Podcast Summary: All Of It – "A Horse Trainer's Unexpected Friendship With Queen Elizabeth"

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guests: Monty Roberts (Horse Trainer), Andrea Nevins (Director, "The Cowboy and the Queen")
Date: September 6, 2024

Overview

This episode of "All Of It" delves into the remarkable life and humane horse training philosophy of Monty Roberts, as explored in the new documentary The Cowboy and the Queen. The film chronicles Roberts’ pioneering nonviolent methods, his impact on the horse world, and his deep, unlikely friendship with Queen Elizabeth II—brought together by a mutual respect for animals and a desire for compassion over control. The conversation also addresses broader themes of empathy, healing from trauma, and applying lessons from horses to human relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Monty Roberts' Unconventional Path to Documentary Fame

• Andrea Nevins’ Approach ([03:04]):

  • Andrea initially approached Monty for a brief interview, soon realizing the richness and depth of his story warranted a documentary.
  • Quote: "His memory is just extraordinary. So he's a master storyteller and that was really a gift." — Andrea Nevins (03:04)

• Monty's Reaction ([01:42]):

  • Monty was initially unaware a documentary was being made, thinking it was just another farm visit.
  • His modesty is highlighted, but his memorable life stories became central to the film.

2. Rejecting the "Horse Whisperer" Label & Embracing Nonviolence

• Monty's Philosophy ([03:36]):

  • Dislikes the term "horse whisperer." Defines his work through a behavioral science lens—"horse gentling," not breaking.
  • Quote: "No violence. Violence free. That got me thrown out of four halls of fame..." — Monty Roberts (03:48)

• Industry Backlash ([03:48]):

  • His techniques were initially rejected by traditionalists who believed in the necessity of dominance and violence.

• Why Show the Violence? ([04:50]):

  • Andrea includes difficult footage to contextualize just how revolutionary Roberts' methods were, helping viewers grasp why the Queen sought his expertise.
  • Quote: "It's really hard to talk about the magic that Monty does without showing what it was that he was coming from." — Andrea Nevins (04:50)

3. Early Trauma and Its Transformative Power

• Monty’s Upbringing ([05:49]):

  • Reveals he was subjected to the same violence as the horses—having suffered 72 prepubescent fractures as a child, creating empathy for the animals.
  • A pivotal childhood moment involved bonding with a wild horse, only for his father to kill it—a trauma that propelled his search for gentler methods.
  • Quote: "The horses began to teach me that violence is never the answer. Violence is always for the violator..." — Monty Roberts (08:48)

• Turning Point ([10:14]):

  • Andrea sees this trauma as the moment that crystallized Monty's bond with horses and commitment to humane training.

4. Monty’s Methods in Practice: Human and Animal Empathy

• Monty Teaching ([12:38]):

  • He emphasizes diaphragmatic breathing and calmness—skills that relax the horse and foster connection.
  • Quote: "When you are relaxed, the horse knows exactly what your intention is...Learn how to diaphragmatically breathe." — Monty Roberts (12:38)

• The Role of Human Behavior ([13:45]):

  • Roberts expands the idea beyond species, seeing nonviolence as universally important: "It's everybody coming together and realizing that being fair and eliminating violence is the answer to all things to get along." (13:45)

• Andrea’s Observations ([14:32]):

  • She describes observing Monty's animal communication as "pure magic," seeing even wild deer respond to his patient and gentle demeanor.

5. The Queen, Their Friendship, and Shared History

• Shared Values ([15:51]):

  • The Queen was drawn to Monty's compassion for animals, even asking him to work with her dogs and advise Prince Philip.
  • She requested his help with post-traumatic stress in veterans, demonstrating her commitment to both animals and people.
  • Quote: "She found out about [my methods], saw the video...then that's what called her over there. That's a miracle. It just doesn't happen..." — Monty Roberts (16:56)

• Unlikely Bond ([18:04]):

  • Despite their backgrounds—American West ruggedness and British monarchy—they connected through childhood experiences during WWII and a shared sanctuary in animals amid trauma.
  • Quote: "Both of them were watching the war from places where it was very important...to have their animals around. That early experience...was something that united them later on..." — Andrea Nevins (18:04)

6. Extending Lessons to Human Healing

• Work with Trauma Survivors ([19:54]):
  • Monty’s work with horses extends to clinics for people with PTSD, aiding first responders and veterans.
  • He advocates for viewing trauma as an "injury" (PTSI), not a "disorder"—because injuries can heal.
  • Quote: "Disorders don't heal...When you go to war and you come back with a abnormality, that is an injury." — Monty Roberts (21:12)

7. Controversy and Detractors

• Journalistic Balance ([21:58]):
  • The film includes voices critical of Monty, in the interest of fairness and letting the audience make up their own minds.

8. Universal Application: Lessons in Communication and Empathy

• Takeaways for Listeners ([22:52]):
  • Andrea hopes the documentary's audience—whether or not they are "horse people"—learn the power of calm, open, and empathetic approaches to even the most intimidating situations or individuals.
  • Quote: "Anybody can use that idea of calming yourself down when you meet somebody new, particularly somebody new who might frighten you..." — Andrea Nevins (22:52)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Nonviolence in Horse Training:
  "No violence. Violence free. That got me thrown out of four halls of fame..."
  — Monty Roberts (03:48)

• On Empathy Born of Trauma:
  "The horses began to teach me that violence is never the answer. Violence is always for the violator, and seldom, if ever, it's for the person that's being violated, the victim."
  — Monty Roberts (08:48)

• On Connection Across Differences:
  "Both of them were watching the war from places where it was very important them to have their animals around. And that early experience of loneliness, fear and animals was something that united them..."
  — Andrea Nevins (18:04)

• On Universal Lessons:
  "It's everybody coming together and realizing that being fair and eliminating violence is the answer to all things to get along."
  — Monty Roberts (13:45)

• On Calming Presence:
  "Anybody can use that idea of calming yourself down when you meet somebody new, particularly somebody new who might frighten you..."
  — Andrea Nevins (22:52)

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:42 | Monty describes the surprising genesis of the documentary and his initial reaction | | 03:36 | Host asks about the "horse whisperer" label; Monty outlines his philosophy | | 05:49 | Monty recounts childhood trauma and observation of horse training violence | | 07:21 | Pivotal moment with wild mustang—bonding, followed by tragic outcome | | 10:14 | Andrea explains why that childhood moment was transformative | | 12:38 | Monty teaches about diaphragmatic breathing and its role in connecting with horses | | 13:45 | Monty discusses the universal application of nonviolence | | 15:51 | Monty describes the Queen’s interest in his work and their shared animal empathy | | 18:04 | Andrea on the unlikely connection between Monty and the Queen | | 19:54 | Monty’s work with trauma survivors, and the reframing of PTSD as an "injury" | | 21:58 | Andrea discusses the inclusion of critics/detractors in the documentary | | 22:52 | Andrea shares universal takeaways for those not familiar with horses |

Tone and Style

The conversation is empathetic, candid, and frequently peppered with awe at Monty’s gentle but radical work—not only with horses but also human trauma. Both guests underscore the larger lesson: embracing compassion, calm, and nonviolence can bridge even the widest divides, whether between species or individuals from opposite sides of the world.

For those who have not listened:
This episode offers a compassionate look at what true connection and understanding between humans and animals—and indeed, between humans themselves—can look like. Monty Roberts’ life's work is both a challenge to tradition and an inspiring example of empathy's power to change lives and cross improbable boundaries, including building a friendship with a queen.