An Upstate Drama in 'The Rich People Have Gone Away'

Summary

---

Podcast Summary

All Of It with Alison Stewart: “An Upstate Drama in 'The Rich People Have Gone Away'”

Date: August 20, 2024
Guest: Regina Porter, author
Host: Alison Stewart

---

Episode Overview

This episode features novelist Regina Porter discussing her latest book, The Rich People Have Gone Away, a multi-layered drama set in upstate New York during the COVID-19 pandemic. The discussion dives into the novel’s genesis—including its surprising relationship to playwright Tom Stoppard—its nuanced characters, and how the pandemic exposed social inequities in contemporary life. Porter shares her creative process, character development, and the deeper symbolism behind her storytelling.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the Novel & Tom Stoppard’s Influence

• Meeting Stoppard as Catalyst: Porter reveals that her correspondence and meeting with Tom Stoppard informed her discipline and spurred her to develop this specific project.
  “...he actually read it and emailed me... So we would correspond occasionally. And finally I had the opportunity to meet him.” — Regina Porter (03:01)
• Stoppard’s Inquiry: After reading Porter’s previous work, Stoppard encouraged her to progress:
  “So he said, okay, what's next? And I kind of froze because I didn't really know...” — Regina Porter (03:43)

2. How COVID Inspired the Setting

• Atmospheric Observations: Porter's experience walking in Park Slope in April 2022 inspired her to capture the surreal social landscape:
  “I could smell the cleansers. There were no people around. I love horror films... It felt so much like that [zombie movie], and I had an encounter with a homeless woman.” — Regina Porter (04:12)
• Desire for Authentic Entry: Porter sought a respectful way to address pandemic realities and found her narrative voice through a new character.

3. Research and Commitment to Community

• Sense of Community: Conversations with restaurant and bookstore owners highlighted to Porter the mutual responsibility felt during crisis:
  “Again and again and again, I saw the responsibility in bookstores, bookstore owners, restaurants, people who understand the cost of living and feel a responsibility for their employees.” — Regina Porter (05:30)
• Emotional Core: Genuine care and responsibility stand out as themes, challenging the cliché of New Yorkers being cold.

4. Character Development and Themes

• Theo Harper’s Creation: Theo, an aesthetic advisor with a complex sense of identity, came to Porter first:
  “You have to have one thing about your character that's alive and real, and his sexuality is alive and real.” — Regina Porter (07:12)
• Writing Unlikable Characters: Porter emphasizes the importance of an “honor code”—even flawed or abrasive personalities have lines they won’t cross:
  “Every person has an honor code... Even the worst person has some honor code, some line... they will not cross.” — Regina Porter (07:48)
• Theo’s Racial Identity: Theo is white-presenting but has “30%” Black ancestry, which he keeps secret due to social complexities:
  “Class and race are so interlinked... Sometimes when we're talking about race, we're actually talking about class...” — Regina Porter (09:08)

5. Symbolism of Doors

• Portals and Change: The motif of doors—literal and figurative—runs through the novel as gateways to new realities and change:
  “Doors are a portal onto another place. They're also openings to a new life or change of life or freedom.” — Regina Porter (10:33)
• Humor and Physicality: The running joke about Theo’s affinity for doorways intertwines levity with deeper meaning.

6. Exploring Darla’s Character

• Musician and Motherhood: Darla is out of work, newly pregnant, and wrestling with her future and her marriage to Theo.
• Pregnancy Dynamics: Porter articulates how men and women experience pregnancy differently, with men tending toward pre-birth anxiety about responsibility:
  “I think the societal responsibilities of how am I going to... keep my family, afford the family... sometimes women take on the responsibility of, oh, my gosh, I have this child, and I'm going to have this child for the rest of my life.” — Regina Porter (13:13)
• Legacy of Trauma: Darla’s family was personally affected by 9/11, influencing her identity and musicianship.

7. Narrative Excerpt — Police Investigation (Reading)

• Intimate Interrogation: Porter reads a vivid scene where police question Theo after Darla’s disappearance.

  “These are the questions they ask when your wife disappears. What was she wearing the last time you saw her? Was she happy? Was she sad? Did you have an argument? ...”
  — Reading (15:19–17:58)

8. Broader Social Dynamics & COVID Inequity

• Xavier’s Story: The novel includes perspectives from Xavier, a Black teenager with a mother on a ventilator, reflecting the disparate impact of the pandemic:
  “One of the things that came to the forefront in Covid was some of the inequities in our society in a way that we can no longer deny.” — Regina Porter (18:36)
• Essential Workers and Tough Choices: The narrative pulls from real existential choices faced by marginalized families.

9. Interracial and Intercultural Dynamics (Ruby and Katsumi)

• Restaurant/Hotel Tensions: Ruby and Katsumi, a Black-Japanese married couple, place personal ideals and cultural assumptions in conflict, particularly over issues like housing homeless people in their property:
  “Ruby, she's idealistic...she would like to use the hotel they share to house homeless people... Katsumi...says, look, we don't have this kind of homelessness in Japan. We don't have these issues.” — Regina Porter (20:34–20:39)

10. Genealogy and Family Ties

• S. Alvin Harper: The inclusion of historical family photos hints at deeper, possibly unknown, genealogical influences in Theo's lineage.
  “I would say that Theo perhaps doesn't know how much the character comes from him.” — Regina Porter (21:42)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Porter on Doors (Symbolism):
  “Doors are a portal onto another place. They're also openings to new... to a new life or change of life or freedom.” — 10:32
• Porter on New Yorkers' Responsibility:
  “Again and again and again, I saw the responsibility in bookstores, bookstore owners, restaurants, people who understand the cost of living and feel a responsibility for their employees.” — 05:30
• On COVID’s Racial/Class Impact:
  “One of the things that came to the forefront in Covid was some of the inequities in our society in a way that we can no longer deny.” — 18:36
• Theo’s Defense of His Roots:
  “When he says, 'I'm from Iowa,' and if you're judgmental about that, he'll give it back to you a little bit...” — 08:07
• Narrative Excerpt (Theo’s Police Interview):
  “These are the questions they ask when your wife disappears. What was she wearing the last time you saw her?...” — 15:19–17:58

---

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• Meeting Tom Stoppard and early inspiration: 02:28–03:56
• Pandemic walks and inspiration: 04:05–05:11
• Community research and real-life stories: 05:22–06:26
• Character insights: Theo’s creation: 06:26–08:52
• Theo’s secrecy about race/class: 08:54–10:03
• Doors as metaphor: 10:03–11:30
• Darla’s background and motivations: 11:30–14:59
• Reading: Police questioning (narrative passage): 15:03–17:58
• COVID’s social inequities (Xavier’s story): 18:36–19:32
• Cultural clash: Ruby & Katsumi: 19:36–21:11
• Family photo S. Alvin Harper and genealogy: 21:11–21:48

---

Conclusion

Regina Porter’s appearance on All Of It gave listeners an intimate, thematic exploration of The Rich People Have Gone Away. Through candid conversation and a powerful narrative reading, Porter illuminated her process, the pandemic’s lingering effects on community and class, and the complexities of character and family. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in contemporary novels that combine social resonance with sharp literary craft.

Transcript

[Megan Roope]

Are you ready to change your mind about your body? We are flipping the script on fitness making movement that feels good and fits your life. I'm Megan Roope, celebrity trainer and founder of the Sculpt Society. I created this online fitness platform to be uplifting and flexible with sculpt, strength and dance cardio classes. From a 10 minute quickie to a 50 minute sweat, you will find programs for every stage of a woman's life including prenatal, postpartum, bridal and more. Start your two week free trial at.

[Regina Porter]

Thesculptsociety.Com podcast suffering from dry, tired, irritated eyes? Don't let dry eyes win. Use Sustain Pro. It hydrates, restores and protects dry eyes.

[Alison Stewart]

For up to 12 hours.

[Regina Porter]

Sustain Pro Triple Action Dry Eye Relief Listener Support WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In Regina Porter's latest book, the Rich People have Gone Away, it takes place during the pandemic, when a group of New Yorkers lives are turned upside down by the disappearance of one woman. Theo and Darla are married. Theo works in real estate in a vague but highly paid position as an aesthetic advisor. And Darla is a professional musician who was on Broadway until the pandemic. She's also in her first trimester of pregnancy. Like so many New Yorkers with means, the couple decides to escape the city for Darla's family cottage in the Catskills. It's there that during a hike, the two argue, Darla runs off and then disappears. In her absence. We learn about those in the couple's orbit her best friend who runs a restaurant, the kid in her apartment whose mom is on a ventilator, and how they all connect and how Covid has altered those connections as well. The book received a starred review in Kirkus, which called it a restless, intentionally unsettling novel that establishes Porter as a distinctive, confident literary voice. The Washington Post deemed it a truly great Covid novel, and if you want, you can add it to your list. Your summer list of all of its reading. All of its reading list is a novel about New York, which we'll get into in the next hour, but right now we're enjoying Regina Porter in Studio. Nice to see you.

[Regina Porter]

Hi, nice to be here.

[Alison Stewart]

So you wrote this novel after meeting Tom Stoppard? When did you meet Stoppard and how was he useful in setting up this novel?

[Regina Porter]

I actually met Stoppard at the PEN Faulkner Awards ceremony, but I was a fan of his work, his plays, because I started out as a playwright so, yes. And my first novel, the Travelers, features one of his plays. An African American soldier, Taylor reads Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead during the Vietnam War to kind of keep him sane. And so the UK publisher sent the play, the novel, to Stoppard, and he actually read it and emailed me to say that he was taking it with him to the jazz festival in New Orleans to finish it. So we would correspond occasionally. And finally I had the opportunity to meet him. Yeah, that's wild.

[Interviewer/Host]

And he wanted to know what's next for you.

[Regina Porter]

Well, you know. Yeah. He said, you know, I think he's a disciplined writer, and so you move to the next thing. So he said, okay, what's next? And I kind of froze because I didn't really know I was kind of working on something, but yeah. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, when did the idea of a COVID Pandemic, a novel set during the early days of the Pandemic, come to you?

[Regina Porter]

I was working on another project, and I went walking in park slope one day, April 2022. And it was a bit surreal. Everything was, again, kind of frozen in time a little bit. I could smell the cleansers. There were no people around. I love horror films. Sometimes they help me actually reset and think creat. I don't know why, but one of my favorites is like, is it 28 days later? The Zombie? And it felt so much like that. And I had an encounter with a homeless woman. I was wearing a mask. We were just starting to wear a mask.

[Detective Lutz]

And she was in a bad way.

[Regina Porter]

She didn't have a mask on, but I didn't want to. It disturbed me. It threw me. And I didn't want to really sort of take advantage of her story. So I went back home and I tried to figure a way, how do I find a way into what's happening? And this character, Theo Harper, came to me. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Before we get into the details of the characters, you did a lot of research for this book with police departments, owners of restaurants, and the like. What is something that you discovered that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Helps you tell this story? What's an example of something you discovered.

[Alison Stewart]

That you were able to use?

[Regina Porter]

Well, I mean, the sense of community, how much people care. Sometimes New Yorkers get a reputation for being cold and insensitive. And I can give you a recent example. I went into a restaurant. I'll give it a plug. Krupa and the owner. It was very, very quiet. It's August, Right. So a lot of people are gone. And he is sitting there. And I could you know, he's a little stressed out. And we started talking and he said, I have 30 people on staff and I have a responsibility for them. So again and again and again, I saw the responsibility in bookstores, bookstore owners, restaurants, people who understand the cost of living and feel a responsibility for their employees. And that touched me. Do you know? So, yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

You write this novel is not what I'd planned to write, but the one that forced itself upon me with characters who took on lives of their own. Who was the first one that came to you?

[Regina Porter]

Theo Harper came to me. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

When we meet Theo Harper, he's complicated, maybe not necessarily likable. Where do we find Leo in his life?

[Regina Porter]

Excuse me? Well, the book is in some ways about lifestyles. All of our lifestyles changed during COVID We're still seeing the repercussions of it. Like, some people will never, ever go back to a 9 to 5 job again or be in office full time again. And for Theo, my end to his character was basically finding out, like, what makes him tick. When I teach students, I have this concept, actually. I think Charlie d' Ambrosio sort of instilled this in me. You have to have one thing about your character that's alive and real, and his sexuality is alive and real. And so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

When you're writing a character like Theo, which he is a bit unlikable.

[Regina Porter]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

How do you write an unlikable character?

[Regina Porter]

You find things about them. Every person has an honor code. The worst person has some honor code, some line he, she, or they will not cross. And so for Theo, Theo comes from Iowa, and I think that it was important to me. He has a sense of love and pride for his home, even though it was not a good fit for him. He always wanted to go to the city. And he's really kind of protective of what people, what New Yorkers, what he deems. Because he has class issues. Do you know, he's wealthy now, but he wasn't always the sort of snobbery that is a part of New York. Do you know? And so I think he has an honor code. Like when he says, I'm from Iowa. And if you're judgmental about that, he. He'll give it back to you a little bit. So the sense of pride, but also being conflicted. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

He's in an open marriage with Darla.

[Alison Stewart]

But he keeps his racial background a secret. His black ancestry, he called it his 30%.

[Regina Porter]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Why does he choose to keep that a secret?

[Regina Porter]

Because it's always referenced as a joke. Do you know, it's always he's white presenting. He is for all intents and purposes, I guess, white. And that's how he moves through the world. And maybe it also is related. Class and race are so interlinked. And sometimes when we're talking about race, we're actually talking about class and we're talking about class, we're talking about race. And I think again, that's where there is a certain level of consciousness about him. And so I think maybe he senses. Most people say they aren't prejudiced, most people are. And even someone like his wife, he senses maybe in little things she says or does, how that might. That information might shift the relationship or marriage.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, when you're talking about Theo, you need to talk about doors. Actually the book Opens. Part one is a blurb from the encyclopedia that talks about a door and what a door is and what a door means. And then we find out pretty soon on that he likes to have sex in doorways. Yeah, but I'm saying, wondering, what do you think doors represent in the novel? Because it could be a very sort of funny thing about the dicks have sex, sex, sex in doorways. But there's a bigger picture there.

[Regina Porter]

Well, doors are a portal onto another place. They're also openings to new. To a new life or change of life or freedom. Right. So you say I'm closing one door and I'm opening another. I mean, think about all of the phrases around doors. And they mean different things in different cultures, right? Gateways. Sometimes you have symbols, dragons or lions that protect doors. So. And New York, I mean, I love doors. I don't know why, like every time I go to the main branch of the Brooklyn Public Library and I see that art deco door, I get so happy. And then the same too when I walk through the doors of the main branch on Fifth Avenue. So yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

My guest is Regina Porter, the author of the novel the Rich People have Gone Away. It's set in the pandemic when a group of New Yorkers lives were turned upside down by the disappearance of one Darla. Let's talk about Darla. She's a professional musician. She plays bassoon. She's out of work due to the lockdown. She's starting to show her pregnancy a little bit, little blonde thing. What attracts her to Theo?

[Regina Porter]

Well, he's very good looking, I say he has a little bit of a Jim Morrison Mediterranean tan going on and he's very charming. And they both get into. They rush for a taxi at the same time and he's like, okay, you can take it. You know, you go, it's raining. Or better yet, we can share. And I just think there's a sense of adventure. Do you know? And he's very honest up front. He says, basically, I like sex with boys and girls and I like having sex in doorways. So that would throw me.

[Detective Lutz]

I would be curious.

[Regina Porter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, we know why they're both in this marriage. But I'm curious, are they both into her pregnancy? What do you think?

[Regina Porter]

That's a tough one. You see, I think with pregnancy, sometimes men. And this is a general. It's a generalization. But sometimes women freak out a little after. And men before, like, I think the societal responsibilities of how am I going to. Especially.

[Detective Lutz]

If you hold to, like, patriarchal.

[Regina Porter]

Views, like, well, how am I going to keep my family, afford the family and what I'm going to do? And then sometimes women take on the responsibility of, oh, my gosh, I have this child, and I'm going to have this child for the rest of my life. So I think it. And that's. It plays out in different ways. And so I think he has some of that. A certain amount of angst about how's this child going to affect our lifestyles? Are we going to still be into one another? Am I going to be able to still do some of the things I like to do? Yeah. Lifestyle stuff. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Darla's family had a very personal and tragic connection to the events of 9 11. How do you think that's influenced Darla as an adult?

[Regina Porter]

Well, I think it certainly influenced her interest in playing the Bazoon. I looked up, like, personality traits. Curious, you know, intelligent. She's little. So that she would play an instrument like the Bazoon, which is a heavy instrument. And I think one word that stuck with me was, it's the playing the keys. It's kind of irrational. And I thought, oh, irrational. That sometimes a trait we assign society assigns to women. So I think I sort of dealt with a lot of dollars. Character through the instrument and even 911 through the instrument, you know, because music also helps us heal. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

You've picked a passage out to read. Do you want to take.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you want to try it or would you like me to read it?

[Regina Porter]

Let's see. My allergies a little. Okay, so we'll see how I do. And if I can't, then we can pick up and it can be work together in collaboration.

[Detective Lutz]

Right.

[Alison Stewart]

Good. This sounds Good.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is 28 hours.

[Regina Porter]

Is. You're going to start with It's. These are the questions.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, these are the questions.

[Regina Porter]

Okay, let's see how we do.

[Detective Lutz]

These are the questions they ask when your wife disappears. What was she wearing the last time you saw her? Was she happy? Was she sad? Did you have an argument? Did you do something to make her sad that day or yesterday or the day before? Had there been stress in the marriage.

[Regina Porter]

That you were aware of or that.

[Detective Lutz]

Flew under the radar? Did she suffer from depression or take prescription or recreational drugs? Is she an alcoholic? Are you an alcoholic or on prescription medication or recreational drugs? How much do both of you drink on average a week? No, no, no, no, no, theo answered.

[Regina Porter]

To all the above.

[Detective Lutz]

As for drinks, I enjoy a glass or two or more. A day or a week? Detective Luss asked. He was the senior detective and tasked with asking most of the questions. Depends on the day or the week. Detective Lutz drank his coffee. Mr. Harper, you have a sense of humor. Does your wife have a sense of humor?

[Regina Porter]

Yep.

[Detective Lutz]

So you share a sense of humor most of the time. Did she lose her sense of humor recently? Theo bit his lips. You mean the sense of humor that we share? Detective Lutz looked at Ramirez, who was pacing. He wanted Detective Ramirez to sit down and listen. Ramirez seemed preoccupied. So you admit at one time there was more humor in your marriage? Well, technically, we are still newlyweds. How about your careers, Detective Lux honed.

[Regina Porter]

In on another cup of coffee.

[Detective Lutz]

Our careers are somewhat on hold for now, COVID lockdown and all. Were you happy leading up to the demise of your careers?

[Regina Porter]

What demise?

[Detective Lutz]

The halt, halting delay, break, lockdown, limbo. My wife's a first rate musician. She plays the Bazoon in a Broadway orchestra. So she has an artistic temperament. She has a musical disposition. I see you are pregnant. Pregnancy leads up brings up all kinds of hormonal emotions, I guess. Is it a happy pregnancy? We are still in early pregnancy. Is your wife happy during her early pregnancy? We are happy about our early pregnancy, but she is nervous about the situation with the world. And Covid naturally, bringing an innocent into a pandemic. Are you implying she has Covid sadness? I'm not familiar with the term, but we left the city so she could feel better. So you are confirming you left the city because she might be depressed?

[Regina Porter]

Everyone is a little depressed right now.

[Alison Stewart]

That is Regina Porter reading from the novel. The rich people have gone away, so Darla goes missing. We'll leave that there, but we'll talk about the rest of the characters in the book because Covid might not have discriminated against who it infected. But some people kept working, had to stay in the city. They got sicker than others. We meet Xavier. He's a black kid, he's smart. He goes to Stuyvesant and his mom's sick. His mom's on a ventilator. He's cooped up in the building they would have been in. It's empty at this point, Half empty. Why was it important to get in the the perspective of Xavier and his family?

[Regina Porter]

Because one of the things that came to the forefront in Covid was some of the inequities in our society in a way that we can no longer deny. People of color died at a much higher rate. Doctors had to make very tough decisions.

[Detective Lutz]

About who received a ventilator.

[Regina Porter]

Like there was a shortage. So with a character like Nadine, who's a chemistry teacher and her husband works in prison and their son Xavier goes to Stuyvesant, I just wanted to capture different lifestyles and some of the inequities, but also, you know, just, I don't.

[Alison Stewart]

Know, like how it affected their lives.

[Regina Porter]

How it affected their lives. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Ruby and Katsumi are a couple. She's black, he's Japanese. They own a restaurant. Ruby was a childhood friend of Darla's. What issue do they disagree about the most? Ruby and Katsumi? Because they definitely split hairs.

[Regina Porter]

Well, I mean, Ruby and Darla are still good friends. They're childhood friends, they're besties. And Ruby takes it very hard when Darla goes missing. Although something happens to challenge their friendship, I would say Katsumi comes from an old, I think, privileged Japanese family and Ruby comes from a upper middle class family. But I think at one point, Ruby, she's idealistic and she would like to.

[Detective Lutz]

Use the hotel they share to house homeless people.

[Regina Porter]

And it's a real tense moment. I mean, because Katsumi, who's a good person, says, look, we don't have this kind of homelessness in Japan. We don't have these issues. So sometimes they have their cultural tension and there are differences about how you run a business, how much you give, how much it is an individual's responsibility to give back.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it all comes to the head at a dinner party. Everything comes to light, won't share what it is. But before I let you go, there's these little pictures in the book, and some of them seem a little bit like it's Niagara Falls and a picture of a boy back. The last one is S. Alvin Harper, 1847-1940.

[Regina Porter]

Yes. We probably don't want to talk about it too much.

[Interviewer/Host]

Would you say that your character of Theo Harper comes from him?

[Regina Porter]

I would say that Theo perhaps doesn't know how much the character comes from him. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

The name of the book is the Rich People have Gone Away. It is by Regina Porter. Regina, thank you so much for coming to the studio. We really appreciate it.

[Regina Porter]

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Interviewer/Host]

Coming up, we continue our full bio conversation with author Brad Gooch. He's the author of Radiant the Life and Line of Keith Haring. We'll learn about how Keith Haring moved to New York to study at art school, but wound up using the city as his canvas instead of the classroom. That's next after the news headlines.

[WNYC Announcer]

Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody award and a DuPont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.