A 'Ragtime' For Our Times

Summary

All Of It with Alison Stewart, WNYC

Episode: A 'Ragtime' For Our Times

Date: October 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, host Alison Stewart devotes the entire hour to the new Lincoln Center revival of Ragtime, the beloved Broadway musical that explores race, class, immigration, and the fragility of the American dream at the turn of the 20th century. Alison is joined by the show's stars—Joshua Henry (Colehouse Walker Jr.), Caissie Levy (Mother), and Brandon Uranowitz (Tateh)—as well as director Lear Debessinet and actor Ben Levi Ross (Mother’s Younger Brother). Together, they discuss the show's enduring resonance, its challenging themes, the process behind this massive revival, and their personal connections to the material.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Connections to Ragtime and Its Characters

[02:27–06:52]

• Joshua Henry (Colehouse Walker Jr.) shares his first encounter with the character as a 19-year-old in the University of Miami music library, recalling the profound impact of hearing Brian Stokes Mitchell:

  “I remember hearing Brian Stokes Mitchell's voice and just being blown away in wonder that how can a voice move me so entirely... I want to be a part of telling these types of stories.” (02:36–03:08)

  • He didn't feel ready for the role until recently as his life experiences—as a father and son of Jamaican immigrants—deepened his understanding of dreams and hope.

• Caissie Levy (Mother) saw the original Ragtime as a teen in Toronto and doubted she’d ever fit into the show, only to find herself relating deeply to Mother as an immigrant and parent:

  “Now that I'm a mother myself and... also an American, it's been very interesting and of course as a mother to get to tackle this part.” (04:41–05:14)

• Brandon Uranowitz (Tateh) appeared in Ragtime as a child in its Toronto premiere but wasn’t brought to Broadway, an experience he found “devastating and a little bit traumatizing” (05:32). Returning nearly 30 years later as Tateh is a full-circle, healing experience:

  “Coming back... in a role that feels so aligned with who I am, the stories... I want to tell and... represent, just feels right.” (05:32–06:52)

2. The Characters’ Hopes and Realities

[07:02–11:54]

• Colehouse is initially an idealist shaped by Booker T. Washington’s views, believing that hard work can secure the American dream. Reality soon challenges this belief:

  “He is fully bought in... you work hard, you believe in the ideals... and it's possible... but for Black Americans at that time... it comes with an asterisk.” — Joshua Henry (07:09–08:18)

• Tateh flees oppression in Eastern Europe for America’s promise, only to find “the false promise of the American dream” yet clings to hope and joy, embodying the tension between optimism and reality.

  “His idealism is very quickly checked. But he never loses hope... and never loses his joy, despite the bitter reality.” — Brandon Uranowitz (08:25–09:29)

• Mother is quietly ambitious and experiences profound growth:

  “We meet her... being pretty contented... but having deep longing for something bigger than herself... the thing I love most about Mother is that she dares to think about those dreams and hopes at a time when women really weren't allowed to.” — Caissie Levy (09:35–10:29)

• Mother and Father’s marriage reflects present-day divisions:

  “They're growing alongside each other, not always hand in hand, and that makes life difficult, but they both do what they think is right.” — Caissie Levy (10:39–11:18)

3. The Immigrant Experience & History

[11:54–13:59]

• Brandon Uranowitz researched Tateh by diving into family history and visiting New York’s Tenement Museum, drawing from ancestors’ hardships and resilience:

  “Telling a very deeply American story, the promise of America and the wound of America... to play the promise and the pain is deeply satisfying and difficult as well.” (12:50–13:40)

4. Symbols of Status and Progress: The Car

[13:59–15:35]

• Colehouse’s car is a metaphor for social status and progress—desirable but built on exploitation:

  “Owning this car meant... he could provide and could demonstrate that provision to Sarah... we see how that car is built and it's not a pretty thing... such a big idea of progress, but at what cost?” — Joshua Henry (14:13–15:35)

5. Generational Insight: Children as Truth-Tellers

[15:35–18:38]

• Mother’s son serves as a “spreader of truth”. Caissie finds personal connection through her own son, seeing motherhood’s complexity:

  “He’s got a little mysticism to him... he's a truth teller in the show. No matter what we do, we can't seem to stop that truth from coming out.” — Caissie Levy (15:53–17:11)

• Tateh’s daughter remains “anonymous” for safety, laying bare immigrant fear and protective instinct.

  • Caissie underscores how “white privilege” shapes similar parental worries in vastly different ways:

    “If that doesn’t sum up the white privilege versus the immigrant situation... I don’t know what does.” — Caissie Levy (18:31–18:38)

6. Delivering Vocally Demanding Performances

[19:09–21:22]

• Joshua Henry treats sustaining his performance as a lifestyle, not just prep:

  “This is a lifestyle of creative growth... With the right preparation, moments like these... you have to meet the moment with the preparation that you have.” (19:35–21:17)

• Co-stars praise Joshua’s consistency:

  “Joshua always hits the mark, by the way.” — Brandon Uranowitz, Caissie Levy (21:17–21:20)

• Featured musical moment:
  [21:34–22:43]
  Excerpt of Joshua and Nichelle Lewis performing “Wheels of a Dream” on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

7. Why Ragtime Resonates Now

[23:00–26:08]

• Relevance to today's audience:

  “The world is in a troubling spot... we look to art, and Ragtime serves all of that up across the spectrum.” — Caissie Levy (23:00–23:45)

• The show’s “uncanny ability to zoom in on... specific stories and then seamlessly zoom out and show you the universal” makes old narratives newly relevant—immigration, protest, hope, and disenchantment.

  “Tateh’s storyline... can offer a universal glimpse at what's going on and allow people to ask how they can galvanize and make some change.” — Brandon Uranowitz (23:47–25:13)

• Joshua Henry on Ragtime’s emotional force:

  “Seeing exuberance, seeing hope, seeing desperation... you’re invested and you see it in yourself in a very visceral way. That's the glory of Ragtime.” (25:16–26:08)

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PART 2: Directing and Orchestrating Ragtime’s Revival

With Director Lear Debessinet and Actor Ben Levi Ross
[26:32–41:58]

1. Why Ragtime Matters in 2025

[27:32–29:11]

• Lear Debessinet:

  “There are ways that [Ragtime] is finding a particularly unique resonance in this moment... you’re seeing these different groups of people... trying to build their life in America at that time, and people pursuing their own version of the American dream... the level of truth in performance... is resonating very deeply with audience members.” (27:39–29:11)

2. Audience Response and Catharsis

[29:11–30:55]

• Ben observed audience members turned “spiritual,” moved to tears, and united in the theater, especially during politically charged times:

  “There is sort of a spiritual-like experience... a space for people to really feel the community that they have around them... by the end of Act One, both of them are weeping and turning to each other.” — Ben Levi Ross (29:27–30:55)

3. Working with a Massive Ensemble

[30:55–32:16]

• The large cast distributes the demanding work and enhances the feeling of shared storytelling:

  “Being able to pop back into the story and know that the story was completely taken care of while I was gone is so wonderful.” — Ben Levi Ross (30:59–32:03)

4. Directorial Challenges: Cohesion and Clarity

[32:16–34:35]

• Lear Debessinet orchestrates clarity by imagining herself as “conductor of emotion” and ensuring every word and gesture is visible and audible—even for the thrust stage’s unique sightlines:

  “My job is to have my own sort of heart and body so connected to the story... to where your eye needs to be and where your ear needs to be.” (33:07)

  • Stage picture, actor placement, and lighting are all calibrated for audience inclusion.

5. Memorable Directorial Advice

[34:35–36:09]

• Ben Levi Ross reflects on Lear’s scalpel-like specificity, especially regarding stage visibility and tone:

  “There is this sort of like scalpel-like specificity... I think about her attention to tone... we need those moments of levity in order for people to also feel comfortable experiencing the depths.” (34:41)

• Lear:

  “I think it's a great evening at the theater just on a purely sort of entertainment level.” (36:09)

6. Radicalization and Contemporary Parallels

[36:26–38:20]

• Ben’s character (Younger Brother): His radicalization parallels real-world activism:

  “I think a lot of white Americans had a reckoning whether it was in their own family units or... online... There is this sort of reflection... And that is kind of—that's how it happens.” (36:50)

7. Handling Sensitive Material

[38:20–41:17]

• Lear Debessinet discusses staging racism, antisemitism, and brutality without sugarcoating, using the heightened reality and musicality to invite empathy and communal processing:

  “A musical is not in the genre of naturalism... it is still inherently a heightened truth... music is holding you up as you experience [painful topics].” (38:40–41:17)

8. What Makes This Revival Special

[41:17–41:58]

• The cast and director invite everyone to experience this “apex” of New York theater, boasting the largest orchestra on Broadway and a cast of rare talent:

  “This is also just New York theater at its apex. We have the largest orchestra on Broadway right now... this is like watching a stage full of that level of performance.” — Ben Levi Ross & Lear Debessinet (41:29–41:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Performer Reflections

• “I live like a monk. I don’t anymore. But... I love the idea of moving people’s emotions with my voice.” — Joshua Henry (19:35)
• “Coming back to it 28 years later... just feels right... I’m proud of myself for sticking with it.” — Brandon Uranowitz (06:52)

On Art’s Power

• “We look to art, and Ragtime serves all of that up across the spectrum.” — Caissie Levy (23:00)
• “You’re able to experience these parts of American history that have pain to them... in community.” — Lear Debessinet (38:40)

Storytelling

• “Ragtime... can zoom in on specific stories and seamlessly zoom out and show you the universal.” — Brandon Uranowitz (23:47)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:27–06:52] — Performers share their first experiences with Ragtime
• [07:02–11:54] — Discussion of main characters’ hopes, dreams, and realities
• [13:59–15:35] — Symbolism of the car in Colehouse’s story
• [19:09–21:22] — How performers tackle the show’s musical demands
• [21:34–22:43] — “Wheels of a Dream” performance excerpt
• [23:00–26:08] — Why this revival resonates today
• [27:32–29:11] — Director Lear Debessinet on staging in 2025
• [29:27–30:55] — Audience catharsis and resonance
• [32:16–34:35] — Directing for a large ensemble and complex staging
• [36:26–38:20] — Themes of protest and radicalization, then and now
• [38:20–41:17] — Navigating difficult subjects onstage

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Conclusion

This episode of All of It is a testament to the enduring power of Ragtime to reflect the American experience—in all its hope, sorrow, struggle, and possibility. Through firsthand accounts from cast members and behind-the-scenes insight from director Lear Debessinet, the conversation digs deep into why Ragtime still matters, how it resonates with today's audiences, and the passion needed to bring such a panoramic work to life on stage in 2025.

"We want everyone to come and join us... this is New York theater at its apex."
— Ben Levi Ross & Lear Debessinet (41:20)

Transcript

[A]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. Coming up on the show today, actor Ethan Hawke joins us to talk about his role as the legendary lyricist Lorenz Hart in the new film Blue Moon. And we'll speak with Quan Berry about her genre bending novel, the the unveiling. That's later in the show. Now let's get things started with Ragtime. The new Lincoln center revival of Ragtime is big in every sense of the word. It's got a massive ensemble cast featuring some of Broadway's most talented performers. It features powerful songs and a large orchestra. And it's a show that tackles big ideas about the American dream and who gets access to it. The production is so big that we couldn't contain it in one segment. So we're going to spend the entire hour today with the cast and director of Ragtime. Later, I'll speak with director Lier Debessonet about what it took to wrangle the production of this Size, along with actor Ben Levi Ross. But first, I'm joined by the three leads in the production. It's the early 1900s, and the lives of three completely different people are about to intersect in surprising ways. Joshua Henry. Hi. Joshua stars as Colehouse Walker Jr. An optimistic and successful black pianist who is determined to make things right with Sarah, the woman he loves. Casey Levy plays Mother, a wealthy white woman living with her family in New Rochelle, who takes in Sarah and Sarah's newborn baby, the child of Colehouse Walker Jr. And around this time, a Jewish immigrant named Tate arrives through Ellis Island. He and his daughter have come from Latvia looking to make a new life. Tate is played by Brandon Uranovitz. Each of these characters is hopeful, but American racism brings reality to the story. Ragtime is running now at the Vivian Beaumont Theater in Lincoln center through January 4th. And I'm joined now by Joshua, Casey and Brandon. It is so nice to have you in studio.

[B]

Thanks for having us.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

When was the first time that you encountered Cole House Walker Jr. 2003. Okay.

[D]

University of Miami Music Library. I remember where I was sitting, I could show. If I was in Miami, I'd show you right now. And I listened to that cast album and I remember hearing Brian Stokes Mitchell's voice and just being blown away in wonder that how can a voice move me so entirely so in such a huge way? And I thought, well, I want to be a part of telling These types of stories. I think I was 19 at the time, didn't know a moment like this was on its way, but glad it's here.

[A]

When was the first time that you thought I could do that role now.

[D]

Like three weeks ago? No, honestly, I think maybe in the last two years I thought to myself, okay, I'd be ready to sing something like that. Vocally is one thing, but also understanding what dreams and hopes actually mean is a different thing. When you have kids for me, and I have three four year old twins and a seven year old. And I think understanding what it means to fight for something, what it really means to be invested in the future of something for me has been huge in thinking about my kids and what having a dream means as a father, as an American, as a son of Jamaican parents who came to this country trying to make a better life for themselves and their family. So very recently I would say, Casey.

[A]

What was your first introduction to Ragtime?

[B]

So I grew up just outside of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And that's where Ragtime actually did its pre Broadway run. So I saw the production with all the original stars when I was about 14 years old. And by then I already knew I liked to act and sing. But it was one of those formative theater going moments where I saw that production and thought, I want to do that. And I really never thought I would get the chance to be part of a production of Ragtime. So to be here now feels pretty beautiful and wild.

[A]

Why didn't you think you would ever be a part of it?

[B]

I don't know if I. I just didn't. I think when I saw it, I was so young, I didn't really see a role for me at that time. You know, I. I think most impressed by Sarah, the character of Sarah, she was this young woman with this tragic storyline. But now that I'm a mother myself and I'm many shows into my Broadway career, being able to come have Ragtime sort of come back around and look at it with fresh eyes. As a woman, as an immigrant myself, who's now also an American, it's been very interesting and of course as a mother to get to tackle this part.

[A]

So, Brandon, you have a long history with this show. You were in the original version of Ragtime in Toronto, we should say, as a little boy. As a WASPy little boy.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And now you're playing the character of Tate. What did it mean for you to be back in the production on Broadway?

[C]

Oh, it's just, it's been a really Surreal, beautiful, full circle moment and incredibly healing for me, actually. You know, I worked a little bit professionally as a kid and I did get to do this world premiere production with, you know, Broadway's greatest, you know, Audra McDonald, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Peter Friedman, you know, the late, great, incredible, beautiful Marin Mazie. And, you know, they brought everyone in that production to Broadway except for me. And that was really confusing and devastating and a little bit traumatizing for me as a kid with dreams of being on Broadway and having it so close and then it just being sort of taken away from me, but coming back to it sort of 28 years later in a role that feels so aligned with who I am. The stories, like Joshua was saying, that I want to tell and the kind of identities and culture that I want to represent just feels right to me in a way that I, as an 11 year old, I never would have understood. So I'm proud of myself for sticking with it.

[A]

You got a Tony.

[C]

I did. Thank you, Allison. Yeah. No, yeah. I feel like I'm right where I'm supposed to be.

[A]

Joshua, what are Colehouse's attitudes towards life in America? When we meet him, when we first.

[D]

Meet him, I think he is fully bought in. I think this is someone who's been very influenced by Booker T. Washington. Someone who believes you work hard, you believe in the ideals, you put your mind to it, and it's possible. Right. Which is a very real thing. And that is something in a song like Wheels of a Dream, we fully see that on display. He and Sarah understanding, fully believing that this is possible for them and their son, and they're met with the harsh reality of not quite. I mean, it comes with an asterisk, Right. Especially for black Americans at that time. And so that's a big shock to the senses. And then we see that it takes a turn. And yeah, I think that makes me think about a little of my parents when we got. When they came to America. I mean, it's like there's so much opportunity and there's so much promise, but there was so much of an uphill climb as well.

[A]

When Tate, what does he think life is going to be like in America? And where does he get this idea that life is going to be like in America?

[C]

Well, he has a very idealistic view, and I think it lives in contrast to deep oppression over in Eastern Europe at the time. I mean, you know, they're escaping pogroms and violence, cultural violence over there. And I think, you know, American exceptionalism, quote, unquote, sort of permutated across, you know, oceans and borders. And I think it gave him a big, big dream. And that idealism is very quickly checked. But he never loses hope. And that's sort of the thing that I hold onto with that character. And he never sort of loses his joy, despite the bitter reality of what America is. And sort of the false promise, I think, of the American dream that was sort of falsely sold to folks.

[A]

Casey, is Mother someone who has ever given any thoughts to her hopes or. And her dreams?

[B]

I think she absolutely has, but very much in private. You know, we meet her at the top of the show, being pretty contented in her position in life, at least outwardly, but having deep longing for something bigger than herself that she doesn't dare say out loud or say to her husband. And it isn't until he leaves and goes on his journey that she gets to go on hers. And so I think she is someone who has a huge. I mean, we all these characters have such huge growth throughout the course of the show. But the thing I love most about Mother is that she dares to think about those dreams and hopes at a time when women really weren't allowed to. And in doing so, she opens up her life to people and ideas that never would have crossed her path before. And it changes the course of her life and her viewpoint in the show.

[A]

She shows a lot of sympathy, maybe not empathy, but sympathy for people around her. But she's married to a man who sees things a very different way. How would you describe their relationship?

[B]

I mean, I think they were young when they got married, and I think there was a lot of real love there. And I think that there still is. And that's the complicated thing about love and marriage. And I think you speak to anybody who's been in a relationship for a long time, and we know all those things can coexist. And, you know, I think this fractured time in our world, there's a lot of married couples or couples that have been together for a long time, partners who find themselves on other sides of political divide and have to deal with that. And that's very much what Mother and Father in this show are doing. They're growing alongside each other, not always hand in hand, and that makes life difficult, but they both do what they think is right.

[A]

We're talking about the Lincoln center revival of Ragtime. My guests are Joshua Henry, Casey Levy, and Princess Brandon Uranovitz. Ragtime is running through January 4th. Brandon, your character's journey dispels. It shows us the best and the worst of America. He comes to the country, he's desperately poor, but he's got talent. He's got amazing talent. He's working in awful conditions, but he figures out a way to get a little bit of money and he gets a little bit wealthy. First of all, how did you research the role and how did you balance the highs and the lows of the immigrant experience?

[C]

Oh, reading. And also, like, I just sort of gave my family history a deep dive. You know, Tata represents a part of my family. Part half of my family came over through Ellis island, and then the other half escaped World War II and came after the war. But so it was really just about my family's history, is what I've taken with me and I take with me on stage. And, you know, the highs and the lows, that's just something that, like, we love as actors, is to just play the range of the emotional spectrum. And something that I love playing Tate is you get to see him in the lowest pits of despair to the highest, you know, mountaintops of joy. And it's just a really glorious kind of thing to portray. And it feels full and satiating as an artist. And, yeah, it's just been. It's just such a joy also to be able to feel my ancestors with me, as maybe cheesy as that might sound. But, like, that's what this is. I think that's true for a lot of us on stage, telling a very deeply American story. You know, the promise of America and the wound of America, which is something that our director Lear, talks about often. And to play the promise and the pain is deeply satisfying and difficult as well.

[A]

Everybody should go to the Tenement Museum.

[C]

Not seeing it? Oh, yes, of course. I mean, I have also. Yes. The Tenement Museum is, like, incredible. I mean, even if you are not familiar with ragtime or are interested in musical theater, a visit to the Tenement Museum, I think is essential.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So, Joshua, a big part of your story has a giant, big metaphor in it in the form of a car, a new car that he is able to purchase. A gorgeous car. What does that car mean to your character?

[D]

I think a car. Like many people, Cohouse believed in the idea that this car was going to give some sort of status in his community in Harlem. Dressing well was very important. And I think owning this car meant that he's reached a point where he could provide and could demonstrate that provision to Sarah, who he was going after. And, you know, at the end of that, when he actually gets the car, he says, I'm ready, Lord. Like I'm ready to go and pursue this dream and get back with Sarah, who he had done wrong by. So what I love, and I'm not gonna give too many spoilers, but like in that scene, we see how that car is built and it's not a pretty thing. You know, the way that is represented in Henry Ford. I mean, it's. People are being taken advantage of. There's a lot going on in the assembly, which is such a big idea of progress, but at what cost. And it's a really beautiful moment that ends with a nice boom, nice little sheen to it. And so it just goes further into the idea of this beautiful dream. But what's on the other side of it.

[A]

It's so funny that you mentioned your children. Because I want to talk about children in this show because they're an interesting part of the show, I think. Especially your son, Casey. He's sort of like a spreader of truth.

[E]

Yes.

[A]

Tell me a little bit about the role and tell me a little bit about the actor who plays him.

[B]

Oh, well, Nick is such a special young man. He's such an incredible actor and he's so present and such a pro. Such a pro. Yeah, it's pretty wild. And it's been really wonderful getting to sort of like unlock our relationship over time because he's such a pro that he has been on his gig the whole time and now in the run of the show, now that we've been running for like two weeks or so, we're starting to have little moments where we play more and I'm able to really feel that tenderness towards him that I do with my own son. I have a nine year old boy and I see a lot of similarities between the character and my son and this relationship of a mother who loves her son so much and just wants him to be okay and wants him to be fine out in the world and do the right thing at the right time that she micromanages just a little too much. Can you tell I have some connection here. So even with all of the sort of nitpicking she does with her son and the correcting, it all comes from this place of love and I think it's unconditional. And he's got a little mysticism to him. You know, like you said, he's a truth teller in the show. And no matter what we do, we can't seem to stop that truth from coming out. And he's really like the best representation of that. It's a very interesting relationship to explore each night.

[A]

Brandon you have a daughter in the show? Tate. Tate has a daughter, I should say, at first. Why doesn't he want her to say her name to anyone?

[C]

A great question. You know, I think coming over here and pursuing the American dream is exciting and filled with joy and unknowns. But I think there's an element of anonymity that is important to him because I do think there is also a fear that sort of lives. There is the undercurrent of all of the excitement and joy that comes with it. So I think it's really just for protection. I mean, the thing that drives Tate throughout the entire story is his daughter's livelihood and her safety. And I think it's just, you know, I mean, he walks around with his daughter attached to a leash, basically, for the first part of Act 1. I think he is just deeply, deeply protective of his daughter. And anonymity, I think, is a part of that.

[B]

If I may jump in too, like, rightfully so, because we have this scene.

[A]

It'S a great scene where our kids.

[B]

Meet, and we meet on the train station, and I'm explaining to my son the reason that he has his daughter tied to a rope is that immigrants are terrified of losing their children. But then I add, so are we, but just not so conspicuously. And if that doesn't sum up the white privilege versus the immigrant situation of it all, I don't know what does. And so, you know, these two people from these two different worlds are connecting over something that they have to approach very differently. And I think that's where the funny in that moment comes from and where the sadness does, too.

[C]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

Let's talk about this being a musical. Joshua. There are so many powerful. All of you have powerful voices. There are so many powerful moments in this show. How do you navigate in a show like this, knowing that you have these big climatic moments coming up? Do you reserve your energy? I'm just curious how you do it.

[D]

You know, I used to say, I live like a monk. I don't anymore. But I think, like Brendan was saying about just rangy roles, vocally, I try to get a lot of sleep. I don't. I often talk like this, even with my kids. They're like, daddy, speak up. I'm like, okay, yeah, you have to, you know, drink a lot of tea backstage and Pastilles. Like. I mean, the stuff that. The preparation is insane. I will just say it's. It's from listening to music like this in the music library, listening to ragtime for the first time. I realized that in Order to sing in a way that could feel like that could move people like that, that I had to practice a lot, you know, and that's. I've practiced. I sing when I'm not in a show, like, five days a week, like, because I just. I love the idea of moving with my voice, moving people's emotions with my voice. And so this is not something that you do three weeks before rehearsal or six months. Personally, you know, this is a lifestyle of creative growth that I've tried to commit to over my several years in my career. So moments like these, they feel massive. But thankfully, with the right preparation, it's just like, okay, you have to meet the moment with the preparation that you have. And, you know, sometimes you don't always hit the mark, and sometimes you got to clear your throat, and sometimes you got to just gear up for it. You try not to make. You try to slow these moments down. Right.

[C]

Interesting.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

For the record, Joshua always hits the.

[E]

Mark, by the way.

[B]

Yeah, he does. Yeah, he does.

[C]

Every single time.

[A]

All right, back away from your radios, people. People who are listening, we're going to play a clip. This is you and Nichelle Lewis performing Wheels of a Dream on the Late show with Stephen Colbert.

[D]

Beyond glisten lifetime that car full of.

[A]

Hope Will always live with the promise of happiness and the freedom he lived.

[D]

To know he'll travel with a head.

[A]

Held high Just as far as his heart can go and he will run Our son will ride on the walls.

[C]

Of our dream.

[A]

The crowd goes wild oh, they sure you have a number like that. You have a number like that, Brandon, as well. I'm curious. Why do you think audiences are so plugged into Ragtime at this moment? Casey?

[B]

Oh, gosh. I mean, I think the world is in a troubling spot. And in the depths of fear, sadness, anger, rage, love, we look to art, and Ragtime serves all of that up across the spectrum. No matter where you fall, where you come from, where you're going, you resonate with this story in some way. And I think people come in thinking that they're in one storyline, and our hope is that they leave having conversations and asking questions about the ways in which they might fall into the other storylines and be affected by those stories and those characters and those people. It's all about art. You know, we need art in these tough times.

[A]

What do you think, Brandon?

[C]

Oh, I absolutely second what Casey said. And also, I think, you know, the incredible, unique thing about Ragtime is it has this uncanny ability to zoom in on really specific stories. And then seamlessly zoom out and show you the universal. And like, you know, if I can use Tate's storyline as an example, telling this story that takes place over 100 years ago, you know, about a Jewish immigrant coming over from Eastern Europe, we zoom in on that specific story. But if we look at it as Americans coming to Lincoln center in 2025, we can Zoom out and look at the universal things that are happening in this country right now, especially around immigration. And my hope is that when we come and see this show, that Tate's storyline in its specificity can offer a universal glimpse at what's going on and allow people to ask themselves questions about how they can galvanize and make some change and do something about it. So I think it's sort of in that zooming in and out of the universal and the specific that really engages people in the story and connects them to the outside world.

[A]

And Jasiah, you want to finish for us?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, I just think the incredible book by the late Terrence McNally, like Brandon was saying, shows characters that are so at one intent and the extremes of emotion. And I feel like seeing those things sometimes. We can live on our phones, we can live on the news cycle, and we can sort of just get in this humdrum mentality of this is just the way things are. But seeing exuberance, seeing hope, seeing desperation, and like Casey was saying, putting yourself in those moments, I think really you're invested and you see it in yourself in a very visceral way. That's what I think. That's what the glory of Ragtime really, really is.

[A]

Lincoln Center's revival of Ragtime will be running through January 4th. My guests have been Joshua Henry, Casey Levy and Brandon Uranovitz. Thank you so much for being with us. We're going to talk to your director after a quick break.

[B]

Thanks so much.

[C]

Thank you. So.

[A]

You'Re listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's continue our hour long celebration of the new revival of Ragtime, running now at Lincoln Center. Lyre Debessinet is the new artistic director of Lincoln Center Theater, and she had the task of staging this complex musical which includes a 28 piece orchestra and a massive ensemble cast. Part of that ensemble includes mother's younger brother, played by Ben Levi Ross. Younger brother is part of a wealthy white family in New Rochelle. He's obsessed with an actress caught up in a murder trial. But after spending some time with Kohlhouse Walker Jr. And after hearing Emma Goldman speak younger Brother starts to wonder if he has a part to play in changing America for the better. Under the direction of Lear, these characters serve as part of the heart and the conscious of Ragtime. I'm joined now by Lear Debessenet. Hi, Lear.

[E]

Hello. Thank you for having us.

[A]

And actor Ben Levi Ross. Hi, Ben.

[F]

Hi. How you doing?

[A]

I'm doing well. So, Lear, why does ragtime matter in 2025?

[E]

Oh, thank you for asking that. It has been such a thrill to bring it to an audience today, right now, in this moment. And for me, the show is a masterpiece. I think it stands on its own at any time. But there are ways that it is finding a particularly unique resonance in this moment. And it's a show that, in a way, has. It's full of these riches of joy, including this unbelievably gorgeous score. And so many different stories coming together that are both intimate and epic at the same time. But. But what you see is it's set at the turn of the century, the 20th century. And you're seeing these different groups of people, different families come together, trying to build their life in America at that time. And people pursuing their own version of the dream. And there's something about the way that this musical is able to both, again, create this panoramic sense of that time. And both the beauty and the complexity of our story as Americans. And just also the level of truth in performance, I think, that this particular cast is bringing to it that is, I'm so grateful to say, resonating very deeply with audience members. And for me, as an artist, that's why I make work to begin with, hoping that it will resonate.

[A]

Ben, I saw this on the day of the no Kings protest. And our audience was sort of vibrating a little bit in the theater. Do you feel that. Do you feel the audience having this sort of, like, almost spiritual moment when they were seeing Ragtime?

[F]

Oh, absolutely. And I think that what Lear has done, what we've all created, is a space for this sort of group catharsis that's rare. There is sort of a spiritual like experience when you go to the theater in any regard. But the space that's been created with Ragtime is a space for people to really feel the community that they have around them. Like, I think I've heard a lot of people, actually, that come to the show sitting next to strangers. And by the end of act one, both of them are weeping and turning to each other and saying, what are we experienc right now? Not just because of the sonic experience. Of listening to Joshua Henry sing, but also because I think it's moving them on so many different levels. And if you saw it on Saturday, the city was vibrating at a very different level. And playing Mother's Younger Brother, I think I was reflecting a lot of the anger that a lot of people are feeling. And I definitely have experienced that connection with the audience, especially after Younger Brother sort of becomes radicalized. There's. There's a real resonance that I'm feeling from audiences every night.

[A]

On a practical level, what do you like about working with such a big ensemble?

[F]

Oh, gosh, it's. It's. Well, on a practical level, one of my favorite things ever is the fact that I get to sort of like, share the burden of doing a show eight times a week with a large ensemble. Prior to this, I was in a musical called Dear Evan Hansen for many years, which was Dear Evan Hansen.

[A]

Heard of it?

[F]

Well, I was in it for on and off for five years of my life. So it was a big part of my growth as a performer. And I didn't leave the stage once during that show. And that was also close to a three hour show. And with Ragtime, we have this incredible ensemble of principles and this unbelievable ensemble that really we're sharing that. I don't want to call it a burden, but it is a physical taxation on our bodies. And so being able to pop back into the story and know that the story was completely taken care of while I was gone is so wonderful.

[A]

What were the biggest challenges for you as a director in making sure you have all of these storylines with so many different characters, how they can each have their moment to shine, but it can be a cohesive experience.

[E]

It's an excellent question because the orchestration of large scale work really, I think, requires the director to have a sort of scalpel edge around clarity of story because we also. The Beaumont space, which is, I think, the most magical stage in New York City, is also a thrust stage, which means that, you know, the audience is sort of. It's a curved stage that has audience essentially on three sides as well as the stage having a lot of depth. So it means that the audience has a very intimate relationship to the show that almost any seat you're in, you will feel like you really have a lot of access to the performers. But that also requires a little bit of extra work from the director because it means that not everybody is even watching the story from the same physical angle.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[E]

Yeah. And what I feel is I think of myself as a sort of conductor of Emotion, where my job is to have my own sort of heart and body so connected to the story and to where your eye needs to be and where your ear needs to be. And one of the things that I really take so seriously and kind of pride myself on is I'm hoping whenever somebody comes to see a show of mine, they feel like they can hear every word. And that is much more than about the sound design and the volume of the actors. To hear every word, every stage picture has to be right. It means that a person can't ever be, you know, saying a key line while they're walking, right? They have to be still, they have to be in the right position, they have to be lit properly. It's truly this great orchestration, all these little details about craft that hopefully the audience doesn't have to be aware of, because I want the audience to just be in the moment. But I will say that, you know, directing musicals, I really. It is a craft and it's something that I have loved studying and being just a very deep student of for a really long time. And I hope the audience can gets to feel that clarity in our production.

[A]

Ben, do you remember a moment of direction that Lear gave you that you still use every night?

[F]

I mean, there are so many. I'm like, it's actually, I was just thinking while Lear was just talking how incredible it is to sit here next to her right now and hear like, what she was focused on, while I've just completed a weeks and weeks long rehearsal period with her. Because there is this sort of like scalpel, like specificity. I remember when we were doing runs of the show just in the room before we moved into the theater, Lir would sit all the way to the side so that she had the eye of an audience member sitting all the way to the side of the thrust of the stage. So that every sort of moment in the show, no audience member was left out of seeing these moments. And we. I mean, it's like hard for me to even think of one thing that Lier told me. But it's. I think something that I think about is like her attention to tone in the show and how we need those moments of levity in order for people to also feel comfortable experiencing the depths of a lot of the pain of the show and knowing where that levity can take place and where it's appropriate, you know, because there actually is kind of a lot of humor in this show.

[E]

There really is. I mean, that's the thing is it's actually. It's a Very entertaining show. In addition to holding all of the, you know, the deep things we've been saying. But. But it's. I think it's a great evening at the theater just on a purely sort of entertainment level.

[F]

Definitely.

[A]

I've been speaking about the new Broadway revival of Ragtime. My guests are director Lierre Debessinet and Ben Levi Ross. Ragtime is running now at the Vivian Beaumont Theatre at Lincoln center through January 4th. Why do you think your character, who starts out as a love struck boy and he turns into a radical, what do you think is the pivot moment for him?

[F]

I think, I mean, the pivot moment is definitely when he stumbles into a rally that Emma Goldman is holding, speaking to a group of people that are ready to go on strike. That is the pivotal, radicalizing moment for Younger Brother. And I think a lot about. I think a lot about 2020 in America, and I think about that year a lot, because I think a lot of white Americans had a reckoning whether it was in their own family units or whether it was just sort of in a solitary moment on the Internet. There is this sort of reflection that I'm seeing between Younger Brother and that time. And I think bringing Ragtime to New York in 2025, this character is resonating on a different level than perhaps even in the original production because I think a lot of people are seeing themselves in this person. And, you know, some people could look at this character and think that is a crazy turn, like that person switched, you know, very quickly. But that is kind of. That's how it happens. People hear something that resonates deeply with them and they have an awakening one day out of the BL and they realize, oh, I have to commit my life to this. And that's just. That's an incredible character to explore.

[A]

Leah, there are many sensitive elements to this story. There's racism, there's antisemitism, racial slurs are used, complicated dynamics between the white family and the black family. There's police brutality. How did you want to make sure the production was handling all of these plot points without sugarcoating the story and.

[E]

Making it a musicalized version of the story? Thank you for that question. It does hold all of those elements, in addition to, you know, things like romance and childhood. And, you know, it's. It's a very. I think it covers a lot of the human spectrum. And in our dealing with it, we were really, you know, we were looking to be. To pursue truth in performance and in staging. And we also were trusting the material and there's something so different about, you know, a musical is not in the genre of naturalism. Simply the fact that people are singing, especially when they're singing with a 28 piece orchestra and singing with the kind of voices that these Olympic athletes of the theater have. You're not in naturalism, right. You're in a space that is aiming for truth. But it is still inherently a heightened truth. It's very different than seeing any of these. Seeing any one of those sort of touchy subjects dealt with on television or film is a really different experience than seeing them in a musical. And actually, part of what I love is that, you know, sometimes I understand when people say, like. Like, I'm not reading the newspaper anymore. It's too much for me today, or I'm not. You know, that documentary looks amazing, but I can't bear to watch it. I understand where they're coming from. Right. We all. We sort of have to protect our spirits and getting through the day. And there's something about a musical that is really, you know, everything about this show is done in it with a spirit of invitation and welcome and connection. And I think part of the gift of it is you're able to experience these parts of American history that have pain to them. And that are many of those. I mean, those things are still with us. They're still present with us right now. But because you're experiencing it in community, you're not by yourself behind a screen. You're actually with other people. And music is holding you up as you experience them. I think that, at least for me, it's actually able to kind of crack open a different piece of my own heart or my own mind when I experience it in this context. And I think it's a very refreshing and actually a strengthening experience.

[A]

Anything you want to add, Ben, before we wrap up?

[F]

I just think what we have is something really special.

[E]

Yes, I really do. We want everyone to come and join us.

[C]

We do.

[F]

And I mean, like, this is also just New York theater at its apex. We have the largest orchestra on Broadway right now. You don't have that. We have this enormous cast of incredible talent.

[E]

I would come to see any one of these performances. If any one of these performances was happening somewhere, I would go see it. And this is like, you know, watching a stage full of that level of performance.

[A]

We've been discussing Ragtime. My guests were director Liere Debessinet and star Ben Levi Ross. Ragtime is running at Lincoln center through January 4th. Thank you for sharing your afternoon with us. We really appreciate it.

[F]

Thank you.

[E]

Thank you. You are marvelous. Thank you so much. NYC now delivers the most up to date local news from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening with three updates a day. Listeners get breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from across New York City by sponsoring programming like NYC now. You'll reach our community of dedicated listeners with premium messaging and an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to get in touch and find out more.