Adrienne Edwards (2:55)

Well, I would say first, the Whitney actually has a wonderful history around dance. In particular, Tricia Brown had a wonderful performance here where they Walked the walls in 1971. So there is some precedence to which Ailey arrives here at the Whitney. But without a doubt, this show is a tremendous commitment on the part of the museum to dance by spotlighting Mr. Ailey's. And this show, which I have come to call an extravaganza because it unfolds in so many different ways, certainly is one of the most ambitious projects we've ever done at the museum.

David Fuerst (3:38)

What do we get to see at this show?

Adrienne Edwards (3:42)

So it sort of unfolds in two parts. The first is the exhibition, which is on our fifth floor. It is about 18,000 square feet, so pretty significant, substantial. And then have a live performance program that will be happening in our theater on the third floor. And that happens on an almost weekly basis from now until February 9th. In fact, tomorrow we welcome the Ailey Company to the museum for the what will be the first week of their five week residency at the museum. That residency is happening one week every month during the run of the show. So that's how we get to five in the galleries. It's, I think, probably an exhibition unlike any I've certainly seen before. It occurs on three levels. There is an 18 screen surround, which is how I describe it. The surround is made from this incredible repository of videos that are from the period during Mr. Ailey's lifetime. So let's just say from when he starts the company in 1958 and until 1989 when he passes away from AIDS related complications. So that was done with a duo, a great filmmaker duo, Josh Begley and Kia Lu, who went with me through the archive, the visual archive, and many, many deep, deep ways. And we composed this incredible video. So that's how Alien in many ways shows up in the. In the exhibition. It envelops. It is almost as though he is embracing the entire space. And you see all of the key dances that we all know and love. So Revelations and Cry, et cetera. There are so many in there. MASAKELA LANGAGE QUINTET and then we have in the space the gift of Mr. Ailey's archive. So you can see what he thought, what he was working on, what he was reading, the things he was obsessed with. It's both a professional life and also a private life. And what is so compelling is the ways in which they sit right next to one another in these notebooks in particular, and those are in these sort of gym cases, these vitrines that are scattered throughout the floor. And then we have these Artworks. There are 82 artists specifically who are included in the show. And these works are positioned on almost like island structures, so it feels a little bit like an archipelago. And the earliest work is from 1851. And then there's a number of works that were made, especially on the occasion of the show.

David Fuerst (6:41)

I want to talk about the space a little bit more. When you walk off the elevator at this show, you enter this open space with red colors, music, sounds from Ailey's archive, these bright screens you were talking about on the walls. How much did you consider that first reaction people would have at this show?

Adrienne Edwards (7:02)

Well, I think I thought about it a lot. Exhibition design is not the easiest of things. And what was clear to me is that we could have no white walls. For Mr. Ailey, it just didn't seem appropriate to the sparkle that he brought to his work and his own sensibility. So that was. That felt very important. But it's also a deep acknowledgement that the exhibitions are staged, that we want people to arrive into a very exciting, dynamic experience. And performance allows this to happen, I think, in very compelling ways in a gallery context. So I think that that certainly was the ambition. The color red is notable because Mr. Ely described his work as being about blood memories, which is how he talked about the soulfulness, the ritual, the spiritualness of the Deep South. He was from Texas, born there in Rogers, Texas, in 1931. So that's something that he carried with him. And so I think red is also important because when we as viewers typically go see the company, we're seeing them in proscenium stages. Right. Like, that's the place that we usually have come to know the work. And those places are typically red velvet curtains and red velvet seeds. So red also signals the performing arts venues in which the work is still circulates in such wonderful ways today. And then there are these little churches throughout the South. I'm from the south, so I know this personally. And they're often with red carpet and red pews. So red just seemed to be the perfect color for this exhibition. So we took a risk and went with it.

David Fuerst (8:57)

We are speaking with Adrienne Edwards with the Whitney Museum about this new exhibition about Alvin Ailey, Edges of Ailey. It opens to the public tomorrow. Right. And is on view it does through February 9th. Now, you got your PhD in Performance Studies from NYU and in the past, have curated the Whitney's performance program. When did you first become aware of Alvin Ailey?

Adrienne Edwards (9:26)

Gosh. I mean, Ailey is the first art experience I ever had in my life.

David Fuerst (9:32)

Wow.

Adrienne Edwards (9:34)

Yeah. As a kid, I would go see the company, and I have made sojourns to see them almost every year of my life. So it's something that is very near and dear to me. And in fact, I had thought that perhaps maybe I was too close to Ailey to be able to have some perspective and do the show. But that was all dispelled when I got into those notebooks.

David Fuerst (10:03)

Those notebooks that you just thought, oh, my gosh, I've got to be part of making this happen. Getting these on display.

Adrienne Edwards (10:12)

Yes, because it's very hard to do. I think one of the hardest exhibitions to make is a. Is an exhibition that is about an ephemeral form, a form that is fleeting. A form that we expect to see live bodies in front of us and can see them sweat and see their muscles contract. It's a very sensual experience. So it's a challenging thing to bring that kind of, you know, the sensuality of the body and of the music. And, you know, it's a highly sensorial realm in which to work. And so it's a real challenge to do that in an exhibition context.

David Fuerst (10:54)

How much of an influence was Alvin Ailey on you? And did you dance?

Adrienne Edwards (11:00)

I did dance. I danced as a child. I started very young at about. And I danced until I was in college. I don't think I was particularly good at it. So I moved on to art history.

David Fuerst (11:13)

We can study dance.

Adrienne Edwards (11:15)

Yes.

David Fuerst (11:17)

We were talking about the journals and the ideas and his visions of choreography. What do these journals reveal about Alvin Ailey's creative process?

Adrienne Edwards (11:32)

I mean, he. One of the things that was very noticeable is that you could tell if he was sitting in a dark room in rehearsal because. And writing in the journal, because his handwriting is much larger and looped and often on and diagonal. And there are all of these sort of thoughts. There's commentary about specific dancers. There's sketches of ideas about. Just almost thematic ideas about how. What he's thinking about and what he wants to do. And he often started with music. It's one of the things that was very noticeable about him. I mean, there are many ways to choreograph. One way is you can create these notational systems. Another way, which was Mr. Ailey's way or his way, is a kind of hybrid of these two things. But I would say the way he did it mostly was far more improvisational. He liked to kind of start with music and. And then set the dances directly on dancers in the rehearsal process. Rehearsal was something that was really, really important to him. And so that's why, sort of seeing the notes he's making in rehearsal and his commentary. I mean, when he toured, he would write vast descriptions around the most mundane things that he did what he had for breakfast, what happened late at night in the hotel, to real contemplation about what does it mean to be showing this work in Vietnam in 1962. So you can see him grappling with why are they receiving the company in such a positive way? Or there's not enough branding and posters in certain neighborhoods where he imagined that they should be. But we also observed through the archive that the company, during his lifetime, performed more in community centers and high school gymnasiums than they did in performing arts theaters. Now, that is incredible and might help us understand why it is that the company resonates with so many people across the world.

David Fuerst (13:37)

I want to read a quote that you include in the show. Alvin ailey was born 1931, as you mentioned, lived the first years of his life in rural Texas. And the quote here, it's in the exhibition, it reads, I'm Alvin Ailey. I'm a choreographer. I'm a black man whose roots are in the sun and the dirt of the South. Talk about that quote. And how did those Southern roots come out in his art?

Adrienne Edwards (14:09)

I think it is indexed in very specific ways. Like, we found an archival video, for example, where you see a sort of procession to a baptism in water in a rural Southern location. Don't know specifically where it was, and the women are carrying these big white umbrellas. And then if we look at a dance like Revelations, we can see specifically this kind of indexing of the white umbrella and the procession as part of a baptismal ritual. In these dances, the south also shows up in the kinds of music that he was interested in. I mean, if you think about the spirituals and you think about the blues, the both sacred and profane parts of music coming out of this time in particular, in which he grew up is really important. It shows up, I think, in the break in the in between parts of the dances. So Ailey was a big believer that, you know, he said he didn't really have a methodology. Like, there was no technique necessarily. I would argue that his technique was in his selection of dancers and that he was looking for the ways that they individually would sort of show off, if you will. That is very much the same way that we understand how jazz music is played, how the blues are played, even the performance of gospel and spirituals. It's all about a kind of personal inflection in what you're bringing to the dances. So that's really incredible. So I think you see all of that in the video surround when we show these dances. But in the show there's also this wonderful section called Southern Imaginary. And it looks at the American south, but it also looks at Haiti. It looks at Brazil, in particular, Bahia. Mr. Ailey, we found a trove of research materials that he had been doing around samba, around condom blay and the devotional practices and the ways in which he was really looking at those and also bringing those into the dances. Jeffrey Holder had choreographed. Peace the Prodigal Prince, based on a painting by Hector Hippolyte called the Congo Queen, and in particular, also about Hector Hippolyte's life. And we have that painting in the show. So there are all these ways in which. And we have the research material I mentioned about Bahia in the show. So it shows this connective tissue that the American south is actually much broader than the southern United States. It's actually hemispheric.

David Fuerst (17:06)

We're speaking with curator Adrienne Edwards, talking about the new show Edges of Alien. We've been talking about how this is the first major museum exhibition devoted to him. We got a text from a listener who asks, this is the first exhibition on Alvin Ailey. What took so long?

Adrienne Edwards (17:26)

Good question. In fact, when I first started researching, I almost thought to myself, oh, I. Someone must have already done this. And I kept looking and looking, and in fact, no art museum has done it. There have been small installations in libraries, but not in the context of art museums. And yet there's been a proliferation of dance exhibitions, mostly around Balanchine or Lincoln Christine in terms of the ballet school or, as I mentioned, Tricia Brown, who was part of the Judson Dance Theater. There have been a lot of shows about Yvonne Rayner and those adjacent to it, like Merce Cunningham, but none about Ailey until now.

David Fuerst (18:21)

Well, Ailey lived with the pressures of being a gay black man in America. At the same time, the exhibition points out that one of the pillars of his practice was freedom and liberation. How do you weigh those two ideas when considering his work during this process?

Adrienne Edwards (18:41)

I think it's complicated. I mean, one of the things I did as part of this research was to go back and read a trope of material that looked at what did it mean to be gay in the 1930s, 50s, 60s. And it was. It was interesting because there were other people of this time that I. That found that felt to me as very resonant to Ely's experience. You know, Lorraine Hansberry, James Baldwin, Bayard Ruskin. I mean, it's like all of these figures had to contend with what it meant to be out or not out or out to selected few and also what it meant to be successful and to have careers. And I think it's an incredibly complicated story. And much like Lorraine Hansberry, they left it to the archive like they're feeling about it. When you go through these notebooks, you, you know, I immediately thought, oh, closeted to whom? Like, not. Not in the context of his own understanding of himself. They're wonderful meditations and reflections and character studies and poems and short stories that he wrote about his queerness and. And it's really lucky to be able to. To show it, but I knew I couldn't approach it with the mindset of what it. Of a sort of gay liberation sense that we have in 2024. It needed to be thought about and understood in relationship to the times in which it happened. And of course, he was part of that first wave that we lost. And we lost so many queer elders. I mean, my generation, we have so few elders who survived that moment, particularly artists. And it's been wonderful to kind of highlight or allow the public to see what he thought about it in his own words.

David Fuerst (20:56)

Now, before we wrap up, I have to ask you a little bit more about the performances that are going to be coming. Not only is there this art to see, but throughout the show's run, there's going to be these live performances and workshops at the Whitney from a number of Ailey companies and programs. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Adrienne Edwards (21:14)

Yeah. The way I like to think about it is it's like the Ailey Company is bringing its uptown operations to the museum downtown. So we'll have the Ailey Company, we'll have Ailey 2, which is the more junior company, will have their school programs, and we'll have the classes that they teach to the public. All of that will be happening here, and as I mentioned, one week every month during the run of the show. So from now until February 9th, and then, in true Ailey style, we selected, in the. We being the dance advisory committee, including myself and a group of folks who have been with Ailey for a very long time, looked at a lot of different choreographers works and made a very difficult selection to get it to 11 choreographers and their collaborators. And those folks have been either commissioned or invited to present dances on the occasion of the show. And those are happening in the intervening weeks when the company is not here. So it's, I think, a total of 90 performances taking place.

David Fuerst (22:26)

Wow. Okay. Clear your calendar.

Adrienne Edwards (22:29)

Yeah, it's going to be incredible. And we have free Friday nights, so folks could come. And from 5 to 10 see the show for free. And every second Sunday we also have free admission.

David Fuerst (22:45)

Very cool. And in the one minute that we have left, is there something about Ailey that you really hope attendees have a sense of when they leave the show?

Adrienne Edwards (22:56)

I hope that they walk away with being compelled by his sheer curiosity. I mean, one of the things that blew me away is that he was largely self taught. Like there were no BFA or MFA programs in dance when he started. So he would go around and try to take classes where he could. And he studied, of course, with Lester Horton as a teenager and early in his 20s. But you know, he was such putting him in conversation with all of these other artists is exactly what he did in his notebooks. It's exactly the way that he thought. And we're thrilled to show all these choreographers and theater folks and musicians who have influenced him too.

David Fuerst (23:43)

Well, that conversation continues at the Whitney Museum. We've been speaking with Adrian Edwards, with the Whitney Museum lead curator of a new exhibition opening at the Whitney tomorrow on choreographer Alvin Ailey. The show is called Edges of Ailey, on view through February 9th. Edwin, congratulations on the new show and thanks for joining us.

Adrienne Edwards (24:02)

Thank you, David. NYC now delivers breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening. By sponsoring our programming, you'll reach a community of passionate listeners in an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to learn more.