All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode Summary: "A New Biopic About Model Turned WWII Journalist Lee Miller"

Date: September 25, 2024

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart welcomes actor and producer Kate Winslet and director Ellen Kuras to discuss their new film Lee, a biographical drama about the trailblazing model-turned-war-photographer Lee Miller. The conversation delves into Miller’s legacy as a war correspondent, the challenges and inspirations behind bringing her story to screen, and the profound impact of her photography on documenting the traumas of World War II. Through personal anecdotes, behind-the-scenes insights, and reflections on women’s untold histories, Winslet and Kuras illuminate both the making of the film and the enduring relevance of Lee Miller’s work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origins of the Film & Lee Miller’s Rediscovery

• How the Project Began
  • Kate Winslet recounts a serendipitous moment involving the purchase of an antique kitchen table that once belonged to the Penrose family—the same family Miller joined.

    “When it arrived in my home, honestly, if tables could talk, it really has a hum about it… and I thought, Lee Miller. I wonder why no one has made a film about her. And that was the beginning of my journey.” – Kate Winslet (04:01)

  • Winslet describes building trust and creative partnership with Miller’s son, Anthony Penrose, the keeper of her archive.
• The Secrecy of Lee Miller’s Legacy
  • Miller’s war photography was largely hidden until discovered by her family after her death in 1977.

War Photography Through a Woman’s Lens

• Winslet’s Admiration of War Photographers
  • Winslet expresses gratitude for the risks undertaken by war photographers, highlighting Miller's integrity and courage as a “flawed, middle-aged woman” who went into war zones.

    “I was utterly overwhelmed at her integrity and her courage.” – Kate Winslet (02:35)

• Kuras on Lee as an Artist
  • Miller’s roots in surrealism influenced her unconventional approach to documenting war.

    “Lee was originally a surrealist... experimenting with, you know, putting different objects together to create new meaning.” – Ellen Kuras (03:16)

The Challenges of Independent, Female-Led Filmmaking

• Collaboration and Resilience
  • Winslet and Kuras detail the difficulties of funding and shooting an independent film focused on a woman’s perspective, and the necessity of a collaborative, tenacious spirit.

    “The determination not to give up was really at the core of the making of this piece.” – Kate Winslet (07:51)

• Assembling the Team
  • Winslet leveraged her industry connections to bring in actors like Marion Cotillard and secured a team committed to the film’s vision across three countries.

Bringing Female Gaze and Authenticity to Screen

• On Keeping the Story Female-Centered
  • Winslet emphasizes the necessity of having a female director for a story so rooted in “female heart and soul.”

    “At a certain point, when something becomes so female in its heart, in its soul and in its courage... you know that you need to keep it in a place that is honorable and is in line with one's own morals.” – Kate Winslet (13:18)

• Kuras on Cinematic Techniques
  • Her documentary background informed her focus on character perspective and intimacy, foregrounding Lee’s emotional journey over spectacle.

    “We backgrounded all the sounds of the explosions... so we can bring the sound of her heart and her breathing closer together. So immediately we’re saying we’re with her as we go through the story.” – Ellen Kuras (16:18)

Lee Miller: War, Trauma, and Witness

• Portraying Miller’s Motivation and Trauma
  • Winslet discusses focusing the film on the “defining decade” when Miller grew into her identity, shedding reductive labels and assuming her role as a witness to history.

    “This was a flawed middle aged woman who had already lived a lot of life... Lee was someone who knew it was her duty to bear witness.” – Kate Winslet (17:21)

  • Miller’s struggle with PTSD is referenced not only through family accounts but also in the recreated scene of her destroying some of her own harrowing negatives:

    “Almost physically trying to cut them out of herself, cut them out of her head.” – Kate Winslet (22:11)

Notable Moments from Production

• Filming the War Scenes
  • The production started with ambitious firefight scenes. Winslet injured her back, drawing an ironic, if painful, parallel to Miller’s own wartime injuries.

    “Whilst I was in agony, Lee herself famously was in excruciating back pain throughout the entire experience of being in Europe during World War II.” – Kate Winslet (10:27)

• Recreating the Famous 'Hitler's Bathtub' Photo
  • Kuras explains the painstaking recreation and the intent behind capturing Miller’s act “almost like a performance,” subverting gender and power in that symbolic moment:

    “She was deliberately making this, you know, almost like a performance to get this photo. She understood the meaning of all of the elements of going into this photo.” – Ellen Kuras (23:54)

Notable Quotes

• On the Spirit of Lee Miller:

  “She was spectacular at taking people under her wing, especially younger women. And we made this film in the spirit of who Lee was—made it with integrity, resilience, compassion, determination, and an enormous amount of courage.”
  — Kate Winslet (07:34)

• On the Emotional Cost of Witnessing:

  “If no one can see them, then I must destroy them. Almost physically trying to cut them out of herself, cut them out of her head.”
  — Kate Winslet, retelling a story about Miller destroying her negatives (22:11)

• On the Hidden Legacy of Women in Photography:

  “There’s something extraordinarily heroic, I believe, about women who don’t ask to be in the limelight and don’t try and show the things that they did and created. Because, of course, that’s not the point. The point is about making sure that no one’s story ever goes untold.”
  — Kate Winslet (26:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:28] Winslet speaks on learning about war photography and discovering Lee Miller’s “integrity and courage.”
• [04:01] The kitchen table and how it sparked the film’s origin story.
• [06:18] Kuras and Winslet discuss the challenges of making a women-driven independent film.
• [09:19] First day of filming war scenes, Winslet’s injury, and its echo of Miller’s own struggles.
• [11:19] Kuras shares her journey as a hard-of-hearing director and the impact on her artistic perspective.
• [14:50] Kuras explains how her documentary background influenced the film’s visual point of view.
• [17:21] Winslet on focusing the film on Miller’s defining decade and her responsibility as a “visual voice” for victims.
• [20:15] Dramatic scene from the film: Lee versus Vogue over the destruction of negatives.
• [22:11] Winslet recounts Miller’s emotional act of cutting her own negatives.
• [23:54] Kuras details the recreation of Miller’s famous Hitler’s bathtub photograph.
• [26:10] Winslet on the humble, often hidden legacy of women like Miller and Vivian Maier.

Memorable Moments

• Winslet’s embrace of the literal and metaphorical “table” at the film’s heart—symbolizing both the community Miller cultivated and the archival nature of her story.
• The candid acknowledgment of industry challenges faced by female filmmakers, and the deep, practical collaboration required to bring this film to fruition.
• The revelation of Miller’s drastic measure to destroy some of her own work as a manifestation of trauma—relayed through a rare firsthand account.
• The parallel between Lee Miller’s experiences and director Ellen Kuras’s own journey navigating hearing loss in a demanding industry.

Concluding Thoughts

This episode offers a rich behind-the-scenes look into the making of Lee, anchoring the conversation in the untold histories of women who bear witness to war and the artistic, personal, and ethical complexities of representing trauma. Winslet and Kuras highlight the continued importance of women’s perspectives in history, art, and filmmaking, and the courage required not just to witness but to insist on being heard.