All Of It – Episode Summary: "Are Videos Killing Podcasts?"

Release Date: January 17, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Nick Kwa, Podcast Critic for Vulture and New York Magazine
Duration: Approximately 24 minutes

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves into the evolving landscape of podcasting, specifically examining the rising trend of incorporating video into traditionally audio-based formats. Featuring insights from Nick Kwa, a renowned podcast critic, the discussion navigates the implications of this shift for podcasters, listeners, and the broader media ecosystem.

The Rise of Video in Podcasting

Why Are Podcasts Turning to Video?

The episode begins by highlighting the increasing integration of video elements into podcasts. This trend is largely driven by the pursuit of greater visibility and engagement across social media platforms. As Nick Kwa explains:

“It's growth. A bunch of sort of bigger publishers and bigger shows have noticed that when they add a video element or when they also distribute it, in particular over YouTube and maybe break it out into clips for social media to get a lot more, at least traction according to the metrics.”
(02:57)

Benefits of Video Integration

Video enhances discoverability on platforms like YouTube, where visuals can attract a broader audience and facilitate content sharing through clips and snippets. The Joe Rogan Experience, for example, demonstrates this with its high visibility on YouTube, amassing over 54 million views for an interview with Donald Trump.

Impact on Podcast Identity and Content

Redefining What a Podcast Is

Kwa raises critical questions about the very identity of podcasts. Traditionally viewed as audio-centric mediums, the introduction of video components challenges this perception.

“I also associate it with something that's closer to audio documentary or something that's closer to audio art, something that, you know, you can't really represent in a visual medium.”
(03:36)

The integration of video tends to favor "chatcasts" — conversational podcasts with hosts and guests — over more niche or creatively ambitious formats. This shift risks marginalizing podcasts that thrive on the purely auditory experience, such as audio documentaries or narrative-driven shows.

Aesthetic and Accessibility Concerns

The move to video introduces aesthetic pressures, particularly exacerbating gender biases. Women podcasters may feel compelled to meet certain visual standards, while male hosts often benefit from a more relaxed visual presentation.

“For many of these shows, this video element or visual element of media means that only a certain kind of look, a person who looks a certain way shall, can benefit from being on screen.”
(08:25)

Listener Perspectives and Reactions

Mixed Reactions from the Audience

Listeners express varying opinions on the shift to video podcasts. Some appreciate the enhanced engagement, while others prefer the simplicity and flexibility of audio-only formats.

Listener Stephanie from Brooklyn shares her frustration:

“They recently started and switched to video and they're now on YouTube. And I'm completely refusing to listen to the video and to watch the video because I love listening to it. For me, it's like the place that I zone out and I like being able to picture things.”
(17:35)

This sentiment underscores a segment of the audience that values podcasts for their portability and the ability to consume content without being tethered to a screen.

Challenges Faced by Podcasters

Platform Dependency Risks

Kwa points out that relying heavily on platforms like YouTube can make podcasters vulnerable to the platform's changing algorithms and policies. This dependency contrasts with the traditional strength of podcasts in being platform-agnostic.

“It just means that podcasters as a whole is more dependent on one platform, in this case YouTube.”
(07:03)

Barrier to Entry for New Podcasters

The shift towards video can create higher entry barriers for new podcasters who may lack the resources or desire to produce video content, potentially stifling diversity and innovation within the medium.

Future of Podcasting

Sustainability of Audio-First Podcasts

Despite the growing trend, Nick Kwa remains hopeful for the persistence of audio-first podcasts, emphasizing that there's still a strong desire for non-visual content. However, he acknowledges that finding and retaining an audience may become more challenging.

“I don't think it'll happen and I just think it'll just be much harder for audio only podcasts to exist and to find audiences.”
(10:25)

Adaptation and Evolution

Kwa suggests that the podcasting ecosystem must evolve to accommodate various formats, ensuring that audio-centric podcasts continue to thrive alongside their video-enhanced counterparts.

“As long as the desires are there, things can change.”
(23:00)

Special Highlights

Listener Recommendations and Clips

Throughout the episode, listeners contribute their favorite podcasts and share clips from recommended shows like Hearing Things and Question Everything. These segments illustrate the diversity of the podcasting world and the personal connections listeners have with their chosen content.

Tribute to "Shortcuts"

A heartfelt tribute is paid to the BBC's Shortcuts, a beloved podcast series ending its run. Kwa reflects on its impact:

“It's always, always surprising and always kind of this precious little gem. And I think as the BBC is cutting it, due to larger things going on at the organization, we're losing a space to find not just new forms of audio, but also new talent.”
(20:27)

Additionally, the episode celebrates local talent with a mention of producer Luke Green's documentary short featured on Shortcuts, highlighting the interconnectedness of the podcast community.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the delicate balance between embracing new media trends and preserving the core essence of podcasting. While video integration offers pathways to growth and increased engagement, it also introduces challenges that could reshape the medium's landscape. Nick Kwa remains optimistic, believing that the inherent demand for diverse podcast formats will drive the evolution of podcasting, ensuring that both audio and video-centric shows find their place in the future.

“The desire and the want is there, and the hunger for something new is always there. And so the system will reward and support one thing. But at some point, the system has to change.”
(23:00)

Notable Quotes

• Nick Kwa on Growth through Video:
  “It's growth. A bunch of sort of bigger publishers and bigger shows have noticed that when they add a video element or when they also distribute it, in particular over YouTube and maybe break it out into clips for social media to get a lot more, at least traction according to the metrics.”
  (02:57)

• Nick Kwa on Podcast Identity:
  “What exactly is a podcast? Right. So for me, at least, I associate a lot of podcasts with, in part, these chatcasts... something that's closer to audio documentary or something that's closer to audio art, something that, you know, you can't really represent in a visual medium.”
  (03:36)

• Listener Stephanie's Preference for Audio-Only:
  “I'm completely refusing to listen to the video and to watch the video because I love listening to it.”
  (17:35)

• Nick Kwa on Platform Dependency:
  “It just means that podcasters as a whole is more dependent on one platform, in this case YouTube.”
  (07:03)

• Nick Kwa on the Future of Audio Podcasts:
  “I don't think it'll happen and I just think it'll just be much harder for audio only podcasts to exist and to find audiences.”
  (10:25)

• Nick Kwa's Hope for Podcasting:
  “As long as the desires are there, things can change.”
  (23:00)

Final Thoughts

All Of It offers a comprehensive exploration of the shifting dynamics within the podcasting world. By juxtaposing industry analysis with listener experiences, the episode provides a nuanced understanding of how video is reshaping podcast identities, accessibility, and sustainability. As the medium continues to evolve, the insights shared by Alison Stewart and Nick Kwa serve as a valuable guide for creators and consumers navigating the future of podcasting.