Alison Stewart (3:17)

It probably helped you relax in some way.

Luke Tenney (3:20)

I think you're right. You know, I'll figure it out, man. I'll clean floors, I'll work at the restaurant. I do not care. I'll do whatever I have to do. It doesn't just have to be saying words on this camera, but what an honor to be able to do.

Alison Stewart (3:30)

So let's talk about shrinking. Most people around here know we love shrinking on this show. It's basically about three therapists who work together and their families and their relationships. And when Michael Urie came to the studio and I interviewed him, I said, well, what did you. What do you like about the show? And he said he liked the way it approached mental health and it helped him seek therapy. How did shrinking's focus on mental health? What did it mean to you when you first picked up the script?

Luke Tenney (3:56)

It meant the world, especially being able to play a young African American man who's experiencing benefits from committing to therapy. And shout out to Michael, I'm a big fan of him. I'll talk about that man till the cows come home.

Alison Stewart (4:08)

Oh, he was so good in King Richard ii.

Luke Tenney (4:10)

Oh, my gosh, I wish I could have seen it. I saw him in Once Upon a Mattress.

Alison Stewart (4:14)

Oh, that was. He was good in that too.

Luke Tenney (4:15)

Yeah, he good in everything, man. This dude, you. He crazy good. I remember talking about how good he is with Jason on the first day his character was introduced. What an incredible actor. Anyway, had to take that time to talk about him. But, yeah, what it means to me is, like, our show is entertainment, but there's also a bit of education in it. There's a bit of responsibility that's taking place on behalf of the writers. They're doing the bulk of the work. That's not saying the actors are doing nothing, but we come in and we say, the words that they done the research to make sure are arranged in a healthy way in pertaining to mental health and, you know, just the whole awareness around being mentally fit.

Alison Stewart (4:58)

Tell me how Sean was presented to you in season one.

Luke Tenney (5:02)

Ah, so apparently I was wrong. I was just wrong about who this. Who this guy was. I got the audition. It was very clear to me who Sean was. I'm like, well, if he's this dude who's struggling with all this anger, obviously that's something that we can't see, right when we meet him, he's got to have some, like, gentleness to him. It was very clear to me that that was, like, what the words were telling me to play. Come to find out, apparently Brett and Debbie said, like, that's not what they were looking for at all. They were looking for, like, the stereotypical, you know, kind of like they saw him as, like a roid rage kind of guy, just mad, ready to go. I don't think that the character was written race specific. I think that they were open to anyone. But I think when I came in and did that, me thinking that that was exactly what it was. They said that they didn't redirect me. They were just like, oh, good. And just explored it further just to see what would happen. And I ended up getting hired for doing it wrong. So shout out to them for making wrong right in the case of Sean.

Alison Stewart (6:03)

Well, you did it right for you.

Luke Tenney (6:04)

Yeah, amen to that.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (6:05)

Right.

Luke Tenney (6:06)

I'm very grateful. Very grateful.

Alison Stewart (6:08)

In season three, we're seeing some developments in Sean's character. What's been especially rewarding in the arc that he's taking?

Luke Tenney (6:16)

Oh, man. Well, he's the client we follow the most, and I think that that means it's responsible to give him the burden of hope for the viewer. I think he represents hope. He represents what it could look like for a viewer to commit to what they're seeing in front of them, which is therapy, which is making a change which is a little bit beyond the stereotypical self improvement. It's more like getting into the nitty gritty and arming yourself with tools so that when you know you have to face the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, you're not just taking arms for no reason. You've got, like, a strategy in doing so.

Alison Stewart (6:55)

Have you related to how your character has developed over these three years?

Luke Tenney (6:59)

Yeah, I mean, he and I both changed a lot since I met him and he met me. You know, he was a really angry dude who didn't really know why he didn't know it was particularly connected to war. He didn't know he was ignorant. He just knew he came back with something. Like when he went overseas, he did what he had to do for his country, and something came back with him. He didn't know what it was. He didn't know how to identify it. He didn't know how to shake it. The last thing he expected to do was embrace it. And for me, when I started, you know, me and my wife are in this lovely two bedroom apartment, you know, recently married, and now we're coming up on five years. We got two kids.

Alison Stewart (7:40)

Congratulations.

Luke Tenney (7:41)

Thank you. Yeah, so Sean and I are both growing. You know, this dude's got his own food truck. You know, I got. I got these girls who I already miss. I left them yesterday and I'm like, I wonder what they're up to. Just waiting for pictures from my lady.

Alison Stewart (7:55)

Yeah, well, hopefully she'll text you some today.

Luke Tenney (7:57)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (7:58)

My guest is actor Luke Tenney. He's with me to discuss his character Sean on shrinking as well as both Abbott elementary and the pit. Let's listen to a clip from shrinking. In this scene, your character Shawn, who was just dumped, he's explaining how he feels to his therapist, played by Harrison Ford. Let's listen.

Luke Tenney (8:16)

We talked about it more, and she said that being with me was keeping her from moving forward. I understand it, but it's still annoying.

Harrison Ford (8:24)

Well, maybe it's annoying because deep down you realize that you should be moving on, too. I know you want more. A real relationship, your own place, a sailboat in Connecticut. Okay, the last one's mine, but point is, if you're not growing, you're not living.

Luke Tenney (8:45)

No, I lived this morning. Twice.

Harrison Ford (8:48)

I'll make a note of that. Patient keeps bragging despite having been dumped.

Luke Tenney (8:56)

I missed the notebook.

Harrison Ford (8:58)

So do I, kid. My handwriting got too shaky. Have I taught you about the field?

Luke Tenney (9:05)

Is this more your crunchy, munchy, spiritual crap?

Harrison Ford (9:08)

Life is a conversation with the universe.

Luke Tenney (9:11)

And we're off.

Alison Stewart (9:12)

That was Luke Tenney. What lessons are Sean learning this season?

Luke Tenney (9:17)

I think it's very hard for people who are comfortable to be told by people who love them that that's not the goal. He says if you're not growing, you're not living. And, oh, man, that's so true. I think comfort is a dangerous, dangerous enemy of those who are really, really doing the work to improve themselves. And in Sean's case, comfort's particularly dangerous because he doesn't just have to improve himself. He has to handle these extremely dangerous scars in A responsible way. They're not gonna go away. He's always somebody with the potential to snap, and he needs to. You know, like, when people are in aa, they. Even if they've been sober for years and years, part of the steps, the journey, is for them to admit that they are an alcoholic. And that's, I think, something that Sean is kind of learning here. From Sean, it's like, you don't get to say, I'm done. For you to actually achieve the progress you told me you wanted, you must continue to grow, to live. And at this point, you know, it's a little annoying. For Sean, it's not this detrimental criticism, like it might have been in years prior and seasons prior, which I think shows some of his growth. I think Paul's telling them some stuff that he knows, which is why he kind of anticipates the crunchy munchie. But that crunchy munchy stuff really changes people's lives. And Sean is the example of how lives can change.

Alison Stewart (10:46)

You're working with Harrison Ford in that scene. What have you learned from working with someone who is. It's Overworld used. But he is an icon.

Luke Tenney (10:54)

That's the word to use.

Alison Stewart (10:56)

It is the word.

Luke Tenney (10:57)

That's the one for him.

Alison Stewart (10:58)

Yeah, right.

Luke Tenney (10:59)

He is iconic. And I think what's real cool about H, this dude is like, he really is a workhorse. Like, I see your sign over there. Work hard and be nice to people. And my favorite people who I've seen in the industry, it's like, if you missing either one of those, the other one doesn't count. Like, if you work hard and you're not nice, it doesn't matter. If you're nice and you don't work, it doesn't matter. You need both. You need both to execute. H is the prime example of what that is. He's like a fake curmudgeon. He's like, that's just. That's just not who he is. He is giddy. He loves it. Which is crazy, too. Cause, like, when I meet people who see shrinking and they're like, oh, hey, are you the guy who plays Sean? I'm, like, thrilled. You know? Also, it's new for me, so I ain't tired enough of that. You know, Maybe I'll get tired later on and be respectful or whatever. But right now, I'm like, hey, yo, it's nice to see you. I always try to, like, holler and all of that. That's part of it. Like, for him, that curmudgeon might just Be. Because if he takes the time to talk to one person, he ain't never gonna get nowhere.

Alison Stewart (12:02)

Right.

Luke Tenney (12:02)

You know, that's not the case for me. Not everybody know Lieutenant, you know, but everybody knows Harrison freaking forward. So this dude, he's just cultivated this sort of, like, facade, so he get from place to place. It's probably why he became a pilot. You know, he's trying to get on the plane without having to worry about all the nonsense. I should ask him why, like, was that for efficiency, you know? But, like, he's the prime example of that. You know, the kindness really greases the wheels, and the. The. The hard work are the wheels, you know? Like, it's the gears. It's the. The thing that props up the whole machine. So, yeah, he's a prime example of that. And the main thing I learned was, like, all of our suspicions are correct. If you're a good person who works hard, it might just happen that you could become an icon. It helps when you look and sound like that. Yeah, sometimes at least a little. Like, why is he still so handsome? What is going on?

Alison Stewart (12:53)

Like, golly, we got a really nice text about you. This says, love how Luke plays Sean, a character whose growth comes clearly, painfully, for both the character and the audience who's been compelled to love him.

Luke Tenney (13:06)

Oh, my gosh. That's very sweet.

Alison Stewart (13:09)

That is a very sweet text.

Luke Tenney (13:10)

Who said that? Like a listener.

Alison Stewart (13:11)

Yeah.

Luke Tenney (13:11)

Hey, yo, thanks, dawg. That's very kind. I'm trying. I'm just trying to hold my own and this, like, comedy with a bunch of titans, so thank you.

Alison Stewart (13:21)

It's interesting. The show is about, like, chosen family, you know, Like, Jimmy shows up for Sean. Sean shows up for Jimmy's daughter Alice. Jimmy's mentor figure is Paul. What's it like? Sometimes it's very funny. Sometimes it's really sad. The show tell me a little bit about working between those two ideas, the comedy and the tragedy.

Luke Tenney (13:45)

Yeah. So Jason, he always says, and I can channel him a little bit. He's like, yeah, there's a fine line that we like to play between comedy and pathos, and I think that's what people want to see right now. He's so right. He's so right about that. Like, the reason why people are connecting to that so much is because gone are the days where we are looking for. And when I say we, I mean, like, the majority of viewers, the majority of fans of tv. Gone are the days where we're looking to see the same person we saw last week. You know, like, love Seinfeld. It's hilarious. The reason why it worked is because at that time, collectively, as a society, we needed to see people who we could identify, who we could trust. You know, even same with Fresh Prince. Like, I remember watching that show as a kid. I'm like, why is he still making this same dang mistake, bro? Like, the only time they actually complete an arc is, like, in the final season of a sitcom is usually where a character starts to kind of grow up a little bit. You know, we're in a new age. People want to see the reality. People want to see something that shows them that it's worth it. I think especially for people around my age, it's kind of a hopeless time. Like, you know, when I was a kid, we kind of were made these promises, if you work hard, you're a nice person, and you go to college, maybe you take out some loans, you'll be able to, like, get a house. There's so many people my age who will never own property, you know, so when we watch tv, we want to see. We want to see something real. We want to laugh, but we want to cry because, you know, we too busy working to be able to let them tears out. So it's nice to turn on a show that comforts you by, like, punching you in the stomach and then, like, giving you, I don't know, a nice, shiny red apple or something. You know, it's a little both sugar helping the medicine go down.

Alison Stewart (15:24)

I'm talking to actor Luke Tenney. You've recently joined Abbott Elementary. You've been with shrinking since the beginning, but you joined Abbott well into it, being on the air. What was it like to join the cast of Abbott elementary when they're off and running?

Luke Tenney (15:40)

Yeah, for real. It's so cool. That show's kind of like an elder brother to us on the lot. Cause, you know, Abbott was the titan on wb, like, the big shots, you know, and then we started shrinking, putting it together. We kind of knew it would be a good show. We didn't know it would be like the hit it is today. It's really speaking to people, which is really cool to be able to say. But, yeah, Abbott, they were doing this thing where it's the same thing. Comedy and pathos. They're just leaning harder into the comedy. And it's the old model of TV. You know, they got 22, 21 episodes a season. It's a true half hour, which really means 22 minutes. All of that's TV jargon for the listeners out there. But, like, if you guys pay attention to the way things used to be, TV shows, you know, they used to come on for, like, a whole school year. And now we're getting these streaming shows that come in. They're about half the episodes, but shrinking. We say it's a half hour, but it's like 35 minutes. That's like 15 extra minutes than something like Abbott. So all the technical stuff was different. You know, I go to that set, the camera swinging around. If it's panning, that's your scene partner. So if the camera's not on you when you're doing, like, the punchline, you gotta do it again. You gotta make sure everything's caught, captured, and has a sort of chemistry and a pluckiness that actually, you know, contributes to the style and the genre of the show. Whereas in shrinking, you know, we cross shoot a lot of time, the camera. There's two cameras running on one take of a certain scene, and then they can stitch it all together from different takes. It's different on Abbott, but at the same time, the heart of these projects are trying to make you laugh and also give you something that you need to be aware of in Abbott's case is you need to be aware. These teachers that are raising your kids, they are sacrificing everything just to make sure that they got reading, writing, and arithmetic. It's crazy out there for them.

Alison Stewart (17:27)

Yeah. It's interesting. Your character on Abbott recently shared that he has an ADHD diagnosis and he takes medication to help him. What were your thoughts about the way they handled it on the show? And first, let's start there.

Luke Tenney (17:43)

Shout out for me, Malcolm. Jamal Warner playing Theo Huxtable. I don't know if people, like, remember this, but when I was young, I was kind of felt like I had something. I had some letters, something. I don't know what. And I got family members who are diagnosed with adhd. But Theo Huxtable was a character who had dyslexia. He was always this bright kid, you know, but he struggled on tests. And then, like, seasons later on that show, he was a teacher. And then he was, like, working in a community center and was really kind of taking the lead in his community, helping these kids get their education. And I was like, wow, it's so cool that he's able to do all of that, even with a learning disorder. And now I look at my trajectory. I didn't know I wanted to be an actor at the time I was watching that. But I remember being heavily inspired by Theo's character for my Character Dominic, because it's the same thing. He's somebody with a diagnosis that, you know, is something that would be detrimental to here, especially at a young age. His time, it was stigmatized to take medication, to figure out how to. How to manage it. But to me, it's just a really cool, like, legacy. Because I was so inspired by that storyline with Theo that now as Dominic, I kind of feel like, in a contemporary way, that's a pretty common diagnosis for a lot of these kids because of the state of the world right now, because of the state of technology. And it's really cool to see somebody like that in a position of education.

Alison Stewart (19:08)

Let's listen to a clip from Abbott elementary. In this scene. It's kind of a misunderstanding of a conversation that happens earlier around your character having adhd. He thought he heard Barbara talking about it, and it leads Jacob to thinking that Dom McNick, you know, might be gay. This is Abbott Elementary.

Luke Tenney (19:26)

I could use some advice. Come in. Sit. Let me share my wisdom. I don't want to make a big thing of this, but that conversation in the lounge yesterday, I can't shake it. I totally hear you 100% on the same page, but what are you talking about? Well, you know, Mrs. Howard and Ms. Shimenti were talking, and Mrs. Howard shared some opinions that didn't sit right with me. Cause I'm that way, so it was a little offensive. Oh, my God. I didn't realize you were. Well, I am.

Alison Stewart (19:57)

Abbott elementary has a distinct rhythm. It's comedic rhythm. What is it, yo?

Luke Tenney (20:02)

Well, first, let me shout out Chris Profetti. That dude. He's nailed some sort of physical expression of what he's doing vocally so well, to the point where you can imagine what he's physically doing. Come sit. Like, you can hear the. You can hear the energy in his veins as he's doing his pseudo Jack Sparrow kind of motions. So shout out to him. Keeping it together when he was around was crazy hard. But I think that their style is something that's like. It's people in moments of crisis. That's kind of what Abbott is. There's always a crisis. There's always a fire to put out. Now, the reality is, it is in elementary school, so the crises are very different than something like the pit, you know, but they still mean the world to these teachers. And here's an opportunity for Jacob Hill to take someone under his wing. Of course, he thinks Dominic and him share the same orientation. Because Dominic over here trying to be, you know, euphemistic and make suggestions so he could have been clear on that front. But, yo, gaydhd, straightdhd is one of the funniest things I have ever read in my life. Oh, my goodness gracious me. I was looking that man in the face, fully prepared to be the actor I am trained to be. Okay, yeah. Like, I'm a theater guy. I could do this. I could lock in. This man asked me gay dhd and I broke three times just trying to keep it together. He's so funny, and he is so sincere. I was like, golly, I'm embarrassed, man. Like, I'm trying to be a professional over here. He keep making me laugh, but I finally got through it, you know? And it's one of the funniest scenes I've ever been in in my life.

Alison Stewart (21:37)

Because you are professional.

Luke Tenney (21:40)

I'm trying to, man, but it's so much fun to do that. It's a. It's a very different style of comedy than something like shrinking. And I'm a little less of a straight man in this show, which is fun for me because, you know, I feel like I'm kind of working through the steps as a comedic performer to, like, on my way to being given more challenging material. Like Chris. Chris gets very challenging material. It don't look that way because he just cold with it. You know, he good at his job.

Alison Stewart (22:06)

Well, you get to. You get to be challenged in the pit.

Luke Tenney (22:10)

Yeah, big time.

Alison Stewart (22:11)

I saw the episode early.

Luke Tenney (22:12)

Oh, you saw it?

Alison Stewart (22:13)

I saw it.

Luke Tenney (22:14)

This is Thirteen. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (22:15)

Dr. Cruz Henderson. How would you describe Dr. Cruz Henderson? Characters Will meet him shortly.

Luke Tenney (22:21)

Cool and collected. And, you know, there's something I want to say, but I can't say yet because the episode ain't out. But the way that they describe him using his name, that would. That to me was like a sort of, you know, he's somebody who's cruising. You know, he's somebody who's really just got it on lockdown. He's just confident. He trusts his training. He trusts the other healthcare providers around him. He just has this sort of hope that it's gonna work out, they're gonna crack it, you know, And I think that sort of presence is something that we haven't really seen on the pit. And I'm curious to see. Cause I haven't seen anything except, like, you know, what I went in to do ADR for, you know, like, voice matching. That's all I've seen in the show so far, so I can't wait.

Alison Stewart (23:03)

Oh, it's good.

Luke Tenney (23:04)

I'm glad to hear that. Cause I wouldn't know. I don't know.

Alison Stewart (23:07)

Was there any particular part of working on the. That really pushed you out of your comfort zone?

Luke Tenney (23:11)

Oh, yeah, all of it. Like, they don't have sides for the listeners. Sides are small little pieces of paper that have the scenes for the day. And usually on a set, if you're an actor, you go into your trailer and there's sides there for you next to your contract. You signed your contract. You grab your sides, you can rehearse your lines. Not on the pit. On the pit. It's just come, come, Ready? Yeah, we ain't got that. We ain't got that for you. The only time you see sides is when there's a very challenging medical scene and then you have a doctor, an actual doctor, who has written out your blocking. Like, what you would do if this were an actual hospital on the sides, which you must return back to the doctor before you, like, go to lunch. They're very, very specific about it.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (23:57)

Oh, interesting.

Luke Tenney (23:58)

Them scripts are not getting lost floating around in the ether. So the doctor needs to make sure they got all the sides before you break. It's really, really exciting. So, yeah, the biggest challenge there is acting. Like, I know what I'm talking about.

Alison Stewart (24:13)

I want to tell people that you attended the American Musical and Dramatic Academy, the College of Performing Arts. And you think about someone in the academic sense learning how to train, learning how to be an actor. What is something that you go back to from those days that you use regularly in your life as a working actor?

Luke Tenney (24:34)

I got a quote from one of my favorite teachers, Ray Verda. He said, there are rarely emotional solutions to technical problems, but there are always technical solutions to emotional problems. I think about that every day. Most people look at acting and they think this is an emotional thing that you have to do, and they're correct. But the reality is, most of the stuff that you see is setting up the few moments of emotion that anchor the whole story. You know, it's like, I don't know, thinking off the top of my head. Take Daniel Kaluuya and get out. This guy's incredible, right? For the majority of the movie, he's not in the Sunken Place that one time, though. He has to be ready and prepared when Kathryn Keener starts tapping that. That tea glass. Oh, my gosh. It's so juxtaposed from the casual conversation that you spend with Rose and Daniel's character in the car when they end up hitting the deer and when they're just doing the dinner stuff, like, you got to know how to just communicate like a normal human being first. Once you get that on lock, then you can start cracking those emotional issues with your technique. So the foundation of technique will free you into discovering those emotional places that your character will go. So, yeah, I think about that every single time. Every time the emotion is a tough nut for me to crack, I just go back to technique and think about what physically I need to make sure my character is doing. Do I understand these words? Like, does my character know what he's talking about here? Am I lying? What's my point of view? What's my relationship to who I'm talking to? Where am I coming from? Like, the basics, you know? So, yeah, I think about that frequently, and it helps me.

Alison Stewart (26:17)

I'm gonna read one more text. Our listeners love you, by the way. This says one of the most engaging things about how Luke plays his character is how he uses quiet to be loud, calm as power. Standing face to face with these legends shows the path he is on in his career. Keep going.

Luke Tenney (26:34)

Who is sending these texts?

Alison Stewart (26:37)

Our listeners are great.

Luke Tenney (26:38)

Yeah. Like T.S. eliot. Y' all writing poetry over here. What's going on, man? Thank you. Yo, and, yeah, that. You. You discover my tricks here. Yeah, you can see, I. I try to. I try not to lean into, like, the typical, but I also try not to over complicate things. So I just. I just think, like, if my character is real mad, what if he's quiet here? You know, if my character's really nervous, what if instead of him fidgety, he's frozen? I just try to think about, like, the opposite and just see how that goes. And what's great about TV and film is you got takes. So I can do the stereotypical, traditional route if I'm asked to, but it's a good opportunity for me to explore some things that are a little bit of a risk. And I feel very seen by that last one. Golly. Like, yeah, those are my tricks as a performer. I've been a big dude my whole life, so when I started on stage, I was like, they gonna see me. I should move with purpose. Can't miss me. There's a big old dude over there. Look at that giant head. He got them clown feet, you know? Like, I should move with great specificity and purpose. Otherwise, I'm just gonna be distracting. So that allowed me to understand that I am not the actor who's a sculptor who takes the giant block of clay and knocks all the stuff that's not the piece out of the way until you reveal a statue. That's not me. I'm a painter. So I start with the blank space, I start from neutral, and then I add, and then I mix colors and then I go there. But the reason why I use those analogies is because a lot of my favorite actors are sculptors. Like, they throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and then you whittle away and then reveal the character. But for me, I start kind of from base, Luke. And then I add the character on from there because, you know, there's a lot of clay. In my case, you know, you can

Alison Stewart (28:28)

watch Abbott elementary, you can watch the Pit, and of course, you can watch Shrinking to see actor Luke Tenney. Luke, thanks for coming to the studio.

Luke Tenney (28:35)

Yo, this was great. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Your questions were awesome and you got a great vibe. Congrats to you on these eight years. I'm happy for you.

Alison Stewart (28:42)

Thank you.

Luke Tenney (28:43)

Cheers.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (28:44)

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