All Of It with Alison Stewart, WNYC

Episode: A 'Ragtime' For Our Times

Date: October 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, host Alison Stewart devotes the entire hour to the new Lincoln Center revival of Ragtime, the beloved Broadway musical that explores race, class, immigration, and the fragility of the American dream at the turn of the 20th century. Alison is joined by the show's stars—Joshua Henry (Colehouse Walker Jr.), Caissie Levy (Mother), and Brandon Uranowitz (Tateh)—as well as director Lear Debessinet and actor Ben Levi Ross (Mother’s Younger Brother). Together, they discuss the show's enduring resonance, its challenging themes, the process behind this massive revival, and their personal connections to the material.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Connections to Ragtime and Its Characters

[02:27–06:52]

• Joshua Henry (Colehouse Walker Jr.) shares his first encounter with the character as a 19-year-old in the University of Miami music library, recalling the profound impact of hearing Brian Stokes Mitchell:

  “I remember hearing Brian Stokes Mitchell's voice and just being blown away in wonder that how can a voice move me so entirely... I want to be a part of telling these types of stories.” (02:36–03:08)

  • He didn't feel ready for the role until recently as his life experiences—as a father and son of Jamaican immigrants—deepened his understanding of dreams and hope.

• Caissie Levy (Mother) saw the original Ragtime as a teen in Toronto and doubted she’d ever fit into the show, only to find herself relating deeply to Mother as an immigrant and parent:

  “Now that I'm a mother myself and... also an American, it's been very interesting and of course as a mother to get to tackle this part.” (04:41–05:14)

• Brandon Uranowitz (Tateh) appeared in Ragtime as a child in its Toronto premiere but wasn’t brought to Broadway, an experience he found “devastating and a little bit traumatizing” (05:32). Returning nearly 30 years later as Tateh is a full-circle, healing experience:

  “Coming back... in a role that feels so aligned with who I am, the stories... I want to tell and... represent, just feels right.” (05:32–06:52)

2. The Characters’ Hopes and Realities

[07:02–11:54]

• Colehouse is initially an idealist shaped by Booker T. Washington’s views, believing that hard work can secure the American dream. Reality soon challenges this belief:

  “He is fully bought in... you work hard, you believe in the ideals... and it's possible... but for Black Americans at that time... it comes with an asterisk.” — Joshua Henry (07:09–08:18)

• Tateh flees oppression in Eastern Europe for America’s promise, only to find “the false promise of the American dream” yet clings to hope and joy, embodying the tension between optimism and reality.

  “His idealism is very quickly checked. But he never loses hope... and never loses his joy, despite the bitter reality.” — Brandon Uranowitz (08:25–09:29)

• Mother is quietly ambitious and experiences profound growth:

  “We meet her... being pretty contented... but having deep longing for something bigger than herself... the thing I love most about Mother is that she dares to think about those dreams and hopes at a time when women really weren't allowed to.” — Caissie Levy (09:35–10:29)

• Mother and Father’s marriage reflects present-day divisions:

  “They're growing alongside each other, not always hand in hand, and that makes life difficult, but they both do what they think is right.” — Caissie Levy (10:39–11:18)

3. The Immigrant Experience & History

[11:54–13:59]

• Brandon Uranowitz researched Tateh by diving into family history and visiting New York’s Tenement Museum, drawing from ancestors’ hardships and resilience:

  “Telling a very deeply American story, the promise of America and the wound of America... to play the promise and the pain is deeply satisfying and difficult as well.” (12:50–13:40)

4. Symbols of Status and Progress: The Car

[13:59–15:35]

• Colehouse’s car is a metaphor for social status and progress—desirable but built on exploitation:

  “Owning this car meant... he could provide and could demonstrate that provision to Sarah... we see how that car is built and it's not a pretty thing... such a big idea of progress, but at what cost?” — Joshua Henry (14:13–15:35)

5. Generational Insight: Children as Truth-Tellers

[15:35–18:38]

• Mother’s son serves as a “spreader of truth”. Caissie finds personal connection through her own son, seeing motherhood’s complexity:

  “He’s got a little mysticism to him... he's a truth teller in the show. No matter what we do, we can't seem to stop that truth from coming out.” — Caissie Levy (15:53–17:11)

• Tateh’s daughter remains “anonymous” for safety, laying bare immigrant fear and protective instinct.

  • Caissie underscores how “white privilege” shapes similar parental worries in vastly different ways:

    “If that doesn’t sum up the white privilege versus the immigrant situation... I don’t know what does.” — Caissie Levy (18:31–18:38)

6. Delivering Vocally Demanding Performances

[19:09–21:22]

• Joshua Henry treats sustaining his performance as a lifestyle, not just prep:

  “This is a lifestyle of creative growth... With the right preparation, moments like these... you have to meet the moment with the preparation that you have.” (19:35–21:17)

• Co-stars praise Joshua’s consistency:

  “Joshua always hits the mark, by the way.” — Brandon Uranowitz, Caissie Levy (21:17–21:20)

• Featured musical moment:
  [21:34–22:43]
  Excerpt of Joshua and Nichelle Lewis performing “Wheels of a Dream” on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

7. Why Ragtime Resonates Now

[23:00–26:08]

• Relevance to today's audience:

  “The world is in a troubling spot... we look to art, and Ragtime serves all of that up across the spectrum.” — Caissie Levy (23:00–23:45)

• The show’s “uncanny ability to zoom in on... specific stories and then seamlessly zoom out and show you the universal” makes old narratives newly relevant—immigration, protest, hope, and disenchantment.

  “Tateh’s storyline... can offer a universal glimpse at what's going on and allow people to ask how they can galvanize and make some change.” — Brandon Uranowitz (23:47–25:13)

• Joshua Henry on Ragtime’s emotional force:

  “Seeing exuberance, seeing hope, seeing desperation... you’re invested and you see it in yourself in a very visceral way. That's the glory of Ragtime.” (25:16–26:08)

PART 2: Directing and Orchestrating Ragtime’s Revival

With Director Lear Debessinet and Actor Ben Levi Ross
[26:32–41:58]

1. Why Ragtime Matters in 2025

[27:32–29:11]

• Lear Debessinet:

  “There are ways that [Ragtime] is finding a particularly unique resonance in this moment... you’re seeing these different groups of people... trying to build their life in America at that time, and people pursuing their own version of the American dream... the level of truth in performance... is resonating very deeply with audience members.” (27:39–29:11)

2. Audience Response and Catharsis

[29:11–30:55]

• Ben observed audience members turned “spiritual,” moved to tears, and united in the theater, especially during politically charged times:

  “There is sort of a spiritual-like experience... a space for people to really feel the community that they have around them... by the end of Act One, both of them are weeping and turning to each other.” — Ben Levi Ross (29:27–30:55)

3. Working with a Massive Ensemble

[30:55–32:16]

• The large cast distributes the demanding work and enhances the feeling of shared storytelling:

  “Being able to pop back into the story and know that the story was completely taken care of while I was gone is so wonderful.” — Ben Levi Ross (30:59–32:03)

4. Directorial Challenges: Cohesion and Clarity

[32:16–34:35]

• Lear Debessinet orchestrates clarity by imagining herself as “conductor of emotion” and ensuring every word and gesture is visible and audible—even for the thrust stage’s unique sightlines:

  “My job is to have my own sort of heart and body so connected to the story... to where your eye needs to be and where your ear needs to be.” (33:07)

  • Stage picture, actor placement, and lighting are all calibrated for audience inclusion.

5. Memorable Directorial Advice

[34:35–36:09]

• Ben Levi Ross reflects on Lear’s scalpel-like specificity, especially regarding stage visibility and tone:

  “There is this sort of like scalpel-like specificity... I think about her attention to tone... we need those moments of levity in order for people to also feel comfortable experiencing the depths.” (34:41)

• Lear:

  “I think it's a great evening at the theater just on a purely sort of entertainment level.” (36:09)

6. Radicalization and Contemporary Parallels

[36:26–38:20]

• Ben’s character (Younger Brother): His radicalization parallels real-world activism:

  “I think a lot of white Americans had a reckoning whether it was in their own family units or... online... There is this sort of reflection... And that is kind of—that's how it happens.” (36:50)

7. Handling Sensitive Material

[38:20–41:17]

• Lear Debessinet discusses staging racism, antisemitism, and brutality without sugarcoating, using the heightened reality and musicality to invite empathy and communal processing:

  “A musical is not in the genre of naturalism... it is still inherently a heightened truth... music is holding you up as you experience [painful topics].” (38:40–41:17)

8. What Makes This Revival Special

[41:17–41:58]

• The cast and director invite everyone to experience this “apex” of New York theater, boasting the largest orchestra on Broadway and a cast of rare talent:

  “This is also just New York theater at its apex. We have the largest orchestra on Broadway right now... this is like watching a stage full of that level of performance.” — Ben Levi Ross & Lear Debessinet (41:29–41:58)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Performer Reflections

• “I live like a monk. I don’t anymore. But... I love the idea of moving people’s emotions with my voice.” — Joshua Henry (19:35)
• “Coming back to it 28 years later... just feels right... I’m proud of myself for sticking with it.” — Brandon Uranowitz (06:52)

On Art’s Power

• “We look to art, and Ragtime serves all of that up across the spectrum.” — Caissie Levy (23:00)
• “You’re able to experience these parts of American history that have pain to them... in community.” — Lear Debessinet (38:40)

Storytelling

• “Ragtime... can zoom in on specific stories and seamlessly zoom out and show you the universal.” — Brandon Uranowitz (23:47)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:27–06:52] — Performers share their first experiences with Ragtime
• [07:02–11:54] — Discussion of main characters’ hopes, dreams, and realities
• [13:59–15:35] — Symbolism of the car in Colehouse’s story
• [19:09–21:22] — How performers tackle the show’s musical demands
• [21:34–22:43] — “Wheels of a Dream” performance excerpt
• [23:00–26:08] — Why this revival resonates today
• [27:32–29:11] — Director Lear Debessinet on staging in 2025
• [29:27–30:55] — Audience catharsis and resonance
• [32:16–34:35] — Directing for a large ensemble and complex staging
• [36:26–38:20] — Themes of protest and radicalization, then and now
• [38:20–41:17] — Navigating difficult subjects onstage

Conclusion

This episode of All of It is a testament to the enduring power of Ragtime to reflect the American experience—in all its hope, sorrow, struggle, and possibility. Through firsthand accounts from cast members and behind-the-scenes insight from director Lear Debessinet, the conversation digs deep into why Ragtime still matters, how it resonates with today's audiences, and the passion needed to bring such a panoramic work to life on stage in 2025.

"We want everyone to come and join us... this is New York theater at its apex."
— Ben Levi Ross & Lear Debessinet (41:20)