All Of It with WNYC — Danez Smith's "Bluff"

Episode Date: August 29, 2024
Guest: Poet and performer Danez Smith
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Focus: Discussing Smith's new poetry collection "Bluff" and its themes of community, trauma, personal growth, and the role of poetry in times of social crisis.

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Danez Smith’s latest poetry collection, Bluff, which explores the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder, personal artistic silence, and the healing power of community. Moving between the collective and the individual, Smith discusses language, form, and the limits and possibilities of poetry, drawing from direct experience in Minneapolis and a deep engagement with Black and queer identity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis and Meaning of "Bluff"

[04:00 - 06:09]

• The title "Bluff" reflects both literal and metaphorical meanings: from place (land, high points) to the act of calling oneself out ("calling out my own bluff").
• Smith crowdsourced the title on Twitter, emphasizing collaboration as part of their creative philosophy.
  • Quote:
    “I wanted to collaborate on the title. So somebody said ‘bluff’ and I’m very grateful… I think I am looking for a higher point to try to see with clear vision the landscape. But also I love Bluff because I think I’m calling out my own bluff.” (Smith, 05:00)

Reading: "Jesus Be A Durag"

[06:09 - 08:14]

• Smith performs "Jesus Be a Durag" after the work of Jamila Woods—a poem that invokes personal and collective Black identity, beauty, spirituality, and protection.
• The reading emphasizes themes of daily survival and self-affirmation:
  • Quote:
    “Let me wake up black and alive and black and alive and thinking I’m cute... No black person will die in this poem, but these waves might hurt somebody. Watch yourself. Swim good. Be happy we sleep with these rags on.” (Smith, 07:01)
• The host reflects on the power and originality of Smith's performance, noting how hearing it transforms the text.

Artistic Silence and Returning to Poetry

[08:51 - 13:07]

• Smith spent two years not writing after "Homie" (2020), explaining that social and political action took precedence over poetry during this period.
  • Quote:
    “My mind wasn’t near poetry or the need for poetry. What was needed was hands and bodies and meals and safety and water. So I didn’t have time to fool with poems.” (Smith, 09:55)
• The silence was initially frightening, but Smith realized this was a natural and necessary pause to process, live, and eventually return with something new and worthwhile to say.
  • Quote:
    "Sometimes the most necessary thing you have to do as an artist is to live and to listen and to exist and to pay attention, and eventually the language will come." (Smith, 12:40)
• Important note on the difference between feeling "nothing to say" and screaming for change—Smith had to pause to determine what was left to say after the urgency of their 20s.

Community and Performance

[14:00 - 16:08]

• Smith discusses their formative experience as a First Wave hip hop and urban arts scholar at the University of Wisconsin, Madison—underlining the role of performance and community in their artistic development.
  • Quote:
    "It made me feel like I was never alone in the art... that's why there's such a big we and a big community in my art." (Smith, 15:09)
• Poetry, for Smith, emerges from collective experience, critique, and support—“it happens in the cipher with an audience.”

Visual and Experimental Poetics

[16:08 - 19:23]

• Bluff uses innovative formatting: visual poems, black boxes, and physical representations of place (e.g., the Rondo neighborhood poem).
• Smith cites a lineage of poets pushing visual forms and advocates for poetry’s evolving multimodality:
  • Quote:
    “I've been preaching this. I think visual poetics is the next frontier for poetry. It makes sense. We have so many different tools at our hands now.” (Smith, 18:41)
• Confesses to using Microsoft Word for visual effects—playful admission about the experimental process.

Returning to Minneapolis and Roots

[19:23 - 22:35]

• Smith describes a renewed attachment to Minneapolis, particularly after being compelled to stay during the pandemic and uprisings.
  • Quote:
    “What happened in the pandemic... that I had to sit down and really confront and be there with my city. I fell back in love in a way that I think it'd be really hard to pull me away from.” (Smith, 21:17)
• Addresses both love and critique for the region, acknowledging both its community strengths and persistent racial inequities.
• Emphasizes the importance of effecting change at the local level.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power and limits of poetry:
  “I am arguing with myself. What is the utility of this thing? How long can I scream about wanting the world to change? ...And yet we must. Yet we must write, yet we must scream, yet we must continue to press towards a future that we know we deserve until it is reached.”
  (Smith, 10:45)

• On artistic silence and creative renewal:
  “Sometimes the most necessary thing you have to do as an artist is to live and to listen and to exist and to pay attention, and eventually the language will come.”
  (Smith, 12:40)

• On rooting in home:
  “My love for here is also because I feel the tangibility of this place, because I know it and it knows me.”
  (Smith, 22:24)

Poetic Highlight: "Anti Poetica"

[23:20 - 24:58]

• Smith reads "Anti Poetica," a forthright accounting of poetry’s limitations in the face of suffering, injustice, and social transformation.
  • Excerpt:
    “There is no poem greater than feeding someone. There is no poem wiser than kindness. There is no poem more important than being good to children... There are no poems in the landlord's name. No poem to admonish the state. No poem with a key to the locks. No poem to free you.”
    (Smith, 23:34)
• Smith shares an "invisible ending" that was ultimately omitted: “All change will happen with our own hands, with our own fire and our own love.” (24:58)

Final Reflections: How Should Readers Engage?

[25:34 - 26:28]

• Smith urges readers—especially those in places of privilege—to question the sources of their comfort and take meaningful action for others.
  • Quote:
    “What is an action that you can take in your daily life to make the world better for somebody else? ...Can we shake our foundation and dream something bigger and newer and freer for everyone?” (Smith, 26:10)

Episode Timestamps

• 04:00 – Origin and meaning of "Bluff"
• 06:09 – Reading: "Jesus Be A Durag"
• 08:51 – Artistic pause and what prompted Smith’s silence
• 14:25 – First Wave hip hop/arts program and influence of community
• 16:08 – Visual poetics, experimental forms, and structure in Bluff
• 19:23 – On Minneapolis, local attachment, and activism
• 23:20 – Reading: "Anti Poetica"
• 25:34 – Smith’s hopes for reader engagement & impact

Concluding Tone & Sign-Off

The conversation between Navadar and Smith is warm, open, and frequently playful, but always deeply engaged with the urgent and pressing concerns of race, community, the limits of art, and the enduring necessity of hope and action. Smith’s readings bring the poems to life, and their reflections remind listeners that the power for change lies within all of us—not just in the poem, but in what we dare to do together.

Host’s closing words:
“Poet, author, and performer Danez Smith’s latest poetry collection, titled Bluff, is out now. Danez, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for those readings and most of all, thank you for this work. We really appreciate it.” (26:28)

For more: Seek out Danez Smith’s Bluff, available now.