Podcast Summary: All Of It – Episode Featuring Jude Law and Justin Kurzel on "The Order"

Release Date: December 3, 2024

Introduction

In this riveting episode of All Of It hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, listeners are immersed in a deep conversation with acclaimed actor Jude Law and visionary director Justin Kurzel. The duo delves into their collaborative efforts on the new film "The Order," a gripping FBI thriller inspired by true events surrounding a white supremacist group in the Pacific Northwest during the early 1980s.

Background on "The Order"

Alison Stewart sets the stage by recounting the harrowing true story of a group known as the Order, neo-Nazis and white supremacists who orchestrated a series of bank heists to fund an armed uprising against the U.S. government. This foundation serves as the bedrock for Kurzel’s critically acclaimed film, with Jude Law portraying the determined FBI agent Terry Husk tasked with dismantling the group.

Alison Stewart [00:17]:

"It was 40 years ago that a group of neo Nazis white supremacists were tied to a string of bank heists in the Pacific Northwest... The Order opens in theaters this week."

Director Justin Kurzel’s Vision

Justin Kurzel shares his initial reaction to the nonfiction book "The Silent Brotherhood," which inspired the film. He expresses astonishment at the real-life existence of the Order and highlights the unnerving parallels between the group's activities in the 1980s and the events of January 6th, 2021.

Justin Kurzel [01:26]:

"I couldn’t believe that it had existed... as we were developing it... we started to see... some real parallels with January the sixth."

Kurzel emphasizes the meticulous research undertaken to authentically portray the Order’s heists and the charismatic yet dangerous leader, Bob Matthews, illustrating how the group exploited vulnerable communities.

Justin Kurzel [04:24]:

"The group of the Order and the specific details of how this group carried out some pretty extraordinary heists... it was all very much directly from the kind of research."

Jude Law’s Portrayal of Terry Husk

Jude Law discusses his decision to take on the role of Terry Husk, highlighting the character’s complexity and relevance to contemporary social issues. He describes Husk as a weary, broken FBI agent grappling with a successful yet costly career, mirroring the internal conflicts many face in today's divided world.

Jude Law [02:40]:

"The themes were clearly unsettlingly relevant to today and the global social climate of divide and extremism... the character of Terry Husk reflects all of us."

Law elaborates on his approach to embodying Husk, including working with vocal coaches to perfect the character’s accent and mannerisms, ensuring an authentic portrayal that captures Husk’s vulnerabilities and resilience.

Jude Law [05:58]:

"I had to be very specific as to where he was from... the accent was absolutely a part of that... finding little details that perhaps sound eccentric and silly, but... helps in creating authenticity."

Character Dynamics and Storytelling

The conversation transitions to the intricate dynamics between Husk and Bob Matthews. Justin Kurzel describes Matthews as a charismatic community leader who manipulates disenfranchised individuals, while Husk embodies the classic antihero struggling to maintain his footing against overwhelming odds.

Justin Kurzel [08:23]:

"What was so fascinating about Bob Matthews is he was sort of a community man... empowering people by listening... his ability to exploit a sense of vulnerability."

Jude Law praises Kurzel’s storytelling prowess, noting how the director humanizes both protagonists and antagonists, offering a nuanced exploration of their motivations.

Jude Law [08:04]:

"Justin sees people as humans and unpacks them accordingly... that makes his storytelling all the more effective."

Filmmaking Challenges and Decisions

Justin Kurzel shares insights into the challenges of directing an independent genre film, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a consistent vision and guiding the audience through the film’s intense narrative.

Justin Kurzel [17:36]:

"What's the point of view and what's the feel of how you want to tell this story?... ensuring characters are playing to the vision you had in your mind."

Jude Law reflects on the benefits of participating in an independent film, citing the passionate collaboration and sense of camaraderie among the crew as key elements that elevate the filmmaking experience.

Jude Law [18:49]:

"There's a wonderful sense of camaraderie... a sense of fulfillment... passion and enthusiasm at the heartbeat of an experience like this."

Relevance to Contemporary Issues

The hosts and guests discuss the film's timely exploration of extremism and community dynamics. Justin Kurzel emphasizes the film’s focus on why communities become vulnerable to dangerous ideologies, highlighting the role of communication and isolation in fostering extremism.

Justin Kurzel [24:13]:

"It's about communication and listening... when communities feel isolated, things become dangerous."

Jude Law adds that the film aims to unpack how individuals seek belonging and understanding, often falling prey to toxic influences when they feel unheard or marginalized.

Jude Law [22:57]:

"Justin has unpacked the communities we surround ourselves with... how toxic individuals can influence those seeking family and support."

Clip from "The Order"

A pivotal scene from the film is featured, where FBI agent Terry Husk encounters Bob Matthews in the wilderness. This moment underscores the tension and mutual underestimation between the characters.

Alison Stewart [10:21]:

"Terry Husk doesn't know he's being cased, but he's aware something is amiss... Matthews underestimates Husk, thinking he's a broken old man."

Jude Law elaborates on the significance of this encounter, highlighting Husk’s intuition and Matthews’ misjudgment as critical turning points in the narrative.

Jude Law [11:26]:

"Matthews completely underestimates Husk... it's a key turning point where Matthews realizes there's something up."

Final Thoughts and Film Release

As the episode concludes, Justin Kurzel and Jude Law reflect on the anticipation surrounding the film’s release and its expected impact on audiences. They express hope that "The Order" will spark meaningful conversations about extremism, community, and the human condition.

Alison Stewart [22:41]:

"In the last US election, there were conversations about DEI and standing up to hate. What do you hope this film contributes?"

Jude Law [22:57]:

"It's thrilling to watch... a very exciting, propulsive piece of filmmaking."

Justin Kurzel [24:05]:

"How communities seek answers in dangerous ideologies... the kernel is understanding why communities seek answers in shadows."

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It offers an in-depth exploration of "The Order," blending real historical events with cinematic storytelling. Through the perspectives of Justin Kurzel and Jude Law, listeners gain a profound understanding of the film’s thematic depth, character complexities, and its poignant reflection on contemporary societal issues. As "The Order" hits theaters on December 6th, the conversation promises to resonate with audiences seeking both thrilling entertainment and thoughtful discourse.

Notable Quotes

• Justin Kurzel [01:26]:

  "We started to obviously see with January the sixth, some real, you know, real parallels."

• Jude Law [02:40]:

  "The character of Terry Husk reflects all of us... sort of weary and broken."

• Justin Kurzel [08:23]:

  "What makes Bob Matthews so dangerous is his ability to exploit vulnerability."

• Jude Law [05:58]:

  "Finding little details... helps in creating authenticity."

• Justin Kurzel [24:13]:

  "When communities feel isolated, things become dangerous."

About "All Of It"

All Of It by WNYC is a show dedicated to exploring culture and its consumers, engaging thinkers, doers, makers, and creators to discuss the what and why of their work. Hosted by Alison Stewart, the show fosters a diverse community reflecting the rich tapestry of New York City’s cultural landscape.