Podcast Summary: All Of It - "A New Gallery Show for 'The Drag Queens of New York'"

Host: David Fuerst (in for Alison Stewart)
Guests: Julian Fleischer (author, curator), Charles Busch (drag performer, playwright)
Airdate: October 28, 2025

Episode Theme

This episode commemorates the 30th anniversary of The Drag Queens of New York: An Illustrated Field Guide with a discussion of its lasting cultural impact, the diversity of NYC’s drag scene in the 1990s, and a new gallery exhibition showcasing rarely seen photos, memorabilia, and interviews from that pivotal era in drag. The guests reflect on how drag has evolved over the decades—both what’s been gained and what’s been lost—as it’s moved from the underground into the mainstream.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of the Book and Exhibition

• Julian Fleischer recounts his discovery of the East Village drag scene in the early ’90s:
  • He stumbled into clubs like Pyramid and Boy Bar and was inspired to document the creativity he saw ([01:55]).
  • The book emerged from a serendipitous conversation with an editor at Riverhead, which resulted in a contract and three years of research and writing.
  • Quote (Julian Fleischer):
    “I wandered into a couple of the best nightclubs in the area...and discovered these incredible drag performances. ...My friend, she was an editor at Riverhead, she said, you should write a book about this scene.” ([01:55])

2. The Book’s Initial Reception and Lasting Influence

• Both guests agree the book made a modest splash when first released, but its influence has grown over time as the public’s appreciation of drag has changed ([02:51]).
  • Quote (Charles Busch):
    “It's really good.” ([03:09])
  • Quote (Julian Fleischer):
    “I think I made you take it. I put it in your purse.” (about giving a copy to Charles, [02:59])

3. Diversity and Fiefdoms of NYC Drag in the 1990s

• Fleischer and Busch recall the varied drag subcultures across cable TV, theater, and nightclubs.
• Each venue had its "little fiefdoms" where certain performers reigned, creating micro-scenes within the scene ([05:18]).
  • Quote (Charles Busch):
    “There was theater drag, these certain different clubs that there were little fiefdoms where these different drag performers reigned...Pre-RuPaul’s Drag Race.” ([05:18])
• The drag world was bubbling up all over NYC, with increasing media attention, but without today’s mainstream visibility ([05:55]).

4. What to Expect at the Exhibition

• The exhibition displays large, film-based portraits by Brooke Williams and unique archival materials such as correspondence, notes, and legal memos from the book’s creation ([06:33]).
  • Visitors get glimpses “behind the scenes,” such as letters from publishers' lawyers about risqué content in the book.
  • Quote (Julian Fleischer):
    “The first thing you'll see is all of the portraits of the queens...gloriously reproduced, 24 inches tall...film has a way of really leaping off the page.” ([06:33-07:20])
  • Quote (Julian Fleischer):
    “Some of the letters from the lawyers, for example, at the publishing house asking me to justify ...‘Joey Arias fellates the microphone.’” ([08:18])

5. Differentiating Drag from Transvestism

• An archival audio segment from Sweetie (Daniel Booth, d. 2017) touches on misconceptions between drag and transvestism ([09:09])
  • Quote (Sweetie):
    “Drag is very much an attitude and style and play acting. ...Transvestism...they get a sexual feeling from putting on the clothes; that’s not for me.” ([09:21])
• Fleischer discusses how the book’s “field guide” format helped clarify these distinctions for readers ([10:03]).

6. Drag’s Shifting Place in the Mainstream

• Drag’s relationship with the mainstream was fraught with patronization and being the butt of jokes on TV ([12:30]).
  • Quote (Charles Busch):
    "You were kind of patronized. If there was any element of drag in what you’re doing, it was...dismissed." ([12:40])
  • Busch reflects on his efforts to be seen as a playwright and actor rather than simply a drag queen, in reaction to critical bias.

7. Then and Now: The Evolution and Commodification of Drag

• Fleischer notes that previously, drag was private and ephemeral—now, it's an international phenomenon ([13:35]).
  • Quote (Julian Fleischer):
    “Now that drag has become an international phenomenon...it's a very different vibe. ...Because it was underground. And underground means underground.” ([13:35])
• Busch worries that while NYC remains a haven, drag is facing renewed persecution elsewhere, referencing anti-drag backlash ([14:28]).

8. The “Field Guide” Approach and How Subjects Were Chosen

• Fleischer selected drag queens to profile based on personal taste and who stood out as essential voices—those who were “undeniably” the heart of the scene ([15:20]).
  • The book and exhibit capture a vibrant cross-section, from the best dancers to lip-synchers, archetypes, and outliers ([16:37]).

9. How the Art Form Has Changed

• The guests discuss how “RuPaul’s Drag Race” has standardized certain elements—splits, death drops, over-the-top performance—but some diversity and “art school” sensibility are lost ([17:00]).
  • Quote (Julian Fleischer):
    "The drag queen scene in the 90s...was like an art school scene. ...A lot of these queens...were creating something very vivid and unique." ([17:31])

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Charles Busch on inclusion in the book:
  “I thought, gee, I don’t want to be a part of it, but I’ll be really upset if I’m not included in it. But isn’t that life anyway?” ([03:33])
• Julian Fleischer, summing up the exhibit’s emotional aim:
  “I want them to feel joy and delight and a sense of wonder and a sense of pride...in what New York is capable of delivering to itself and its people.” ([06:33])
• Charles Busch, recalling mainstream success while bristling at labels:
  “I wrote this play with a wild title, Vampire Lesbians of Sodom. ...And it ran for five years. So that was certainly very mainstream.” ([11:58])
• Sweetie (Daniel Booth) on drag vs. transvestism:
  “Drag is very much an attitude and style and play acting...I really believe transvestism...they get a sexual feeling from putting on the clothes; that's not for me.” ([09:21])

Segment Timestamps

• 00:08 – Introduction & background on The Drag Queens of New York book and exhibit
• 01:55 – Fleischer describes the book's genesis and scene discovery
• 02:51 – Impact and slow-burn influence of the book
• 03:24 – Charles Busch’s introduction to drag, identity tensions
• 05:18 – On the richness and variety of ’90s NYC drag
• 06:33 – What to expect at the exhibition: photos, letters, memorabilia
• 08:59 – Audio clip: Sweetie (Daniel Booth) on drag vs. transvestism
• 10:03 – Fleischer discusses defining drag and book’s structure
• 11:21 – The value of audio archives and the risk of unairable content
• 12:40 – Mainstream drag and cultural patronization; Busch’s frustration with “drag queen” label
• 13:35 – How the exhibit captures drag’s movement from underground to mainstream
• 14:28 – The threats facing drag outside NYC, anti-drag climate
• 15:20 – Fleischer on profiling the right performers; who made the book
• 17:00 – How the art form has changed post-RuPaul: standardization vs. earlier diversity and artistry

Tone and Atmosphere

The episode balances humor, nostalgia, and deep cultural reflection, with guests bantering lightly but also taking care to honor both the gritty, creative past and today’s challenges. The language is direct and affectionate, with an emphasis on pride, artistic ingenuity, and the enduring resilience of New York’s drag community.

For more: The Drag Queens of New York 30th Anniversary exhibition runs through November 30th at Howell Arts, 250 Bowery, NYC.