Allison Russell's 'The Returner'

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "All Of It" – Allison Russell's 'The Returner'

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Koosha Navodarman (for Alison Stewart)
Date: March 29, 2024
Episode Focus: An in-depth conversation and live performance with musician and songwriter Allison Russell about her Grammy-winning album, The Returner.

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Main Theme/Overview

This episode of All Of It spotlights Allison Russell, a Montreal-born, Nashville-based musician whose latest album, The Returner, has garnered critical acclaim and a Grammy. The discussion dives into Russell’s artistic inspirations, her creative process, and the personal and communal stories embedded in her music. The episode also features a powerful live performance and highlights the role of mentorship, community, and heritage in contemporary Americana and country music.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Women's History Month & Producer's Choice

• The show is part of a special "Producer Picks" series celebrating Women's History Month, chosen by producers Luke Green and Elle Malik Anderson, featuring outstanding women in culture and music.
• Allison Russell is spotlighted for her role in the "new progressive country or Americana movement," centering women and people of color in Nashville (05:18).

2. The Genesis of "The Returner"

• Inspiration at Joni Mitchell’s Newport Concert:

  • The idea for the title track originated after Russell participated with Joni Mitchell at the "Surprise Joni Jam" at Newport.
  • She described this as a "mystical, transcendent moment" witnessing Mitchell’s creative return against enormous odds (06:14).
  • Russell began the concept by writing a poem, calling Mitchell "Our Lady Returner," and notes that the song’s gestation took several months.

• On Joni Mitchell’s Impact:

  • Russell credits Joni Mitchell as a profound influence:

    "Just on my humanity, on my artistry. The reason I play clarinet...was because of the sound on [Mitchell's] record, Ladies of the Canyon." (07:16)

  • She fondly recalls performing with Mitchell—a full-circle moment for her as a fan and fellow musician (07:16).

3. Songwriting Process and Influences

• Russell explains her intuitive, exploratory songwriting:

  "I never know what I'm writing about. I write to find out what it is I'm writing about. It's the exploration." (08:08, paraphrasing Joe Henry)

• Her influences are multifaceted, drawing from people, experiences, and especially place—particularly her meditative walks in Nashville’s Shelby Bottoms nature preserve (09:07).

• Shelby Bottoms as Creative Space:

  • Russell describes it as “a beautiful nature preserve in the heart of the city” where time seems suspended (09:07).
  • Her creative process is deeply tied to nature, reflection, and walking her rescue dog, Millie the Moocher.

4. Making the Album: Community & Studio Stories

• Due to vinyl production delays, the album was recorded three months ahead of schedule—an experience Russell views as “serendipitous” (10:29).

• The recording took place over the 2022 winter solstice at the legendary Jim Henson Studios, whose legacy includes landmark albums from Joni Mitchell, Carole King, and Tina Turner (10:29).

• Kermit Connections:

  • Russell credits Kermit the Frog for sparking her love of the banjo (11:31).
  • She remarks, “Before I knew anything about my own African diaspora...I play banjo because of Kermit the Frog.” (11:35)
  • The studio’s archway, adorned by Kermit, greeted the musicians each day (11:58).

• The album features an all-star circle of women musicians, whose aligned schedules allowed a brief, intense, and magical session (10:30).

5. Live Performance: "Eve Was Black"

• Russell performs “Eve Was Black” solo, offering what she calls a “bare bones version” to foreground the song’s emotional core (12:06).
• She introduces the song as “an open letter...to my adoptive father, who was my primary abuser in childhood" (12:06).
• The thematic focus: the intertwined legacies of personal trauma and the ideology of white supremacy, concluding with an invitation to “rejoin the circle of equal humanity.”
  • Quote:

    “There are a lot of people suffering from the disease of the false ideology of white supremacy. So this is an invitation to rethink… understand that the most powerful thing any human can ever do is say, ‘I’m sorry. I was wrong.’” (12:06)

✨ Notable Performance Moment

• Russell’s performance is described by the host as an emotionally intense “conversation through music”—enhanced by her physical movement and presence while playing (17:34).
  • Quote:

    “That I’m shook, I guess, is the right word for that right now.” — Koosha Navodarman (17:34)

6. The Role of Artistic Ancestors: The Onstage Altar

• Russell keeps photos of Mavis Staples, Joni Mitchell, and Prince near her while performing as a personal “altar of inspiration” and tribute to her musical and activist forebears (18:19).
• She intends to add Sinead O’Connor and Tracy Chapman to this altar, which reminds her of her purpose and community (18:19).
  • Quote:

    “It just helps remind me… whose footsteps we’re following in and whose shoulders we’re standing on and what inspires me and what I want to bring forward…” (18:19)

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Notable Quotes

• On Artistry & Influence:

  "[Joni Mitchell had an impact] just on my humanity, on my artistry. The reason I play clarinet..." (07:16)

• On Nature and Creative Process:

  "You feel like you stepped into another time and another world even in the midst of the city." (09:07)

• On Racial Legacies and Healing:

  “This is an invitation to rethink and to join this…circle of equal humanity and understand that the most powerful thing any human can ever do is say, ‘I’m sorry, I was wrong.’” (12:06)

• On Musical Community:

  "We had six days where we could all align our stars and spheres and schedules, and we got to record at the old A and M studios, which is now Jim Henson Studios, presided over by Kermit the Frog." (10:29)

• On Iconic Inspiration:

  “The reason I play banjo is Kermit.” (11:31)

• On Artistic “Ancestors”:

  “…these are artists whose music and whose…activism has also inspired me.” (18:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Producer Introduction & Episode Theme – 01:57–04:03
• Opening Remarks About Allison Russell – 04:03–05:56
• Inspiration for "The Returner" & Joni Mitchell Influence – 06:14–08:02
• Artistic Process & Influence (Songwriting Discussion) – 08:08–08:50
• Shelby Bottoms and Creative Practice – 09:07–10:29
• Recording the Album: Jim Henson Studios & Collaborators – 10:29–11:29
• Kermit the Frog and Banjo Inspiration – 11:31–11:58
• Live Performance: “Eve Was Black” – 12:06–17:34
• Host's Reaction & Performance Reflection – 17:34–17:52
• Russell’s Onstage Altar and “Artistic Ancestors” – 18:19–18:59

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Memorable Moments

• Russell’s candid description of music as personal healing and a statement against white supremacy.
• Her heartfelt tribute to Joni Mitchell, both musically and as a personal hero.
• Her lighthearted but profound connection to Kermit the Frog and the legacy of the Jim Henson Studios.
• The spiritually charged live performance of “Eve Was Black,” described by the host as “shook.”
• The revelation of her onstage altar as a living tribute to her mentors and the ongoing circularity of artistic tradition.

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Episode Takeaway

Allison Russell’s The Returner is more than a musical project—it’s a celebration of artistic inheritance, a reckoning with histories painful and joyful, and an exercise in radical community-making. The episode is rich with personal testimony, live artistry, and cultural reflection, making it essential listening for anyone interested in the soul of contemporary roots music.

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Transcript

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[Radio Host/Producer]

I'm going to put you on nephew.

[Koosha Navodarman]

All right unc.

[McDonald's Employee]

Welcome to McDonald's.

[Alison Russell]

Can I take your order?

[Radio Host/Producer]

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[Radio Host/Producer]

Listener support WNYC Studios.

[Koosha Navodarman]

You're listening to all of it on wny. Welcome back to nyc. I'm Kusha Navodarman for Alison Stewart. Thanks to those of you who came to our get lit with all of it book club event last night with author Social Gonzalez. We spent the month reading her novel Anita Damonte Laughs Last. And we also heard a special performance from Caridad de la Luz. Spoken word poet, singer, songwriter and executive director of the Nuyorican Poets Cafe. Stay tuned for the radio broadcast of the event next week. And if you missed the event but you want to come to the next book club, good news. Our April get lit author is Stephen Graham Jones will spend the month reading his novel My Heart is a Chainsaw for our event with him on Monday, April 29th. RSVP. You can get your free tickets now at wnyc.org getlit okay, now on to today's show. Today we're presenting a special Producer Picks show. That's when the Always hard working producers from Team Olivet introduce some of their favorite segments they've helped create for you. So today you'll hear from producers Luke Green and Elle Malik Anderson. And in celebration of Women's History Month, they've selected segments that feature some of their favorite conversations with women who are doing great things from musicians, actors, directors. We've got it all now. I've got Luke Green with me in the studio right now. Hi, Luke.

[Luke Green]

Hello, Koosha.

[Koosha Navodarman]

So how are we gonna start today's show?

[Luke Green]

Yeah, so we're gonna start with musician and singer songwriter Alison Russell. I know you were a fan. Alison grew up in Montreal, but is now based in Nashville and actually produced a listening party for her debut album Outside Child a few years back. It received some Grammy nominations. And last summer she released a follow up album called the Returner. And we were lucky that she actually came to the studio to play live. And actually, Koosha, it just so happens that you. You were the host of that conversation. So what do you remember that impressed you the most about your interview?

[Koosha Navodarman]

Yeah, there was so much. Luke. You know, one thing that I really remember sticks out to me are these photos that she had on the floor right in front of her while she was playing her banjo. And I just remember her talking about the photos and the people in them and the experience she had learning from them and being influenced by them. And it really grounded everything she was playing in history and in intimacy, and that really struck me. So I hope listeners feel like they get a piece of that while they're listening. How about you? What. What stuck out to you?

[Luke Green]

Yeah, you will hear her talk about those photos. I. I'll say for selfish reasons. The reason I chose this segment predominantly is because I really love one song on the album, which is the title track. So let's hear that now.

[McDonald's Employee]

Goodbye so long farewell all I through oblivion Throw me in the ocean Ooh see if I can swim I'm well again I'm a S.A. again.

[Alison Russell]

I come.

[McDonald's Employee]

10 million miles Ooh, I'm burning so.

[Luke Green]

That is Cooper Turner by Alison Russell. But I also chose her because it's Women's History Month and Alison Russell is at the forest foreground, I guess, of what I would classify as like a new progressive country or Americana movement in Nashville centering women and people of color in the country music industry. You know, the new Beyonce album is also trying to point out that women and people of color were at the center of country music. And she also was just like a delightful person to work with. I mean, I've only hugged, like, a few guests after the interview, and she was one of them because she was just so joyous. And personal reasons, it's just always fun to revisit conversations with a guest that was so delightful.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Absolutely. I had the same experience. So let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Alison Russell for her new album, the Returner. So we heard the title track of the album in the intro, the Returner. Do you remember the moment that song came to you?

[Alison Russell]

You know, the idea of the Returner started gestating when I was on stage with Joni Mitchell at the Surprise Joni Jam at Newport last summer. And I ended up writing a poem about that experience and about her after it. And in the poem, I called her Our Lady Returner. And it was such a mystical, transcendent moment to be part of this, to watch this artist returning who had been told not only that she wouldn't sing or play again, but that she wouldn't walk or talk again. And the kind of grit and grace and sheer will that she has overcome, the last aneurysm she experienced with. And to be in circle with her, in creative communion with her, was so inspiring. And so that notion of a returner came to me after that. And I think the song started gestating then, but it didn't. I didn't finish writing it, JT and Drew. And I didn't finish writing it until about. Let's see, it would have been November that we finished writing it.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Joanie's had a huge impact on your career, right?

[Alison Russell]

Oh, just on my humanity, on my artistry. The reason I play clarinet. I mean, the sound of the clarinet imprinted on me when I was, you know, not even three. I think I was probably not even two. I remember hiding under my mom's piano, and she was playing along with Joanie's record, Ladies of the Canyon. And on that record, there's a deeper cut, a song called For Free. And at the end of the song, there's a beautiful clarinet solo. And I remember the sound of the clarinet and being entranced by it. It's like it imprinted on me. And so to come full circle and then get to be on stage playing clarinet and singing harmonies with Joanie was extraordinary. Thank you, Brandi Carlisle, for all the good things that you've brought into my life, including that Takes a Village. Right?

[Koosha Navodarman]

Do you feel like a lot of your music comes from influences in people or in reflections of yourself or a mixture of.

[Alison Russell]

I think it's all of it. I Think it's difficult for anyone to know what is influencing them at any given moment, whether or not they're writing something about it. I think we are. We all contain multitudes and we. Our ears are never turned off, we're hearing all the time and we're influenced by everything we hear. So I think it's really difficult to pinpoint sometimes what my friend Joe Henry, I'm going to misquote him, but he said something really beautiful about writing. He said I never know what I'm writing about. I write to find out what it is I'm writing about. It's the exploration and I think there's a lot of truth to that. And there are songs that, that I write or co write and I think it's one thing and it evolves into something totally other.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Yeah, absolutely. And like the people, the experiences and the places too. Right. For instance, you got the ideas for a majority of these songs during walks I've learned in Shelby Bottoms in East Nashville near where you live. Can you describe Shelby Bottoms for those of us?

[Alison Russell]

It's a beautiful nature preserve in the heart of the city of Nashville. It's a many miles long green belt with a lot of different ecological systems, a lot of native plant life being preserved and it is just a really beautiful place. You feel like you stepped into another time and another world even in the midst of the city. And we have a rescue pup named Millie the Moocher. And I've been taking her for when I'm home, which is not often these days. In the last two years since Outside Child was released. But when I'm home I will take Millie for miles long walks through the forest. And there's lots of a paved path, but you can go on trails all throughout the woods. And so we, we leave the paved path and we go onto the trails and commune with the mycelial network and the trees and the birds and the. And the deer and bugs. You know, it's just. It's joyful. So a lot of it, yeah, a lot of the album as we were sort of feverishly finishing the songs in a three month period because of. We had to record it three months earlier than originally planned due to all the vinyl delays that are occurring worldwide. And we wanted to have vinyl in time the release. And so our, our wonderful label, Stephanie Hopson, who's here with me today, let us know if we. If we wanted a record by September, we would have to deliver a master before the end of 2022. So we moved everything up.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Oh my gosh.

[Alison Russell]

By three months. And. And it ended up being. It ended up being the most serendipitous, beautiful thing because we were able to have this conjunction of the, you know, the 16 incredible artists. Elena Canlas, Shanti Ross, Elizabeth Pupa, Walker, Ganessa James, Joy Clark, Carenza Peacock, Larissa Maestro, L. Lisa Coleman, Mandy Fair, Megan Coleman, Meg McCormick, Monique Ross, Wendy Melvoan, and Victoria Bialik, who all joined me. We had six days where we could all align our stars and spheres and schedules, and we got to record at the old A and M studios, which is now Jim Henson Studios, presided over by Kermit the Frog. Joni recorded Blue there. Joanie recorded Court and Spark there. Carole King recorded Tapestry there. They did. Tina Turner blew up We Are the World there. You know, all of it happened there. And we got to. We got to make this record. And we did it over the salts. We didn't even. It was so witchy. Without us realizing it, it was over the solstice of December 2022, and our last final day of tracking was December 22, 2022.

[Koosha Navodarman]

I gotta ask. Are you a Jim Henson fan?

[Alison Russell]

A huge Jim Henson fan. The reason I play banjo is Kermit.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Because of Kermit the Frog.

[Alison Russell]

A thousand. Before I knew anything about my own African diaspora and heritage and the banjo being, you know, America's African instrument, I. Before I met Rhiannon and learned all about that. I play banjo and I love the banjo because of Kermit the Frog. Oh, wow.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Was it Rainbow Connection?

[Radio Host/Producer]

What was it?

[Alison Russell]

Yes, of course.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Yeah.

[Alison Russell]

I remember the first greatest songs of all time ever.

[Koosha Navodarman]

And so there you are for six days in that studio getting together. Yes.

[Alison Russell]

It was incredible. And every day, Kermit greeted us because he sits atop the archway as you drive in.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Could we hear you talk to us through music?

[Alison Russell]

Absolutely. I can do a really strict. The songs have to be able to live as they're in their sort of most naked, elemental form. The bones have to be good enough for me to present it to the incredible circle of artists that I get to inhabit these songs with. So this is a bare bones version of Eve Was Black. It's nice to get back to basics. This is kind of an open letter in the form of a song to my adoptive father, who was my primary abuser in childhood, who was raised in a Sundowntown expat American who came up to Montreal and wreaked havoc because of the abuse that he had suffered. And I consider ideological abuse to be one of the worst forms of abuse. There are a Lot of people suffering from the disease of the false ideology of white supremacy. So this is an invitation to rethink and to join this. Rejoin the circle of equal humanity and understand that the most powerful thing any human can ever do is say, I'm sorry, I was wrong.

[McDonald's Employee]

Eve was black haven't you heard? The mother of our was dark and good Eve was black didn't you know? Is that why you hate my black skin so? Is that why you hate my black skin so? Do I remind you of what you love lost? Do you hate or do you lust do you despise or do you year to return to return to return Back to the motherland Back to the garden Back to your black skin Back to the innocence Back to the shine you lost when you enslaved your kin.

[Michaels Party Shop Announcer]

Why.

[McDonald's Employee]

Did you try to touch my hair? Do you hope to find a blessing there? Why do you try to keep me in the do you hope to sow this barren ground with my black blood, black magic blood with my black blood, black magic blood Do I remind you of what you lost? Do you hate or do you lust do you despise or do you yeah do you return to return to return Back to the motherland Back to the garden Back to your black skin Back to the innocence Back to the shine you lost when you enslaved your kin? What do you hope for as you tie the rope? What do you hope for as you hoist me up? What do you hope for as you watch me swing? Will the witness tree salvation break? Do I remind you what you love? Do you hate or do you lust do you despise or do you year do it do retail do retail Back to the motherland Back to the gaiden Back to your black skin Back to the innocence Back to the shine you lost when you enslaved your own kin oh, my father, oh, my mother oh, my sister oh my brother oh my cousin I'm my pain can't wash this sin can't wash this sin can't wash this sin with my black blood with blood O yeah O yeah O yeah oh Back to the garden Back to your black skin Back to the innocence Back to the God the God.

[Koosha Navodarman]

We'Re listening to, Alison Russell. That I'm shook, I guess, is the right word for that right now. Thank you so much for playing that. I just want to say, first of.

[Alison Russell]

All, it's an honor. It's an honor to be here and to get to play and to get to be in conversation and community, in real life, in real time.

[Koosha Navodarman]

Yeah. That in person, the word conversation was Just in the front of my mind the whole time you were playing that because it felt like you were talking to me, both with what you were singing, but also through the movement. And for those of you who aren't here, obviously, besides me and Alison, there's almost like a dance that you get into while you're playing that. Every verse, there's a little bit more swaying. And I noticed another physical element to the song are the pictures that you have right in front of you on the floor. Can you talk that through a little bit? Who are those pictures of?

[Alison Russell]

When I go on stage, I sort of bring a little altar of inspiration. And I have a picture of Mavis Staples, of Joni Mitchell and of Prince, And I'm missing Sinead o' Connor and Tracy Chapman. I need to find pictures of them to add to my altar. But it just helps remind me of what, you know, whose footsteps we're following in and whose shoulders we're standing on and what inspires me and what I want to bring forward and the kind of circle work, deep circle work that I want to do and just to be inspired. You know, these are artists whose music and whose not just their music, but whose activism has also inspired me.

[Koosha Navodarman]

That was my conversation with musician Alison Russell about her new album the Returner. She won a Grammy this year for best American roots performance. All right, who's next after the break? Luke.

[Radio Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Luke Green]

So up next, television's favorite talent manager, Alex Boorstein, who of course played Suzie Meyerson in the hit series the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. She joined us last year to speak about her new comedy special. It's a great interview.

[Koosha Navodarman]

That's going to be great. Okay, that's after a quick break. Stay with us.

[Michaels Party Shop Announcer]

Attention, party people. You're officially invited to the party shop at Michael's where you'll find hundreds of new Items starting at 99 cents with an expanded selection of party wear balloons with helium included on select styles, decorations and more. Michaels is your one stop shop for celebrating everything from birthdays to bachelorette parties and baby showers to golden anniversaries. Visit Michaels store or michaels.com today to supply your next party.

[Radio Host/Producer]

I'm gonna put you on nephew.

[Alison Russell]

All right.

[McDonald's Employee]

Welcome to McDonald's.

[Alison Russell]

Can I take your order, miss?

[Radio Host/Producer]

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.