Podcast Title: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Mark Kurlansky
Episode: A Story of Change and Cheesecake on the Upper West Side
Release Date: July 15, 2025

Introduction: Summer Reading Challenge and Mark Kurlansky's Novel

Alison Stewart opens the episode by highlighting WNYC's vibrant community engagement through their summer reading challenge, where over a thousand participants are encouraged to read five books across diverse categories. One notable suggestion is Mark Kurlansky's latest novel, Cheesecake, described as an embodiment of New York City's essence, featuring elements like cheesecake, a Greek diner, and Upper West Side real estate.

Alison Stewart [00:55]:
"Author Mark Kurlansky's latest novel would make a fine choice because it is about as New York as it gets. It involves cheesecake, a Greek diner, and Upper west side real estate."

Exploring Cheesecake: Themes and Inspirations

Mark Kurlansky delves into the inspiration behind Cheesecake, revealing his fascination with an ancient recipe by Cato, a Roman senator from 160 BCE. Kurlansky was intrigued by the idea of using this archaic and incomprehensible recipe as a literary device to explore how different characters interpret the same instructions, thereby highlighting the essence of individual creativity over the written word.

Mark Kurlansky [01:46]:
"Cato was a right wing Roman politician, a senator. He wrote this recipe about 160 BCE, making it the earliest published recipe that we know of... recipes are not what make the dish. What makes the dish is the cook who's trying to follow the recipe."

The novel is set on West 86th Street between Columbus and Amsterdam, capturing the dynamics of a neighborhood in transition. The story revolves around the Catsikis brothers, originally from the Cyclades in Greece, who migrate to New York City in the 1970s with aspirations of establishing a Greek diner on the Upper West Side.

Mark Kurlansky [04:11]:
"They come from the Cyclades, and they've known other people who came and all said they did quite well and told them that the way you do well is you get a Greek diner. That's how you do it."

Character Dynamics: Art vs. Nicky

Kurlansky introduces the central characters, Art and Nikki, portraying them as opposites. Nikki embodies charm and charisma, essential for the diner’s initial success, while Art represents business acumen and ambition, driving the family's entrepreneurial ventures.

Mark Kurlansky [06:31]:
"Nikki is one of those occasional Greeks who looks like out of mythology, just incredibly beautiful and not a lot of drive, not a great intellect, but charms everybody."
Mark Kurlansky [06:52]:
"Art... has a lot of business smarts and is very ambitious."

Cheesecake as a Literary Device

Cheesecake serves as a metaphorical anchor in the novel, symbolizing tradition amidst change. Kurlansky emphasizes his belief that food reflects cultural and societal nuances, providing deeper insights into character development and community dynamics.

Mark Kurlansky [07:23]:
"Food tells you a lot about people and a society and you can learn everything. I think food really tells us a lot."

Neighborhood Transformation: From Community Hub to Transience

The Upper West Side, particularly West 86th Street, undergoes significant transformation throughout the novel. Kurlansky, reflecting on his 28-year residency in the area, describes the shift from a tight-knit, culturally diverse community to a transient neighborhood dominated by wealthier, often non-New Yorker residents.

Mark Kurlansky [12:18]:
"What's changed the most about West 86th Street? Well, the people, the people who come in now are much wealthier. They're often not New Yorkers... it's become a neighborhood of transitory buildings."

This change underscores the central conflict in the novel: the struggle to preserve neighborhood culture against the pressures of gentrification and economic displacement.

Violetta's Story: Bridging Art and Entrepreneurship

Violetta, originally Veronica, represents the intersection of art and commerce. Her transformation from a humble background to a celebrated model mirrors the broader themes of aspiration and identity within the evolving neighborhood landscape.

Mark Kurlansky [14:53]:
"She wants to be more interesting. She becomes a famous model with the name Violeta... Meanwhile, all she wanted to do was go to the Greek diner and have root beer floats."

Appendix: The History of Cheesecake

Kurlansky's Cheesecake includes a comprehensive appendix titled "Cheesecake: A History." This section traces the evolution of cheesecake from ancient Roman times to its establishment as a quintessential New York dessert. He discusses various recipes, including less conventional versions, and highlights the cultural significance of cheesecake in different eras and locales.

Mark Kurlansky [17:33]:
"I love historic recipes. I thought I would go back through the whole history of cheesecake from ancient times to modern times and the evolution of it and at what point it became a New York dish."

He credits Arnold Rubin with popularizing New York-style cheesecake in 1929 by introducing cream cheese and graham cracker crusts, distinguishing it from the lighter, chiffon-based LA variations.

Mark Kurlansky [18:08]:
"New York Cheesecake, according to New York legend, was invented in 1929 by Arnold Rubin... the first time they used cream cheese in a cheesecake and the first time they used a graham cracker crust."

Listener Engagement: Favorite Cheesecakes in New York

The episode transitions to an interactive segment where listeners share their favorite cheesecake spots in New York City. Several callers recount personal anecdotes and recommend beloved establishments:

• Lynn from Hartsdale, NY [19:00]:
  "My wonderful recollection is the iconic Lindy's cheesecake... Now, of course, it's gone and I make cheesecake and I have a friend that makes fabulous cheesecake."

• Cecile from Princeton, NJ [19:45]:
  "There is an amazing ube cheesecake in NAX restaurant on First Avenue and like 12th street in Manhattan. It's really good."

• Deborah from Princeton, NJ [20:49]:
  "We every Friday after work would go to Famous Dely, buy two slices of cheesecake... For our wedding had a cheesecake."

• Kevin from Old Brookville, NY [21:49]:
  "Ms. Grimble's cheesecake hands down is the best cheesecake on earth."

Kurlansky fondly recalls his grandmother's cheesecake recipe, highlighting the personal and familial connections that make cheesecake a beloved dessert.

Mark Kurlansky [22:09]:
"I'll tell you what my favorite cheesecake recipe is... my grandmother's. She made a cheesecake with no cream cheese... all farmer's cheese and lemon and eggs and a little sour cream."

Book Recommendations for Summer Reading Challenge

As part of the wrapping-up segment, Kurlansky recommends additional books for the summer reading challenge:

1. The Assistant by Bernard Malmuth
   "It's the story of a struggling Jewish grocery store in Brooklyn."

2. The Belly of Paris by Émile Zola
   "It's the greatest food novel ever written. The story of a political refugee who escapes from French Guiana, makes it back to Paris and hides out in his brother's charcuterie in Les Halles market."

Mark Kurlansky [22:54]:
"It's the story of a struggling Jewish grocery store in Brooklyn... the greatest food novel ever written."

Conclusion: Promotional Remarks and Event Announcement

Alison Stewart concludes the episode by promoting Kurlansky's upcoming talk at Barnes and Noble on the Upper West Side, encouraging listeners to attend and engage further with his work.

Mark Kurlansky [23:57]:
"Oh, and if anybody's around tonight at Barnes and Noble on the Upper west side, seven o'clock, I'm doing a talk."

Key Takeaways

• Cultural Reflection Through Food: Cheesecake uses the evolution of a simple dessert to mirror the broader cultural and societal shifts in a New York neighborhood.

• Character Contrast: The dynamic between Art and Nikki highlights the tension between tradition and modernization, a central theme in the narrative.

• Neighborhood Transformation: The Upper West Side's transition from a diverse, tight-knit community to a transient, affluent area serves as a microcosm of urban change.

• Personal Connections to Cuisine: Listener stories emphasize how food, particularly cheesecake, serves as a vessel for personal memories and communal identity.

• Historical Context: The appendix provides a rich historical backdrop, enhancing the narrative's depth and offering readers a comprehensive understanding of cheesecake's place in culinary history.

Notable Quotes

• Mark Kurlansky [07:23]:
  "Food tells you a lot about people and a society and you can learn everything."

• Mark Kurlansky [12:24]:
  "It's become a neighborhood of transitory buildings."

• Mark Kurlansky [18:08]:
  "New York Cheesecake was invented in 1929 by Arnold Rubin... the first time they used cream cheese in a cheesecake and the first time they used a graham cracker crust."

For more insights into the intersection of culture and community, tune into future episodes of All Of It on WNYC.