← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Artist Wangari Mathenge's New Show
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Artist Wangari Mathenge's New Show
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This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. It is gallery season in New York and there are shows opening up almost every day. Yesterday we talked about the new Arshiel Gorky show at Hauser and Wirth. Tomorrow we will speak with artist Gina Beavers, who has a show at Marianne Boesky Gallery. Today we are speaking to an artist whose life is very different from five years ago. Wangari Mathenge got her JD from Georgetown, got a job, and in her mid-40s she made a change. She was going to be an artist. She went to school and got an MFA at the Painting and Drawing at the School of Art at the Art Institutes of Chicago. It's been nonstop since. She's had solo shows in London, Milan, Los Angeles, and now in New York City. Muthara McGengi joins us now from Nicola Vassal Gallery where her show opens up to today. Wonthari, nice to meet you.
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Thanks for having me. Nice to meet you too.
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C
You are originally from Kenya, Way back when. What did you want to be when you grew up?
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B
I don't think I wanted to be anything. I never thought of what I wanted to be, to be honest. When I was really young, I was introduced to just a lot of creative things. I was painting, playing music really badly, but you know, the piano, the recorder. So I was introduced and also theater. So I was introduced to a lot of creative things, but as a hobby. My parents, I think, always envisioned that I would be a lawyer. So from early on they kept on telling me that I was really good at arguments and that I would be a fantastic lawyer.
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Well, where did art enter your life as a child?
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As a kid actually, like from primary school or even kindergarten, so like preschool. And I think we always had art classes. And then my mother I think noticed that I was really interested in painting, so she enrolled me in after school classes. So even I Think as early as 6 and 7, I was taking extra classes in painting. So, yeah, yeah.
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C
When you said your parents when you were a kid, they thought, oh, she'll be a lawyer. She'll be great. Did you ever think as a young girl that people could be artists for a living?
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B
No, absolutely not. And I think this is because in Kenya, while we have a lot of art and culture, we probably didn't, as, you know, take it as a very serious endeavor when I was growing up. So we're talking about in the 80s and even probably like early 90s. So we have this fantastic museum, but it had more relics than anything. So you didn't really see contemporary art. So I thought art is for. I mean, we guess we create it now, but it's really a thing that's appreciated, like sort of in the future. So whatever we're making in contemporaneously doesn't have the import that, you know, it's just not important until, you know, we're dead. So, you know, that being the case, I never thought that people, you know, took it as a primary endeavor, a way of expressing themselves and also making a living through it. So that never crossed my mind. And I always thought I would do something else, you know, medicine, law, but then have this hobby because I really enjoyed painting.
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My guest is Mangari Mithenge. Bedimmed Boundaries between Wakefulness and Sleep is the name of her exhibit. It's opening today at the Nicola vassal gallery at 18th street and 10th Avenue.
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B
So let's go.
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You decide to go traditional mode. You went to Howard, onto Georgetown, deciding on a legal career. Why the law?
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B
Brainwashing. Like I said, I honestly, there's no real. There's no other way to explain it. I just grew up hearing that you would be a great lawyer. And I was convinced that that was the path because prior to that, I have an mba, so I was working in finance, and I spent three years working in finance and realized pretty quickly that I was just not that interested in it. And then I remembered, okay, my parents talked about this law thing, so let me, you know, take a stab at it. And. And I enjoyed the study of law and probably initially the practice of it. But then shortly after, I started to realize that that was entity that I had restless soul. And I think some, you know, somewhere along that journey is when I began to realize that I need an outlet. And so my return to art and to painting and sort of the investigation of it was through just taking art classes in community colleges with the hope that it would balance out the stress that I felt in this other world, you know, practicing law, but also not approaching it with this idea that I would become a full time, you know, practicing artist.
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Well, what were your paintings like when you were at law school and when you became a lawyer?
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They were abstract. I was still trying to feel my way around, sort of reentering, learning how to paint because I had stopped painting for over a decade, so I was just experimenting with different styles. I was absolutely not a figurative painter, which is what I do now mostly. And learning sort of the shift between abstraction and figuration happened in a very compelled way. I was in a class that was a figurative class, and they said, you have to paint yourself. And I was like, oh, no, I don't want to do this. But, you know, I was in a class. And then I think after a couple of sessions, I started to realize that there was this beauty in observation. And then essentially I started learning more about myself. I was looking at myself and saying, wow, I did not know this about myself. First, it was just. Just very superficial, the physical. But then I think it also helped me work into my inner self. So it was therapeutic in that way, just looking at myself.
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I want to go back. You said you hadn't painted for a decade or you hadn't really been involved in art for a decade. What did that feel like?
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It felt normal because I was very focused on. On law. And that's where, you know, there was just no time. I didn't even think that there was something missing. And especially in the early stages, when you're learning and you have this learning curve, it just takes up all your time. Now. The thing is, once you've learned everything and you're comfortable with, you know, with what you're doing, that's when you create space in your mind and in your life to think, am I content? That's when you start thinking about the future and, oh, okay, so this is what I'm going to be doing on a daily. Is this sustainable the way I feel? So. So initially, yes, in that decade when I wasn't making art, I wasn't. I don't think I missed it. I was very focused and busy with learning, with learning law and like, becoming good at it. So it's only when it re entered my life, is when it needed to, because it sort of just called upon me because I needed to find something else to balance myself out.
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Wangari, you went to Boston, you got a job with a big firm, but at one point you just. You weren't really feeling it. What do you remember about deciding, I think I'm going to go for an art degree.
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That was gosh. So the art degree was contemplated over a period of like 10 years. And this is. So I started taking while I was practicing law, I was taking art classes in, in community colleges. And so it would just be the one off art class that you sign up for. It's not taking too much of your time. I started and at some point it was all practical and then I decided it's time to delve into the theories to go into some art history. Art history class is what essentially drove me into really realizing how important this way of expression is and that yes, I can afford more time in my life for it. And then it was my art history teacher who encouraged me to pursue an MFA and also just to consider art being a full time practice. And so then. So that's really. It took me 10 years from when I first started thinking of enrolling and then finally enrolling into the mfa. And obviously this is because of the cost implications as well, because they are pretty expensive.
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What did you learn from attending art school that you didn't know before and that has proven useful to you?
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So many things. But I think the most important thing for me, well, there's two important things. One was being able to critique art, to be able to look at what I was making and have a really strong and really solid understanding of why I am making this. Because before I was just all over the place painting all sorts of things that. And I. But I really didn't understand why am I gravitating to it. So it's not necessarily that it changed what I was painting, but I was able to be critical and understand why I was doing it. The other thing that I feel is that it helped me have the confidence to make whatever I wanted to make because. And I think this is still related to the fact that I can explain to myself because I am my audience when I'm making my paintings. I was able to explain to myself why I am making a certain painting, why I'm making certain compositional choices, why I'm using certain media. And that gave me the confidence to share my work. While earlier on I did not, I didn't like, I didn't want to share my work with the world because I wasn't confident about what I was trying to say. Art school and being surrounded by other students who I was able to have conversations with and also the teachers helped me be able to be confident to share my work with the world and happy to do so.
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My guest is Wangari Mathenge. Her new exhibit is called Be Dimmed Boundaries Between Wakefulness and Sleep. It opens today at the Nakula vassal gallery at 18th street and 10th Avenue. We'll hear more about the exhibit after the break. This is all of it. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Steward. My guest is Wangari Mathenge. She has a new show opening today at the Nicole Vassall Gallery. It's titled Be Dimmed Boundaries between Wakefulness and Sleep. Wangari, this work is about the moment when you're either awake or asleep, or asleep or awake. Where did this idea come from?
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This idea came from me having conversations with friends and. And also my partner. And we were talking about our dreams, and I realized that I have a certain kind of dream state that is not that common. And this is the. The dream state that happens as you're falling, falling to sleep, and also as you're just about to awake, awaken. And I thought, so I've had these obviously all my life. But I thought that this was a common occurrence across the board, that we all have these three different types of dream states. So there's this. The most common one is the REM dream state. So in the middle of sleep, you're in deep sleep. And then we have these dreams which either recur or not, but some people remember them, some people don't. But I think that's the more common dream state that people talk about. But then I have these experiences where I am fully aware that I'm awake, but I am dreaming. And it's usually as I'm about to fall asleep or as I'm waking up, I also have these dreams when I'm waking up awake and walking. And so it was while I was having these conversations that I realized, wait a minute, this is very unique. And I didn't even know what they were called. And so I started researching and found, okay, so this dream state is called hypnagogia. And that's the dream state as you're falling asleep. And the one that you're waking up, which is even rarer, is called hypnopompia. And I experienced both of them, in fact, like with. With my hypnopompic dreams. Those are the usual ones which I fully probably wake up when maybe I've gone to the bathroom. And I literally have to tell myself, wake up now. You know, be done with this dream.
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So I understood you took video of yourself. Where did you record yourself? How long did you record Yourself.
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So I'm still recording myself. And I have video set up in my bedroom and also in my living room. So when I decided to embark upon this project, I decided to have a camera that is on, you know, nighttime all the time, and it records my movements. And because I don't have these dreams, like, all the time, on the day that I experience. Experience their dream, I. I record it, and then I extract the footage of. Of that session. And the works in the show today are, you know, actually show specific moments when I had these hypnagogic or hypnopompic dreams.
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We also kept a journal. Aside from your video, what did the diary reveal to you?
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B
It revealed. I mean, so the journal was, like, me recounting exactly what happened in that dream. And so I would wait, you know, I'd make sure that I record it very contemporaneously so that I don't miss any detail of what happened in that dream. And so initially, my vision for this show was I was going to have paintings that describe these dreams. And. And then it changed. And I decided that I think it would be more interesting to just show the state at which I was experiencing, having these experiences. But I also have a video presentation which then sort of complements the paintings. And in the video presentation, I do allow the viewer to step into what was going on when I was having these experiences. So you get to see it through. It's a video presentation which is an animation first.
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We get to see the beautiful work you did. They're self portraits. The first piece, I believe, is called Tightrope. And it's the first piece we see when we walk in the door. You look very cozy and sort of restful. Can you describe it for us?
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B
Yeah, it's this painting where I am, you know, sitting on this sort of. It's kind of a daybed, and I have my duvet, and I was actually watching tv, fell asleep on that specific session. And so. But the viewpoint is me with this duvet that is just all over me. And it's sort of a chartreuse color, the entire painting. And yeah, but from far, I kind of look like I'm asleep. But then if you look closely, the eyes are open, slightly open.
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Why did you want this to be the first piece that people receive?
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B
Now, I think these are mainly stylistic choices in terms of how you present work in a gallery setting, because you don't really have the choice of how the walls are and what looks good where given the wall. So when you walk in, there is this Almost between chartreuse and mustard wall. And that painting complemented that wall really well. And that is really the reason why it is there like it could have been anywhere else. Because I think all the paintings, when you walk into the space really thematically are, you know, in line. But that painting really looked good because that's the only wall that actually has this separate, very, very different color from the, from the rest of the treatment of the gallery. So I think that's specifically why that landed there.
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In a few of the pictures, there's a little stuffed animal that you sleep with. What does that mean to you?
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B
So that stuffed animal has been with me for decades. And it started off as a sort of this sign. So when I, when I, when I. So I have these, I make portraits or just figurative work generally of people around me. But whenever I appeared in a painting, I said, I will make sure that there is a sign that I am, that I'm in that. That's me reflected in this painting. And it wasn't anything that I thought too deeply about. It just happened that they started appearing anytime that I was in a painting. Then my stuffed animals would appear. And this show is entirely about me. And so when I was making this show, I thought they need to appear in this show because again, it is this, it is this nod to Wangari Mathenge is here in these paintings.
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C
One picture story shows you kind of in the middle of sleep. Your foot's like almost touching the ground. But I notice over on the right hand side, there's sort of clocks on the wall. It's sort of in between, like, I like your point, wakefulness and sleep. Why did you decide what was real and what was sort of imaginary? For the pictures?
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Yeah. So all of these paintings are in, you know, in lived in environments. So there's a lot of stuff around it. Initially, when I first started drawing, sketching and deciding what was going to go into the painting, it was the environment as it currently is. I wanted. So in the past, a lot of my paintings do have this built in environment that I think mainly because a lot of my paintings in the past have been talking about diasporic material culture. How does this space look like? Where this being who has relocated themselves, what does this space look like? And the commentary is a little bit more than just the individual in the space. It's also about the environment. While this, I wanted the viewer to delve into this inner space that this work is talking about being in this hypnagogic or hypnopompic. State. And so I began to realize that I need to reduce the sort of visual play that it would have if you had to contemplate all, all the things that were showing up. Clocks are important because for me that's, I grapple. I, I have this low grades insomnia and I've had it for a really long time. And one of the things that you suffer with is looking at the clock and realizing that you only slept 10 minutes. Yeah. And, and you know, and morning is nowhere to be found, but you know, you're awake. And so clocks hold that meaning. And so that's why the paintings, there's more of the focus on the clocks and the individual and so that we delve into the psychological aspect of what's going on as opposed to being distracted by the environments.
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The name of the show is Bedimmed Boundaries between Wakefulness and Sleep. It opens today and it runs through Oct. 19 at the Nicola Vassal Gallery at 18th street and 10th Avenue. Artist Wangari Mathenge thank you so much for spending time with us.
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Thank you for having me. It was fantastic spending.
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