← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
A New Documentary About Marlee Matlin's Trailblazing Life and Career
00:24:57
Marlee Matlin made history in 1987 as the first Deaf actor to win an Academy Award.
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- [00:00]
Alison Stewart
Our state has changed a lot in.
- [00:02]
Marlee Matlin
The last 140 years.
- [00:05]
Alison Stewart
We know because MultiCare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier.
- [00:13]
Marlee Matlin
That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering.
- [00:16]
Alison Stewart
With local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org this is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I am really grateful that you're here. On today's show, actor and singer Renee Elise Goldsberry will join us for a listening party for her solo album who I really Am to Professor Dana Williams about her new book, Tony at the iconic writer's legendary editorship. And we'll celebrate the 20th anniversary of IFC Center. It's today and we want to know what standout films that you've seen there. That's our plan. So let's get this started with Oscar winning actor Marlee Matlin and director Shoshanna Stern. For decades, actor and advocate Marlee Matlin was the first and only deaf actor to win an Academy Award. She took home the Oscar in 1987 for her role in Children of a Lesser God. But in 2022, that all changed when her film Coda was awarded Best Picture and Marley's co star Troy Kotzer won for Best Supporting Actor. That progress is a testament to the decades Marlee has spent fighting for access, opportunity and respect for deaf actors and for the deaf community at large. Marley's life and work are now the subject of a new documentary, Marlee Not Alone Anymore. It's directed by Shoshana Stern, who's a fellow deaf actor. The film tells the story of how Marley, who grew up in a family that never fluently learned asl, decided to follow her dreams. In the process, she became an advocate for the deaf community, even when that community sometimes disagreed with her choices. Marlee Matlin, Not Alone Anymore is in theaters starting Friday, June 20, and I am joined now by Marlee Matlin and director Shoshana Stern. Marlee and Shoshana will be using American Sign Language. The voices you hear are their interpreters. Marlee the subtitle of the film is Not Alone Anymore. Why did you make that the subtitle?
- [02:49]
Marlee Matlin
Actually, I didn't make that the subtitle for this documentary. It was our director, Shoshana Stern who did that. She took it from this idea. I'm Not Alone Anymore from the comments that I made backstage after the Film Coda won the Academy Award for Best Picture, awards for Best Picture, as well as other awards. I wasn't able to speak my piece or deliver my remarks to the audience after the producers accepted the award. So I took the opportunity backstage to mention that at the end of my speech, which I was going to say outside, I'm not alone Anymore. So that's actually her question, not mine.
- [03:36]
Alison Stewart
Shoshana, why did you name your film Not Alone Anymore?
- [03:42]
Shoshana Stern
Great question. Thank you so much for asking. In the documentary, I really enjoyed showing certain moments over and over again from different viewpoints. The Oscars where she Marley, wins her Best Actress award, and also when Coda wins. And I wanted to show it from different perspectives. So when Koda wins Best Picture, I was watching that with several other deaf people. I went to a viewing party, and I was so excited. All of us were watching. We're waiting for what Marlee would say. She would represent our community and what she would say. And unfortunately, that did not happen. So, of course, I wanted to know, like, what Marlee would have said had she had the opportunity. So I saw her speech backstage, and that really stuck with me when she said, I'm not alone Anymore. It really represents the experience of 90 to 95% of deaf people, because that percentage of deaf people are born into hearing families, meaning that most of those families don't sign. So this deaf child is all alone until they find others who give them access to language and they find their people in the world. So I felt like this was one other layer that the film offers that hasn't been told, like, that part of her story that's really worth reframing. That's why we needed to have that title.
- [05:16]
Alison Stewart
That's interesting, Marlee, because in the film, it goes into your family's history, how you were deaf when you were 18 months old. Your parents, we never really know why, and they never really got into asl. Why do you think your family didn't get involved with asl?
- [05:35]
Marlee Matlin
Well, when I was born, I had hearing. And then at 18 months old, for some inexplicable reason, I became deaf. And that was a shock for my parents and my family, obviously. And they had never even met a deaf child before. They'd never seen sign language before. They had never even known that there were deaf children out there. Maybe they did, but they didn't expect to have one. So it was a big change in their life, obviously, as parents and as a family. So that being said, I never said that. They never learned to sign. I never said That I said that I had wished they had the ability to sign more fluently. But then again, it's really not their fault for not signing fluently at the time. Because back then, it just wasn't acknowledged about the importance of communication with your deaf child back then, as it is today. As it is today. Because every day, because today everybody's talking about it. Back then, they were just trying to figure out what's the best mode of communication for your child, as in terms of the child and how to raise the child. My parents, to be fair, did care about where I would be educated, where and how I would make friends, to make sure that I was always raised with love and respect, and that they did. They didn't deprive me of those important things, knowing how important education and social circle and all that stuff. But yet, at the same time, they thought that I was. Well, I was very independent, by the way, that I would have been able to talk to anyone, regardless of whether they understood me or not or they could sign or not. I just put it out there. And they probably thought, well, okay, she's fine. She's okay. And there was no need for that extra layer of knowing how to communicate fluently because they thought, okay, she speaks well. That's good. And I signed, well, okay, that's good. And they did. And what was called home signs. And they did know the Alphabet, and they did know some signs. But again, it wasn't like it is today, where there are fluent signers, parents and children.
- [08:09]
Shoshana Stern
And I think what I've tried to.
- [08:11]
Marlee Matlin
Explain in the documentary, and they're not. I want to make sure that they're not portrayed as villains in the film.
- [08:16]
Shoshana Stern
Right. And what I tried to explain in the documentary was that, like this. Like the answer of why. I think it's easy to kind of pinpoint somebody and say, oh, well, that's clearly because of this reason to blame somebody for this problem. But most of these families love and care for their child, and they want what's best for their deaf child. And you can see that in Marley's family. You know, I met Marley's mom when I was 7, and she took care of me all day, and she would sign to me at a young age. And so that's a really rare experience for hearing parents to learn sign language. But it was the systematic. It was the system's message to parents back in the day, as you see in the film, that your child needs to be fixed. They always heard if your child doesn't speak, then they'll never Have a normal life. So that is the message that you'll see in the documentary that was portrayed to families like Marley's parents. So this explains why parents didn't learn sign language. Not because they didn't love their child. They do absolutely love their child. But it was the clinical model that.
- [09:20]
Marlee Matlin
Would present the doctors.
- [09:22]
Shoshana Stern
Yeah, there's a lot of money in buying hearing aids and all the technology training. Yes, all of those things. So there's a reason for this outcome, and I think that was really important for us to frame that in the film. And also, deaf people like the two of us mask very well, you know, our existence in the world. We both can lip read fairly well, which doesn't mean that we catch every word, because that would be impossible to do.
- [09:48]
Marlee Matlin
So.
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Shoshana Stern
But, you know, we'll oftentimes smile as though we understand, but maybe we're catching a few words and then we're stringing them together at 100 miles an hour to kind of figure out based on context. And maybe two or three minutes later, we're like, oh, that is what they were really talking about. And at that point, we could probably answer appropriately, but we don't have access to everything that's going on around us. And so there are things that. That your parents won't talk to you about when you are hearing and your child is deaf. You know, people assume that, you know, they have access to this information somewhere else, but that's where deaf children tend to fall behind. It's because they don't have access to that incidental information, you know, when they, you know, what happens when you date, what happens when you're in a relationship, what happens with drinking and all the other things that parents are supposed to share but oftentimes are not comfortable sharing with their child. And, you know, their child may never learn about these things from their parents unless the parent has a very direct conversation about these very specific topics with that child. And that's why there's a lot of, you know, there's a high percentage of substance abuse within the deaf community and domestic violence as well.
- [10:58]
Marlee Matlin
Three out of four.
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Shoshana Stern
Yeah. Three out of four people within the community will expense experience some form of addiction or domestic violence, even if the parents are able to sign fluently. So because they don't have access to information that is incidental around in our world. And so it's these direct conversations that just don't happen.
- [11:20]
Alison Stewart
My guests are actor and advocate Marlee Matlin and director Shoshanna Stern. We're talking about their new documentary, Marlee Matlin not alone anymore. I feel silly asking this because I know after that last answer, Marla, why you picked Shoshanna to direct this documentary. But why did you pick Shoshanna to direct this documentary? What was it about her, about her style?
- [11:47]
Marlee Matlin
Well, when I was approached by American Masters for PBS to feature my story in an episode of their show, I thought, okay, first of all, I'm very honored. Thank you. And at the same time, I thought to myself, what would it look like if I just put my life story out there for them to film? How would it be framed? How would. Well, I'm thinking about. My trust for people in the industry is not necessarily strong for obvious reasons. When they asked me, however, I immediately knew what I have to say. I got a little defensive. Not defensive, but protective. And I immediately said, okay, I'll do it on one condition. It has to be directed by a deaf woman. And they said, okay, fine, they consider that. And they said it looked like, oh, it sort of took them back. They never thought of this idea of having a deaf woman direct. So I said, oh, well, actually, they asked me who. And I immediately thought of Shoshana because of all the years that I've known her and the times that we had a chance to work together, particularly on her show this close, having the chance to observe her, watching her work, seeing her work ethics on set, I knew in my gut that she had the ability to direct. Whether it was television or film we were talking about didn't matter, even a stage production. So I threw out her name and they were like, oh, okay, has she directed before? And I said, no. So I thought it was a no brainer. She has that deaf perspective that she would completely understand where I was coming from. And it was as simple as that.
- [13:33]
Alison Stewart
You didn't have to explain yourself about certain things.
- [13:37]
Marlee Matlin
Exactly. I didn't have to educate her. I'm so tired of having to educate. Listen, don't get me wrong, I don't mind having to do it at some time, at some point in conversations that I have with people, but to do it, you know, a story about me and not have them understand where I'm coming from. Having Shoshanna was. It had to be as perfect as could be, and she was the perfect choice.
- [14:01]
Alison Stewart
What was the difference for you? Shoshanna being the director versus being an actor? Because you're an actor as well.
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Shoshana Stern
Well, the biggest reason why I wanted to become an actor was because I saw Marlee win her Oscar. Seeing her on television, I knew I was deaf before then. I come from a deaf family. You know, we're like one of the 5% that have, like, generationally deaf family members. And watching Marlee win, I would imagine myself, you know, when I read a book or watch television, I would imagine myself in that story, but as a hearing person, because I had never seen a real life deaf person on the screen before. And then to see her win, I literally wanted to see myself in. In those stories. And that's why I became an actor. And I. I mean, it's not easy at all to become an actor for anyone, especially for a deaf woman. But when I once I got on set to look around at the, you know, like the entire world behind the camera, like, I never saw one deaf person behind the camera in any role. So when I got a script, I realized that the script wasn't written from our perspective. It's another person's perspective of how deaf people should be or how they are. You know, I would collaborate with some writers that would listen to my feedback, and some wouldn't. And I realized at that time that, like, wow, it really matters who tells the story. So when, you know, I had a meeting to direct this project, it was like, wow, this is a lot of confidence they're placing in me. Trust that Marley has in me, like, and I wasn't going to take that trust lightly. Absolutely not. And so I had never seen a deaf person direct a television show or a feature until I watched Marlee direct an episode of Accused. And that was such a privilege to be in that space, you know. You know, the film talks a lot about weight, the responsibility of being the first. And so I felt like, what can I do to make it easier for those who come after me? Like, I have to push. I have to push form a little bit, because.
- [16:14]
Marlee Matlin
A little bit.
- [16:16]
Shoshana Stern
As much as you can, Marlee, as much as you can. Because, like, who else will if not me? So when I was doing my research for this documentary, I didn't realize my mind just was completely blown because all the documentaries have been told from the lens of being sound based, because they're made by hearing people for a hearing audience. Like, it's a hearing person as the subject created by hearing people for a hearing audience. So the rhythm of having voiceovers and all of those things that are very hearing centric. So then I think, like, so as a deaf person directing another deaf person, we use a visual language. So how's that going to work? So the first people that I talked to about this project, they're like, wow, that's going to Be a challenge, you know, because, well, I mean, what you're describing, Shoshana, hasn't been done before. And I'm like, okay, well, that's just not how the way documentaries are done is what I was told. And I thought, okay, okay, I'll set that aside. Thank you so much for your time, experts. And then I started finding people who saw it the same way I did. They saw it as an opportunity, right? An opportunity to reframe, to reinvent the form of documentaries. What would a visual documentary look like? Starting with that question, what would voiceovers look like using split screens? Or what would we use? How would we use closed captioning or subtitles differently? How would the soundscape be designed from our perspective as deaf women? Because Marlee uses hearing aids. We both use hearing aids. So we would do, like, word surgery in the sound mixing room. And then we would create things that would sound like words, but they're not actually words spoken, just noise. But it sounds like words because that's how hearing aids mimic speech. So they're not actual real sounds that your brain will recognize. But we were able to do that in the sound mixing room. So it was really like, I mean, mind blowing. A mind blowing experience to be able to be in this space as a director.
- [18:11]
Marlee Matlin
You'll probably be immersed in the mind of a deaf person when you watch the documentary.
- [18:16]
Shoshana Stern
Like, we wanted it to be a sensory experience. Like the experience for the audience to be a sensory experience so they could totally focus, understand Marley's story, to understand how she receives information, how she has access to it, and then how she perceives the world as a result.
- [18:32]
Alison Stewart
My guests are actor and advocate Marlee Matlin and director Shoshanna Stern. We're talking about their new documentary, Marlee Matlin Not Alone Anymore. It will be in theaters this Friday, June 20th. Marlee, I know you're the protagonist of the documentary, but taking yourself out of it, who else was a mentor who was really important to you in your career and also important to you as a human being?
- [18:59]
Marlee Matlin
Well, in the documentary, it's mentioned that Henry Winkler, whom everybody knows and loves, was probably, and at one time, and still probably one of the most famous people in the world. But I can also tell you that there was a teacher that I had for fourth, fifth, and sixth grades who really believed in me as well, in many ways, but not in the same level as Henry did. It was just completely different perspectives. She allowed me just to be. By that, I mean, I was a student who may have been struggling with writing English. She had the patience to be able to sit down with me and explain. And she never looked down on me or she never seemed bothered or thought whatever I was doing wasn't enough. She became a family friend of ours as well. And that's a teacher that I'll never forget. And then there were some others that I've had. Well, I've had, you know, that have impacted my life to eventually become who I am today. One example. Listen, I've been sober for 38 years, so as much as I hate to say this, but William Hurt did introduce me to sobriety. I don't think if that hadn't happened, I would be here. He was the one who went to rehab first the day after Christmas. And I didn't. I mean, I didn't even know what rehab was. That's an example of the language deprivation that I was experiencing. I didn't know that there was even help out there for people who were drug addicts like myself. So it was William Hurt who introduced me to it, only because he was going himself. And when I visited him there at the Betty Ford center for family Week, as they call it, I realized, oh, yeah. I mean, I knew I had a problem, so that's why I stopped everything. The day before I flew up to see him, I knew that they would bust me. The counselors would bust me and look at me and say, oh, yes, and you, Marley. And so I was sort of getting ready in my own way. But then it was there that we decided, we as me and the counselor. By that, I mean it would be best for me to go there for my rehab when I went in for family Week. So what I did was, look, sobriety is the number one priority for me because it's about self care. The idea of having a mentor. Well, I wouldn't call William Hurd a mentor. I would just say that he introduced me to sobriety and that I'm always grateful for that, for that. But my mom certainly introduced me to theater. She pushed me into theater as much as I wanted to, because she saw me signing songs at summer camp when I was 7 years old. And then when I was 8, she took me to a place called the center on Deafness, where we had deaf kids performing alongside hearing siblings. And that was my first with other deaf kids. And I stayed there from the ages of 8 to 15. So it was my mom who really saw the potential in me to act, to sign songs, and I'm grateful for that. So, again, there are different people in different parts of my life that have inspired me as mentors in some way or one way or another. But Henry Winkler was really the one who pushed me hard and said, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise. When you, when people say no, just move on. He. He really pushed me to move forward. And I am the actress I am today because of him.
- [22:40]
Alison Stewart
Shoshana, what did you learn about Marlee that you didn't know before the documentary? Before direct of the documentary?
- [22:46]
Shoshana Stern
I think I. Well, I thought at least that I knew most of her story because she's been so open for such a long time. She has a memoir that's come out and we've had lots of conversations over the years. We've been friends for 24 years, so we've known each other and worked together. But what surprises me is her bravery and her curiosity, like her desire to do better, to change, like to grow. That. The conversation that we had in the documentary, I think about it and I just, I get a little misty eyed even now. It's this moment that she realizes that not only did she not have the resources, but she didn't have the words to describe that lack of resources that hers. There was this moment where she looked at her like she considered the situation she was in. And then she responded to my question and said, you're right, I didn't have a word for that. And I loved her level of authenticity and honesty, her emotional intelligence. When it comes to herself, she's just so aware. Most people would immediately put up a defensive mechanism and say, no, no, not me. But she's open. And to have accomplished as much as she has accomplished and to be that open, that combined with the bravery and her openness and willingness, it's just, it's so moving.
- [24:16]
Marlee Matlin
Well, my family in the dock said I was stubborn. Certainly I'm stubborn and I have a temper. When it comes to something that I don't like and I show it like, hello, I'm not going to be somebody who bottles up their emotions. I'm always open and asking questions, what to say. For example, what are you talking about? What's so funny? What's he saying? I'm always, always, as she mentioned, I'm very curious about what's going around me in my environment, what's in front of me or back of me or side to side of me. That's who I am. Some people misunderstand me of who I am, but that's just me. Why be someone who tends to hide or.
- [25:06]
Shoshana Stern
Well, I think you're hungry, right?
- [25:09]
Marlee Matlin
I still am. I still am.
- [25:11]
Shoshana Stern
I didn't say you were. You are. You are hungry. Marlee, like, still, I think most deaf people are hungry for the words.
- [25:18]
Marlee Matlin
It's about communication. It's about communication. It's about being transparent.
- [25:22]
Alison Stewart
Marlee Matlin and Shoshana Stern, thanks for being with us.
- [25:26]
Marlee Matlin
Thank you.
- [25:27]
Shoshana Stern
Thank you so much.
- [25:28]
Marlee Matlin
Thank you.
- [25:29]
Alison Stewart
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