Alison Stewart (2:34)

Greg, when was the first time you went to Raul's?

Greg Oliver (2:37)

I met Kareem around 2010. I was working on a documentary about the Lemmy of the Motorhead, of the band Motorhead, you know, the heavy metal icon. And I met Kareem when he was helping me on that. And as, like, we returned our gear, and then he's like, you want to get dinner at my dad's restaurant? And I'd never heard of Ravels before. And so I think I got a steak au poivre. And all of a sudden I was like, I like this guy.

Alison Stewart (2:57)

At one point in making the documentary, Greg, that you realize, maybe Kareem needs some help.

Unknown (3:03)

How can I get involved?

Greg Oliver (3:04)

Yeah, I mean, he was shooting stuff. Like he said, when we'd have gear, we would shoot some stuff and help him. And then it was like his dream to get this movie going. And then I watched him in real time get sucked into the restaurant. And it was becoming like the film was just languishing, waiting around for him to have time, and it never did. So I'm like, let's interview you. Just. Cause this is turning. And it wasn't like a big moment. It was just like, let's just get your story on camera so we have it. And that's sort of. You see that in the film, the first time he sat down. He's very nervous on camera.

Unknown (3:32)

So nervous.

Greg Oliver (3:33)

Yeah. That was like 2012 or 2013.

Unknown (3:36)

What was that like to be inter. What was that like to be interviewed?

Karim Raul (3:41)

It was. It was. It was very strange. I would. I was definitely not thinking that I would be in front of the camera. I was. You know, that was never the intention. I was making the movie. And all of a sudden I was just getting more and more involved in the restaurant, and I just became sort of the elephant in the room in the sense that it was just we couldn't not interview me. And all of a sudden it just seemed like I was becoming more and more. More and more a part of the story. And then all of a sudden, I was, you know, one of the main characters in it.

Unknown (4:15)

We are discussing a new documentary, Raul's A New York Story, about the beloved French bistro right here in Soho, 0.2 miles away from the studio. By the way, it's screening now as part of the Tribeca Festival. My guests are Karim Raul and Greg Oliver. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What memories do you have of Raul's? Maybe you were a Soho resident in the 70s and 80s when it first opened. Maybe used to work at Raul's too. Or maybe you're still a regular. We want to hear your Raul stories. Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. You can call in, join us on air, or you can text that number as well. So the film goes all the way back to a restaurant that was owned in France.

Karim Raul (4:58)

Yep.

Unknown (4:59)

All right. What do you know about the history of your family's restaurant in France?

Karim Raul (5:04)

They lived in that restaurant, meaning there was a. They had, you know, their living space upstairs and then they. My great grandfather was living in that building. They opened up a cement factory across the street. So they decided to put a couple tables out in front and serve, you know, little. Little food, sandwiches or whatever out front and. And wine or whatever. And so it just got started like that.

Unknown (5:32)

Why did you think, Greg, that was a good place to start the film?

Greg Oliver (5:37)

I mean, it was. I felt like, you know, you meet, you get his father, like, started. Raoul. So we're just trying to give the history of, like, this, how this. It sort of accidentally happened with the grandparents and the cement factory. It felt like none of this was really planned, but sort of inspired by each generation. And so I think we wanted to go back and just hear, like, where did Serge come from? That made him get to the point where he just ended up in New York opening up a restaurant.

Unknown (5:57)

So I thought it was interesting looking at the building and thinking of that as a restaurant. How did you feel when you looked at that building?

Karim Raul (6:05)

Yeah, like I said, I mean, it was. It was a. It's a house, you know, it is a house.

Unknown (6:09)

It's a house.

Karim Raul (6:10)

Yeah. With, you know, the. Became that had a little restaurant in the bottom and, you know, now I live on top of the restaurant. It's like the same thing.

Unknown (6:20)

It's interesting though, Karim, because your dad, he worked for French television initially, it wasn't in the restaurant business. What were his career aspirations initially?

Karim Raul (6:31)

Well, in the beginning, before tv, he was working in French radio. So he was working French radio and then started working French television when he came to the states in 62. And then he was doing a documentary on the Maasai and got sick, and they put him on sick leave. At the time, my uncle was working at the palace as a chef, and my father decided, well, we'll take these six months and open up a restaurant. But I think the intention, at least in his mind, was to open up the place, sort of give it to my uncle. Then go back to work at French tv.

Unknown (7:08)

It didn't really work out that way. Exactly.

Karim Raul (7:10)

It didn't work out that way.

Unknown (7:11)

Greg, part of the documentary is also about New York, and it's about soho and how it's changed dramatically. Give us a glimpse of what SoHo was like in the 70s.

Greg Oliver (7:23)

I think somebody in the film says it was very Funky in the 70s. And it was. It seemed like it was totally empty. And we interviewed this architect that was the first guy to flip lofts to artists. And so he described it as completely empty, completely barren. And they were basically giving away floors in soho for, like, I think, was it five grand a pop or something? It was something insane where you're.

Unknown (7:43)

And no taxes, too.

Greg Oliver (7:44)

No taxes for 10 years. And so I think it was very empty. And it was literally the artists that came in first. And then Raul's was one of the first restaurants in the area besides, what was that place called? Food. And there was Fenelli's, you know, so Fenelli's is, like, been there older. But I think it was pretty interesting back then.

Unknown (7:59)

As you learned about the history of soho, you knew about it, but as you sort of saw it and heard people describe it, did you understand what Rauls would mean to soho once it came?

Karim Raul (8:12)

No, I don't think anybody did. I think, you know, SoHo sort of changed and evolved around it. And I feel like Raul's sort of, I think, you know, more or less stayed the same. So, no, I don't think anybody had any intention of having Raul's having an effect on soho at all.

Unknown (8:34)

Let's take a call. This is Claude calling in from Jersey City. Hi, Claude, thanks for making time to call, all of it. You're on the air.

Claude (8:43)

Hi, how are you?

Unknown (8:44)

I'm doing great.

Claude (8:46)

Great. So, you know, I'm. I'm native New Yorker, Had a business on Erickson Place. Pretty big business, experienced, you know, the whole SoHo scene as it was developing, and Rauls was always there. So I had my 30th birthday at Raul's, and I met my. My wife there.

Unknown (9:16)

Huh.

Claude (9:16)

So that was kind of cool. So I just wanted to share that with you because she was very, very pretty. I had a whole bunch of people there, and it was a lot of fun. And she had this. This panda backpack, which. Which got my attention. Raul's is. Is. Is always will be. And when it was just, you know, its lonesome self as a restaurant in the neighborhood, that wasn't developed, always went there.

Unknown (9:53)

Thanks so much for calling in, Greg. Can you describe what a Night at Raoul's was like in the 70s and.

Greg Oliver (9:58)

80S, not firsthand, but from your research, it seemed like it was a pretty. I imagine it was amazing in the 70s when it was quiet. It's like that place. I love Rauls when it's chill, which is never. But I think in the 70s it was probably pretty and they were looking, trying to figure out how to make a buck. And then the 80s, it all really turned with Rob Jones. This maitre d came in and introduced drag at night. And I think it's not in the film, but Serge and Guy said they would have the regular operating hours, they would go home and when they'd come back, they'd see that they somehow made a lot more money overnight than they did during the day. And they found out that there was this drag shows happening and they brought in all this like really fun energy and it turned into like a nightclub vibe. And the 80s, you know, the stuff you expect with the dancing and the spandex was really happening. So it feels like an amazing era that I only get to experienced by our archival footage.

Alison Stewart (10:46)

Let's talk to Mac, who's calling in from Tribeca. Hi, Mack, thanks for calling, all of it.

Mack (10:51)

Hi, thanks for calling. Well, you've just given me some additional context. The first night we went to Raoul's, we walked in and unexpectedly found all the waiters in drag and had the most wonderful time. This is in the 90s. And we spent the whole meal trying to talk about who else we could bring there and surprise. And a short time later, a visitor from out of town came and we swept in and found everybody in just normal waiter attire. And we thought, well, maybe later, maybe later. We kept waiting and dragging the meal out and when we were about to leave, I actually asked the waiter, what's going on? We were just here a week ago, so. And everyone was in drag and he laughed and he said that the, the manager was leaving and they all decided to do that spontaneously and it was a one time thing. But I definitely think it's, it's worth happening, maybe even on a surprise basis, as the previous caller just described.

Alison Stewart (11:47)

Thanks so much for calling in. We appreciate it. We're talking about the new documentary A New York Story with its co directors Karim Raul and Greg Oliver. So you interviewed several chefs in this film. You've got Daniel Bilaud, Tom Colicchio, Andrew Zimmerman's in it. He's great. What did they tell you about why Raul's is special?

Karim Raul (12:14)

They didn't, you know, all they told me was not to change anything. So they said, don't change anything.

Alison Stewart (12:19)

That was so funny. That is so funny. In the documentary, constantly, everybody, don't change anything. Don't change anything.

Karim Raul (12:27)

Yeah, but other than that, that was their, you know, their biggest advice. Just don't change anything. But, you know, why it. You know, why it is the way it is? You know, I don't know. There's abstraction to that question. It's, you know, I think it's. It's just. It's. It's got to be a labor of love. And I think there's sort of, you know, somebody being there all the time and really loving the place is what, you know, what I think comes through.

Alison Stewart (12:56)

How was it, Greg?

Unknown (12:57)

How was it an incubator for other chefs?

Greg Oliver (13:00)

I mean, I'm guessing maybe it was more the timing. I was trying to think that. So all the chefs that are in the film, any film I make, I try to have folks that are in there for firsthand stories, not just because they're celebrity. Like, Jean Georges was friends with Serge, and Danielle went vacationing with Serge and Guy, or they all worked together at some point. And Thomas Keller walked in there and worked at Raul's.

Unknown (13:19)

Right?

Claudia (13:19)

Yeah.

Greg Oliver (13:20)

And so we're not just trying to shove it full of celebrity things, but. Sorry, what was the question again?

Unknown (13:24)

I think, like, how is it an incubator for these things?

Greg Oliver (13:26)

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think it was like the era of, like, this thing starting in New York of, like, an affordable French cuisine, because it seems like it was described as a very fancy uptown, and this is the first time it was downtown and casual. And I think they were all attracted to that at the time. Right. And it was because it was one of a kind at the time. And all of a sudden, all you have these amazing people hovering around the same spot. So I think that's because of Guy and Surge.

Karim Raul (13:47)

Right. Also, it was, you know, it was opened in 75, so it was open just before Danielle got to. Got to New York, just before Jean Georges got to New York. So I think it was just the. Because, you know, they were one generation older. It was just the natural first stop to go there, see if you could find a job or whatever it was, you know, go talk to Serge Raul then, you know, he'll connect you with whoever.

Unknown (14:13)

We're talking about the new documentary, Raul's A New York Story. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What are your memories of Raul's? Maybe you were a Soho resident in the 70s and 80s when it first opened. Maybe you even worked there. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll have quick break. This is all of it.

Alison Stewart (14:42)

You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests in studio are Karim Raul and Greg Oliver. They are the co directors of a new documentary called Raul's A New York Story about the beloved French bistro right here in soho. It's screening now as part of of the Tribeca Festival. Greg, we've talked about Serge quite a bit. The other half of the partnership is his brother Guy, who trained as a chef. How would you describe the dynamic between Serge and Guy?

Greg Oliver (15:12)

I don't know. Guy's one of my favorite characters in real life and in the movie because he's so open about his feelings. And it's like, that's really important for a documentary, but it does. It feels like there was a lot of, like, brotherly, like, complications in their relationship. And Serge just said, hey, let's open this restaurant. And Gui was working at very fancy places. And Serge brought him down to SoHo that no one knew about in the 70s, and he went with it and ended up being, like, this chef that sort of changed everything for soho. But it does feel like I've seen them together a lot, like when we were working, and I don't remember them ever, like, really chatting a lot. They just hang out. They're just there kind of quiet. That's also. Serge is very quiet, sort of stoic. But I don't know. I love Guy, and I love his cooking, and I love what he did.

Alison Stewart (15:55)

Karim, There was a disagreement between Guy.

Unknown (15:57)

And Serge over Thomas Keller when he.

Alison Stewart (16:00)

First came to the restaurant.

Unknown (16:03)

How would you categorize that disagreement that they had? Because it seemed about one thing, but then it seemed about something a little bigger.

Karim Raul (16:11)

Yeah, you know, Guy started working at Raoul's when he was 25 years old. He was sort of ascending at the time in his career. He was working at the Palace. He had worked at a bunch of other sort of famous French restaurants at the time. And so when my father opened Raul's, it was, you know, it was. It was a little bit of a step back for Guy, in a sense, because they couldn't afford to do the type of food that they were doing uptown. And so it by, almost by necessity, it became a bistro. So they started cooking, you know, food that he was familiar with from, you know, back in Alsace, where they were from. And so, you know, when my father Opened Raquel with Thomas. It was, you know, Guy was sort of still stuck at Raul's, and I think, you know, that, you know, that was a little bit of a point of not contention. But he had decided that, you know, he'd be done cooking at Raul's. So that was when Guy sort of left the kitchen.

Unknown (17:12)

Let's take a call from Claudia calling from SoHo. Hey, Claudia, thanks for calling, all of it.

Claudia (17:18)

Oh, hello. I just wanted to say I moved to Soho in 1974, and I used to go to that location. It was an Italian restaurant at the time. And then Raoul's came in. When I met my husband, we would spend a great deal of time going to Raouls. And my husband was basically Alsatian. His name was Jacques, and it was our favorite place in Buenos Aires. And my husband passed away some years ago. And I have not been there on a regular basis anymore. But it was just such a pleasure to be there. It was loose. The food was great. The crowd was easy. And I do want to give one shout out to the maitre d, Eddie, who I knew a long time and really was enormous, enormously fond of. And when I do have wonderful people come to visit me, that is my destination. If I can get in and if Eddie's around, usually I can. I still love it, and it's great, especially in the garden.

Unknown (18:32)

Thank you so much for calling in. You nodded when she said Eddie?

Karim Raul (18:36)

Yep. He's still there going on 48 years.

Unknown (18:39)

This year she said something interesting. It was an Italian restaurant.

Karim Raul (18:43)

Yep. Before it was a restaurant called Luizi's. Before. Yep.

Unknown (18:46)

And why do you think your dad decided on that location? Is it just that it was available?

Karim Raul (18:52)

I don't think they could afford anything uptown at the time. They were. He knew several people who were living down here because of French TV cameramen and people like that. And so I think that the physical space really drew him. I think because of this, you know, we talked about in the movie, he had this filmmaker's eye. And I thought, you know, I think that he thought it was just a great set. And so that's how it happened.

Unknown (19:20)

It's interesting she mentioned Eddie. You nodded your head. It seems like people continue to work there, employees continue to work there. They're part of the family. Why do you think that is?

Greg Oliver (19:32)

I mean, I think Kareem's answer is usually the word money.

Unknown (19:35)

Money.

Greg Oliver (19:37)

Aside from money, it's like a special place. Once you're in. Once you walk in those doors, it feel you are in an amazing place that hasn't changed in a long time. And the faces are part of that and the people are part of it. And it's like, I could walk in there on, like, a brunch when it's a different crew, and I'm like, oh, I don't recognize anybody, and I'll back slowly out and disappear.

Karim Raul (19:54)

But, yeah, I mean, it's really like a family. And I know everybody. You know, every restaurant person says that. But in this case, it really is. I mean, I've been working with the same people for my whole life, and I think that the customers are the same way. I mean, it's hard to get into Raul's because we have such a regular group of customers. And I think once you're sort of in, then I think it becomes like, you know, a very cozy sort of family vibe in there.

Alison Stewart (20:28)

But at one point, you didn't want anything to do with Raouls Karim, what was going on.

Karim Raul (20:32)

That's true. I was a cameraman in a sort of a different life. I was out in Indonesia making a film and minding my own business. And then I got a call saying that my father had just had a stroke, had to come back to New York. And I thought that, well, you know, there's a couple of things that, you know, a couple issues I'd like to sort of iron out before I go back. I thought I'd be dealing with them for, you know, for a year or two. And here we are 15 years later.

Alison Stewart (21:06)

Greg, how did you observe the way we're talking about you? Like, you're not here. Kareem, how did you deserve the way Kareem's relationship with the restaurant changed over.

Unknown (21:16)

The years of making this film?

Greg Oliver (21:17)

I sort of saw him. I feel like when I first met Kareem, the restaurant was like this wilder place with no wild, wild world where no one was in charge. Cause I think Guy and Serge were off doing their own things, and it didn't feel like anybody was in charge. So when Kareem and I would come in there, I'd see people looking at him out of the corner of their eye, like, uh, oh, here comes the owner's son. And then over the years, I saw it just sort of start changing. And it was like. I think he was like this building this respect of everybody. Like, you're gonna take a minute here, but I'm gonna be running the joint. And then now he's. I feel like he turned into Serge in the end of our film. I feel like he walks across the street, looks like Serge Walking into the restaurant now it's. Now he's. You know, it was definitely like a change over the years, though. You could watch that over, like, 10 years.

Alison Stewart (21:59)

We got a text that says, I was in my 20s and a yuppie in the 80s with a few dollars to spend.

Unknown (22:05)

America was going through a culinary revolution, and so was I.

Alison Stewart (22:08)

What a fabulous time to eat out before corporate concepts took over fine dining.

Unknown (22:13)

I couldn't get booked into the back.

Alison Stewart (22:15)

Room, but I did enjoy many a.

Unknown (22:16)

Meal at Raul's, the restaurant.

Alison Stewart (22:18)

And Florent represented my kind of delectable.

Unknown (22:22)

French dining, which is interesting because Florent's in the documentary as well. And he's the one person who's like, you gotta change, but they won't let you change. How did you decide to handle that, Karim?

Alison Stewart (22:36)

Because you people expect the same.

Karim Raul (22:39)

But, well, I think that's part of the secret, is that you. It's constantly changing. You have to change in order to be relevant. You have to change. And the secret is to change without anybody noticing.

Unknown (22:57)

Tell me about the burger. The burger was your idea, apparently. Apparently. And people were against the burger initially.

Karim Raul (23:02)

I like the burger. I know. It sort of created a monster. I was bugging the chef for a while to get a burger. He was like, no way. Eventually, he gave in, and he said, well, you know, let's just do it at the bar. I said, fine, because Mineta Tavern had already had their burger, and when you would go in there, it would just be, you know, the whole restaurant would just be eating burgers. So we didn't. That. We didn't want that to happen. So we said, well, we'll start it at the bar. And we said, well, how many, you know, how many do you want to start with? And he said, well, there's 12. There's 12 buns in a pack. We'll just start with 12. So that's what we did. And we put. And we didn't know how to, you know, how were we going to advertise this? So we said, well, we don't want to put stanchions on the bar. We'll write it, you know, on the back in the mirror. There was no room back there. And so I just told Franco just, you know, just verbal it. And so that's what we did. And then, like two weeks later, Josh Ozerski came in from Esquire magazine and called it the best burger in America.

Unknown (24:06)

You said that with such a disdain. America.

Karim Raul (24:08)

It was all downhill from there. And so now there's 12 people lined up every day to get a burger when we open.

Unknown (24:17)

Kareem, excuse me. Raul's had to go through some immense changes. What did they have to do physically to the building, Craig?

Greg Oliver (24:26)

Well, from what I saw was like, I couldn't even get Kareem on the phone for the past few years because he was just dealing with all this construction. And sadly, one of the callers talked about the atrium in the back. That's gone. It had to get ripped out. The kitchen was used to walk through the back of the restaurant to the kitchen because the bathrooms are upstairs. The spiral stairs, they're a nightmare for anybody. They have to get moved downstairs. So then the whole back room got dug up, and then the kitchen had to go underground for some weird reason. It's just tons of things happen, and as soon as Kareem took over, they all had to happen, so.

Unknown (24:56)

Oh, that must have been really horrifying for you. Yeah, there's no other way to put it.

Karim Raul (25:02)

Yeah, it's all coming to a close, which, you know, again with the film, it just seems like the renovations are done, the film is done. It seems like a whole new chapter now.

Unknown (25:15)

One more thing before we look forward is during COVID How did you survive?

Karim Raul (25:22)

Oh, my God. Covid was crazy. I mean, in my mind, it was, let's just try to open up as quickly as possible. So we were closed with everybody else during those six mandatory weeks, I think. And then as soon as we could open, we started selling sandwiches. And then we got on Gold Belly, and we're shipping poivre sauce and steaks and burgers out to everybody. And then once we could open inside, we did it. So it was just, you know, we were. I think we were one of the first restaurants ever opened in the neighborhood. And I really wanted to open for the neighborhood, too, because there's just, you know, nobody was open.

Unknown (26:05)

What do you think about how the neighborhood has changed?

Karim Raul (26:10)

I used to play street hockey with these Portuguese kids across the street once in a while, and we used to move for cars every, like, 15 minutes. And now you can't even cross the street.

Unknown (26:23)

Yeah.

Karim Raul (26:25)

And, you know, like Florent says in the movie, there's good and bad because, you know, it's great because it creates jobs. There's more foot traffic than there ever has been. We're busier than we ever have been. But it's true that there's the essence. You know, the artists that created the neighborhood are no longer there because they can't afford to be there. And. And, of course, that changes things.

Unknown (26:52)

Let's talk to Lisa. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for calling, all of it.

Lisa (26:57)

Hi, how are you? Thank you so much. I'm just out and about running errands, and I am listening to this conversation and my whole body is like having this sense memory experience. I love, love, love. Rawls, my number one favorite. I've been going there for forever and I used to go. I have so many occasions to celebrate there, and it's just amazing. But we used to go late at night, you know, back in the day, and we used to go late at night and all of a sudden all the lights would go out and a spotlight would come on and, you know, there was a microphone. And then you'd look over and there would be this, like, amazing performer, like, on the bar and then dancing and walking across the and singing and I mean, the place would go wild. It was so exciting.

Unknown (27:52)

It sounded like it was a whole lot of fun. You should check out the documentary A New York Story. I have been speaking with its co directors Karim Raul and Greg Oliver. Thanks for coming to the studio.

Karim Raul (28:05)

Thank you.

Greg Oliver (28:06)

Thanks for having us.

Karim Raul (28:06)

Thank you.

Unknown (28:07)

There's more, all of it on the way. We've got live music from Mark Ribeau coming your way.