Author Laila Lalami Previews This Month's 'Get Lit' Book

Summary

All Of It: Author Laila Lalami Previews This Month's 'Get Lit' Book

Host: Alison Stewart | Release Date: May 1, 2025 | WNYC

---

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, listeners are treated to an insightful conversation with acclaimed author Laila Lalami. The discussion centers around her latest novel, "The Dream Hotel", which serves as the April pick for the Get Lit Book Club. Scheduled for an event on May 6th at the New York Public Library (NYPL), this episode delves deep into the themes of surveillance, privacy, and the human condition in a technologically advanced society.

Book Overview: "The Dream Hotel"

"The Dream Hotel" is Lalami's sixth novel and has already garnered significant attention, positioning her as a Pulitzer Prize finalist. The story follows Sarah Hussain, a museum archivist who becomes entangled in a web of surveillance and suspicion. While returning from a work trip in London, Sarah is detained by authorities at the airport due to her Moroccan descent and flagged for having potential homicidal thoughts about her husband. This incident leads her to be held at the mysterious Dream Hotel, a retention center designed to monitor individuals based on their "risk scores."

Inspiration Behind "The Dream Hotel"

At [02:07], Lalami shares the personal experience that inspired her novel:

Laila Lalami [02:07]: "I reached for my phone first thing to look at the time and I saw a Google notification that said if you leave right now you will make it to the name of my Yoga Studio at 7:28. ... That moment was kind of just sort of a wake up call. It was very disturbing."

This incident highlighted the pervasive nature of data collection and the invisible surveillance that underscores modern life. Lalami reflects on how seamless and unnoticed these data practices have become, posing profound questions about privacy and autonomy.

Exploring Sarah Hussain's Journey

Alison Stewart delves into the protagonist's experiences:

Alison Stewart [03:53]: "She's been pulled aside because her last name is Hussein, and ... she realizes that universal does not mean neutral."

Lalami elaborates on Sarah's background, explaining that despite her efforts to assimilate—such as changing her last name to avoid prejudice—she still faces systemic bias:

Laila Lalami [08:13]: "Sarah is an American citizen, so her parents are from Morocco, and her father ... decided to simplify his name, which is Eitel Hussein, and made it Hussein just to make it easier on himself."

Sarah's detainment at the retention center exposes the flaws in a supposedly unbiased surveillance system, revealing how algorithmic profiling can perpetuate racial and cultural biases.

Excerpt Reading: The Reality of Surveillance

At [05:26], Lalami reads an excerpt from her book, painting a vivid picture of Sarah's internal conflict and the broader societal implications:

Laila Lalami [05:26]: "Sarah feels a visceral fear every time she is in an airport. ... a new era of digital policing had begun, and young Sarah welcomed, made transiting through airports fast and straightforward. Until today, it seemed."

This passage underscores the psychological toll of constant surveillance and the illusion of safety it provides.

The Near-Future Setting and Its Significance

When asked why she chose a near-future setting, Lalami provides a comprehensive rationale:

Laila Lalami [11:20]: "I have long-standing concerns about the technological surveillance system that we all are living under, ... it really threatens everything. ... These are things that I think these are very, very big ideas. They go to the heart of what it means to be human in the 21st century."

By situating the novel in the near future, Lalami amplifies the relevance and urgency of her themes, allowing readers to reflect on current trends extrapolated into a speculative scenario.

Building Community Through "The Dream Hotel"

As Sarah adapts to life in the retention center, she forms relationships that mirror the complexities of societal interactions:

Laila Lalami [09:55]: "...she has developed friendships with some of them, she has developed relationships with some of them. ... she basically discovers a community that in a way is separate from the rest of society, but also reflects that society as well."

This dynamic explores how isolation and community coalesce under the pressures of surveillance, highlighting the innate human need for connection even in restrictive environments.

Interactive Elements and Personal Connections

Alison inquires about hidden elements or "Easter eggs" within the novel, to which Lalami playfully defers:

Laila Lalami [13:11]: "Ask me again when we meet in person and I'll be sure to have an answer for you."

This exchange hints at deeper layers within the narrative, encouraging readers to engage actively with the text.

Conclusion and Event Details

As the conversation wraps up, Alison Stewart emphasizes the community aspect of the event:

Alison Stewart [13:24]: "We are talking about the Dream Hotel. We can't wait to talk to you."

Listeners are invited to join the Get Lit Book Club event on May 6th, featuring a special musical performance by Imal Ganawa, a New York-based Moroccan band. An E-copy of "The Dream Hotel" is available through the New York Public Library, ensuring accessibility for all interested participants.

Key Takeaways

• Surveillance and Privacy: "The Dream Hotel" explores the intrusive nature of modern surveillance and its impact on personal freedoms and societal trust.

• Cultural Identity and Bias: Through Sarah Hussain's experience, the novel sheds light on the persistent biases that individuals from marginalized backgrounds face, even in supposedly neutral systems.

• Human Connection: The retention center serves as a microcosm for examining how communities form and interact under external pressures, reflecting broader societal dynamics.

• Technological Ethics: Lalami raises critical questions about the ethical implications of data collection and the partnership between big tech and government entities.

Notable Quotes

• Laila Lalami [02:07]: "I think we all know that our devices collect a lot of data about us, but that data collection is, by design, very seamless and nearly invisible."

• Alison Stewart [07:25]: "I read this on a plane coming back from Morocco, and I got ... I hope you didn't get pulled aside."

• Laila Lalami [11:20]: "These are things that I think these are very, very big ideas. They go to the heart of what it means to be human in the 21st century."

---

Join the Conversation: Don’t miss the opportunity to engage with Laila Lalami and fellow book enthusiasts on May 6th. Secure your copy of "The Dream Hotel" through the New York Public Library and be part of a compelling discussion that bridges literature, culture, and the pressing issues of our time.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Alison Stewart]

You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The Get Lit Book Club event for our April pick is less than a week away. Next Tuesday, May 6th I will be in conversation with author Leila Lalamy. We'll discuss her new book the Dream Hotel at 6pm at our partner's place, the NYPL. The book follows Sarah Hussain. She's a museum archivist on her way back from a work trip in London. At the airport she is pulled into a room by authorities as a woman of Moroccan descent. It's not the first time she's been made to feel singled out, especially at the airport, but this time it's different. The authorities inform her that she is being questioned because she is flagged for having possible murderous thoughts about her husband. Yup, they monitor her dreams set in the not so distant future. People's thoughts and dreams have as much weight as their actions. Sara is retained for a 21 day hold which then goes on and on. The Dream Hotel is Layla's six book. She's a Pulitzer Prize finalist and we're excited to speak with her next week with a special musical performance from the New York based Moroccan band Imal Ganawa. You still have time to grab a copy and read it before our event next Tuesday, May 6th. It is a fast read. Here's a little incentive. Here's a preview of the book with Laila Lalamy. I heard you got the idea for this book from a Google alert that appeared on your phone. What happened?

[Leila Lalami]

Yes, this happened in 2014. I was struggling to get out of bed and I reached for my phone first thing to look at the time and I saw a Google notification that said if you leave right now you will make it to the name of my Yoga Studio at 7:28. And of course I had never told Google what day of the week or what time of day or even that I went to yoga. But over time obviously the company had followed my movements and knew that every Tuesday and every Thursday I went to a location that its software said was a yoga studio. And I guess quite helpfully that morning had decided to remind me that I hadn't left yet, that I was running late. And you know, I was understandably Disturbed by this, it felt like a rare peek through the curtain of surveillance. I think we all know that our devices collect a lot of data about us, but that data collection is, by design, very seamless and nearly invisible. And so that moment was kind of just sort of a wake up call. It was very disturbing. And I remember I turned to my husband and I said, you know, pretty soon the only privacy any of us will have left will be in our dreams. And of course, being a novelist, I thought, well, wait, what if someday the data collection manages to penetrate dreams? What would happen then?

[Alison Stewart]

Hence, the Dream Hotel, your book. Let's get in touch with our protagonist. What is going on with Sarah when we meet her at the airport?

[Leila Lalami]

Well, Sarah's basically somebody whose relationship with technology mirrors my own and probably yours as well. She's somebody who sort of made her peace with it. She feels like she uses these tools the way that we all use them. She's a museum archivist. She works for the Getty Museum. And every year she goes to the same conference. And in this year, she just had twins not Too long ago, 13 months before the story starts, she's very eager to be reunited with them and with her husband. After a five day trip to London for this conference, as she's returning home and going through customs, she is pulled aside because the algorithm of the Risk Assessment Agency has decided that she has a very high likelihood of committing a violent crime. And so she is pulled aside and she is transferred to what is called a retention center, not a detention center, but a retention center. And she is supposed to be held there for 21 days, but of course, at the start of the story, we realized that she has been there for far longer than that initial 21 day.

[Alison Stewart]

Hold, and she already has a bit of nervousness. Not nervousness, but something in her soul about traveling. I'm gonna ask you to read a little bit from the book and set this little excerpt up for us.

[Leila Lalami]

Sure. Another time, when they were returning from their yearly trip to Morocco, they were held just long enough at Dalys International to miss their cross country flight home, then released without explanation. The delay meant that her father couldn't attend the ceremony at which he and three of his Caltech colleagues were to be honored for their work on a new generation of Mars rovers. What made these experiences difficult wasn't that they never turned up anything and were a waste of time for all parties involved, but the gnawing feeling that her family's ability to go about their business was entirely at the discretion of uniformed officers. Though she was only a child. Sara felt a visceral fear every time she was in an airport. But once the government deployed Scout at security checkpoints, the hassle disappeared. Sara was a sophomore in high school by then, and she noticed the difference during her soccer team's training trip to Mexico. All she had to do was present herself to Scout, and the AI instantly accessed her passenger identification, biometric information, and criminal records. The light turned green and she was clear through the checkpoint. No more long lines, no more questions. A new era of digital policing had begun, and young Sarah, for one, welcomed, made transiting through airports fast and straightforward. Until today, it seemed.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Leila Lalami reading from the Dream Hotel. Can I tell you, I read this on a plane coming back from Morocco, and I got.

[Leila Lalami]

I hope you didn't get pulled aside.

[Alison Stewart]

I didn't, but I had a thought. Let me tell you.

[Leila Lalami]

Yes, yes. I think the novel does tap into those fears that many people have in going through airports. Now, of course, for me, given that I'm from Morocco and I have had these experiences of being pulled into secondary and being asked questions. So it was an anxiety that I was able to tap into for this scene.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, it's interesting. Sarah, she's experienced, she's tried to assimilate somewhat. She changed her last name. But at this point, and she's in, she's been pulled aside by authorities, she gets mad, and she accuses the guard of profiling her. I'm so curious. Why does she get mad? Why does she let the guard get to her?

[Leila Lalami]

Well, I think so. Sarah is a. Is an American citizen, so her parents are from Morocco, and her father, when he naturalized as a citizen, decided to simplify his name, which is Eitel Hussein, and made it Hussein just to make it easier on himself. So she has inherited that sort of ease. And so she thinks as she's going through this interview with the officer, she feels that she has been patient. She has answered all of his questions. It has been an hour. There is nothing in her record to suggest that she should be held back. And so she starts to lose her temperature. In other words, her big sort of flaw in this book is that she assumed that surveillance was universal, but she didn't realize that universal does not mean neutral. She thought that because she had done nothing wrong and because she's answered all their questions forthrightly, that that meant that she could just go on about her day. And so it's at that point that she realizes that they are pulling her aside because her last name is Hussein, and So she loses her temper. And even though it is only that moment, it's very short. And she quickly tries to make up for it. She does then attract their attention, and then they decide they really are going to look very closely at her. And at her risk score, what does she discover?

[Alison Stewart]

Without giving too much away, what does she discover about these retention centers which she's sent to for at first, 21 days?

[Leila Lalami]

Yes. So the idea is that there is a national, it's a government, federal level agency, and it basically assigns a crime risk score to each individual. Now, because Sarah has been pulled aside because of her dreams, which suggests that she's going to commit a crime, she is sent to a retention center. And when she arrives, she obviously feels herself to be innocent of this future crime. And so she doesn't really feel that she is the same as everybody else in that facility who are also there for suspected crimes. And so she holds herself a little bit apart from them. And as the novel opens, we see that it's been some time now, and so she has developed friendships with some of them, she has developed relationships with some of them. She's pretty close with her roommate, for example. And so she basically discovers a community that in a way is separate from the rest of society, but also reflects that society as well.

[Alison Stewart]

This is set in the near future and it cracked me up because you talked about the aging playwright, Lynn. Lynn Nottage.

[Leila Lalami]

Hi, Lynn. If you're listening, she's wonderful and I'm a fan and I want her to know that in the book she continues to produce the most wonderful plays.

[Alison Stewart]

Why did you set it in the near future?

[Leila Lalami]

It is unusual, isn't it? Because my previous novel or some of my previous work had been historical and contemporary. I think I was just enamored with the idea and with the character. I have had long standing concerns about the technological surveillance system that we all are living under, all of us. And I don't just mean in the United states, but globally, 70% of the world's population own smartphones. And I feel that this, this relationship between big tech companies and the government is an unholy alliance. And it's, it really threatens everything. Not just about our democratic governance and, and, you know, everything you can name, but also just about our sense of selves, who we are. We know from research that being subjected to surveillance modifies people's behavior. People begin to change their behaviors because they're afraid of attracting the attention of the people surveilling them. Since we are continually under technological surveillance, we are in a sense conforming and modifying our behaviors in order not to attract attention. These are things that I think these are very, very big ideas. They go to the heart of what it means to be human in the 21st century. And it was something that I felt that a novel, a speculative novel would be just the perfect canvas for exploring it.

[Alison Stewart]

We ask all of our authors, is there an Easter egg or something in the book that you would really like our readers to look out for?

[Leila Lalami]

Oh, well, I think you mentioned the one about Lynn Nottage. Let me just think. That is a great question. Well, you know, ask me again when we meet in person and I'll be sure to have an answer for you.

[Alison Stewart]

That's a deal. My guest has been author Leila Lalamy. We are talking about the Dream Hotel. We can't wait to talk to you.

[Leila Lalami]

Likewise. Thanks so much for having me, New Yorkers.

[Alison Stewart]

You can get an E copy of the Dream Hotel thanks to our partners at the New York Public library. Go to wnyc.org get lit and then check and join us on May 6th.

[Progressive Insurance]

Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody Award and a Dupont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship wnyc. Org.