, and I pass through the entire island, and there's beautiful waterfront parks there, and it's really pretty. And then I get what I know now is the Ward's Island Bridge that goes to East 105th street in Manhattan and continue my ride. So I always knew it as Randall's island. And there's the stadium now, Icon Stadium. But I was unaware of all the other aspects of it that I'm hearing now. So thank you for that.

[Philip Llanos]

It's interesting. Thank you so much for calling. It's what you call the dual identity. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah, I mean, so this caller speaks to the fact that it is this beautiful place, and that's something that I emphasize in the book as well. And that. And this place that New Yorkers can come to ride a bike and to play sports is a wonderful thing. Something that I speak about in the book is that the people who live there should also be able to use those facilities, and they have a right to it as much as any other New Yorkers. There's an unjust situation where they're kind of fenced in. And so the one thing that they sort of have there that could be theirs because they have nothing else there is something they're kept from, and I think that that's unjust.

My guest is Philip Yanos, professor of psychology at John Jay College of Criminal justice and CUNY Graduate Center. We're speaking about his book, Exiles in New York City Warehousing the Marginalized on Ward's Island. Let's take a call from Susanna from the East Village, who I think has a question for you. Philip. Hi, Susanna, what's your question?

[Alison Stewart]

Hi, Alison. Thank you for taking my call. My grandmother was interned at or was institutionalized at wars island for a good 20 years of her life, which pretty much took away her life. I mean, that's what they did in the 60s and 70s. They just put people away. Exactly what you're saying. They Would never see the light of day again. And we visited her, you know, I visited her as a child. I was probably about the same age as you. I'm wondering, can we get, how can we access her record?

[Philip Llanos]

Do you know if that's possible?

I do not. I can say that the library, the archives of New York State. Right. So that are held in Albany, do have a system by which you can request records of patients. And that was an option that I considered in when I was reviewing records in various places. So it is possible that a family member could do that. I was told that the process is quite lengthy and involved, but those records do exist and could potentially be requested by a family member. So I would look online under the New York State Archives, and those are held in. In Albany, not far from the Capitol.

Good luck to you. Susanna, let's talk to Diana from the Upper west side. Thank you so much for taking the time to call, all of it.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, thank you, Allison, and thanks, Professor. I'm really interested in reading your book. Looking forward to it. I wanted to mention that I was an intern on Wards island at, we called it Manhattan state in the mid-90s. And the comment I want to make is that I just. I learned so much from the people that I saw there. Had a chance to get to know quite well in one on one connections through testing, observation, assessments, et cetera, as well as groups and others. And what I gleaned, what I learned, it just feels like it. I just want to honor the people that I had the privilege of working with out there, but meeting the patients and when I left the internship, you know, there was a. There was a keen awareness on my part that the folks that I saw there, that had been there for such a long while and would continue to be, that this really is, you know, the word you use, a warehouse for them, that there really was. This was sort of the last stop. And when I drive by, we live in Manhattan, as was mentioned, and when I drive by to go out to the island, to go to the airport, I always point out and mention to my kids that this is what this is, what this is. And you know, let's not forget. Let's just not forget. So thanks, Allison. And thanks, Professor. I appreciate.

[Philip Llanos]

Appreciate you, Diana. You closed the book with seven proposals for a better future for Wards island, including public transportation access, consolidating hospital buildings, constructing housing. Which of these proposals do you think are the most urgent or could be the most immediately effective?

Right. Well, they're all kind of connected. So largely what I'm saying is that we have this area where the campus of Manhattan Psychiatric center is, where it's actually zoned residential and we could build housing there. The hospital itself is underused. There's only about 400 people between the three buildings, including Kirby and MPC, and they could all be in one building. We could demolish two of them and build affordable housing. That could be a place where people who live in the shelters currently could live. There could also be affordable housing for other low income New Yorkers and we could also create amenities because currently there are none. So there's no grocery store, there's no pharmacy, there's no place to eat. Those things could be included as part of the plan. And if we increase the frequency of the M35 bus, which is the only way on and off the island currently, and had routes that went to Queens and the Bronx, which are possible because of the Triborough Bridge, then that would increase access to it and it would be good for everyone who's visiting it too. They would be able to get there more easily from other places and they would also be able to take advantage of these amenities and interact with people who live there and see that these are human beings.

We've been speaking about the book Exiles in New York City Warehousing the Marginalized on Ward's Island. It is by Philip Jenos. Philip has a book event at the Word up community bookshop at 2113Amsterdam Ave Saturday, May 3rd at 3pm thank you so much for joining us on WNYC.

Once again, thanks so much for having me. Very great honor.

Coming up, we'll take a hands on approach to history. Max Miller runs the YouTube channel Tasting History. It's now a cookbook of the same name and he joins us to talk about his passion for history. That's coming up after the news.

[Alison Stewart]

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[Philip Llanos]

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