Podcast Summary – "A New Musical About Barack Obama"
Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Eli Bauman (Writer, Director & Composer), T.J. Wilkins (Plays Barack Obama)
Date: October 20, 2025
Episode Theme: Behind the Scenes of "44: The Musical" — an irreverent and insightful new stage musical about Barack Obama’s presidency
Episode Overview
Alison Stewart sits down with the creative minds behind "44: The Musical," a lively, genre-blending off-Broadway show retelling Barack Obama's journey to the presidency and his time in office. The episode explores the show's conception, artistic choices, and the challenges of translating a beloved and complex public figure into musical theater. Central topics include representation, the balance of humor and pathos, and the ongoing evolution of the production.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Origins of "44: The Musical"
- Eli Bauman’s Inspiration (01:26–02:13)
- Eli worked as a TV writer and was involved in the Obama campaign. The musical was birthed in 2016 in the aftermath of the Trump election as a way to process the political shift:
"In order to not cry, I just started laughing maniacally to myself alone. And I just went, wow, wow. How did this happen? And I guess this musical was my attempt to answer that question." — Eli Bauman (01:41)
- Eli had never written a musical or song before and dove in, leading them to Off-Broadway.
- Eli worked as a TV writer and was involved in the Obama campaign. The musical was birthed in 2016 in the aftermath of the Trump election as a way to process the political shift:
2. Casting Obama
- T.J. Wilkins’s Journey to the Role (02:16–03:54)
- T.J. was an active singer and actor in LA, known for "The Voice."
- Met Eli through a friend and was struck by his humor and the project's potential:
"I told him, I said, man, I don't know what this is, but this is gonna be amazing." — T.J. Wilkins (02:54)
- Early demos had Eli (a “nice Jewish boy”) singing “How Black is Too Black” — highlighting the need for authentic representation.
3. Essence over Imitation: Casting & Characterization
- Philosophy of Casting (04:41–05:40)
- None of the principal actors strongly resemble their real-life counterparts; focus was on capturing “the essence.”
"I actually think the sooner our audience forgets that it’s a real person, the better." — Eli Bauman (05:12)
- Williams on Obama: Speech pattern, walk, body language, and mannerisms—all done in service of character, not caricature.
- None of the principal actors strongly resemble their real-life counterparts; focus was on capturing “the essence.”
4. Portraying Obama: The Actor’s Challenge
- Characterization Process (05:59–07:30)
- Mimicking Obama’s voice/presence but grounding it in realism.
"It’s character instead of caricature." — T.J. Wilkins (06:09)
- Difficulties in channeling Obama’s internal coolness under pressure. T.J. drew on Obama’s memoir “Dreams from My Father” to understand the “man behind the office.”
- Mimicking Obama’s voice/presence but grounding it in realism.
5. Tone: Balancing Irreverence with Seriousness
- Finding the Balance (07:30–09:33)
- Bauman wanted to avoid “middle of the road fluff.” The show purposely addresses tough moments (e.g., Sandy Hook), not shying away from race or tragedy.
"It’s dishonest to avoid it ... artistically, I feel like that's a coward's way out, so I'd rather just own it." — Eli Bauman (08:22)
- Values provoking strong reactions over indifference.
- Bauman wanted to avoid “middle of the road fluff.” The show purposely addresses tough moments (e.g., Sandy Hook), not shying away from race or tragedy.
6. Obama’s Arc in the Musical
- Depicting the President’s Journey (09:33–10:50)
- The play focuses on the journey and burdens of being the first Black president — publicly and privately.
"Toward the beginning of the show, he’s wondering, can I really do this? And we find out, you know, without no pun intended, but yes, he can." — T.J. Wilkins (10:38)
- The play focuses on the journey and burdens of being the first Black president — publicly and privately.
7. Highlight Song: "How Black Is Too Black"
- Spotlight Performance (10:50–12:49)
- Song explores Obama’s identity struggles and public perception in a country with a fraught racial history.
- Notable quote from lyrics (11:19–12:49):
"How black is too black ... The real world isn’t black and white, there’s shades of gray ... Will they ever accept me for who I am?" — (Musical Excerpt, sung by T.J. Wilkins)
8. Choreography and Music
- Creative Collaboration (12:57–14:36)
- James Alsop (Choreographer): Collaborative, builds dances around cast members’ strengths and Black dance history.
- Anthony Brewster (Music Director) & House of Vibe (Band): Integral to the energy and authenticity of the show.
9. Adapting the Show Over Time
- Constant Evolution (14:39–15:48)
- The show is continually updated (“entirely different show, month to month”), though the narrative doesn’t chase the news cycle.
- Aims to stay creatively fresh and responsive.
10. Producer & Audience Reactions
- Gaining Support (15:48–16:50)
- Initially faced some hesitance, but most creative collaborators signed on enthusiastically.
- Surprising crossover appeal, including conservative audiences:
"All I know is once anyone has signed on, they've been converts. ... the proof’s in the pudding." — Eli Bauman (16:37)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "He'll charm the pants off your mama." — Opening jingle lyric (00:25)
- "It was rough going for 44 in those early years, as told from the point of view of Joe Biden as he, quote, 'kind of, sort of remembers it.'" — Alison Stewart (00:31)
- "When you want to do a great job as an actor, you do the work." — T.J. Wilkins (07:29)
- "I was more comfortable with taking on criticism from people of being like, 'well, this white dude doesn't get it,' than being like, 'well, this white dude just avoided it completely.'" — Eli Bauman (09:05)
- “You still have to have dinner with your wife. You still have to be a husband and date and do all of those things, and at the same time, be a leader that everybody’s counting on.” — T.J. Wilkins (10:23)
- "I just want people to feel stuff. That's what's important to me." — Eli Bauman (08:05)
- "There's probably, like, three different musicals just of stuff that's been cut." — Eli Bauman (15:36)
Important Timestamps
- 00:09–01:26: Introduction to the musical, guests introduced
- 01:26–02:13: Bauman’s inspiration for the musical
- 02:16–03:54: T.J. Wilkins’s path to portraying Obama; casting story
- 04:41–05:40: Discussion of casting philosophy, lack of physical similarity
- 05:59–07:30: T.J. on capturing Obama’s essence
- 07:30–09:33: Tone, irreverence, and handling serious issues
- 09:33–10:50: Obama’s journey as portrayed in the musical
- 10:50–12:49: “How Black Is Too Black” song excerpt/performance
- 12:57–14:36: Choreography and music team; rehearsal descriptions
- 14:39–15:48: Evolution of the show over time
- 15:48–16:50: Reception, support, and audience reactions
This engaging episode provides a behind-the-scenes look at “44: The Musical,” its creative risks, and the multidimensional portrait it paints of Barack Obama—and, by extension, of contemporary America.
Whether you’re a theater buff or just curious about the intersection of politics, identity, and the arts, the episode brims with candid insights, humor, and a contagious sense of creative possibility.