Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: A Retired Serial Killer Covers Her Tracks in A New Novel

Date: September 2, 2025
Guest: Samantha Downing, author of "Too Old for This"

Overview

This episode centers on Samantha Downing's new thriller, Too Old For This, which follows Lottie Jones, a 75-year-old grandmother and retired serial killer, as she’s drawn back into her dark past when a true crime docuseries producer knocks on her door. Host Alison Stewart and Downing discuss the inspiration behind Lottie, the nuances of writing older antiheroes, the challenges of technology in modern crime fiction, and the persistent cultural theme of judgment, especially for women as they age.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Premise: An Aging Serial Killer (00:09–02:04)

• Alison introduces the unique twist of the novel: Lottie Jones is an elderly grandmother, not the typical glamorous or gritty killer.

• Downing emphasizes the "experience" Lottie brings to her crimes, especially her ability to evade detection:

  "More importantly than the killing is the getting away with it." (Samantha Downing, 01:30)

• Lottie is forced out of retirement not by her own choice but by outside circumstances and must navigate a world transformed by new technology and science.

2. Real-Life Inspirations for Lottie (02:04–02:33)

• Downing confesses she found no real-life grandmother serial killers in her research but notes instances of older female criminals and criminal couples.
• The character is more a product of imagination and her own experiences.

3. Character-Driven Process (02:33–03:36)

• Downing explains her process starts with a compelling character in a situation, rather than a plot outline:

  "I don't really plot my books. I sort of wing it basically." (Downing, 02:46)

• Lottie’s story came from Downing’s own life frustrations during a period of impaired mobility, which she channeled into her character.

4. Aging, Adaptation, and Frustration (03:36–05:22)

• Downing reveals her personal health struggles were cathartically projected onto Lottie:

  "I'm going to give her all my frustration... I'm going to let her deal with everything I feel frustrated about." (Downing, 04:08)

• The book explores how Lottie, losing her youthful strength, must constantly adapt her methods to her aging physical state.

5. Finding Lottie's Voice (05:38–07:27)

• Lottie’s attitude is "been there, done that," combined with a private snarkiness and frustration at modern life.
• Downing outlines the importance of giving even a serial killer relatable elements, so the reader finds sympathy or kinship:

  “If you're writing from a serial killer's point of view, there has to be something readers can relate to... Otherwise... you're just writing about a monster.” (Downing, 06:43)

6. Reading from 'Too Old For This' (07:27–10:17)

• Samantha reads the opening scene, where Lottie, in her faded loungewear, is interrupted by the persistent Plum Dixon, a TV producer, setting the tone of wry humor and weariness.

  "We match, me and this house, though it's important to note I'm the younger one." (Book excerpt, 10:13)

7. Plum Dixon: The Intruder & Modern True Crime (10:17–12:19)

• Downing conceived Plum as a true crime podcaster or docuseries producer, reflecting the genre’s ubiquity.
• The arrival of Plum, who threatens Lottie’s carefully constructed new life, is a catalyst; she represents technology’s intrusion and the risk of exposure in the modern media world.

8. Judgment—A Recurring Theme (12:19–13:29)

• Both host and guest unpack how judgment—especially of women, and particularly older women—haunts Lottie:

  “Women are judged all the time, all day, every day... for our whole lives... and at some point it just gets to her.” (Downing, 12:45)

• The psychological weight of “being judged” is a pivotal motive for Lottie’s actions.

9. Mortality, Aging, and Practicality (13:29–14:33)

• Lottie's considerations about moving to senior living reflect her fears of isolation, declining ability, and the pragmatic aspects of aging:

  "...how many years do I really have left? ...All of these questions are on her mind." (Downing, 14:07)

10. Technology, Surveillance, and Modern Crime (14:33–18:19)

• Downing details her research into digital surveillance, attending conferences and consulting experts:

  “If you're carrying a device with you, somebody can find you. It just depends on how hard they're looking and who exactly is looking for you.” (Downing quoting cyber expert, 15:41)

• For Lottie, adapting to modern surveillance is yet another way she must evolve. Technology is both a practical obstacle and thematic presence in the novel.

• The ubiquity of cameras and the fluidity of "villainy" with context is discussed:

  “Anyone can become the villain with the right angle.” (Lottie, paraphrased by host, 16:51)

• Downing notes that technology has made the old model of undetected serial killers nearly impossible.

11. Church Community: Realism Over Cuteness (18:19–19:40)

• Downing wanted to portray Lottie’s church group as authentic—funny, edgy, and sometimes sharp-tongued, resisting stereotypes of "sweet old ladies":

  “...they go to bingo night and are upset they're not allowed to have alcohol... her and her friends... tease each other about being horrible mothers.” (Downing, 18:56)

• Community is important to Lottie, highlighting the social richness of aging.

12. Writing Process and Character Tracking (19:40–20:45)

• Downing writes by "winging it," keeping only a basic list of characters, with the real structure and continuity hammered out during revisions and edits.

13. Should Readers Root for Lottie? (20:45–21:34)

• Downing doesn’t believe rooting for Lottie is necessary:

  “No. But if they want to, that's... great. ...People root for her to succeed... not necessarily... to kill. ...I don't even care if you root for them or if you root against them. What I care about is if I'm writing a compelling character.” (Downing, 20:49)

Notable Quotes

• On aging and adaptation:
  "She doesn't have the strength that she had when she was younger, and she has to adapt... She's constantly adapting and adjusting to her new situation, which was kind of what I was doing." (Downing, 04:46)

• On being judged:
  “Women are judged all the time, all day, every day, for what we wear, how we act, what we say... There is judgment all the time... And at some point, it just gets to her.” (Downing, 12:45)

• On technology in crime writing:
  “If you're carrying a device with you, somebody can find you. ...So the only way around this really, is to leave your phone at home.” (Downing, 15:41)

• On community realism:
  “I wanted them to be slightly more real sounding and edgy... rather than a group of older people that are always very nice and very pleasant and very sweet to each other.” (Downing, 18:56)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:09–01:19: Introduction to Samantha Downing and the premise of Too Old For This
• 02:41–03:36: Downing explains where her characters come from
• 04:08–05:22: Discussion of Downing's health struggles informing Lottie's character
• 07:39–10:17: Samantha reads from the opening chapter of the novel
• 12:40–13:29: Conversation about judgment and its thematic importance
• 15:19–16:51: In-depth discussion of technology, surveillance, and writing crime fiction today
• 18:34–19:40: Portraying church community life authentically
• 20:49–21:34: Rooting for antiheroes and the nature of compelling characters

Memorable Moments

• Downing describes channeling her own anger and frustration about aging and health into Lottie’s snarky, resourceful character.
• The lively, darkly humorous scene Downing reads, setting the book’s tone.
• Lottie’s calculation of how long it would take for someone to find her body if she died alone—both grim and oddly matter-of-fact.
• Downing’s frankness about how writing by instinct creates challenges in revision, but that emotional honesty is key.
• The host and guest’s mutual laughter at the idea of “real” old ladies being more than bingo and pleasantries.

Tone and Style

• Both Alison Stewart and Samantha Downing maintain a wry, intelligent, and inviting tone.
• Downing’s responses combine practical wisdom from research with candid personal reflection, mirroring the dark humor and realism in her prose.

This episode offers a nuanced, entertaining look at the creation of a wholly original antihero—an elderly killer reckoning with age, secrecy, and technology—while meditating on relatable themes of identity, women’s lives, and the modern surveillance state. Downing’s blend of humor, darkness, and sharp observation makes the conversation engaging even for those unfamiliar with the novel or crime fiction genre.